Listen Up! The Last of Us Episode 2 x 2 Review You Can't Miss!

0:00 >> Will: Foreign. >> Sarah : This is Scene N Nerd I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Paul. How are you doing tonight, Will? >> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. It's a, Pedro Pascal podcast tonight. >> Sarah : Yeah. So, I finished the Pit over the weekend. >> Will: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I still need to start it. I still. And also I need to go see Sinners. >> Sarah : Well, I, I'm glad you brought that up because, man, I feel like that has been more on my feed and just like in the zeitgeist leading up to, of course, last or the other night when Last of Us, aired. But even. Even with the Last of Us, episode airing, I felt like Sinners was like, on so many people's minds and it even has my curiosity peak where I'm like, hm, I'm tempted. I'm tempted. And. And I know that there's been a lot of stuff also to come out about the specific deal that Ryan Coogler had in place, which is getting some backlash, from the, from, the old school.

1:21 >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Studios. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Because this deal was. Is kind of unprecedented to an extent. if I recall. >> Will: So does he get ownership rights? Is it after 25 years? >> Sarah : 25 years, ownership rights first, something about like he. He doesn't have to wait for the studio to make back their money before he gets his part, which, is another big deal. But. But there, There are, There are a handful of other filmmakers who have ownership rights over certain properties that they negotiated for.

2:03 >> Will: Yeah, I think Quentin Tarantino has it for once, upon a time. >> Sarah : Yes. Yes. Yeah, I feel like we read or watched the same stories because you're. >> Will: I was, I was. I was listening to a podcast about, Well, again, like you said, centers is everywhere. And yeah, I was, I was listening to the Higher Learning podcast on, on the Ringer. And they were talking about, Savannah Lathan who, who also like, does the Midnight Boys and some other things. But, But, yeah, they were talking about Sinners Today and they were. They were talking about this very issue when I was listening to the podcast when I was on my walk today. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. I mean, between that and then Haley Steinfeld's casting as well as her character, I've been hearing a lot about that. I feel like at this point, the longer I'll wait, the more I'll basically, whenever I do get around to seeing it, I'll have seen the movie with the number of clips or piece things together, because it's Just. It's just everywhere. Which. Good on them.

3:08 >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Yeah, that's good. And I hear that it's a, It's a story that opens up a world and there's likely to be a sequel and potentially even a TV show. >> Will: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's. It's great given that, you know, we. We do spend the majority of our time talking about, like, existing ip, so to have an original story. >> Sarah : Absolutely. >> Will: it is. It's great. It's great. And, I know I. I think I had either profiled this as far as, like, I guess the 2025 black films back. Back in February for, like, Black History Month. So. So, yeah, so, you know, I. I had planned on seeing it this weekend and just, you know, things happen. But, yeah, I'm definitely gonna go check. Check it out this weekend.

3:51 >> Sarah : That's good. So back to, where I started. I finished the Pit. >> Will: Yep. Sorry. No, no, that's another thing in his, like, Geist as well. >> Sarah : So it. It really is. I mean, it came out that 10 million viewers per episode while it was airing, and now the season has ended. Already in production for season two. We already know some things about season two, which will occur, about six to nine months after the first season, and it'll occur during the fourth of July weekend. I'm still. I was right before we started recording, I was like, oh, yeah, I have to talk about the Pit.

4:34 Well, what do I say about the Pit? Because was I. Was I pretty engaged? Yeah, I was for. For the most part, engaged. At the same time, I, This isn't. When I. When. When I say the words workplace drama, what are a few shows that come to mind? Will. >> Will: Workplace drama. That's, I will think er. >> Sarah : I would think it doesn't have to be medical. >> Will: Okay. well, even though. >> Sarah : But just a workplace drama like ER is one. But then you got your Chicago Fires, you got your Law and Orders, you got. Yeah, yeah, you got, like, these procedural shows, and then Grey's Anatomy, which is a soap opera masked as a workplace drama. Yeah, I thought I understood the definition of a workplace drama, and then I watched the Pit. The Pit is the epitome of a workplace drama because it is not a soap opera. It is not a soap opera.

5:52 It is also very much just like we. There are cameras in an er and you're just watching doctors do their thing and patients come and go, events happen. And of course, every now and then there'll be, like, some backstory about this doctor a little bit. But it's not, it's, it's. No, it's not really the same as a whole episode focused on one doctor dealing with this, like her relationship with her husband and balancing. No, it's none of that.

6:36 So, so it's, it's hard for me because I can appreciate the originality, especially in terms of. And I know that there's been some lawsuits about this being basically a dupe of er. Er. I did watch, like, I did end up, because it was airing on TNT and everything I've seen pretty much. I want to say all of ER for the most part. I, I think that it started off kind of as a workplace drama and then as it went on, it definitely became a soap opera. >> Will: Yeah.

