Paradise Season Finale Review & Daredevil Born Again Premiere!

0:00 >> Sarah : Greetings nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight, Will? >> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. Hope you're doing well. Happy March. >> Sarah : Happy March. Happy. Women's History Month. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. We, It is Women's History Month and I, look forward to something we started during Black History Month was we started doing some profiles and with notable folks in the entertainment industry and also with the way I was acting, directing in front of the camera, behind the camera. So I found a couple, to start off this month. I found some of the early days of filmmaking, some filmmakers, who wanted to profile this week. And the first one is Alice Key Block. she was a fridge. the world's. The world's first female director. She was actually born in Paris in 1873. And she was She started in the film business as a secretary to the Gamon Film Company. But over just being a part of the around the business and stuff, she was very interested in. And it got inspiration from a cinema graph from the Lumiere Brothers. And she urged a boss of her company to let her use a camera to make a movie of her own. And so she actually created one of the first narrative films called

1:31 La Fe, which was translated to cabbage fairy in 1896. And it was one of 700 films made under that, the studio Gamond's name. But she also developed techniques like split screen matching sound to film. And eventually And she also created the Close Up. So she eventually moved to New York and created her own studios, that was called Select Studios and it was one of the largest ones before Hollywood really, you know, really took over the industry and stuff. So But, yeah, that was. That was one filmmaker I wanted to profile. And then a second one was Margaret, Booth. And she was was one of the first film editors. And she worked on the film Birth of a Nation, which I think many people are familiar with about from D.W. griffith. That was in 1915. and then she just continued to work her way up in the studio system and she did receive an Oscar nomination for Mutiny M on the Bounty, the 1935 film. So those are just a couple profiles wanted to share this week before we dive into paradise and.

2:41 And Daredevil. >> Sarah : Awesome. very cool. what did you have any takeaways from the Oscars? >> Will: honestly, you know, I. Honestly not really. I Didn't, watch Charlie, the films this year or this past? This past year. I, I know a lot of folks are disappointed that, to me, Moore did not win for the, the Substance. I know you watched that one, but. >> Sarah : Honestly, I haven't seen the Substance. >> Will: Oh, I thought you did. >> Sarah : Oh, no, no. >> Will: Oh, I thought. Oh, was it a Nora that you watched? Which one was it? >> Sarah : No, I didn't watch either of those. I watched the Timothy Chalamet one. That's, oh, that's My mom dragged me to. >> Will: Oh, yeah, yeah, I was working my way to that one. Yeah.

3:23 yeah, I knew you watched one of the films. yeah. But, I thought for what some reason, I know we talked about the Substance, so maybe that's why I thought you'll watch that one too. >> Sarah : Yeah. >> Will: Big into body horror. >> Sarah : I, I, I was, I was questioning why it was for Golden Globes nominated under comedy. and musical. Interesting. We're stretching dark humor. I mean, we've always stretched dark humor, but still, still, it's just like. Yeah, yeah, I, it's because I, I, I tend not to watch movies as much these days. Amora is on my list, though, of something once it becomes reasonably priced to rent or it goes on a streaming service I'm about to put on and just check it out because I have heard good things. I think it's, it's the curse of. Well, once you're a winner and the fact that you won, like, the major categories, you swept them, suddenly everyone starts to not like you.

4:23 >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : You're no longer. Yeah, you're no longer the under the dog that you once were. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : My God. But, but also all of the controversy surrounding the competitors, I, I kind of figured it was gonna go that way, and I kind of, I kind of figured. For some reason I knew, I, I had a feeling that Timothy, Timothy wasn't gonna win. and Adrian was gonna take it. and, and, and that's, that's what happened. Just. And, and having seen a complete unknown, I, he's good. He's not great.

5:09 I know in, his, I think it was the SAG Actor award he won. He mentioned in a speech how he's on the path for greatness. And I, I understand that, and I can see that in the works, that the projects he's choosing to do and all of that, but that was not the role. That was not. Because all anyone will compare you to is Joaquin Phoenix in. And that's a very hard act to follow. and it's Arguably a much more interesting story than a complete unknown. So. Yeah, it, I, I again did not follow as much. I did. I did.

5:51 I always, watch Kieran Culkin's speeches because they're hilarious. And I love how, his wife really told. Said that out loud. And he has witnesses that if, they'd try for four, as long as he won an Oscar. >> Will: Well, there you go. >> Sarah : Yeah, he won the Emmy. And he was like, well, now. Now we're gonna try for three. And apparently that same night she said, well, we'll go for four if you win an Oscar. And then the next year he did, so. Wow. >> Will: Wow. Well, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, really, I guess, really the only thing I did watch as far as far as nominated films, I did watch Wallace. I finally did watch Wallace and Gromit, Avengers, Most Foul, which was nominated in the, animated, category, which I did see that, flow.

6:40 Won that one. But. But beyond. Yeah, so beyond that, you know, I was going to try to watch Wicked, but like, you, when I, When I went to Amazon to, to rent it, it was still, you know, know, very, very like, I'll just wait. I'll just wait till it comes down or goes to get on the normal. Get to a normal stream, you know, or there's a. >> Sarah : Something. Because those, those renting prices, you're just like, might as well buy it. M. I could. I could have gone to the theater. I don't understand here, like, exactly. It's so bizarre. But. But I think they want you to buy it. So they're gonna have high. And the fact that they're being released, being available on those services, granted for a fee, like such a short time after they were in theaters. I mean, remember in the years of Blockbuster, you had to wait a good six, four months until you could. And. And all of that.

7:46 So. But, I, I keep. I can't. For the last few weeks, I kept wanting to bring up this show, but kept forgetting until right after we stopped recording. But I did recently get into the show on Paramount plus called School, Spirits. >> Will: Yeah, I've heard about the show. Haven't watched it, but yeah, I don't. >> Sarah : Think it's your type of show. And, And I just say that knowing. Well, I, I think it's a good show. I mean, it kept me on. I binged the first season. the second season at that time had already started and then I got caught up and it just wrapped its second season yesterday. And it's funny, When I was watching the finale this morning, I was thinking to myself, I'm like this is the last episode.

