In-Depth Insights: The Last of Us 2 x 4 & Thunderbolts* - A Comprehensive Review

>> Will: Intro

>> Sarah : Greetings Nerd, This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah, Belmont. And with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight, Will?

>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah Hope you're having a good Tuesday evening.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. What were you going to say?

>> Will: I was, I just had a, a moment since we recorded last night and I had forgotten to take down the banner from like, the, the show, sort of visit our website and all the where to find us on socials. I was like, oh, let me jump quickly back to the. Welcome to the show. Hey, welcome to the show, everyone. It's, it's, Tuesday, May 6th. Now we're back on our normal night.

>> Sarah : I like how there was a question mark at 6 because my show notes still are all May 5th. May 5th. I was lazy. I'm like, I'm not making another document. It's going to be May 5th. All of these things. but, but yes, we are here to finish out the content this week with Last of US Season 2, as well as talking about the Thunderbolts in the second half of this conversation and because, like, between Thunderbolts and, and that launching over the weekend and we already talked about andor like, like, not much news right now that we're dying to talk about. We just want to get straight into these shows and movies, that we love and we have, some opinions to talk about. So that takes us into the Last of Us, Season two, Episode four, Day one. And, and it's a cold open in Seattle back in 2018. Oh, before I, before I move on, though, Will always likes me to read the IMDb summary. So it says, in Seattle, Ellie and Dina find themselves amid a brutal battle between the zealous Seraphites and a ruthless M militia. Cut to 2018 Seattle quarantine zone and, and freaking Josh Peck. I did not have it on my bingo card that he would make an appearance in the Last of Us. Did you know about that? I feel like no one knew about that.

>> Will: I don't think no one knew about that. I, I, I did not. But whenever he, you know, he does show up in the, in the cold open in 2018. And, and whenever he was telling that story, I was just like, oh, okay, I wasn't expecting it. But, you know, and I was, I did read an interview with him, where he was talking about how he ended up on the show. And but yeah, that was, that was, that was a, that was a pleasant surprise.

>> Sarah : Yeah. And he's, it was a, it was a Good part. I feel like every now and then I feel like the last time I saw him, though, correct me if I'm not wrong, he was in, Oh, my God, why can't I. I.

>> Will: Remember him from Oppenheimer.

>> Sarah : Thank you. Thank you. I, for some reason wanted to say a word that started with an I, but I'm like, it's not Inception. I'm like picturing Kristian Bale. Or not Kristian Bale. Oh, my God. We're moving on. So Josh Pack playing a federal agent or a federal officer, talking to a bunch of others. And, they're talking about the voters. And then one of the new officers says, why are they called voters? And, and in the distance you just hear the voice.

>> Will: Yes.

>> Sarah : You're like, you're like, okay, okay. I, I, Jeffrey Wright. Now, I'm used to his voice because we did cover what if. But, but he, this is a different voice because this voice, it's dangerous. It's gravitas. And I'm like, I've missed the quote unquote, evil Jeffrey Wright presence. And he's not so much evil because in this scene he explains, like his introductory remarks are, we took away their rights and someone called them voters to mock them.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And this is our introduction to Isaac. And, and, this scene not in the game. And, and so I was even like, what, you're a Federation? Okay. I don't know what's going on here. This is interesting. I literally thought to myself, well, are we gonna spend all episode in like 2018 Seattle? Yeah. It just, it gave off that presence. And, and so what were your thoughts as he leaves the vehicle and goes and meets the. What we assume are the WLF or the, the startings of the wlf.

>> Will: Yeah. So a couple things about that scene. One, like you said, the voice. And, and also whenever I was hearing him, talk about, you know, whenever he. To the, to the other people on, on there, on the, on the van, on the armored vehicle and when they stop and, and all I, you could, I could sort of sense the undertone of, of disgusting in, in it. Even though I don't know. I didn't know Isaac for many. You know, I have not played the game, so. But I, but I'm aware of Isaac, you know, the character, that Jeffrey Wright played in the game and of course here, now in Live Action. But whenever he, whenever they got out and they saw the people there in, in the town in Seattle, I was wondering where, where was this going to go?

>> Sarah : Right?