7:17 >> Sarah : Yeah, it definitely did. >> Will: It's like NYPD Blue the same way. And, you know, any of those procedurals back in the day, they do sort of. They did morph into that. >> Sarah : Right. And I don't, I don't even know if you can consider this a procedural because like the, the context is every episode is one hour of a. One workday. You're just. The entire 15 hours is one workday. One shift, actually. So it's, it's, it is. I, I applaud the originality. I, I am going to watch season two when it comes out, but at the same time I am still just like, what can. I can. I fully.

8:04 I can. Obviously I enjoyed it. I wasn't turned off by any, anything except for that pregnancy, that birth episode. Just, just as soon as you see a pregnant woman enter the hospital in distress, turn off your. You don't want to see it, guys. You don't. so anyways, I just, I just am still kind of, kind of wrapping my mind around my feelings about this show. I, I liked it, but I, I, it's, it's very different. I've. Did I lose you?

8:47 >> Will: Well, no, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here. I put it on, on mute because it's, allergy season here in North Carolina, so, sometimes I had to sneeze a couple times. >> Sarah : It's okay. No worries. Yeah, but, but, yeah, so, so that is my thoughts on the pit. Whenever Will gets around to it, which sometimes Will likes to do this thing like what he did with the bear season two. He'll wait. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : An entire year before watching something so he can get on the hype train with the new season. >> Will: And that's what, that's what will probably happen. I do want to watch it. My sister in law Works. she's. She's a doctor and she does work in an emergency room. So I was. I was mentioning it to my wife. I was like, is your interested in anything about the pit? Because I, I want to see, you know, someone who does work in the medical profession wanted to get their.

9:37 Their. Their take on it, so. And in particular in that. In that. In that environment as well. So, I'll get around to it. Yeah. >> Sarah : And their reactions to the episodes on TikTok is what really led me to watching the show. And probably another reason, like, my real final thought on it is I knew too much going in because I had seen multiple scenes and as they were playing out, I'm like, okay, okay, I get the context now, but, like, the. The little beat of character, moments were all spoiled for me.

10:19 So. So I really knew where a lot of story. Storylines were going and a lot of the stuff like the sequencing of events kind of. But. But. And I will say the last four episodes in particular, I am so glad I was able to binge them. And I, I, think that that's why I, like, am interested in season two, because I really liked how that all, like, those last four episodes, it took a while to get there, but I, think that the culmination really, paid off. so. And then the other thing that I watched, which this is a surprise because everyone knows how I feel about trailers these days, so I did check out the Fantastic Four trailer relatively shortly after it came out last week.

11:13 mainly because I just wanted to see Silver Surface Surfer who looks pretty bomb. I kind of regret my decision, though, of watching the trailer, because between that trailer and the previous trailer, I'm like, okay, so now do we have the complete movie? They showed a lot of different things, in my opinion, in this one. And so I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, we got. >> Will: Yeah, it was like the teaser. And then of course, this really was like the. The official. The official trailer. you know, we. You definitely get all the beats. We, you know, we do get read. we actually do see re Stretch and all that kind of stuff. So. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

11:55 >> Will: Yeah. The pregnancy of, of, as well. But, you know, but, you know, of course they do. I still. Even though, you know, they did carry forward the scene with Herbie and. And thing from that. That, that again, I. I still, like, channel the bear every time. I, like, hear even my even bus rock like, talk. Thing. Talk, talk about that. I'm like, cousin. I just want him to say cousin once. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. Ever since Daredevil aired, I've been seeing a lot more clips of C from the Punisher season one. And he was in. That actor was also in that show. I have the same, I have the same problem.

12:36 I'm just like, cousin, what are you doing here? >> Will: Yeah, yeah, but so as I have the trailer here for playing in the background while we're talking about it. It's like, you know, the Silver Surfer. You know, they're the. Of course there was a female Silver Surfer out there. I know some people were having some issues with the gender swap and that kind of stuff. I'm like, okay, get over it already. But, know, I did like the, the Johnny Storm moments. And and one of the things I really did enjoy about the trailer too. of course we do get the, you know, more with Galactus and, and. And all. But also just the Bob. Just the retro, vintage vibe that's going on in you know, with this alternate universe at their end. And I'm very curious to see how they're going to like, bridge over to the primary, the Prime MCU universe as well. But I really did like the. Did like the whole vibe, that's going on, in this, you know, in their city.

13:34 >> Sarah : Yeah. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Very cool. All right, so that brings us to you, wanting. Wanting to do a Star Wars Celebration recap. >> Will: Yeah. So Star Wars Celebration was just in Japan this past weekend. And of course, you know, the day is the day of Andor season premiere, as well season two premiere, as well as we record tonight. So I know a lot of people are probably catching it and we'll start our reviews. Reviews of it next, week. But yeah, there were a couple things that did drop from the Star Wars Celebration. First, of course, we did get the Sean Levy sure.