8:38 How are they gonna go to season three? I'm not sure. But they, they figured out a way very cleverly, albeit I kind of figured that was gonna happen. and, and it's surpr. I think why I got hooked is because I started watching it by just having it on in the background. because to get through those first two episodes of studying the premise of this girl who's dead and, and finds herself kind of in a limbo at her school where she died among other ghosts who have died at that same school. There's there that's just this surface iceberg plot explanation, about the show not going into so many details. and then I started finding myself paying gradually as episodes went on more and more attention to things because they did a very good job about. Because her best friend who's still alive can see her. There's kind of a link and you see through her and these other ghosts the morning of the. The loss of, of youth and And also like that grief of their own like un unfulfilled life versus also the grief of those they leave behind. and

10:09 so when they started tapping into that I, I got it piqued my interest and they did some very good through the, the people who are alive versus dead. Very good parallels that were going on. So Yeah, I would. I was surprised that I, I found myself as engaged in that. And. And arguably season two is just as good as season one. So there wasn't like a drop off or anything or it didn't get significantly better. But, but yeah, I, I think it's a, it's a decent show to, to binge get caught up on or even to wait until it's over and then binge the whole thing because I really don't know how many seasons it's got in it. I don't know.

11:01 >> Will: Fair enough, fair enough. I Yeah. As far as other shows that I, I finally did start Reacher season three and And it's like. It's very good. It's very good. I'm about. I'm a still. Still gotta watch week five. But I've watched up to week four and really have enjoyed it. you know it's, it is what it is. I mean you know that definitely, you know we jokingly call it dad TV and it's definitely not. But but the, the overall storyline, and the issues that he is getting into, this season. Is. It is. It's good. It really is good. And I swear, Alan Richton, each. Each season, he gets larger.

11:44 Yeah. >> Sarah : Yeah, that. I. I did see some. Some interviews with him and. And stuff, and I would agree with that. >> Will: And there's a dude in the show this season that's even bigger than him, and it's just like, okay, yeah, yeah. But, But yeah, it's great. I mean, if you're a fan of. Fan of Reacher, I would say, you'll enjoy this season. And. And I think over. Actually, I think it's off to a better start than. Than last season's, to be honest. But, But yeah, but, it is good. And, continue. We'll continue to stay on that, dad. Tv. Bob. there. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. Alan, Richter apparently would enjoy hearing you say it's better than season two because he was not happy with season.

12:32 What. I understand. And I'm like. I'm like, thank you for being honest. Yeah. >> Will: That's one thing I do appreciate about him. He is all. He is very candid and very honest. whenever you see him on interviews and podcasts and stuff. >> Sarah : Yeah. Ah, that one with Michael Rosenbom, like, wow. Y. All right, well, that brings us to the big topic tonight. the Paradise Season one finale. The man who Kept the Secrets. Xavier and Robinson race to find President Bradford's m. Murderer before it's too late. All right, well, what did you think about this finale?

13:13 >> Will: I loved it. I. I really did it. this show, really, it. All the. All the clues, all the breadcrumbs, even down to the cheesy fries. I've shared it before that there's nothing that is like a throwaway in this, In this show. And to me, it delivered. Even. Even with. When we do find out the one mystery as far as who murdered Cal, the other part, I felt, But part of me felt like that was by the end of the season. That was sort of a secondary mystery to the. To the primary one, in my opinion, as far as, like, what was. What. What. What. When. Especially after we get the episode with whenever, President Bradford does find a tablet and starts, you know, keeping the journals and putting all the pieces together.

14:05 That. That was, to me, like the bigger. Bigger thing that was going on here. But, But yeah, I really. Yes, it was. You know, it was definitely a different change of pace with, you know, given how how intense and everything episode seven was. But I. I was fine with how this episode ended and And I'm glad that, you know, of course, we do know that there is a season two that's coming. And, so I'm glad that we don't end, you know, with the cliffhanger, with. With an unresolved story. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah.

14:46 Yeah, I. I have to be very careful with how I say this and articulate this because I don't want there to be confusion because I have seen a lot of reactions to this season finale. I am not mad that it was the Librarian. I have no, like, the motivation. It makes sense. I can tell you the exact scene, the exact moment where I suddenly was like, oh, I don't like this. And it came where it started to become too contrite, and the. The episode lost me. and it was the moment when he had already knocked out Xavier and was telling him the story. the story that just went on and on and on. And as it went on, it started to lose me more and more and more. Not because, like, well, if we were paying attention, we would have recognized.

15:50 We could have potentially recognized him because we had seen the shooter in the first episode, but it was more like, as soon as he started, I was like, why didn't it take you three years? And so the exact moment when it really. I was like, I. I don't. I don't think this was the right move is the moment when he explained why, Like, I appreciated the explanation of why he, How he got comfortable and how he felt like he deserved. Like, that made sense. But the moment he said. And then. And they show the flashback where Cal's in his robe walking into the library and just asking him where the music stuff, suddenly that triggered some ptsd.

16:39 It just. That just that bothered me. and. And it didn't get any better because even, like, it just. It just annoyed me that all we got for the explanation why, at that random night when it just so happened that the cameras were off and that all, like, everything started becoming way too. Oh, well, that's. That's a, a MacGuffin or a shortcut or just a simplistic way to explain, like. And the scene, this. The way that the scene of the attack, the piano music, it just didn't hit for me. And then at the end with Xavier and Samantha, at no point did I think Presley was dead. At no point was I like, oh, I like, the stakes weren't there for me, probably because I knew there was going to be a Season two.

17:43 There was. So I just. I. I understand. And I'm Glad it worked for you. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : But from that point forward I was just like okay. And I'm not saying it was a bad finale. I have critiques and it's more, I didn't like the pacing. I've seen worse. Let's be honest, we've seen a lot worse. But it, it also just there were things that like I just, it didn't, it felt too contrite. I have more complaints but I'll let you add in some good thoughts.

18:24 >> Will: Yeah, no, I, I, I mean you know I've seen the complaints about being a librarian or anti climatic or And so, so what, what made it work for me was again the setup. >> Sarah : Yeah. >> Will: And, and especially because it ah was really. I ah guess it just really got into the larger theme. Some of the larger themes that we've seen throughout this season. >> Will: With, with you know again and you know with you know these workers who will never get the benefit of being able to but you know get the benefit of if and when this incident does occur, which obviously it found it does, they will be left out.