>> Will: Because on the one hand I was Just like, is he going to. Or were these people going to bum rush the vehicle? And because, because especially given the, what we just heard from the story and then, then it happens. Yeah. And, and you know, because he also, also has the other, you know, the new, the new kid, to jump off the, off the vehicle. And, and it really just set up that, you know, he basically like, you know, he knew what he, he was intentional about it. He knew what he was going to do with those guys, the federal agents, remaining people on that, on in the vehicle at that point.

>> Sarah : It was his initiation. It was, it was like, okay, like you're gonna betray these people so you can join our side. They're gonna lose some of theirs and we're gonna gain you. And, and this other kid. And, and I like that line because she says to him, hm, welcome to the fight. And he turns to look at the newbie and says, well, well, now you need to make your choice. I already made mine. And I'm giving you the option. I. Those I could care less about. They're gone. Yeah. There was no saving them. And, and what I think. Now granted, I haven't listened to a lot of people talk about this yet, but the more I think about this scene and the next scene, because we only get Isaac in two scenes, I find it so fascinating because the, and, and we're going to get into the discussion and the setup and all of that, but I'm going to cut to the end where he's having this back and forth with the Seraphite during the interrogation. And, and Jeffrey, the. Now what we assume is, is the leader of the wlf, the wolves. He, he says we have the technology, the them, the manpower, everything. All you got are arrows and a spiritual belief and all this. You don't got shit. And the Seraphite just looks at him and says, every day one of your guys leaves and joins our side. And no, one has left the Seraphites to join the wlf.

>> Sarah : Now why I think that is so such a good line is mainly because we saw already at the beginning of the episode in the cold open, Jeffrey leaving Fedra to join the wlf. Like, like. And so I feel like in that moment, and that's why it really pissed him off, is like he's already portrayed one. Like he knows it's true because he himself, and probably a lot of Fedra or a lot of WLF have betrayed one allegiance or another to join the wlf. And so they're just gonna Going to betray again. So it. It's just. It. It's a really nice ending for what they. What they've already set up in that cold open with. With Isaac.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. And also the. They set that up. And also another thing I thought about too, especially with the torture scene. And I completely agree with you, the, the you know, the Seraphite, you know, is so, you know, so devoted to his cause. and, but also, you know, at that point, I think when Isaac took the actions that he did against the, Fedra team, he, you know, he basically, you know, he, he had enough. And, and, and he. And you know, that, you know, the story that was being told about how the agents, you know, what's his name, Greenberg or whatever, was like, you know, beating the person up. And, and he. Isaac had reached the point where this is just wrong and this has got to be stopped. And so when you fast forward to the torture scene, to me, I took it at least my interpretation of that scene was he is now basically those agents, the wlf, there's like those. The toxic. Toxic agents that. That are doing atrocities, you know, to the, you know, where he's like torturing this man, you know, using this in a very sadistic way with, this monologue about how he would use Williams and Sonoma of Cook Bear to, you know, to. To. To impress a woman. And it. And so I, You know, I was just like, man, you know, you know, remind me of the line, you know, if you're, you know, you stick around long enough, you'll become the villain. And he's now.

>> Sarah : Well, yeah, he's. He's the villain in someone's story. He's the hero on his own. It's. It's the classic trope. But I. Where I thought you were gonna go was more into that idea of like the. Right up into, the. The circle. The circle of like, you killed our children. well, we wouldn't have done that if he didn't teach them to shoot at us.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sarah : You broke this alliance. You did that. You, like, it's always one up. And, and so what. What we're seeing is. We're seeing a bigger version, a more worldview perspective of, of what is going on with Abby and Ellie.

>> Will: Yep. Yeah.

>> Sarah : That has to do with. With two deaths. Two deaths. But. But.

>> Will: Yeah, and the other thing too, I thought of, you know, when we first meet the Sarah fights the prior week. They were. They were cast as victims in the third episode. So that also when I was watching the scene. You know, my immediate thought, especially when he was torturing this individual. you know, because at that point in the episode, we still hadn't seen the atrocities Exactly. That the Seraphites have done to WLF in Seattle. So it just. Again, to your point, too, the whole circle is just.

