Navigating Grief and Grit in The Last of Us Ep. 2 x 3 and Andor season 2 Eps. 1-3

>> Sarah : Foreign Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm m. Your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight, Will?

>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. Hope you're doing well this evening after we figured out when we're going to watch Thunderbolts.

>> Sarah : Yep. Figured it out. There will be a special recording next Thursday.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Where we will share our thoughts and, and it will be spoilers.

>> Will: There will be spoilers. There will be spoilers.

>> Sarah : It will be spoiled. Okay, people. because we are, we are watching it and hopefully this time Will actually watches it, unlike when he hung me out to dry with the joke or two.

>> Will: Hey, I will watch this one. Yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : And I know, I mean, you were, you were dealing with a, A minor natural. Natural disaster at the time. I mean.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, just, just a little, just a little thing. But, yeah, but definitely, we'll. We'll watch Thunderbolts this weekend and looking forward to talking with it about it with you about that film and know we've got Last of Us and, Andor. But you know, content this month is like, crazy. I mean, it's. Yeah, I mean, we, we, we, we. We were worried about all this great stuff, like, happening all at once and here it is. So, yeah, the life of podcasters, everyone.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: At least we know. At least we have some sanity and not trying to like, cover andor the same week that airs. So I'm glad for just the enjoyment factor as well as just, just letting, you know, letting. Letting the thoughts marinate a little bit. I'm glad we're doing it like we're doing it. Which is still being one week delayed.

>> Sarah : Yeah. so I did, despite everything, manage to squeeze in the final season of, you on, Netflix. And I, I love how you know me so well. So the only reason. And, and I did not start it until like, I watched maybe almost the first episode of the new season, right before I went to bed on Saturday night. So the only reason why I got through the next nine episodes is because I, I started fast forwarding a lot. The dialogue was so bad, so bad. It was cringeworthy. Like, like I, I said it last season, this show should have ended with season three. This show. this is. And, and this is even more disappointing than season three. I m. Am so glad they released all the episodes at once so we could, like, for those of us who were still somewhat on board and just curious about how it all worked out. Well, it under. It works out in the Most underwhelming way ever. It's ridiculous, it's nonsensical. And it just. I don't know, it just felt like the writers now. Hm. I don't know if I can say this because technically I've never watched the first season. I got on board with second season, but I feel like, because it originally aired on Lifetime, I feel like the writers went back to the beats of season one, which I'm just like, why would you do that? Why would you go back there when season one, the ratings were so low? You got Bunted from Lifetime only for Netflix to pick you up and for you to have like a very good season two, season three. And I don't know, it just. It just became way too much, way, way too ridiculous. And anyway, I just had to get that off my chest that, like, yeah, I watched it. I probably watched 50 to 60% of it because, like, the last episode I was just like, boom. Okay, cha cha. Okay, okay. What happens at the very end? Because I don't need to go through all this. I don't care. I don't care. Does he die? Does he go to jail? Does, like, does he get a happily ever after even though he's a piece of. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you. No, you can take it down. We're. We're moving.

>> Will: Okay, I'll take it down. We're moving on. Okay, Okay.

>> Sarah : I mean, I'm. I'm. I'm a bit jealous because I know you watch Sinners this weekend and there is a review up about Sinners that you and your wife did, which was so cute.

>> Will: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Well, it's funny because, I mean, she's usually not a big movie watcher. I mean, she likes, you know, we have our shows we like to watch and stuff. But I mean, she was super pumped about it. We got out of the theater on, Saturday night, and then Sunday morning she was like, well, you know, she's just had like, just massive. Just thoughts of just this is dropped. And if you've seen the movie, go check out our, Our review. Because really, Sinners is one of those films. It's kind of hard that other than just the sort of general Thai level discussion developed. yes, you know, Michael B. Jordan, Place twins. Yes. There is a vampire component to the film, but it's not exactly a van. It's. Yes, it's a, it's a. It's a movie with, with vampires in it. But there's just so many things that are deeper about it. So if you haven't seen it, go see it clearly people, word of mouth is definitely like spreading because I think it's. It only had like a, like a 6% drop all from the first weekend to the second weekend which like in these times, it's pretty amazing. Ah. That that you know, that the box office did not drop off. And so I mean it even you know, with the re release of the Revenge of the Sith and also the new release of the Accountant too. I mean it did better than both films. So so yeah, it's definitely something. You should definitely go see it if you haven't yet. If you have seen it, go check out our review. We have some thoughts. but yeah, when I left the theater, the first thing I turned to Charlie, I said I want to see this again. It was just so much that was going on, good things that were going on with that film. And it's one of those. Clearly one of these films that like has something to say.

>> Will: And, and, and it's enjoyable and like I said, can't recommend it enough. So go, go check it out even. I know you're not a big vampire horror film fan, Sarah, but I.

>> Sarah : Think how, how much horror is it? Like there's a difference between a vampire movie and a horror movie.

>> Will: Yeah. So yeah, it's not like a slasher film or anything like that. And as far as the violence, that's the, the you know, they're jump scares and stuff.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

>> Will: But, yeah, but it's, I mean, you know, there's probably comparable jump scares in like the Last of Us that we talked about. I mean so. Yeah, so it's, it's like that level.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Okay. Okay. That, that's what I would expect based on everything that I'm hearing about. definitely interest is peak. However, I feel like I've seen a good 25% of the movie on TikTok every time. There's like people release so many clips about it that, that I've definitely seen the ending and I don't now granted it's taken out of context so I have no idea.