19:16 And, and, and, and and it gets to like for example but for Xavier being on the President's detail, he wouldn't have got in and, and, and, and what's so special about you know obviously you know you got the the billionaire. So for me it was just overall larger themes that like really made the motivation and then also just the relationship that Trent built with all the other workers so that such that whenever they do discover the toxin and and, and and everything it just, it was very believable for him to, to do, to, to be the, the killer. And, and it made sense too. Just I think overall I like the fact that they went, they zigged instead of zagged because you know all along you know we both were like very spiraling. I had the crazy, you know I had to, I was on, on the train of it was a power play by Sinatra. That's why she was trying to like you know she was the motivation behind it and stuff. So I appreciated the fact that they went in the direction that they did tying it to the some of the more larger themes that that the show was, was exploring throughout you know, throughout the season.

20:33 >> Sarah : Yeah, I, I, I, I agree to an extent. Like the, the, the setup of Trent makes sense and I completely enjoyed the how it connected to the have and the have nots. And it just goes back to last week and the FBI or the Secret Service agent who Xavier is like saying Go here, do this, do that. As soon as they are about to get on the helicopter, he's like, oh, no, no, you stay here. And it's just, it's that same idea of m. Like, well, why do you get. Why am I. I'm supposed to. Like, this is my job too. It's, it's a very uncomfortable and unsettling thing. However, and, and maybe this is just because with the difference of, of our history with the showrunner, they, they use the same composer from this as us. And it's very clear because I was distracted during that whole opening, opening stuff because that score is so reminiscent of. This is a score. Oh, my God, it's uncanny. And I was just like, why, why, why, why are you, why are you choosing this, to go? Like, I. It's a very, It's a very interesting association that I've never really had it. It would be like if they took a score from Star wars

22:06 and, like, played it over top, and you're just like, this isn't the same world. It's not. Why are you. This is weird. Or, or even Star Trek. Like, suddenly you're watching something and, and you hear. And you're just like, wait a second. What? So I, I, I, know it's the same composer, but I'm like, dude, you're good. Why are you pulling from that? that, that case, that box is closed. Okay, so, so, and, and I completely. Like, again, I'm not mad it was the librarian, because I wanted it to. They were not. Like, nobody could predict. Nobody could really. You had to be really looking in order to see it. You really had to, like, go frame by frame. And so I applaud them for all that. I just don't appreciate the lack of motivation for why it took three years for him to finish the job.

23:13 M. That's it. That's like, like the one thing. Yeah. Like, that day, like, there was. There. There just seemed to be it. So it was so. It felt so random. It was like, okay, so then one day you just woke up on the wrong side of the bed and went and murdered someone. Cool. Cool. Cool. >> Will: Yeah. Well, I mean, that, that, that, yeah. And I, I get. I can totally see that. And I, I, and I. And I think that's a fair, fair criticism. that. But, But I think that. I think that's the whole. I think that's the, the point, though. I think it is the random, the randomness of it that, you know, he's gotten very comfortable here and then just you know, but just one day, it, it just, you know, that, that.

24:02 That feeling of just thinking about Adam and, and, and everything, and it just. He just snapped and. And he, decided that was the data. I'm going to finish the job that I didn't do years, you know, years earlier. >> Sarah : Yeah, because, I mean, if he had, also really been studying this world, he would have figured out that Sinatra is actually the one he should have gone and killed, not Cal. >> Will: Yeah, well, there's that too. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. That, that wasn't. That's another thing where it's just like, again, it's just that length of time. That length of time. That's a very long time, arguably. So.

24:44 >> Will: Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, and, you know, you know, I felt too just like with the, with the play, on the, the title and, and also just in the fact that Peter Lawford, was. Was married to a Kennedy, you know, he was Bobby Kennedy's and JFK's, brother in law. So, you know, so I, you know, so I was trying, you know, so whenever, When I saw that title and, and thinking about, you know, the book in the library and stuff, and of course he, Whenever Bradford was trying to, you know, make the mixtape and stuff, you know, it, it just, I think that's, you know, again, it's just the randomness of Assassin, you know, Assassins, because, you know, you do have, you know, you have that Kennedy tie there too. And I may be reaching there, but it was just something that was just, you know, just kind of daunt. It just kind of struck me, that, you know, that we, that we. We had had those, Those themes in there as well.

25:43 And also Kane, you know, you know, pulling out the Rat Pack reference to, to, you know, with nicknaming everyone way back in the, you know, episode one or two. So, you know, that was, you know, it was just. It was all those, like I said, all, all those little things throughout each. To this point is what for me, I think, to your fair, fair points there, I think it was just the payoff, I think, because it's just so. It's not every day you get a series that just pays off those types of breadcrumbs that they, they sprinkle throughout the season and, and not only where they're used, but they're used so well. So I thought it was just the execution of it that was really, just really, got me. And then even to the point where whenever Sinatra and Jane were having a text conversation about, about Presley Yeah. You know, because Jane is. You know, they did such a. Such a good job of just, like, creating this, like, psychopath with. With Jane and. And being the enforcer that I, you know, I, like, I was. I was react. I reacted so. So much when the text messages are going so much my w. She like, she had gone upstairs and she, like, checked on me just like, are you okay? I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. I'm just watching paradise, so.

27:04 Yeah. >> Sarah : So they got you hook, line and sinker. >> Will: Yeah, they were. Yeah, I was just. I was just completely, like, bought into this. >> Sarah : We would have seen stuff. We would have seen stuff. There's no way, like, it just, Yeah, they. The way that whole exchange went down, I. I couldn't believe. I was like, no, this. She ain't gonna do anything for Presley because she's not gonna get the Wii. So she. She, like, she's smart. I don't think. I. I wouldn't say necessarily that they did a great job about building Jane as an enforcer. They. My whole thought while watching the Jane part of this episode unfolding is just thinking back at all the times Will brought up on the podcast about how Gabriella is the wild card. And I'm like, she. He should have been talking about Jane.