>> Sarah : Well, it's. It's a great way to put us in Ellie's. Ellie's eyes. M. Because she. She had the same thoughts that we did. We did in that previous episode to be like, the wolves did this. And like, Abby's crew did this. And. And with. With. With nothing to, like, not knowing the situation or any. No context, really. And then. So. So we see Isaac portray Fedra in the opening. We see the torture scene. The next time we see Seraphites or. Or wlf, you got Dina and Ellie walking in on a massacre. A mass hanging. And it's. And it's the w. Wolves hanging from the ceiling. And on top of that, if that wasn't worse, their guts are hanging out of their bodies.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : And. And then on the wall, it says, Doesn't it say, like, if you believe in her.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it's like a little. Yeah. They reference the. The Seraphite.

>> Sarah : Yeah. The prophet. Yeah. And. And it's. It's all, I kind of wish that I no feel her love. That's what I feel.

>> Will: Her love. Yeah.

>> Sarah : And so what I think they're doing a very good job is, again, we said this last week, things are too quiet. The things are. And. And I was thinking about this last night. I was thinking about how we just got done talking about Daredevil Born again. And I talked about it while covering that show with you. I, talked about how it was like, you can hear a tea kettle, like, just starting. And now I feel like the tea kettle here, it's like, not even on. But as the further we get into Seattle, the more it's like, Ellie, you might want to reconsider some things.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : I don't really know if you know what you're like. And. And Dina, I. I feel like you keep telling Ellie, like, you got no plan. We shouldn't do this. So here, follow my lead. But. But let's be honest, Dina, I don't know if you got much of plan either. So, But. But they're doing in a good way, like, to what you said. Like, one moment you feel sympathy, and then you see the m. The mass hanging, and you're like, okay, I really don't know the conflict that's happening here?

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, it's the conflict that's happening there. And, and again we're in a. And then of course, you know, we'll get it, we'll get to it here, here in a bit. But to your point about things being quiet, we hadn't seen any of the infected yet, but you know, so that was another thing. As I was watching this episode as it was unfolding, I was like, you know, I was thinking back to our conversations about the different factions, especially once we got. When we saw, we saw the clear back, back and forth of violent acts that were being undertaken by each faction with the Seraphites and the wlf and, and, and, and then the thing that what. Especially as they were. We see this post apocalyptic world, the, the, and the tribalism. And we've talked about this before especially like where, you know, with the first part of the season when, when Joel and, and Maria were having a conversation about any more refugees coming into the, into the camp and, and, and, and so, so in so many. And of course in the first season we've seen the various factions when Joel and Ellie were, you know, going across country trying to find, trying to find, Tommy. So it's just to your point about the world growing and, and, but also, you know, before it was just, you know, it was a much smaller cop, you know, the conflict between Ellie and Abby, but now, you know, again, again getting the bigger, the bigger things that's going on in Seattle. You know, as Dina said. What the going on in Seattle?

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: and, and, and, and, and the tribalism and that even though humanity's been through this cataclysmic event, the people, people's prejudices and, and Reese, you know, resource allocation and you know, survivalism, all those things really are, are a full display here that even after there's only like, you know, however many people, obviously there's no census done, you know, how many people are still alive, but whoever's remaining. You know, you would think that at this point people would be like, okay, we gotta, we gotta put all this old, this old behind and you know, we got to work together to survive. But no, the, the things that hap. You know, and I guess, you know, and I guess we even saw that in real world context too with like, with COVID I mean, whenever the thing first happened, everybody was just like, oh God, we got to get a mask. You know, we got to help each other. Neighbor looking out for neighbor. But by the end of it, you know, as we Progress down the event. You know, know, people felt, you know, felt in many ways back to some selfish old habits and stuff. So I mean, so I just really like the way that the last of us really just presents all of these like what if you know, put, you know, presents these like things in this story and in this TV show and also, you know, clearly in the game the source material probably, you know, has these elements as well that. That make us really question like, you know, what are we doing here and why are we doing it.

>> Sarah : and. And so because you already brought it up, might as well talk about the big infected sequence that occurred in this episode. I will admit I got a bit bored and I thought it went on too long. But, but it allowed for Ellie to savedina, by. By getting bitten by an infected and allowing a. A truth and, and a consequence. And, and again, something that I really appreciate about this show is the, the mirroring because, because the whole sequence with. With Dina trying to grapple with. With Ellie, and potentially being infected, and losing her while Ellie is trying to be like okay, how do I make sure she realizes that I'm immune? Yeah, like, like if. If I told me that I wouldn't believe me either. I like that line.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : Oh, sorry. I was just gonna say like my point being, ah, for me, I went to two se. episodes in season one. I went to. I, I loved the, the reminiscing of when Joel first found out. Like when she was bitten in season one and Joel went through that. Very similar. Like you say there.