14:30 That we also got, some Mandalorian Roku. Oh, we got one last May 2027. Of course, Mandalorian Grogu are coming, on May next next year. And they did show a trailer, that that at the event that did not. It hasn't. I mean, I think some states and stuff has like bootleg footage did pop up online. But But for folks who haven't seen it, you know, they did show a scene from Mandalorian Grogu and I'm just reading from the Hollywood Reporter description of it here. In the heavy action footage, the audience sees snow troopers inside at, ah, preparing to engage in battle. Then what appears to be an homage to the opening of the original 1977 movie in which rebels prepared for and then were massacred by invading stormtroopers. The Mandalorian cuts open the hall of the atat, then in one continuous take blast stabs Pyros and fights his way through the snow troopers, making his way through the hall and then hallway ending at the door of the cockpit which closes quickly. The seals of Real also, shows the mysterious character played by Sigourney Weaver speaking to Mando and Grogu reminding Mando that she. That he works for her. There's also some more battle scenes, and also, Grogu

16:02 swimming underwater. The reel concludes with a brief look of Jeremy Allen White, as wrote of the Hutt, the son of the crime lord Jabba the Hutt, raised in his hands to try up as some sort of fighting arena. And then cutting back to Grogu eating what looks like to be popcorn, in the Star Wars. Star wars version of the universe. So yeah, so that was the things, that did drop there, with Mandalorian Grogu. there was also ah, you know, folks to have seen, you know, this still photo of Pedro, as. As Den without the helmet on. because we know that he has him broken decreed and he can, he can go helmetless now as far as in the Mandalorian culture. Also there was the news that Darth Maul is going to have a new animated show that's going to premiere in 2026. Sam Witwer is returning to voice Darth Maul. we also got news about Ahsoka Season 2.

16:56 They're starting to film at the end, I think end of this month, I think starting next week. and they also had you know, there was a, you know, of course we sadly lost Ray Stevenson, but Rory McCann is stepping in to play, Balon. Hayden Christensen is returning as Anakin. apparently there's gonna be a big showdown between Abbar, who we saw in Return of the Jedi, and of course Thrawn was going to be returning, also Star wars, the Ninth Jedi, which was part of the season two of Star Wars Visions, which I've watched some of. Star Wars Vision is a, it's a I guess anime version of the Star wars universe. But one of the episodes in the second season is going to have a spin off for full for a new series called the Ninth Jedi, which will go into production soon. And then, we got the date of, Star Wars Celebration 2027, which will be April 1 4, and it'll be back in the States in Los Angeles. So those are some of the highlights from, from Star wars, from, Star Wars Celebration, that just happened this week.

18:02 >> Sarah : All right, so before we move into the Last of Us Season two, I, I just, I'm curious, because we, we, if I recall correctly, we share similar sentiments about the Mandalorian third season. are you now, based on the information that has come out about Mandalorian and Grogu, on board with the movie? Or are you still like. I don't know. >> Will: I'm on board with the movie now. >> Sarah : Okay. >> Will: I think. Yeah, yeah. And actually John. And the question did come to. Was, presented to John Favreau about whether or not, there was going to be a fourth season after the movie. And, and he, didn't really answer it. He just said, you know, he did the usual. I'm focusing on the movie right now, so.

18:50 So we'll see what happens if there's going to be anything back on the Disney plus platform, after. After the movie. But, But yeah, I think I, I. From what I. One of the other things they did talk about during Celebration that John Favreau did talk about having the benefit of being a feature film is the ability to do location shoots, not rely on the volume so much. The, budget, of course, even though, you know, obviously the Mandalorian did have, in many sense, you know, it has some cinema cinematic feels from time to time, but there were a lot of times you could clearly tell they were on the sound stage at the volume. See. >> Sarah : Yes. But that wasn't the problem I had with it. I had more of a story issues, specifically in the third season.

19:37 >> Will: Yeah. And the third season. Yeah. And I am 100% there. And a lot of that was, I think, due to Pedro's, like, schedule, where Brendan Wayne stepped in, for a lot of the scenes in that third season. And, and the story really did just sort of focus so much, you know, focus on the Mandalorian culture and, and other aspects of it. I just felt like it was. They were trying to do, like, multiple stories and, and none of it seemed like a cohesive hole, if I recall. It just didn't. It just, it didn't seem inspired. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. I mean, clearly we're having a hard time remembering what exactly happened in that third season. And it's. I, Like, like there were other issues leading into, like, the whole, Boba of it all.

20:20 >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : So. So, like. Like, I. I just. I. That's just standard, movie producer and writer. Oh. Now we get a bigger budget, so it'll work. It's like. Well, you had some script problems, so, like, are, you gonna. >> Will: Yeah. And. >> Sarah : And I can understand what you're saying about Pedro not being in the suit the whole time, but still, then that's just an acting thing. Like, at the end of the day, they're the story beats work or they don't. >> Will: Right. >> Sarah : which actually is a good segue into the Last of Us, Season two. and disclaimer. We are talking spoilers. If you're listening to this and you are either wanting to know what happens, then, okay, that's cool. I do that with stuff all the time. But we're gonna tell you what happens and share our thoughts about it.