28:01 Nothing. Jane's wild card. >> Will: Yeah, but. Yeah, now, I mean, it would benefit a hindsight, but also, Well, because. Yeah, because of what happened in this episode. Janie's clearly the wild card, but. >> Sarah : Well, but he also killed Billy. Yeah, she. That. That is. That's my point. I think that. I don't think it's necessarily that they did a good job building her as an enforcer. They did a good job about utilizing her early enough. So you have that notation that she's working for Sinatra, then putting her on the sidelines and then circling back to her while at the same time leaving a character to further flesh out in a later season. Yeah, yeah, because. And. And that's the kind of leads into why, part of this whole Sinatra, Jane and Xavier and Presley, that didn't. The stakes weren't there for me just because they had spent this whole season and even in this episode, it's like Sinatra being a monster and this and that. And I've been on the defendant, Samantha.

29:21 >> Will: okay, you've been the Matt Burdock for sure. >> Sarah : Like it was. It's interesting. She, She did. She. It was clear to me that she didn't want something bad happened to Presley. She didn't. She didn't want that. She needed the leverage to get what she wanted. But she's a mother of her own, so it wouldn't seem right, considering what we're led to believe about this idea of paradise stemming from the death of her own son. Like. Like, there's something. And. And it just left me with this question, especially with her interactions with, Gabriella at the beginning and towards the end of this episode is. There's this, like, this constant. Like, you don't know what I've done. I've done horrible things, and I'm a monster and all this stuff.

30:11 And I'm thinking to myself, okay, so, yeah, technically, you sent Jane to kill Billy, but we understand why. I don't know if that makes you a monster. Technically. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. You, You. You had Billy kill those. Those other people. Is that the only thing? Like, I. That's where I'm kind of, like, from what we've learned, those are the two things that she's done. I mean, yes, she was a part of the creation of paradise. So to Trent's point, paradise was built on the graves of people, but she. She was one of many. I mean, Cal's dad is also at, fault there, and so is that the architect, and so is Gabriella.

31:01 >> Will: So. >> Sarah : But. But my point being, I just. Towards the end, they kept saying that to, where I'm just thinking, the math ain't math. Then for me, I need to understand. I feel like there should be something more, and yet I don't know if there is. >> Will: Yeah, well, I. I agree with you that you were vindicated in the. In the. That she's not a complete monster when, you know. Yeah, she was trying to use Presley as. As leverage. But at the end of the day, she, you know, she. She did try to. She did text Jane and be like, look, you know, stop. You know, stand down, you know, but. And then. And then with the whole. Over the whole thing with the Wii and, you know, you know, call it. Are you crazy? You know, you don't call a crazy because.

31:49 >> Sarah : So, yeah, yeah. I mean, as soon as Jane fired, and stepped into focus, I even said her line out loud. Like, two minutes before she said it. I was like, I should have given her the weight like you should have. And. And I will say, because I always have to call it out like, this has nothing to do. My criticism about the stakes in that. That scene between Sinatra and Xavier has nothing to do with the performances because the performance is spot on. Yeah. >> Will: Yeah. And honestly, the performances, actually, they're so spot on and is so well acted. And that I think it covers over some of the things that we're, that we're discussing tonight, quite frankly.

32:35 >> Sarah : For Will, not for me because they stuck out like a Thor. Yeah. >> Will: Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, I agree. I mean, yeah, there are. If you, if you do stop. I mean, hell, I was just thinking last week with the with, with Xavier and not with the cell phone. I was just like, wait a minute, you know this, you're. You're a secret Service agent. There's thing. You know, there's a thing called a gets card that will allow for you to like get over. You know, get a, get a telephone line. So. Yeah, so I mean I could like nitpick like that kind of stuff for sure. >> Sarah : But yeah, I had about those kind of things. So. >> Will: Yeah, so I mean, but, yeah, but But that being said, yeah, speaking of, this just with this episode and Trent and also Maggie with the I did like the. I did like how when the and Robinson were, you know, what Rob.

33:31 The. You know, obviously the Robbie was day drinking and the Robinson went over to like help out and stuff. So I did like the way that they figured out that, that she persuaded her to like look at the files and, and they figured out that at least while the Trent was being expository on with Xavier, they just used good old fashioned storytelling and sleuthing to figure out that Maggie was. Shouldn't have been in there either. With, with the. When they looked at the records and realized that the person who should have been there had a peanut allergy. which again was this a great use to like pulling the cheese fries back into like what, what, what? >> Sarah : You know what was crazy was there was a scene like five, five to ten minutes before that whole thing unfolded where they, it was like they were speaking to the public, like, stay in your houses or something like that. And there was a shot of the diner and the girls there eating cheese fries. I swear, I swear to God, I thought in my head while watching that moment and looking at that actress eat those cheese fries. I'm like, how did you get into paradise?

34:42 Randomly thought. And it was nothing. I was just like, how, how. What was the selection process for some of these people? >> Will: Yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : See it's, it's funny you bring that up because as much as I did appreciate the whole like girl tag team and the day drinking all that. What. And this is where the episode like, would I say it, it's contrary. Like, like they, they figure that out at the same amount of time while Xavier is, like, at the. Going back to the. The, bedroom and retracing all the steps and finding the mixtape that. I want to know how long Cal's been dead because, man, poor Jeremy, he could have had that mixtape the whole time. Whatever. It's a side note, but. And then it takes them, what. I want to know how long exactly to find, like, the. That nut allergy within, like, 25,000. Is it 25, 000 files? Like, there's some conveniences where I'm just like, oh, my God.

35:53 So. But, my favorite part of this episode, and my favorite line of this episode, of course it comes from Cal, is you are the things you love. And if that's the case, then you are me. Jeremy, if you don't like this world that I built, that fixed it. I really appreciate that ending because of the. The. Another iconic moment that happens earlier in the season between the grandfather, the grandson, and the dead father. Like, the way they have, subtly dealt with grief in that complicated dynamic.