>> Will: But that's why you need to see it. Yeah. I'm not going to say anything about the mid credit but you definitely. Yeah, just go see it. And I do want to. If you do, I do want to hear your thoughts about it.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. yeah. You know that I'm gonna pull you and the Bear Season two. Like it'll take me until this comes out.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah, okay. Okay. As long as. As long as, you know, like, you might have to sit on that for a while.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, that's. That's fine. That's fine.

>> Sarah : All right. All, Right, well, that leads us to the last of, us. Season two, Episode three, the Path. After Dina shares crucial intel, Ellie prepares a petition to. Presents a petition to the town council. wow, this is the worst written IMDb synopsis yet. Because then it's just a new sentence. Near Seattle, a religious group flees at war. Okay, like, that's, like, this is. What is this? Come on, get your act together, IMDb. But. But we know what happens because we watched it. so. Okay.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Will, what are. What are your thoughts about this episode? We'll start there.

>> Will: Yeah. So after breaking all our collective hearts for the people who. Who didn't know what was happening, did not know what's happening, bottom line, that, that ending was, You know, it. It moved us all. So now we. We're dealing with the aftermath. Then, you know, we. We get the, cold open. Well, a couple. Well, first things first. They did adjust the. The, the opening credit, so. So now instead of Joel and Ellie walking, there at the end of the opening credit, we do have the, You know, now Ellie's just by herself. But in many respects, I felt like. And we'll get into, like, more, you know, some of the plot details and stuff here in a second. But just overall it. When I watched this episode, I was wondering how they were going to carry things forward. And in many respects it felt like a second pilot to me as I was watching the episode. but, But yeah, that's, you know, but, I enjoyed it and, you know, there was some death. There was definitely one scene in particular that. That definitely did, where, you know, I did have some emotional, like, you know, feedback or where I did tear up a bit. But, But yeah, that. Those are just sort of just things. Right, right. Right out the gate. What about you?

>> Sarah : yeah, I'll share my thoughts as we go along. But it's interesting you brought up. You felt like it was a second pilot because in the initial scene we have Tommy, walking in and, all the bodies, because. Because what. What I think that they did a good job in, specifically in this episode is carrying forward that it wasn't just Joel who died. Yes. Like, our main lead got killed. It's awful tragic. Ellie is without her father figure, like, horrible. But last week's episode, a large part of it, was also about the. The horde ravaging Jackson Hole. And so there. There were other losses. And there's that scene in that episode at the end and all of the carnage. You have Tommy and Maria embrace, like the. The trials of wars. And. And please, somebody, correct me if I'm wrong. I know Joel is a. Is a vet, but isn't Tommy as well? I'm pretty sure. So, like, I'm sure there's ptsd. So what I liked about this opening is, yes, Tommy walks into the place and is focused on Joel's body, like he knows which one it is, and he walks over to clean it up. But this shot, the shot design also allows us to see, like, Joel isn't the only one dead. And like, that's carried forward with, like, the burial site and. And a lot of other themes in this episode that really allows them to. I'm not going to say justify, but it allows the writers to kind of give more justification. I will say it. Whatever. It's the only word that's come to mind, for. For the outcome of the council vote.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And. And also for Tommy's whole ambivalence that he's dealing with Right. Right now. but why. I. I wanted to start there. I mean, it is the first scene, but it's also. When you brought up pilot, the first line of dialogue we get in this episode is send my love to Sarah.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : After he sees the broken. The broken watch.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Okay, Now I have a problem to pick with Ellie, because I just want to get this point out and then you could jive it. Ellie, you best be going back to that shoe box and grabbing that watch, because that was a dear possession of Joel. I saw you took the pistol. You best be having that watch as well. You know what that means. But anyway. Okay.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that, That was definitely the gut. That was the first gut punch when. When Tommy does say that to Joel, give Sarah my love. because, you know, again, it just really just hammers home the point that, you know, when it. When it. When they focus on the watch and, you know, we. And we see the watch, you know, we think about the pilot, you know, because the watch did, you know, Sarah got that for him for his. Got it fixed for his birthday. And then it gets, of course, broken the night the, face gets broken again the night of the, When the outbreak happened. And. And. But also it's just, again, that through line of just, you know, Joel, whether it was Ellie, then later Dina, for, a moment, even though she didn't appreciate it.

>> Sarah : Abby.

>> Will: was that father figure? And, and, and, and. And also to your point about the loss of. In Jackson, we. We saw in the first episode, Joel really had become a. A. Almost a father figure or leader in the community. So it was just so many things that. That I'm glad you brought up the. The carnage of Jackson and other people who. Who. Who were lost during the. The invasion.

>> Sarah : Right.

>> Will: you know, it just really hammers home the point of who Joel was to. To so many people.

>> Sarah : Right, right. Yeah. And. And like, I think leadership is the key word. I mean, they didn't exactly say it, but to me, it kind of was implied. There was a vacant scene on the council, and Jesse took it. Like, I think. I think that was Joel C. On the council. So. So it's, Like, he was a big pillar, and you could. With the town meeting, you could get the sense that there was conflict and there were people who were speaking for and people who were speaking against. And you. And you can't argue with the people who are speaking against it because you were reminded throughout the episode of, like, yeah, what if they come back, but what if others come back? And then you're going to send 16 people, like, we're still on the Reba. It's been three months. Three months. Like, that's. That seems long, but at the same time, no, that's. That's very brief period of time. I do just the other thing. I want to comment about what you just said. What do you brought up? Abby? Okay. I. I don't know if I missed it, but, like, I. I think what you were getting at was the fact that he saved her because at no point was he being a father figure for Abby.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't articulate it as well, but, yeah, I mean, I guess it was the point, you know? And also just thinking about the conversation that Joel and Gail had as far as I saved her, which comes up again in this episode. I was thinking that was really where I was. Where I was going.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: So maybe not. Maybe not the father figure, but I guess the protector is maybe M. M. Maybe where I was thinking,

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Will: Serving that role.