21:13 of course. And this episode specifically does contain spoilers because Joel dies. Will, we're gonna. I'm. I'm not gonna. I don't want to go in chronicle logical order with this, because I think through the Valley. Know that that's plain. Right? >> Will: yeah. My head isn't. Isn't it original? I just wanted to. >> Sarah : Okay. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Okay. I just. I didn't know because earlier I could barely hear what you were saying over some of those. Those clips. So I don't know, audio wise. >> Will: Okay. >> Sarah : Yeah, all that is working out. If that's.

21:54 I get that that was intentional, but it. Yeah, I didn't. Okay, well, this is cool. so, yeah, Will, why don't you share your thoughts? >> Will: Yeah, so the, It is full. Yeah, let's just. Let's just talk about the Joel a bit. All, Joel. it worked for me, bottom line. it did. You know, obviously, I. I have seen the cut scenes and stuff, but, And even it's funny, Sunday before afternoon, you sent me a message and you're like, yeah, we're, you know, here we go for the Last of Us. Another episode of torture or something to that effect. Emotional trauma. I think that's what you said. And, But.

22:35 But he didn't spoil anything for me because I was just like, it's the last of us. Of course there's going to be emotional trauma. and, And so as the episode was happening, I was just like, okay, you know, we got the We. We. Things are happening and the whole siege of Jackson, and. And then we get to that. We get to that moment and it happens. And I. I had to sit with it there for a moment, even though I knew that it was coming. and, but it, the scene and we'll get into why it worked for me. >> Sarah : Ah. >> Will: As we discuss, you know, discuss the whole Abby storyline in this episode. but but yeah, it, I, I, I could understand, you know, and I think, and looking at the IMDb score, I think overall, whether you're familiar with the game or not, this like read it like 9.5. So for the, the episode to me is definitely one of the best episodes of this series. I know Bill, you know, the one from the two episodes from episode from season one still I think ranked higher for me. the Bill episode. And then of course when we see the, the brothers, but this one is right up there with, right up there with them.

23:57 >> Sarah : So when you say worked for you, what do you mean? >> Will: The emotional gut punch of of seeing essentially Ellie's step, you know, you know, surrogate father getting murdered her in front of her. And I think it was the acting, it wasn't so much. It was, it was, it was Bella's and Ellie's reaction and the things I've seen the cutscene from the game because I never played the game. But when they translated it into the television medium and just the Ellie's reaction, you know, whenever we see Joel try, you know, when she's like, Joel, get up. You know, that, that, that part of it, whenever Joel tries to get up, and then you know, and then of course after Abby drives the golf club through us, through his neck, and we get them, you know, we just get the moment of her just you know, with Joel. This is, right, this is, this is where I was just like, damn. I mean I got, I was like this, this is the moment where I was just like, yeah, I, I, I I've got it, I've got this episode. I just got to sit with it for a moment.

25:20 >> Sarah : What about, what about like, yeah, grief, pain, sadness, overwhelming. Then all of a sudden, I'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna kill you. I'm gonna kill you all. Were you based on that performance. >> Sarah : Terrified of Ellie in that moment? >> Will: Yes. >> Sarah : Okay. >> Will: I was, I was. And, and they set it up. And I think the thing that set up. Because I know last week when we talked about episode one, how, how Ellie's behavior was just so extra as far as just being the bratty 19 year old and everything else and, and just you know, trying to sort of independence and then you know, when you think, you know, you. And then we see that, and we see how. How things end with, you know, with the. Whenever she.

26:17 After the dance and Joel sitting on the porch and playing the guitar, and she just looks at him and. And then, of course, when this episode starts, you know, she. She's having the conversation with, Jamie, about, you know, what. What had transpired at the dance and, you know, Joel letting her sleep in instead of going out on patrol. but. Yeah, but at the same time, they're like, yeah, but we're cool. And so, you, know, it was. It was a thing where I was like, okay, whenever. Earlier in the episode, whenever she was talking to Jamie about the events of what happened. >> Sarah : It's not Jamie. It's Jesse. >> Will: Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, Jesse. Sorry, My bad. but, hey, at least. At least I had a J name.

26:58 >> Sarah : I know, I know. I. I, like, was gonna let it go, but you. You kept bringing him up, and I'm. >> Will: Like, yeah, sorry, Jesse. Yeah. Well, again, I mean. And I guess I'm just like, Yeah, I'm just. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I mean, I think it's just the. The emotion of the moment, thinking about it and just, Yeah, I mean, I think that's it. Just. Well, I guess where I was going with that, with. With their conversation was more did they. As a viewer, I was like, did they really have a moment afterwards where they did have, you know, they did talk about it and work through things or not? I don't know. And. And. And so, you know, so because of how things were between them and not knowing whether or not they did have a moment to try to make amends about things, it just. It just adds to the whole. The whole experience as far as what we. What we see and. And whenever Joel gets murdered by Abby.