36:40 and. And you've seen the parallels between father and son and father and son. Again, like. Like, the. The execution of that was so good. And I didn't really see that coming until at the end. And then he looks up and he sees all these people walking towards him that, like, yeah, Jeremy, whether he likes it or not, he is his father's son. And so a lot of the reason why Cal was able to go as far as he did in politics. Yeah. Yeah, he has a rich daddy, but it's because of that charm that he explains to Xavier in the pilot episode. And I think Jeremy has some of that. And I'll be at probably a better head on his shoulders, so.

37:27 So. And a better moral compass. So I like how. I can appreciate how we knew Xavier was gonna eventually leave and go and find Terry, but I like how they still opened some. Some doors for stories to still be told at paradise as well. While. While, For some reason Xavier has to go alone. I don't. I. I don't understand that part, but he has to go alone. And, I'm not saying he should take the kids. That's not what I'm saying at all. But he does have other friends. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : So. So I. I just. That sets up a season where you're gonna be getting Xavier on his journey while paradise is.

38:13 Is figuring out things on their own and. And leaves more, doors. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. I did like. I did, like, with. With Xavier, You know, bringing back the whole hard decision that he made with his father to have, Him you mandatorily, retired. and. And also to bringing up the fact that again, Xavier, is a palate himself. And as you know, it was that tension between him and his father. Like why, you know. You know, his dad wanted him to sort of, you know, be it. Be a good outline. But Xavier, I think is. I think his eyesight was.

38:55 Was bad if I recall. Which, Why he couldn't. Why he couldn't be, Couldn't. Couldn't go that route. But I mean, but he still was able to get his pilot's license. But But yeah, I just really liked how they pull that back again from earlier in the season. And. And of course, you know, I think Xavier's still, you know, feeling that he feels comfortable going alone. and I agree he probably should have had someone go with him, but. But at the same time also feels comfortable leaving the kids back. And. And Because you know, at least from his sense of. Of things, everything is in paradise. It's the safest place for him to be right now. and. And also just he, you know, I think he.

39:38 Presley that. I thought that was a good moment between the two of them whenever he was looking. Sitting there at the table, looking at the book and you know, seeing that all the notes that Kyle left behind, as far as the >> Will: With the map and. And shout out to the Dewey Decimal System. Yeah, because I know we were all like thinking, you know, we. We thought it was like a. Probably registration for a plane or something like that. Never, never thought that it was like. It was like, you know, the Dewey. The Dewey decimal card for the For the, you know, code for the For the book there in the library. Which I thought was another great touch. But But yeah, like I said, I mean, I think you're right. It definitely with Jeremy's story, you know, given that Sinatra is still alive, there and And also the other characters that Are still there in paradise, you know, in the bunker will you know, definitely will next season. We'll, you know, get to To. To two parallel stories maybe and hope hopefully they'll figure out some ways too to have some flashbacks to To. To Cal and Billy too. Because I mean James Marston was just. Just great in this. In this show and hopefully we can see some more of him and Maybe you know, especially if Kane is still there. So maybe it may be some things with his dad.

40:54 As far as we just learn more about. Especially, since they introduced, you know, the. The making of this bunker, and there's still some stories and stuff that. That they can, you know. >> Sarah : Yeah, there are a lot of stories to be mined. >> Will: yeah, so. So, yeah, we know there's three seasons. Fogelman, did say that, you know, season two has been. Is done. >> Sarah : It's been confirmed. And. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, it's confirmed, though the show is that it's written because he actually. He's like. He's like us where we. He's like, I'm a TV viewer too, and I don't want long breaks in between seasons. So, I think he mentioned an article deadline that they're planning, on starting production in about. About a month or so.

41:42 So it's very, you know, so with the goals having season two come back in early 2026. So, so hopefully they will be able to stay on that schedule. >> Sarah : All right, well, that brings us to Daredevil. Born Again, season one, Heaven's Half Hour. Long time ravels. Matt Murdock on Wilson Fisk attempt to move past their darker Personas to serve New York, but their past resurface, reintroducing the world of Daredevil, which. And actually, this episode can easily be summed up, in a toast that is made during the opening scene, which says to Cherry, may you be in heaven a full half hour before the devil knows you're dead.

42:30 Will, what did you think about this episode? >> Will: So what did I think about this episode? So I will. You know, it's well known that I, was. I did not watch the, They only watched a handful of the Netflix shows. but it was very accessible for me, and I really. I have to say, I really, really liked it. I really did. I, you know, we. We. We've seen. Even though, you know, the show has been. It's a continuation of the Netflix series, not. Not a reboot or anything. And. And we've seen both Fisk and. And Matt, in the mcu. I mean, you know, we've got them in Spider man and. And, King and, Echo.

43:13 She, Hulk. Yep. Hawkeye. So we've. We've seen, you know, we've seen the characters. And so I, you know, so I went into it like, okay, I. I appreciated the fact that even though I didn't. I'm not like you who has the, you know, deep ties with this show from. You know, I. I was able. I was like, okay, I could fill in And I was, I was able to, I enjoyed it. You know, they set things up and, and it did it in a, in a way that was interesting and and I really, really got, you know, at the end of episode one, the, the scene there in a diner. But Fisk and Murdoch was everything I needed. Okay. I'm like, I'm on board.

44:00 >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. The I mean the, this first episode, really the best parts is it's, it's their book ended perfectly because you have the opening, I think people have said it's a 15 minute long scene. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Open where you have, you're re introduced and it is fully a continuation. I mean you have, you have Foggy, you have Karen and you have Matt hanging out at Josie's and, and life is normal until next thing you know it's not. And it turned out to be a setup and, and Bullseye kills kills Foggy. And you, you go through and it has the, I can appreciate how they were like, oh, we're, we're making sure people know this is a continuation. So we're gonna do a lot of one like long shots, a lot of fighting in narrow spaces and, and going up stairways. And back when the show was on Netflix, and I was covering it up, it was funny to me I guess when they, when they got to the roof because about half, like when season two of Daredevil starts, there's, there's a pretty iconic moment with Punisher and which led to some comments about how like, well, they're talking Daredevil because they're always talking about people being on

45:32 roofs. I swear to God, in the Netflix Netflix Defender universe, I mean the amount of times you will, you will spend on rooftops, whether it's your heroes or your bad guys. And it's just like if you ever go to New York City, just always be looking up. Okay. Always look up. but, but yeah, I, I, I think the, just the execution of that and, and, and no need to explain to anyone or feel like you have to explain why that death is so, so harmful for the psyche of Matt Murdock. And and the, and it sparks, it has for it pushes him to retreat unlike anything else that could happen. and, and he does hang it up and we one year later we get re endorsed reintroduced to Matt Murdock and, and things are going fine until, until somebody else returns from the shadows. And that would be Fisk. But yeah, that scene, the, the diner scene, it's just because I'm Glad we got them speaking within the first episode.