>> Will: Yeah, that's what I was about. That's. Yeah, I was just about to bring that up. Yep.

>> Sarah : Yeah. The other way episode though was Ellie's flashback episode episode. And that they even hint at, in the previous episode, this season is, is that like in that sequence it was her first love who. She who wasn't immune gets bit and she has to kill her. And, and and you. Because of that episode. I think that's why it's so, so all so much more powerful of when. When Dina like, like Ellie wakes up and Dina realizes the truth and is like I'm pregnant and they kiss and they do more. But yeah, yeah.

>> Will: Ah, like it was a very, very nice moment. Very very interesting moment. And it was, it all was all. Yeah and it was all set up with the. When they first get into Seattle, you know, we see, you know, they, they in the district, in Seattle you had to saw the prod and you know, and also One. One little quick note about that too is it gives us the. The context clues as far as, like, you know, when the world ended in the last of us, same sex relationships and stuff were. We're what weren't. as they are. As accepted as they are in real world, in real time. As far as, like, after the world ended. you know, in the real world. But in. In that world, it was still the 2000. What 2003 is when it happened in the show.

>> Sarah : It was in early 2000s, I believe. But see, like, then why were there rainbows everywhere?

>> Will: Well, it was a very accepting district of Seattle.

>> Sarah : Okay. Okay. I was. I was just like, I don't know if that's what they. And then.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, there's that. And also because. And also Dina's reaction, you know, not knowing, like, you know, like, she mentions. I think her mother, like, says, you know, you must like boys. you know, that. That comment. So there was, you know, so there was still a lot of that, you know, still that her, you know, her mom not accept accepting her bisexuality, for example.

>> Sarah : Yeah, but that wasn't set up because she explains that after they get.

>> Will: Yeah, she explains it after. But I'm just saying it's in a clue that the setup was, you know, setup was just okay, you know, obviously to take on me, when they're in the music show.

>> Sarah : I mean. I mean, we've known that Dina has had feelings with her for her since the first episode because they kiss at the.

>> Will: Yeah, but they've been, you know, but, you know, but shoot. You know, but even with that, they were trying to play it off. It's like, no, I was drunk. You know, it was. It, you know, it was never. I guess we know Ellie had it. Feelings for her. But yeah, Dina was still. Dina was still trying to mask it with, you know, with Jeremy.

>> Sarah : so, I. I'm just more curious about, how surprised you were that Dean is pregnant.

>> Will: I was.

>> Sarah : Okay. I held my tongue so much last week because the moment she sees the Seraphites and throws up, I'm like, oh, my God. I'm only gonna say something if Will mentions that at all and you didn't. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna sit on this.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. was. Yeah, that's the way she threw up then. And then she. And then, of course, even whenever she threw up in this episode, after seeing the,

>> Sarah : What did you think, though, about the medical supplies? Because I thought that was a more like, hey, guys.

>> Will: Yeah, when I saw the monistat. I was like, oh. But you know, at the same time, I was just, you know. But I, I also felt Went back to like, season one when, When Ellie was, you know, rummaging through, through that convenience store, so. And even when she was like, I need to pee. You know, I, I guess, I should have known better. I mean, just given the father and been through that like twice.

>> Sarah : To me, the fact that you did it means it played out perfectly. Because sometimes they over broadcast stuff, stuff like that, and I'm like, you're making it too obvious. You don't. You. We want to be as shocked as Ellie and be like, which, which is a great line. I'm holy. I'm gonna be a father. I'm gonna be a dad. Yeah. M. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and then, to go back even a little bit further. Take on. Take Me on or take. Take on me. What is the song called?

>> Will: yes. Take, Take On Me by Aha. Ah, apparently. Yeah. Which apparently. I was, I don't know if I was listening to the after show with Druckman, but the, one of the members of the band actually, I think was on set or something like that and was really flattered that they, used that particular song. Apparently.

>> Sarah : Well, they used it in the game. And, and, and okay, this leads me to. One of my overall thoughts about this episode is, this episode, the, the way the cinematography, especially in that scene worked. Oh my God. It was just like it's the first time watching this show, and in particular this episode where I'm just sitting there watching it and I'm thinking to myself, oh, my God, this looks like a video game. And usually when people say that, it's negative. I mean, I mean, before, Thunderbolts, they, they showed the Tron trailer. It was one of two trailers I had to sit through.