28:03 >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, that. That's. That's true. And I agree. I agree with that. I. I still have a pro. I wasn't terrified by Ellie in that moment at all. I. There. There. I think there was something awkward for me about the timing. I think it. Like, it. There was. There was a. There was maybe a beat missed or something. but I agree, like, I really do appreciate Bella's performance, like, walking into the room, pulling the gun, getting kicked, and then begging for him to get up.

28:48 And just. That whole thing did. Did really work. I didn't cry. Will doesn't like it when I say this, but I am dead inside. So, And. And I have seen all of the Cut scenes from season two, years ago. And I'm so. I'm feel familiar with where everything is going. And, and I knew last week that they would kill him in this week's episode. but, I think, I think something that's also overshadowing me for, Or for me, something that is overshadowing Bella's performance in this sequence is, Is, Caitlyn's performance, as Abby.

29:36 and I want to focus on talking about Abby because I think, I've heard some mixed things. Some people like the monologue, some people don't like the monologue for very different reasons. To me, that monologue was not a villain mustache twirling monologue that was intentional writing so you understand why she's doing what she's doing. And also, more importantly, the parallelism and the creating a foil of Ellie. Okay. He drops some very important details. The game did not have this monologue.

30:20 >> Will: Nope. >> Sarah : Okay. They also. Last week. I don't know if you remember this, Will, I said I don't think they should have shown that scene of Abby in that episode because in the game, Abby comes out of left field and then just kills Joel. And you're like, what the. So, so, Abby here. And, and I, and I think that. I think this is all intentional, not story wise. But more importantly, because of the backlash that the actress who played Abby in the game got for this whole thing, they did not want Caitlyn to experience that. So instead these two episodes, they tried their best to, to at least give her some motivation that makes sense. So she doesn't entirely come out of left field. And even though, yes, you hate her, you also understand her.

31:33 >> Will: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think about. Yeah, I mean, I think. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. I, I just wanted to drive one more point home. Is that. And when I say you understand her, I think the. You killed my father. Like, yeah, yeah, that, that's something. But I really liked that other. The build up in the lead up to you killed an unarmed doctor. Like, and they even showed it like you were doing you. Like you made a choice like, this wasn't self defense. This wasn't anything. You left all the nurses, nurses alive in that room, but you killed the doctor.

32:21 >> Will: Yep. >> Sarah : So, so. And. And the consequences of it all is what we're seeing played out. So I just, I, I think the, A, the writing there was really good, but B, the, the delivery. Because. Because I know that a lot of people who, who are familiar with the game and the story are struggling With Abby because of the size. >> Will: Yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : And, and, and I have to agree, I do struggle with that. But then Caitlyn delivers a performance like that, I'm like, well, I see why she, they casted her.

33:03 >> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was, yeah, totally get it, man. Originally she was going to be Ellie, but then, things got, when they were going to make this as a movie and then it got delayed and so she aged out. But if she's completely the, the I now talk about you. You asked the question, was I afraid of Ellie? At that moment I was afraid of Abby. I mean, you're right. I mean the, the, the writing and the performance just, you know, like you said when she was listing off the 18 soldiers, the one doctor, just every, you know, I could, you know, I could see why her, why the rest of the fireflies that were with her follow her. Because you know, some people just have that it and she has it right. You know, there's that intangible, like they just have it, you know, you know, they may not be the most physically imposing person, you know, to your point about how the difference between Abby and the game versus a TV show.

34:07 >> Sarah : Right. >> Will: But she just, I, yeah, as that scene was playing out, I was just like, oh man. I, I was like, oh, she's, I, I, I was, yeah, I was fearful. And, and, and she sold it. And she, and the, in the, and the conviction of what she was doing was on full display. And another part of the scene too that I think, was because as you noted, the m, the monologue in, you know, since they did tweak it from the game and made the monologue longer on television. Yeah. you know, I was wondering if there was ever going to be a moment other than Joel saying and all this, you know, shut the up and get on with it already. I was wondering if there was going to be some more pushback, especially whenever she was going into her, you know, her story about the Doctor. But I think at the end of the day, Joel, you know, because you know, again, talk about, you know, referencing what we talked about last week and even and before with season one, you know, Joel knows what's special about Ellie.

35:18 >> Will: And they, and, and so he had, you know, so yes, his motivations in killing those folks was selfish because he didn't want to lose another daughter again. But at this, but he also knows her secret that, you know, that they, they have that other people still clearly don't know about. Because you know, Ellie, in the first episode, after she Got, attacked by the. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so he was still protecting that secret, even, in his last moments. >> Sarah : Right, right. Yeah, that's, that's fair. also, you bring up the saving of Ellie, which is mirrored in this episode by the saving of Abby.