47:00 >> Will: Y. >> Sarah : And then to have a full blown one on one conversation. And also just perfect representation for why these two are ideal foils for one another in terms of. And just the, the. You know, I love. I prefer more of a verbal sparring than a physical sparring. Sparring. Like the verbal sparring just was so great. I couldn't keep up with all of the lines. I mean. And then at the end you have. Fisk is like, I will not tolerate men running around in silly costumes. And then he's like, I love a man who can rise above their nature. Good luck with that.

47:45 >> Will: And also throughout the red meat too, that you know, you know, call. What to call out the Spider man too. Because again, just the acknowledgment meant that, you know, with the historic other foil of Wilson Fisk with Spider man too. So yeah, that was, that was Chef's kiss as far as that moment and for me as well. And you know, another thing too, like I said, I don't have the history with the show like you do and the relationships with Karen and Foggy and Matt, but yeah, it was. I'm glad just to get back, just take it out of universe and get into production universe for a moment. You know, there was a lot of discussions about this show and, and Feige and a team realizing that, you know, and a lot of fans were worried that when it was going to go into Disney plus that it was going to lose its edge. And. And I would like to hear your thoughts of whether or not it is lost as edge and there's only two episodes. But, but your familiarity with it I would like to hear.

48:40 But I'm glad that they went the route that they did. Scrapped whatever they had originally shot use recycled what they could have and then brought back Karen and Deborah annual. And. And the actor plays Foggy because that all that was the right creative decision to go to make this show work for. For people like me who, who are probably, you know, familiar with Daredevil Matt more so from seeing them m. In the mcu and also just. And people. And you're listening to people like you talk about it, the, The Netflix show. I mean I watched some of the. I did watch some of the other Netflix shows as far as, Jessica Jones and, And Luke Cage. But but yeah, I, I thought that was definitely from a. From a storytelling standpoint and I. As soon as Foggy, when he, you know, whenever he had the little nod, what was the Line. I'm paraphrasing here, but, you know, acknowledge the, the, you know, the past. But, looking for. Looking, you know, look to the future or, you know, that's a scent it was right.

49:39 >> Sarah : Whenever they were talking about. >> Will: Yeah. Nostalgia. >> Sarah : Nostalgia is a reference to the past and hope for the future. >> Will: Future. Yeah. When you said that, I was like, I was like, oh, he's dead. >> Sarah : So, I didn't expect anyone to die in that scene. But as it went on and, and clearly when he got shot, so. And I'm sure comic book nerds are going to come after me for saying this, but. And I, and I'm not a comic book nerd. I've never read the books. But from what I understand, because this was brought up back when Daredevil first premiered on Netflix about this run this series, and I believe it's called Born Again. And the whole premise is that Bullseye was given an order from Fisk to kill Karen.

50:32 So, so when, when, When Foggy went down, I actually was like, oh, God, Karen, they're gonna do it. This is why, this is why at the beginning, when casting announcements, like I remember you telling me, yeah, Foggy's. Foggy's gonna return for Daredevil. And I'm like, well, Karen has to come. Yeah. And then. Yeah, yeah. And then. Well, no, there was a delay. I remember this. Like, I feel like even Bernthal was announced before Karen was. There was a delay, but now I'm starting to figure out, like, Karen's gonna have a bigger part and they could still do this. They could very well. I mean, seasons two already been greenlit that, that they actually reserve that Karen's death to the end because we all know I'm all, I'm not, I'm not a Matt. Karen person. I may. I met Karen and Frank person, so, so do not Disney plus Feige, if you do not allow me some sort of closure for this romantic entanglement, this thing that never was, I will turn off my subscription or at least suspend it for a month.

51:48 Okay. Okay. But anyways, so, so going into it, especially when I figured out it was Bullseye who was attacking, I was like, okay, okay, I, I, I get it. to go back to your original question about the whole, does it still retain an edge? Not fully. Not fully. I could, I could definitely tell, especially the Korri there. There was some weird CGI happening at moments during that opening sequence there. There's some interesting editing choices just because, I mean, we're two episodes in. It's Hard for me to tell if I'm okay with it or not. I don't like the long shots. It felt like there were a lot of long shots. It felt like there were a few very extended, montages and just a lot of time of like us standing on a roof with, with Fisk looking down. And I'm like, when will this sequence end? We get it.

53:01 Like, I'm like. I'm like. It went on long enough. I could think to myself, okay, so are we gonna get a wide shot where he clearly is looking at Matt? Because Matt's looking up. So bizarre. I just. So I, and I. And I think it will never have that same edge because part of the reason why Daredevil season one, the reaction was, is because it was very fresh. And albeit this is. I mean it's been 10 years and based on recent Mar. MCU television Ah, series, this is fresh and different. But it's also. It's in because of where it comes from. It's never going to be like as fresh.

53:53 If that makes sense. >> Will: Yeah, that makes sense. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't, I don't. As long as you have Charlie Cox as Matt Murdock and Vincent D'Onofaro as Fisk. Like, that's, that's, that's. That's what you need. Okay. And then you got Bernthal come in as, as Punisher. Like the casting is really on point with this. And, Yeah. And, and. And so as we talked about, or I think we mentioned that one point, Fisk. M. Fisk's whole part is. Is very similar where.

54:35 Because we watched Echo, albeit we forgot about Echo, but we did watch it at one point in time. We do know that Fisk has been out of commission for a while because Echo put him in his place. Children these days. Yeah. And. And so he comes back only for. For Vanessa to. To be Queen Bee and. And there be some trouble in paradise for them. and. And then we. And he. He. Because he found peace or something, clarity, he wants to go legit. I. So to move along to episode two optics.