>> Sarah : Yeah. that's interesting. and then the, The next scene in this opening, while we're still, like, coming off of the vents from the previous episode is Ellie wakes up, disoriented, and then just sees Joel die again. And then they immediately put her back to sleep, and rightfully so.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : another big theme in this Episode that kind of picks up right when, three months later, and Ellie's getting out of the hospital, and she has to talk to Gail for the first time in this episode, is. Ellie's a liar. We, we, we pretty much figured that out. and, and like, I, I'm very curious about the direction Bella was given for this scene, because I will be honest. I, I, and I, I'm. I, Like, for me, the entire conversation with Gail, I think I was more annoyed with Ellie in this scene than I was with her in the first episode. Because there was. Because I'm just like, you're, you're A, lying. And B, you're also really bad at it. Like, I don't know, like, extremely bad at it. And like, I, I'm supposed to feel bad for you right now, but I kind of feel bad for Gail. Poor woman lost her husband and, like, couldn't. Like, she's not able to get justice, but, like, you're just lying to her. Like, she has a mystery, which is brought up. But, but I'm just like, if you're gonna be a liar, Ellie, you gotta get better at it because you're, you're really bad at it right now.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, that, you know, and I think to the end of the episode where, where Tommy and, and Gail are talking, about Ellie and the lion. And, you know, Tommy raises the point as a nature nurturer because they, you know, they were part of the con. You know, part of the context of the conversation was really getting it. Like, Joel and Ellie and their person. There's. That's, there's similar personality traits and, but, but, you know, you know, so thinking, you know, so that set up in the. With the session where Abby, excuse me, Ellie, like, tells Gil, oh, I'm good. I'm good. And I had the same reaction. You did, too. I was like, man, ah, she is lying through her teeth. And, and, but at the same time, I was just like. And Gail, you know, Gail basically knew it too, at that.

>> Sarah : Oh, yeah, because she started acting, like, weird about it too. Like, you could, you could tell with her responses and the sarcasm and all of that. But, like, yeah, this conversation between Gail and Tommy is arguably my favorite scene in this episode. because Gail is starting to become a fascinating character. and I really hope we see more of her as the seasons and even next season. And just. And man, I swear, writers, hear me now. We best be getting, a flashback to, how her husband died, because that, that man's name Keeps getting dropped in every single single episode and is very critical. But we'll get. but before we do, I do want to point out this quote from the scene between Gail and Tommy. And it's, it's the quote that is why the, this episode is called the Path. If she's on a path, it's not one that Joel put her on. No, I think they were walking side by side from the start. Some people just can't be saved. So this whole idea, like, and, and, and something that I don't. I, I, I'll be honest, I haven't listened to. I listened to maybe one review about this so far. I just didn't have time to listen to any others. But I don't know how much people are, linking this song that was played at the end of last week's episode and this idea of the path, because that song there is. They talk about a path and, and, and everything in the lyrics. So it's, it's very interesting to me that they, and that song is very important in terms of the game. And, and of course, we have it sung by. Covered by the actors who played Ellie in the game. So, like, just like how I, I still stand by that, that scene that you've mentioned earlier, this evening between Gail and Joel, the therapy, like, those themes we're gonna see play out throughout this entire season. Yeah, this path idea, it's the same thing. And like, really, the first season, Joel and Ellie were literally on a path side by side like they were. And it's just, it's such a, it's such a good metaphor. And now in this episode, towards the end, we see, we see Dina and Ellie walking side by side, down a path. Now, is it the best path? We don't know. it's a path. But, but it's, It's. It's just I, I really. That stuck out to me and I love the connection because I don't, I don't think that a lot of people talked enough about the lyrics of that song, and why it was so fitting for ending that episode, and also fitting in context of the story as a whole.

>> Will: Yeah, I, Yeah, I haven't seen it. I mean, I think I may have seen maybe a stray thread or something about it to that. But, but you're right. As far as some of the other. I have listened to a couple reviews and different, folks and that, that, maybe, Yeah, because not even the, I don't even know if they even the main podcast on it for HBO with. With the showrunner, with Neil and Craig and Troy Baker. I don't know if they've raised it to. To what. What you. What you've shared tonight. So. Yeah, I mean, I think that you're. But you're right. I mean, but I, do see what that, what you're talking about there. you know, as far as that path, and of course, Ellie and Dina being on that new one. And then of course, there was the. The religious, cult group as well that was, was on. You know, there were a lot of paths in this. In this. In this episode. And. And then also, you know, as you rightly noted, Gail. Gail's line to Tommy. they were watching a baseball game.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. They're getting drunk, watching a Little league baseball game. And Gail admits, like, I. I need a therapist. I need to go to therapy so that I can be a good therapist for everyone else, but there isn't one. So. So what does she do? She just gets drunk, she becomes an alcoholic and smokes a shit ton of weed.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Like. Like, she's. She's. So. She's very interesting.

>> Will: She's very interesting.

>> Sarah : She's had tragedy.

>> Will: She.