36:08 and. And I like that I saved you. And I wish that there was more of a pause because I really think that that moment when he says that should have landed a bit harder considering in the first episode, the end of the therapy session, the therapist is asking the whole time, what did you do to Ellie? And he says, I saved her. >> Will: Yep. >> Sarah : Now, because that conversation Ellie wasn't present to, we don't know how she would respond to that or what her argument would be, but I think she would have a very similar response to what Abby says. What life? Yeah, you saved me. What, like, good on you. I don't have a life because for five years I've been dragging around this grudge and seeking vengeance on your ass. So what are you talking about?

37:17 Like, thank you. Now I get to kill you and fulfill something. So you, ah, have that. You also, like, she. We learn that after the whole massacre, she walks in and sees her father, brains on the floor. And she was 19 at the time. Ellie is 19 in present day. You have that. But before, the other thing. And, and I said this last week and I don't think people understood me. And I totally get why, but I hope people are starting to follow me a little bit closely now when I say that therapy session is far more important than you even realize. Because there is also the moment in the therapy session where we talk about Eugene, who is a character who. I think we might get a flashback episode. The amount of times we've talked about Eugene in that episode and this episode, I'm just like, did you guys do a random. This isn't a part of the game, but a story that needs like. And we get to bring back Pedro.

38:36 So. But, they bring up, they bring up Eugene because that is the therapist dead husband who Joel had to kill. >> Sarah : Again. And she says, I hate you. And with a lot of venom. Catherine O'Hare at her finest. And a lot of hostility and anger. Very similar to what Abby is doing. The difference is you got an older woman, a military trained person who's like, at all costs I have to do this. So again, you have. In both of those interactions, you have Joel kind of come face to face with people. Like, it's interesting. He carries that torch for Sarah. Right. His Daughter. His biological daughter.

39:36 >> Will: Yep. >> Sarah : He saves Ellie, but by saving Ellie, he also inadvertently pushes her further away from him because of the lie. And. And then you have these two characters who he. He took something away from them. Just like the people in the first episode took Sarah away from him. He took Eugene and Abby's dad away from them. So it's just. It's just really interesting how they are.

40:19 this show and this story deals with not only grief, but also you're going through the nine stages of grief, and some of us get stuck at anger. >> Will: Yeah. Yes, yes. >> Sarah : Because to your point, her. Abby's followers, they did not want to be there. Owen even said he's like, my plan is to convince her out of this. We're not going into Jackson. And then luck has it, but even when we. When we, come back and the golf club is broken and all you see is just her punching Joel in the face and. And you can see the looks on their faces like they're like, this should have ended 20 minutes ago. Ago.

41:14 >> Will: Oh, yeah, yeah. And how they treated, you know, and how they. With Dina as well. I mean, as far as, another putting her to sleep, which is another change from the game through the. To the TV show M. But, But yeah, yeah. And even after. Yeah. but then like when Abby was just like, you know, put her. You know, you know, whenever I think she threatened the, the. The team's medic, you know, to do it or she was gonna like, crack some heads anyway, so. >> Sarah : Oh, yeah. Like Abby was. Do what I say. This is my moment. Don't it up or I'll kill you.

41:55 It's It was done very well and I. I. To kind of go into the siege of it all that parallels, the Joel's death. I kind of. I kind of appreciate how. How we have also this, siege of infected, on Jackson occurred her. Because I don't want to use the word distraction, but it just allowed this episode to have be because they couldn't have stretched the Abby and Joel stuff out any. Any further. Like, I feel like the timing, the length of that whole sequence was.

42:49 Was good. especially just how they inadvertently, because of the patrols get come across her and everything. So you have to have some sort of action balancing it. That's what I'm trying to get out. So. Which we had. Now, I will admit a lot of that time I spent thinking to myself, man, I miss Game of m Thrones season 5 with all of the white walks Walker action beyond the Wall. Because this just took me right back there, Will. >> Will: Yeah, I saw. I saw that in the show notes and I was just like, yeah, seriously. Yeah, yeah, I.

43:33 I laughed because, Because, you know, that definitely didn't watch Drones, but I have, you know, again, seeing cut scenes and stuff. I. You know, you can't be around, without seeing that stuff. and also, I also fault, the orcs in, And. And the Lord of the Rings. >> Sarah : Yep. >> Will: As well. I mean, just any of those big, classic set pieces where there's been, you know, massive, Massive, Siege. Siege, of. Of a. Of. Of a particular place. But. Yeah, but you're right. I mean, I think I didn't like the way. Because, you know, Jackson itself has been a character in the show and. And we, you know, and I really like the way they set things up, you know, with, You know, they had the. Had the meeting, you know, Tommy's, you know, did stay back.