55:19 Yeah, I, I find it while watching it. I found both episodes because I watched them both back to back same. I, I found the second episode to be interesting how both of these characters are. They are trying to maintain that Persona who they presented themselves as in the diner. Right. And you see the, you see especially with Matt because he's our main character. The build up and the clear like, oh, you're going a bit sideways. Okay. And Just it's, it's like a tea teapot kettle during the final, sequence, which we will get there.

56:04 But, I really appreciated the subtlety with Fisk because throughout the episode you, you're like, yeah, yeah, fill that hole. Okay. Yeah, yeah, they elected you mayor, not governor. So I don't know if you have as much power as you think you do, but you fill that hole, sir. and then leading up to this weird random venting about, about a sandwich and, and then, and then you see him lift the paper and it's like, oh, you're blackmailing. Okay, yeah, Fisk. Okay. >> Will: Yeah. I like that whole sequence there because, especially because you set, you know, you have everything set up with, with the police chief and, you know, with the funeral and with, you know, with the tiger, white, tiger, being wrongfully accused.

56:55 But, you know, obviously, you know, you know, NYPD B is you know, thinking that, you know, he's a cop killer. And and so, yeah, so we get that. And then, but, but also even I guess maybe going further back too, just him just learning the trappings of being a mayor because like the conversation he had with his campaign consultant, and the chief of staff and just, you know, they were, you know, the whole optics and, and of it all and just thinking, you know, as far as, him trying to go straight and, and, and, and just figuring, you know, and the whole conversation.

57:38 Yeah. >> Sarah : You know who he reminded me of? Especially in the second episode? He reminded me of our good old friend Oswald. >> Will: Yes, yes, yes. I was getting the whole time. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. I was just thinking about how the fact that at the end of Penguin, it's about Oswald getting into political power and how Fisk is like, Fisk is the MCU version of that. I mean, granted, Oswald has an Oedipus complex and short syndrome, and then Kingpin is like a huge monster beast. but, but it was, it, it was interesting that both of them have this parallel journey of rising from the up the ranks in the criminal world and then setting their sights on so much more.

58:36 the, the bigger political game. Like, like politics is very similar to crime, let's just be honest. And, and I think that's why the, the, the comic book writers were able to set that trajectory for some of these iconic villains. >> Will: For sure. Yeah, yeah, that's a, that, that the. I, I, I was as I was watching the episode. I'm glad you m. Brought up Penguin because I was getting that same vibe as well, with, with the aesthetic and also just the the Fisk in particular. you know, and also just a real, particular real world person too. But won't go there. But, Yeah, but yeah, you're not shy.

59:17 >> Sarah : About that at all. >> Will: Not at all. Not at all. But, yeah, but can we. >> Sarah : Well, let's, let's go back to, to what you've mentioned before about the the framing of White Tiger. Because what, What I really enjoyed was that there was a mention. Not only a mention, because they mentioned a lot of other New York vigilantes crime fighters in the first episode, but they more. More specifically showed an image of White Tiger and then never spoken about again. Right? >> Will: Nope. Right. >> Sarah : Fast forward into episode two and, and we see this guy who's trying to separate these two and then next thing you know, he throws someone in front of a train. Okay.

1:00:06 It just happens. Okay. It happens to the best of us. And then, and then we. Cherry discovers the White Tiger outfit. I can appreciate, like we didn't need. There. There was. There was either you got it or. And you understood it just like Cherry did or you didn't like there. And I appreciate that. I don't. I don't feel like they dumbed any of that down. and I also like the fact that Cherry is introduced in the very first episode in the bar and he's talking about the vigilantes because he's a cop. And he at the end of that sequence discovers Matt being Daredevil and one year later, just who he has become to Matt.

1:00:58 >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : and as the investigator as it just. I, I really appreciate that quick and seamless relationship development for the viewer. Yeah, especially a new relationship and even ah, what's her name? Chris. Christine. >> Will: Yeah, the other lawyer. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah. And. And even the girlfriend, who. Who is now doing marriage counseling for the fist. I mean, God help her. God help her. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, that's the other part. So I did like too, especially like in episode. Episode two with the With When Matt was defending, White, Tiger and And just the, the legal tactics that were going on as far as.

1:01:52 Because I know that was one of the things too that they were. They were said they were going to highlight in, in this continuation of the, of the show, which is, you know, what, what is, you know, Matt, you know, Matt is an attorney and, and you know, and also, you know, whereas before, you know, he, you know, one year prior to all this, he was, you know, fighting with his fist. Now he's, he is fighting a system and protecting people, you know, with his. With his legal skills and other things like that. So I really liked. I like to sort of the pivot that they made there as. As well with, you know, showing, you know, showing Matt defend. You know, now defending the potential, you know, another vigilante, you know, given that he is hung up. The cow.

1:02:40 >> Sarah : Well, yeah. And that. >> Will: Well, and he says, you know, he suspected something more was going on. So, you know, to your point, you know. Yeah, I think whenever Cherry was looking around the house, you know, it. >> Sarah : Just, you know, it didn't add up. Yeah. Like, Matt has very good instincts, and a sense of, hearing. But I like that idea about justice. And that's really what they're delving into this season is, Because now he's a. Arguably a victim of injustice. I mean, he was. That's where the statement was going. And then Karen walked in. But this. What I found amusing about the, the Hector of it all and the conversation, the legal conversation, where Matt gets his first quote, unquote victory of the.

1:03:35 Of the series and, and manages that, like, says, okay, we can. We can't talk about him being White Tiger. It's just prejudice. I. I just like. And I think at one point, he. He wasn't holding the mystical stone. We'll say that for us. To us. Not only does he say it with a straight face, everyone reacts like, oh, well. Well, yeah, it's like just the. Yeah. We are in, We are in this world. This is an MCU world. These things have happened. Aliens have hit this earth. Yeah. It's New York City. Aliens has been there, like, forever. but it's just. It's so funny. But I also just this.