>> Sarah : I mean, she's lived through all of this, and, And then to have what happened to her husband. Okay, well, this is interesting. The more I think about Gail and what they're potentially setting up with her. And it goes back to the Watch, because when we talked about the Watch during the pilot episode, and arguably probably later on in the season as well, that watch broke like, time stood still in that moment, and it broke in a pivotal event for Joel, and arguably time stood still for Joel from that point until he met. Met Ellie, like, figuratively and arguably even after he met Ellie, because there was. He. He had a ton of baggage. Gail. Gail is of a different mind where she smokes a ton of weed and becomes an alcoholic to get through the day. But. But you know what I'm saying? There's something about the context of her, like. Like, she doesn't have a kid playing in the game, but she's gonna go and act like it's this big Major league baseball game because, like, she's just trying to be normal in a very abnormal situation. And. And arguably, that's what a lot of people in Jackson Hole are doing.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They. They really are. I mean, I was thinking about that as we were talking. As we were talking about the Little League baseball game, and. And, you know. Yeah, they're trying to create some New sense of normalcy. Also, just. Even the governing council is.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: is, is that just, you know, having a democratic system? Especially when you think about the other groups that we've met along the path. You know. You know, Fedra is like military organization. You know, we were introduced to the w. The Wolves in Seattle, which again looks like a very, you know, another paramilitary organization. We got the, we got the cult. So everybody.

>> Sarah : Yeah, I. Sorry, I just wanted to say the call is, they're called the Seraphites.

>> Will: Yeah, the Seraphites.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: Yeah, we were introduced to them in this episode. then tragically they were taken out, you know, assuming that it was the, the wolves that did it. So, yeah, so I mean it's just, it's just, it's very interesting in this world how everybody is. Is trying to cope but also trying to. But also have set up systems to, to govern behavior in this new. In this new post apocalyptic world. And also like you said, I mean, I think that's spot on with, with you now, with Joe with the watch and Joel and Gail. Both of them, you know, they're basically in some. We're are frozen in time to that. That event. Whether it was the actual, you know, the pilot with things with Joel and now of course the moment Joel kills Eugene. So, and, and both of them have. Have learned how to cope with it in their own ways. You know, Gail just, you know, getting blitzed and, and, and, and, and

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: Be a therapist for everybody else.

>> Sarah : Yeah. So. So Eugene is also a former Firefly who. It sounds like he was a part of WLF in Washington for a moment. where. Or he was aware because even the Fireflyers, like WLF is technically a faction of Fireflies, if I'm not mistaken, to what you were getting at. It's like we're. The world is becoming bigger, not smaller, the more we go on in the story as there are. There are a lot of different factions and societies that have been built in place m. As. As the world came crumbling it down because like people need people. and so they have to create some kind of normalcy. But, but through that you also do develop different conventions of what you were getting at of rule and order and right and wrong and. And you see a more dictatorial effort, the religious effort and just small town Jackson.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : but. And we did come across a few other factions or a few other colonies if you will, on our way to Jackson last season. So it's. There are so many out there. and so I'm curious to see if we'll, we'll find more. you already touched on what we saw happen to some of the Seraphites in this episode. and then when Dina and Ellie make it to j. make it to Seattle, it's too quiet. And I just want to say that shot from the Space Needle was pretty cool. that was a pretty, just set design wise, that was good. The actor who played Falcon. Yeah, like this is the first time in a long time I've liked you, sir. Okay. I don't know what you're doing in that scene, but I was like, yeah, yeah, you're an. But I like it. Okay. I'm good with it. and then, and then what struck me about the final scene in this episode was it brought me back to the Walking Dead. and, and it's funny because when I think about it, the moment Dina and Ellie find the highway and you see the cars FL for some reason that shock also brought me back to the Walking Dead because. And I know why. And I'm pretty sure it's in season, towards the end of season one or beginning of season two where they have to make it through a highway and there's all these zombies coming out of cars. And so like it's, it's just like that image kind of, stuck with me. But at the end it reminded me of Walking Dead because to an extent it felt like you have a abandoned, wore down, down Seattle downtown street and just these people who are all in like walking uniformly. But it's also just very creepy because there's no one else around. So it feels, and I like how they were shot from behind. Yeah, it felt, it did feel militaristic, but at the same time it felt creepy. And it, and it, and it played more into the post apocalyptic, nature of the show.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah, it totally did. Because. Yeah, because you know, Jackson overall, you know, you're right. Jackson has become a small town. It has that pre disaster small town Phil. And you know, and they have, you know, they still have the council, they have, you know, order, you know, as a democratic society, whereas every, you know, but that Seattle just feels, yeah, it did feel creepy. And also I like the I like how, you know, with, with Ellie and, and Dina were going on the, the trip, you know, and even whenever they were discussing you know, they were under the impression that Seattle is just gonna, this is, you know, it's just going to be not that many people there. and then, and then. So they. So whenever we do see this big group, marching down the street, it's just like, you know, oh, you know, we are. We're introduced to great, you know, greater challenges. So, again, the show, you know, know, the quarter steps are still out there, but it's not the focus. it's a threat that's still out there, but it's really all the people. And, you know, and like you said, you know, the groups, for example, we encountered the first season, now we're. Now that we're in the second season, now we're getting this next threat to. To our. To our protagonist here.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. and. And in this episode, I'm so glad we didn't see a single infected.

>> Will: Nope.