>> Will: You're lucky you only had two. I have like 30 minutes here in Durham.

>> Sarah : Oh, I know. Trust me. I, I, I want. I looked at my clock and I was like, yeah, I, I went to the bathroom. When I first walked in, I was like, they're about to play Superman. Will made me watch that trailer like twice already. So I'm out of here. Go to the bathroom. Anyways, so, so, the Tron trailer, I was sitting there and I was like, this looks like a video game. That's not a good thing. It looks like cgi. It looks fake. It looks, it looks artificial. But the way they have constructed Seattle Jackson, this whole show feels like the game in the best ways and to. And like, there are certain scene. I mean, the, The. The scenes in the game are also beautifully artistic. And so to get that light and the, Just this beautiful moment and the song. Because, yes, the song can be attributed to her and Dina, but it's also like the Joel of it all and the grief and, and it's just. It was so well done. And Bella sounded great.

>> Will: She did.

>> Sarah : She really did. And, and, And I just. I. I love that. And it's juxtaposed with. Later on in the episode with the darkness, like those two almost losing each other because of the infected, and. And then that bringing them closer together, and then that hesitation to go further, which I think is. I would have questioned them if they didn't. And Dina, honestly, I'm questioning you just a little bit. I'm like, yeah, yeah, sure. You see that far away building? We're gonna go there. Did, did y'all forget in your, like, hey, we're in love. Did y'all forget what you saw in that room?

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. In that TV studio that was, Yeah. You still want to do this? Yeah. Whenever they had a choice, it's like, you know. Yeah. But again, to trouble the, the need for revenge and, and, and how that. That is. You know, we have a mission and we're. And yeah, they. They. We've got, you know, that cycle of balance, you know, it's just. It's just. It's there. And, and, and But yeah. But even. Yeah.

>> Sarah : Yeah, the, The. I. I just. I can't. I can't get over this. I'm, going back to the art of it all. Because, when they go into the theater, I'm like, I'm like, looking and I'm like, holy, this looks exactly. I just. I'm just like, oh my God, we're at. That's the theater. Oh, okay. Okay. Starting to, Starting to. Yep. Okay. I just. I'm so. I'm so excited for the next. I'm like continuing to be excited. I will admit, initially, coming off of this episode, I was thinking myself, I'm like, I m wonder. I really wonder how many people who don't know anything about this story and especially coming off of the Loss of Joel Page, Pedro, like, are. Are they. Are they still on the fence? Like, are they still in. And, and hearing you talk about it and hearing some others, I feel like people are still on board.

>> Will: Oh, yeah.

>> Sarah : and, and, and because these last two episodes have been quiet, they've been Quiet. But there's a lot of intentionality going on that I really appreciate. And I think there's a. There's. There. There are three episodes and an entire season left to play out. So.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm still on board. I mean, I think, you know, as whenever we had the cold open with this episode, it, you know, I was intrigued. Like I said earlier, I thought maybe. Maybe we're gonna get a flashback, you know, another one of those moments. But, we, you know, when we get back to present day and just sort of. And. And I hadn't, you know, clearly, I hadn't played the game, so I knew everything up to Joel's passing, getting murdered. After that, I. I am. I am back to being completely ignorant of. Of things. So I haven't seen any cut scenes or anything for, you know, about Seattle. So everything from these. From our reviews forward, I. I am truly the audience member who hasn't played the game, who. Now I'm curious, you know, now after watching one and almost a half seasons of this, I guess, half seasons of this show, I. I'm like, you know what? Now I do want to play the game. But. But, the things that. But yes, it is. I think this was the episode that really, for me with Ellie and. And Dina, that dynamic and being able to. And the whole story moving forward as we have, the Seattle piece. Yeah, clearly it's a different dynamic than. Than Joel and Ellie. I mean, that's, you know, that's like the one that's like an iconic pairing like Batman and Robin. But. But at the same time, I'm intrigued. Like you said, the. The way that this show, the story is unfolding and, and you know, even though, like, you're right. I mean, even though it was. The scene in the music store did feel like a video game in many respects. And of course, whenever they were in a TV studio when they had to go into stealth mode and all those kind of things to like, evaded WLF in that moment. Yeah, it felt very video gamey. but it was also a nice payoff from Ellie's getting the. At least training from the earlier in the season whenever she takes that guy out. But. But. But it didn't feel video gamey in a bad way. Like when people say, oh, it's, you know, it's a video game adaptation. It really hasn't. So I'm 100 on board with this show and I'm just really looking forward to this sort of seeing how things unfold as we, we go on this. On this quest with, for justice in Ellie's eyes, against Abby for what she did to Joel.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. Damn it. You set me up for a really good segue into our next topic, but you already told me during pre show that you wanted to have a certain segue, so I guess we will do that.