44:18 you know, and they were starting to prep because they had. Had. Had, you know, concerns about some of the, cordyceps. People. Infected people, you know, encroaching. there was. I didn't see. Now, didn't they have the. Didn't they, like, shoot chair? Like. >> Sarah : And then Jesse said something about. Gave a justification for why they were doing that drill in the morning. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : And they stumbled upon something. And, But. But. But it goes. Technically, it goes back to the end of last episode where that. There's that pipe and the network that kind of sounds off the alarm.

45:08 >> Will: Yeah. But, Yeah, because I know they. Because I couldn't remember. M. I know that, because they had the. Obviously the, infected were like, using other bodies to, like, keep themselves warm. and we see that later when, of course, when Abby, like, stumbles upon it whenever she's out in the. In the woods and stuff. And, you know, of course they chase her, but you're, you know, but. And of course, because it is a hive network, whenever they did break the pipe in this episode and it messed with the, things that just set off the alarm. So, of course, yeah, we just. Turks proceeded to have everything happen that we saw happen in this episode. And. And just seeing how the people of Jackson, you know, just. They had the drills as far as, like, going to the sellers and how. How the town really had, like, fortified and was prepared for this moment. but then to see it as it happens and it's as it transpires.

46:05 and. And they get overrun. and. And how the people react, like you know, the flamethrower guys, you know, they were standing there with Tommy, and then, you know, a couple of them ran off. I mean, and. And. And just the tactics that they discussed, like the high, you know, make sure don't be in the, you know, high ground. But of course, that still wasn't safe because the quarter steps still came in. I mean, it was just so many things. So it was like you had two gut punches going on at once, because you. You know, we. Even though we haven't spent that much time in Jackson, we spent enough time to understand the community nature of it and. And. And how. >> Sarah : Yeah, well, I was just gonna say we. I think what they did in this episode was really so. And. And probably why they. One of the reasons why I think the change from the game worked is that you really focus so much on Tommy throughout this entire sequence. And we're connected to Tommy because we've known Tommy since day one. and we know, like, Tommy's important to us because Tommy's important to Joel and Ellie. And, like, you see him. And. And while you were talking about everything, I just kept thinking about the ending where Marie and Tommy in the middle of town square, like, embrace each other. And you see Tommy break down. And it's just like, we prepared. We. We had our stuff, and yet they still got through, and

47:38 there's still all this death and carnage. And it's, I mean, when you brought up the people who ran away, it's. It's. It was. I think why they showed that moment of embrace between Marie and Tommy was really like, to get. Get that idea that these people were prepared, yet they were not prepared for the death and destruction that would occur if this happened. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : so. So, like, the reality of it, and then. And I. And I'm glad that it's not like, the editing of the episode would switch back and forth too much.

48:19 >> Will: Right. >> Sarah : It felt very clean that it's like, no, we're gonna see this whole Jackson sequence through, and then we're gonna start. We're gonna return to the ski lodge. Like, I think that the editing of the different storylines, was done really, really well to not make you get whiplash and to arguably, like, okay, well, that's a gut punch, granted, a small one. And then now we're gonna really just hit you in the face, with it, which. Which is like, some of you.

49:01 I. I hope you realize a lot of people back in 2020 experienced that whole different level, and they still had 20 hours of gameplay left. Yep. >> Will: Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, I'm glad you're right. I'm glad you brought that up too, because, But they did one thing that they did do, to weave the two pieces together was the, the moment, when they were back at the lodge. And then Joel, you know, because they set up, you know, they bring in the blizzard. I mean, everything about it just really, you know, set up really well, because they have the blizzard, the radio, the radio issues. And then, you know, they finally, you know, and then the, and then we have the moment there in the lodge and they're looking back and you're know. And about that point, they have used the firebombs. And so you see the, you know, Joel seeing that, and then, you know, he's at his final moments at the same time. I mean, again, it was just, I think, you know, getting back to like.

50:01 >> Sarah : Yeah, sorry, but I want to point this out. And so not to rub salt in a wound or anything, but he dies without knowing if Tommy lives. >> Will: Yes. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. And, and, and isn't that kind of how Joel started on this whole course? He, yeah, he, he was, he was protecting Ellie, but he only came across Ellie because he was trying to get to Tommy. >> Will: He's trying to get to Tommy. Yeah. >> Sarah : Yeah. >> Will: Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, and, and that's what I was going to say. I mean, and that's why this episode was just so impactful for me, because of all those threads that they pulled together. So, yes, the Joel death was clearly the moment that everybody, at least that many people knew about. Many people did not know about, but people who look like me, who did know about it. But then how they executed it in this medium and how they did it in this episode, that's why it was so. The whole thing. And I didn't really, you know, I really, I didn't want to get too much into it when we were texting Sunday night. That's why this episode just like, got me.