>> Sarah : And. And I think that was perfect. I think coming off of last week, we needed to, like, as you just said, like, focus in on the people who got left behind are still there and the new foes, that. That are on our horizon. and it really allowed. the actress who played Dina, I do want to give a shout out. She's doing an awesome job. I. I love her more now than I did in the game. I feel like the relationship between her and Ellie is really kicking off on all cylinders the way it's supposed to, and it's really working. and same thing with the actor who plays Jesse. he has a good scene with Ellie in this episode as well.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : so, like, I. I, like, I don't. I didn't get too much of, like, this felt like a second pilot. So much as this felt like, okay, everybody take a deep breath. Let's just, like. I mean, let's just. It's an interesting thing in a way. There was so much noise last week. They needed to quiet it all down and be like, we. We're only in episode three, y'all. We got more story to come. and more. More people to introduce and things to happen. So. Yeah, I. Now you mentioned you kind of teased it, and I don't think we got there, but, Will, what was the. What was the scene that made you cry?

>> Will: Yeah, this one. This one. it was just. And I'll. You know, as we were talking about Ellie being, you know, Ellie being a liar, I think this was the scene of her having to, you know, go through. Go to the back of the house and go through Joel's stuff, and this scene was just. It worked. I mean, it just. I mean, I. I, You know, it was just so honest in Bella's portrayal. I don't know if she's had to have to deal with this in her personal life or not. But as someone who has been in that situation, my father passed away and you know, that first time he, after everything is done, funerals happen, whatever, and the first time you go back and you, and I'm sure some of our listeners probably, you know, who've had to sadly have to go through this experience, probably gets where I'm coming from. it's just, it's just gut, it's just gut wrenching and, and, and really just did connect. I did connect with this scene and understand what Ellie was feeling as she was like, especially when she started, you know, touching the jacket and going through the things and. Yeah, it was just a super, we know Ellie always has know she puts up that exterior. She does the things like, for example, Gail calls her out. Well, not, not directly, but her reaction lets us know that Gil is on to her as far as her lying to her about how she's feel, feeling and whatnot. But this moment here was just so honest. And yeah, I mean, I, yeah, I was, I was a little, yeah, this, you know, I didn't tear up last week with the, with the Joel dying, but this was the one that was like, damn, this, this, this, this. Yeah, you know, I, I, I, I appreciated the honesty of that scene, when they were doing that.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, that, that makes sense. And, and you're exactly right. You, we got so much of her lying that to then go into that moment and see pure honesty play out. and she didn't say anything like, and, and that was why it was honest, because Ellie lies through her.

>> Will: Lighten things up a bit. Yeah. Let's go to the, to the, the council meeting.

>> Sarah : Oh. Oh, I thought we were gonna move on. I thought we kind of talked about the council meeting.

>> Will: Oh, no, no. Ellie's speech in the council meeting.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Will: To our point about, to the point about, you know, because m. Yeah, because we had the, I guess with the council meeting just, you know, just to really quickly touch on Seth because, you know, he, he said the things that Ellie wanted to say, but, you know, But Jesse, to your point, you know, he gave Ellie wise counsel on what not to, what not to do. But, but yeah, I just, yeah, that was, that whenever, whenever I think they even, they shot the girl again. Another moment where she was just like, man, what is this, this kid's talking about? you know, so again, it's just, I guess how, how, how great the character Gail is. And then I guess the other, other moment that was really, really touching in the episode and was whenever they do leave, leave Jackson on the way to Seattle and do stop at the you know, stop at the graveyard again to honor, you know, to, to say goodbye to Joel and, and, and the coffee beans. and I thought back to like Joel and Elliot's conversation about coffee. hell, you know, she, she. I can't what you call it like big or something like that. But but you know, just. Again, just that love that they had for one another that she had for him and you know, just that moment of. Because I think, I think that was a difference that they made from the game to the to the TV show. Because I think in the game she just grabbed the dirt and you know, put it back down. But here they had her, you know, leave the coffee beans, which, you know, obviously coffee is such a great commodity and you know, so Joel was always very ecstatic when, whenever he was able to get it.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. okay, well that leads us to. Now that it's almost 7 o'clock at night for me.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : we get to talk about three hours of Andor.

>> Will: Yes we do. Yes we do.

>> Sarah : How do you, how are you?

>> Will: Yeah, let's just take it episode by episode. I think we can. Like, but with like the three, I guess with the major story lines with with each, each unit. Because I think that's probably the easiest way of hitting Endor.

>> Sarah : Okay. Okay.

>> Will: So. Yeah.

>> Sarah : So episode one, one year later, an undercover mission is sanctuary threatening a chandelierian wedding. A chilling Empire Imperial Plan. yeah. What did you think about this episode, Will?

>> Will: It was. I, you know, I really, really enjoyed getting back into this world. I mean this is, this is, this is like what I've been missing from Star wars is just good, great, just great storytelling. and really hitting on, you know, really hitting on the things that George Lucas did very well with, with Star wars in and of itself with allegory, storytelling, with, you know, with, with the Empire, with the Rebellion. So. yeah, just, yeah, I, I, But it was a, I thought it was as a very, these first three episodes was a very solid start, I think. Actually, I think it started this, these first three episodes to me started better than, than the first three episodes of season one did because we definitely, you know, from the action folks, we were able to jump right in out from, from the get. with Cassian, stealing the TIE fighter prototype. and then, and Then, you know, and then also just with this one year later, it really did reorient us with. With all the key characters. So we had Cassian and his story, of course, Mamatha and her story. What's going on with the Empire and then the Ferrarix screen.