1:04:24 This theme which has led over from the original three seasons about that the difference between not only a hero and, or superhero and a vigilante, but also an anti hero. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Because in an anti hero, we get more from when. Once Punisher arrives. which, I'm sorry, Disney plus work on your freaking marketing. I don't want to hear any monologues from John Barnthal until I watch the show. Okay, stop playing these. I. I swear to God, I'm so angry at them. And then I like how I have the. The subscription where ads play and they're playing ads for Daredevil. I'm like, I'm. I'm watching it. Like, why are you telling.

1:05:15 Trying to sell me on a show I'm watching. It makes no sense. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of. Speaking of Punisher, did you did you notice the punisher tattoo on the cop that at the end episode two? >> Sarah : Yes. And from what I understand that means he is a dirty cop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a dirty cop. And like they're, they're. I I. Okay, let's get into the final scene. So the final scene is, is Matt chasing down Nikki who is the only witness to prove that Hector did not actually kill this detective, this police officer who was undercover. and, and quickly after he finds Nikki. So do the, the NYPD who are out to, to get them and then, This is the best fight sequence we've gotten. Oh yeah, this, this was so good. And this was really like. Yes.

1:06:17 The, like this scene. If we can go back to that original question about the edge. Did they retain the edge at. And the violence. And it wasn't violent for the sake of being violence. There's a clear difference. Go watch an episode of the Boys and then come back very different. And, and I love the boys, but sometimes they go too far. But the edit just, it was so well choreographed. I remember when we were watching Echo and we saw we, we Daredevil scene and I told you like this choreo is Daredevil Choreo. Like I don't know who they have on it, but the, the hand to hand combat is just so well choreographed.

1:07:09 It's, it's great. And, and also, and I want to hear your thoughts on this because I've, I, I found it very. And a very interesting observation. >> Will: Sure. >> Sarah : when he, when Matt is on the floor and the gun is pointed to his head, who is he saying don't do this to? Is he saying don't do this to the, the police officer or is he saying don't do this to himself? >> Will: He's talking. I took it as he was talking to himself. >> Sarah : Okay. Interesting. Okay. That. Wow. I, I should have. For some reason I was thinking it was the other guy.

1:07:56 >> Will: Yeah. And I guess. Yeah, yeah. No, I, I guess the reason why I fault that was just thinking back to the first episode. >> Will: And, and, and, and, and you know, trying to turn over a new leaf and he, you know, he just, you know, he really, he's really trying to get past that life. And then especially when his reaction at the end really just doubled down. Doubled down for me that he was just like. I got, I'm you know, I'm trying to not go down his path again and, and, and here we are. >> Sarah : Well, it's more fix was right. >> Will: Yeah. That, well, that's yeah, yeah, thanks. To clarify.

1:08:37 >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, it's that I, I, that moment of him screaming. I was like, yes. End scene moving, like, that's it. We don't need anything else. We don't need a montage or anything because I, I don't know. His fingerprints are all over the place. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Blood. He clearly killed those guys. Like, I, it's, and, and the fact he's already rep, he's representing a, A, an accused cop killer. Only for him to have just killed two cops. I get it, I get it.

1:09:19 Self defense, arguably. But, but at the same time, like, it. I do appreciate, an ending of, of an episode of television in this genre where I'm like, okay, well, how do they get out of that? They, they better have a good way. I know they're going to. But, but how do you, how do you clean that up? You get Cherry on the phone right away. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, Jerry, you're, yeah, get here now. >> Sarah : Get here now and bring some. I don't know. So we, we got, we got some bodies to get rid of. >> Will: We got, yeah, we got, we got, we got some bodies to get rid of. We got some fingerprints to, like, clean up. Yeah, we got, we got, we gotta, we gotta make this place clean.

1:10:02 >> Sarah : Yeah, but, and, and, yeah, it just, I, I really like how, I mean, let's, okay. To kind of close it out. You have the opening of the first episode with. And him. In that moment, right after, like, Foggy dies, he tosses Bullseye off the roof, Right? >> Will: Yep, Yep. >> Sarah : FYI, I still don't know why Bullseye's alive, but whatever. and, and in that moment, like, that was out of pain, grief and sadness. And so it'll be interesting to kind of understand. Okay, so, so what's the self justification at the end of episode, two, you just killed two people.

1:10:59 so, so, and I get it. Like, they're the bad guys, but at the same time, they are people and you're supposedly a hero. So, like, like, I, I, I think, think why it works so well. On top of everything we've, we've just gone through with that scene is the, the fact that they are also proving Fisk is not entirely wrong about his assessment of Daredevil and Matt Murdock. >> Will: Yep. >> Sarah : Which, which we love a villain who can be right some of the time because that makes them more menacing. Missing. We don't want a stupid villain.

1:11:41 >> Will: No, no, not at all. Yeah, so, yeah, that's, that's a very good point. And yeah, you know, I I. Whenever this episode ended, I was like, okay, I'm ready. I. I am, I am ready for. For the next episode because, and because of what you just shared there and. And also, you know, it also, you know, Matt's, you know, he's, you know, he's also very religious and everything else too. So there's so many things that in that moment, whenever he was, you know, at that point, he was just trying to fight for survival. But, But you're right. You know what. Yeah, part of it was just, you know, part of that motivation was to fight.

1:12:21 Just, you know, I gotta live. And. >> Sarah : Yeah, and. >> Will: But. But then at the same time, you know, he. He like, went over that line, and, you know, definitely kill one, maybe two people there and then, like. Yeah. So it. It's gonna be. As the season progresses, I. I'm looking forward to just sort of seeing how the two of them, both fiscal and. And Matt, you know, how that Donner conversation plays out as far as these two. Two people's true natures, show themselves over the course of the series. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. And we will continue this conversation next week and resume our invincible discussion as well.

1:13:11 and so until then, Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you? >> Will: Yes, you can find me on all the socials at. Ah, Will and Pope. W I L L M M P. >> Sarah : O L K. You can find me there too, at SJ Belmont S J B L M O N T. Please follow our crew on X, formerly known as Twitter, at Scene N Nerd on Blue sky at Scene N Nerd. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene Underscore N Nerd, and Visit our website, www.scenenerdpodcast.com. but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get podcasts. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.