51:12 Because of all the. All, all of this is really at the. Is why it just worked. It just touched me on such a level and where I just like after it was over, I just, like, I just sat in the chair. I didn't cry. I just, just. It was just more, just more of us. Like, wow. It was, it was, it was. You know, whenever we were reviewing paradise and we were talking about episode seven. Spoiler alert for, for folks. but that was another one of those TV shows because of the events that transpire in it. You just sit afterwards and, And, and that's where I was was with this episode. >> Sarah : I do want to say that, my favorite action sequence of this episode and arguably in a long time, because I don't really call out action sequences, was the fence sequence.

52:04 >> Will: Oh, yeah. >> Sarah : I thought the fence sequence was so great. And I'm like, well, thank God she's not any bigger. Because then I couldn't believe. And yes, and yes, during that time I was like, how is she not getting scratched at all? But then again, but just for whatever reason, I really liked Arguably just straight when, when she's running away to climbing up the ladder and then, and then she gets into that fence and you're just like, okay. And then they come and then like I was like, oh my God, we're, we're still stuck in the fence. And arguably it goes. But there's such an intensity about it that I'm like, whoa.

52:47 >> Will: Yeah, it was, I think there was a jump scare in that, in that sequence. And it did, I did have, I did have that, I did jump, during that, that fence sequence because I was like, oh God. Yeah. I mean, this episode, again, it's like works on so many levels that even if, you know, even with the, with the Joel of it all, there's still so many other things that like as you just referenced with the fence sequence, I mean there's just so many things in it that just make it such, just a, just a very powerful hour of television. >> Sarah : I'm assuming because you've, you listened to other things post watching the episode that, what I'm about to say has been known, but I'm curious if you recognized her voice.

53:31 But at the time of watching the episode, did you know that that was Ashley Johnson who played Ellie in the game, singing, that song? >> Will: I did not, but I obviously learned afterwards. Yeah, and that was. Yeah, yeah. And I obviously tried play it earlier, but I didn't, did not tell you with you in our pre production meeting that I was going to do that. >> Sarah : no, no, he did not. And, and it threw me off because I was just worried. >> Will: Yeah, I thought, yeah, I, I, I thought about. Because I remember a comment you shared with me one time wherever you're like, I thought you're gonna play a song, so I was going to surprise you with it tonight.

54:11 >> Sarah : but I, that that touch was really clever and really good for a few different reasons. and I think that the lyrics of that song are just, just so important in terms of the themes and the story that they are telling. Right. Now, so. So it, it's. Yeah, they. Overall, this is a really solid episode. I don't know if it's, I have some qualms about it, but I'm. No, I don't want to spoil. I don't want to get into my qualms about it and be a Debbie Downer. I try to. I'm trying to talk more positively about things. Guys.

54:56 >> Will: No, no, no. I mean, I mean there were some things. Yeah, there were, you know, there, there were some conveniences as always, but. But at the end of the day they, they removed, they removed the plot armor when, when, you know, that, that many, people thought that honestly, given that it was Pedro Pascal and he, you know, he is the reason why a lot many people tune into this show. you know, they, you know, thought to your point, they did not create a bunch of unnecessary plot armor to, you know, to try to keep. Keep their popular, star in the show. To, you know, to again bring another Game of Thrones reference. you know, it's hbo, so, you know, there's the net stark of it all.

55:38 >> Sarah : Yeah, they. Yeah, I wasn't talking about that. But, but yeah, anyways. >> Will: No, no, no, I'm just. I know you're not talking about that. >> Sarah : Yeah, no, no, >> Will: But I was. But that was one of. That was one I was gonna say before we move on. That was one of my. I guess that was when for me that I, I fell into that camp, thinking, oh, they are gonna keep. They're gonna stretch this out to, you know, it's a seven episode season, so yeah, it'll probably happen. But I figured it was gonna happen like episode four or five or, you know, not necessarily like, because again, you know, if only have seen cutscenes and stuff and not played the game. You know, it happens, but you don't necessarily know when it happens in, you know, in, in the game. so. So yeah, that's. That's the danger. That's the, that's the danger of sometimes knowing a little without knowing the context.

56:40 >> Sarah : I only saw cutscenes. >> Will: I know, but. But I'm not saying you. Sarah, I'm saying like, I know you kn. But you know, it's like I'm just like, you're okay, you're sounding like the person I read the book. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. No, yeah. Anything else before we go? >> Will: No, no. Yeah, I think we're good. >> Sarah : I think we're good too. on that note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you. >> Will: Yeah, you can, you can find me on all the socials at, ah, Will and Pope. W I l l mp o l.

57:21 >> Sarah : K. please follow Arc. Please follow me there, too, at S.J. belmont. Please follow our crew on X, formerly known as Twitter at Scene N Nerd on Blue sky at Scene N Nerd. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene, Underscore N, underscore Nerd and Visit our website, www.uh, seniornerdpodcast.com. but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.