>> Sarah : Yeah. yeah, I, I thought the three episodes were. Were good. It's a good dart. I. I don't know if I think they are better or worse than the, the first three, episodes of the first season. I remember everyone being really high on Andor, specifically about the third episode of the first season. so I'm. I'm glad all three episodes were released at once. because dear Lord. Yeah, and. And. And I, I think this episode was good. Like, okay, I'm. I'm struggling here with how. How I'm gonna explain my thoughts in this way. I'm gonna. I'm probably gonna jump around people. Like, even though Will wants to do storyline or episode by episode, I'm gonna jump around. I think I, think so my least favorite storyline of these three episodes is Cassian's. Like, he had the least to do. It was so annoying to me. Like I could give a. About the people on Fairfax. I was just like. And, and they got the most time because Andor's there. But I was like, I, I was completely checked out in episode two on that storyline. I would. I didn't fast forward though. I know what y'all thinking. I did not fast forward any of it. Watch the whole thing. Did I look at my phone? Yes. I also felt like, like some of the action sequences went on way too long, but I, I'll always complain about that. and there wasn't enough Bix. I thought Bix had arguably the most interesting thing going on in this episode in these three episodes. Com. Comparable to Bon Matha for sure, especially in the third episode. But. But Bix with her PTSD and. And I, I didn't watch any like, previous Leon or any recap of, season one, even though Will told me I should. so I went in kind of like still. Okay, so here we go again. And I was surprised, and this is a strength to the writing, how quickly I was able to put pieces together of what was going on, who was who, and. And also recall events from. Not only from season one just in general, but I do remember what happened to Bix and why she was. Is behaving the way she is. And I was thinking about this. Like in season one, they basically mind rape her, right? And then. So she's dealing with that and you can see it very subtly. and in these quiet moments. And then in the third episode, she's confronted with potentially getting raped physically by the Lieutenant. Disney would never let that happen. so. So I. And. And also she's a freaking badass because, man, man, she needed no help. She. Total self defense. It was. It was very awesome, awesome scene. even though the context, like, gross. But yeah, it was very good.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : So. So I, I really. I essentially. And it wasn't just Bix. I. I found everything to do with the Harvest, like, there. There was fear. We understood why there was fear there. the. The. The threat of the visas. The. Also, also that these are characters who we know are close to Cassian and he's not there as their protector. And so like, the precariousness of their situation throughout these three episodes really had me intrigued. so that was my favorite storyline, followed very closely, arguably just because of the way it ended. But Mon Motha's stuff, everything to do with wedding.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, that was. Yeah, I would agree with you. yeah, going back to Bix and. And the. That story, her, you know, her arc, I was just like, poor. they just. Poor woman's been through the ringer. Because you're right. I mean, she was tortured and stuff by the Empire in the first season. Then, you know, with the second episode, the. The. They laid the. The foundation for what that Lieutenant was. You know, whenever he was like, where's your husband? And all that kind of stuff. You know, knowing. Knowing that this is a. This regime is just all about, you know, abuse of power and control. you saw where that was going. And so no, they, you know, when they did have the scene in the third episode, they attempted sexual. Sexual assault. it was, you know, it wasn't gratuitous, I didn't think. I know there was some. Just, you know, there's been a lot of discourse about that scene. but, you know, in the context of the story, it. It made sense, for why it was there. And, and like you said, I love the fact that she was able to defend herself and was able to get. Get, you know, get out of that situation. but yeah, and also, as I mentioned, as far as my overall fallacy with the story, the story on the. On the. The Harvest planet, I, think. I think it's Maya Rao, I believe is what it was called. But, you know, it was just so many, like, historical parallels as far as, you know, show us your papers and the whole thing now with, you know, the present day with, the visas and. And you know, migrants and. And so it's very. It was very topical, both from a historical perspective, but also, both so present day. So that. Yeah, I mean everything about that storyline, and with. With. With the Ferrix crew with, you know, and also, you know, it took me a minute to remember who. You know, Willman, the. The teenager young man. I guess his dad was the one. You know, his father was also tortured and killed by the Empire. So it makes sense why he was, you know, while he was. While he's with the crew. And of course Brasso, who was also. I thought, you know, I really enjoyed Brasso, you know, seeing him again. Great. you know, I've always liked this character. You know, of course he was. Whenever they did have, casting, his mother's funeral, you know, he was, you know, he. I remember him hit, you know, hitting the Imperials with a brick and all that kind of stuff. But also, you know, with this storyline here, you know, he was like turned over by the you know, who they thought was a friend, but you know, turns out he was a low level collaborator, with the Empire. so, you know, all those things about that, that storyline, with the Harvest Planet, you know, really. Really. I agree with you. I think it was my. Probably. I agree that was number one storyline for me as well. And then the wedding with Mon Motha. Yeah. And. And just against have her having to get her hands started. Getting her hands dirty with, you know, her conversations with Lutheran and the whole thing going on with Ty and with you know, with his. His. His marital problems and financial problems and how he tried to like, you know, how he went from being like this big, big talker Tay, you know, like, oh, you know, I'm Mr. M. Rebellion. You know, I don't know if this, this conversations may be too much for you in the first season to now. He's like the guy who's just like down on his luck and he's trying to bribe Mon Motha. So. Yeah, those, Those. Those elements too were like very, very strong.

>> Sarah : Yeah. I. So with the Mon Mothma stuff, and started to realize I had similar sentiments last season as well. Her husband is fascinating. he gives a speech at the end of the second episode. and it says, my m. Hope is that you move past this cloud of sadness. Pleasure, gaiety, amusement. These are the hidden things. Joy will not announce its arrival. You need to listen for it and be mindful of how fleeting it can be. And it's such a good. I can appreciate the words because at first it kind of took me off guard because I'm like, oh, that's actually a good fatherly toast for a wedding where he's giving away his daughter. And. And like. Like, you could see, even though, you know, to some extent he's a dirt bag. Like, they. They. Like, it's not a loving relationship between these two. They, whatsoever. I mean, at one point it might have been, but things have changed. He accuses Ty of being, her boy toy and her boyfriend's upset and. And all this. And. And. And there throughout this entire thing. Like, I think I paid more attention to. Attention to, period than I did Tay. Just because. Or Ty. Is it Tay or Ty? T. Okay, he. Because. Because he didn't say as much, but the camera kept cutting to him and a lot of observations. See, so. And. And I felt. I feel like they're. They're building up to something, with him, for.

>> Sarah : Sure. Because, I mean, there's a. There's a war going on. albeit a secret war, but there's a war. And he has his suspicions of his wife, and she has hers and everything. But specifically why this speech, I think is so good is because that ends, pretty much ends the first, Like this storyline in that second episode. And then the ending of the third episode is like Mon Mothma realizes that. That her best friend, her dear old friend, friend Tay is gonna get killed.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And. And she's at fault for this. Just like she's the reason. And, And her rebellion and leading this rebellion is the reason why she just had to marry off her daughter, even though the match. No chemistry. So, like. Like she. So there's so much mom guilt. So for them to juxtapose that reality with her honestly living out exactly what Perion says in his speech in the previous episode. like she finds the joy. The music is playing and everything. I thought that was so good. So good that I got pissed off at the editing because I had whiplash, I think, last week when we were talking about the Last of Us and we had these two critical things going on, one in Jackson and one with Joel and Ellie at the ski lodge. The editing allowed scenes to breathe. Allowed specifically storylines. I don't know what happened to the editors with episode three, but that towards the end, I was like, you need to stop. We get it. I can't. Like. Like, it was. It, It turned me off. Like. Like, I was just like okay, this is driving me crazy. It just felt too much like they overplayed it. Initially it was fine and then I was like, okay, so we're still doing this. Ten minutes later, we're, we're still doing this.

>> Will: Okay, yeah, yeah, I, I, I, I can see that. I mean I, I think because I, I on first watch it, it did not, it, I, I did not notice it. But I watched episode again this half this evening before, before we recorded and, and I, and I, I see what you're talking about. It is varied on, on the second watch. It is very, very distracting. in some respects because it, it does, it is over edited. I would agree.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. I, I think that where they, where they went wrong was because they were really juxtaposing Mon Mothma and this, this dance, but also her diet like, like grief, internally with, with, with a fight. And, and so so to me, like for lack of better articulation, like there's both scenes had so much noise that really to get away with that much back and forth you needed one of them to be quiet and one of them to be loud. So you had a good juxtaposition. Instead it just felt like okay, yeah, you, you, you're dealing with three story lines this whole time. You could have ended this one like 15 minutes ago and then we could have had the full like sequence play out. Like I, I think, I think maybe that especially towards the end, but I've beaten that point to the to death at this point. So I'm gonna try to move past, past it. But I, I do think they started off stronger with balancing the three storylines and, and yeah, technically there's four because we get some in Imperial, which all the Empire stuff did for me. And I, and I was just like damn it, Ben Mendelsohn, you're a fantastic actor. I love you. You're so good. Like the whole, the whole Gorgum project introduction. I love that scene so much. I, I there, there's something like and, and Will, I want to hear your thoughts on this. But there was something about that scene that just felt so like funny but also like okay, okay, these guys are, are bad people. it's the fact that he plays essentially a propaganda built movie, ah, movie for other Empire Imperial leaders.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : To get them on board with this thing.

>> Will: Yeah, that, that scene. Yeah. It was just again, you know, as I said, my overall thoughts, it, this is when this is when I really enjoyed this show because it just it just nails it with the prop, you know, with, with like you said. And it's funny because I, I was listening there, I think to interview with Mendelson. I think Tony Gil had to pull him back because at first he was playing Chronic, is too m. Mustache. Trly.

>> Will: And so he had to tell him to dial it back a bit. And by dialing it back, yeah, it, you know, it, it makes that scene works. Work so, so well. Because. Yeah, I mean, you know, he is, you know, he's, he's the propaganda machine, you know, and, and, and also when thinking about like other elements even like in the story, like, you know, going back to Mona, you know, how Gorham is such a, A pivotal place in the, in the galaxy because, you know, you had the. What you had the wedding party member who talked about. Yeah, my, you know, my.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: One parents from Naboo, but my other parents from Gorham. you know, of course, first season you had the, the trade lines and stuff and, and, and the propaganda and, and of course, you know, the, you know, using, using this project to like, say it's going to help us with our energy dependence and you know, and you know, even though we all know that this, this, this cow kike is just going to be used to, you know, for the Death Star.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: But everything about it and just, and delay, you know, because I understand from the interviews with Tony Gilroy that the Gore massacre, it's a big thing in Star wars because it's like if you've watched Rebels, you, you know, that that incident is what is the final straw to get my month up to leave the Senate. And. Yeah, but, yeah, but I mean, Tony Gilroy's been very clear that, you know, they know the massacre is, coming and we all. Yeah. but, they're apparently they're going to play this out over, you know, over the course of, I think three or four. Three or four episodes. and so I, I like the way that they used this first batch to sort of lay the foundation that it's not just going to just pop up on us. They're going to, I mean they're going to show how what was so genius about it was the use of propaganda. And again. Yeah.

>> Sarah : The, the use of it. Like, like what I thought was genius about it is not necessarily the use of it because I'm used to that. Like the Imperial doing very dictatorial.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Dictatorship. Yes. But, but the fact that the scene consists of him trying to convince the others who are on a part of that. And like even Deirdre, Deirdre says like, oh, I, I know he critic offered this to me. I don't want that.

>> Will: Right, right.

>> Sarah : Like, like, I, I, I think in a way by allowing KCK to, to behave in that manner with all that freaking ego and showing that video and like bringing up what the guys from the Enlightenment, which is basically their PR people.

>> Will: Yeah. The Ministry of Truth. Immediately I was like, man, they're like pulling out 1984 in this thing.

>> Sarah : I, I could have sworn they, I, I don't think they said the Ministry of Truth. I could have sworn it was a Ministry.

>> Will: No, it was in 1984. It's the Ministry of Truth. I was just saying. But in the show they call them the Ministry of Enlightenment, I think.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, but, but then, but then you, you see the hesitancy. You see there's multiple conversations and then you continue that with Deirdre obviously being nominated to take the lead and then kind of being forced to in the end, even though she didn't want it. And then speaking about Deirdre, I called it last season. Like, I remember this. I remember when these, when Cyril and Deirdre met. Eyes. Heart eyes.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Weird. Heart eyes.

>> Will: Weird.

>> Sarah : You know what? So, so here's what I couldn't figure out.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : While watching Cyril and Deirdre, especially with the mom. They're not married yet.

>> Will: No.

>> Sarah : Okay. But they are knocking boots for sure.

>> Will: They're definitely.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and I, and I like Deirdre and how she handled Cyril's mom. Like, like, and I'm glad we didn't get too much. Like, it's weird. I did feel like the first episode up until we finally see, See Deirdre. I, I was like the whole episode being like, where's Cyril? Where is that? Where's that? Where is he? Like, I see Deirdre, where's the other one? And, and then we finally see him. But we, we don't get a lot of them. Like, I think why, ah, a, strength of these three episodes is the, the heroes are dealing with some high stakes situations, of course, but it's all the, the, the character foes, like your Krennic or your Tarkin or whatever. you guys all know I'm bad with names of characters. No, no, yeah, yeah. Like, like they're not, they're not directly facing off with these guys. Instead we gotta, we got a lieutenant here. We have, we have these imbeciles who, who Cassian has to Help. But also has this tape from. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, like we have these. And then with Mon Mothma it's, it's more of a political, rightfully so prowess of like friendships and, and being a mom and the sacrifices that she's making to move forward with this rebellion. So it's it was very, that was very unexpected, but I'm glad because I felt like it was just a perfect amount of Krennic, Deirdre, Cyril, to get, get us through this and to really launch us into this second chapter of the show.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I, I completely agree. I think they did do a balance of overall a really good thing. And even though I agree with you that the the story with Cassian and the Proto and the other rebel cell, you know, even though I felt I was like you, it. There were parts of it where I did feel kind of checked out. It was still, it was very important to establish. And again, you know, again we're four, you know, we're four years prior to the Battle of Yavin. And so you know, at this point the alliance is still the, that element of distrust is, is out out was. It's everywhere. I mean you see it with, with Luthen and his interactions with with Mon Motha, you see that with these other rebel cells that are out there, you know, thinking about Star Wars Rebels, which is, you know, the animated show, you know, we see, you know, we also saw it there and, and so, so I, I, I, I, I. Even though there were parts of it where I was just like. It did. It does help to establish. It just gives us a sort of a, a foundation for like, you know, the rebellion wasn't all like cooking, you know, from, from the get, you know, we gotta, we gotta grow to that point. So just like we saw Cassian grow in the first season and, and how this episode starts with him, you know, at the base and you know, and just talking with the young lady who is the defector and yeah, you know, she's sort of, you know, she, you know, she's still questioning is she, you know, is she doing the right thing and stuff. So, so there were elements in that, in, in Cassian's story that were, that I felt were, were good and, and necessary. But they, there were elements of it where you know, I did feel like they went a little, went a little too long. But we know we do get that great shot at the end though of you know, establishing that this was, that this was, you know, the Gavin 4 and so again, hope is on the horizon. Even if these, even at these like, you know, even that rebel cell that was there, by the end of the episode, they were starting to like, come together. So. So, yeah, it was probably the weak. I won't say the maybe weakest is not this the right word. But it was not the most engaging story of the. Of other three that we had in the. In this opening set. But I think it did, it did serve the purpose that it needed. It just maybe went a little too long in some places.

>> Sarah : Yeah, I think they could have done better. Yeah, they could have done everything you just talked about, but it could have been more engaging. And yeah, I think I've shared all of my thoughts about andor in these first three episodes. so, unless you had anything else to say.

>> Will: No, I, I think we covered all the major, major, major beats, of, of the, of the first three episodes. So.

>> Sarah : Yep. All right, well that. On that note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?

>> Will: Yes, you can find me on all the socials at, willmpolk W I L L M M P O L.

>> Sarah : K And you can find me there too at SJ Belmont sjblm O N T. Please follow our crew on X formerly known as ah, Twitter at cenanerd on Blue sky, friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at scene, underscore n underscore nerd and Visit our website, www.scenanerdpodcast.com. but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.

>> Will: It.