>> Will: You do your. You do. You. You do the segue. You do. You do your segue. I will. I will just.

>> Sarah : Oh, no, no. I just. I. I mean, to me, I. I don't even. My point about the it looking like a video game wasn't. Wasn't about the action sequences at all. I didn't have that thought at all. It was mainly about the art direction of the episode and the scenery. Like, the. The ca. The. The. The design of it looked like not a video game, but the video game. And. And we've seen so many attempts at, like, let's recreate this world and everything, but they go too far or they don't go far enough. And. And that's where it falls apart. And. And that's. That's the segue into Thunderbolts, where. Where. Watching the Thunderbolts, I have to tell you, and everybody knows I'm not a big fan of action. And. And we will get into Act 1, Act 2, Act 3, and all that. But. But there's a lot of action sequences in Thunderbolts where I was like, awesome. I was. I was like. I was like, cool, cool, cool, cool. I'm not. I'm not bored. I'm not checked out. They had a. They had a good amount of comedy on top of the action, and they had. They had some practical effects. And. Oh, my God, I am so glad. I. I, also, I was like. I was sitting there watching Fantastic Four trailer. The other trailer I had to sit through for the fourth time. And all I thought about during that trailer was how Will made me watch this trailer. And so now we've already seen it five times. But anyways, like, I was also thinking. I also had a thought. I'm like, I bet you. Because everyone's going nuts about the fact that Florence Pugh did this stunt. The opening scene is her going to be jumping off the top the building. Sure enough. It was. it was. But. But yeah, so. So the big news headline coming off of this weekend, and also the fact that we saw this movie over the weekend is that it's not called Thunderbolts with an asterisk, but it is called the Avengers.

>> Will: I don't like the Avengers or the New Avengers? The New Avengers, yeah.

>> Sarah : Ah, the New Avengers. I'm sorry, but. But they didn't put a Z at the end of it, did they?

>> Will: No. So now the asterisk is now with the, unfolding of it, they have the asterisks in front and then the New Avengers.

>> Sarah : Okay, Okay. I, I think they should have. I think for copyright issues, they should have done the Avengers. The New Avengers with the Z. Okay. I'm just.

>> Will: Oh, well, I'm totally. So, you know. Yeah. well, obviously, if you're listening to us as you have watched a movie, I hope you have, Spoiler alert. yeah, there is a copyright. When you go to the, the social, media pages from Marvel. They added this today, with the Avengers with the little copyright symbol.

>> Sarah : Yeah, I'm not worried about spoiling this because Sebastian Stan has already been seen on the streets replacing posters with the New.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's. There's been a whole dialogue about that.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: As far as whether or not. Whether or not, because I saw it yesterday and then we'll can talk about the actual movie. But the, you know, it was. They dropped the big, you know, I guess the end. I mean, one, one. The ending of the movie, you know, for, you know, for people who, who haven't seen it yet.

>> Sarah : And don't go into significant detail because there is another spoiler in that.

>> Will: Oh, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. I'm just. Yeah, but, but yeah, they, they list. You know, they, they dropped the New Avengers. And I guess for me, when I first saw that, it was just like, okay, you know, really sucks for those folks who, you know, for whatever reason, couldn't make it out opening weekend. and then also I, I thought. Well, yeah, I, I was a mix of. You know, it was if, you know, I thought it was. If you're going to do it, fine. You know, clearly I was reading an article in the Hollywood Reporter. It was some. This was something that they had planned in advance.

>> Sarah : Clearly.

>> Will: you know, as far as doing this rebranding, as far as, you know, what, what, you know, from thunderbolts, asterisks to asterisks, the New Avengers. But I just felt like. I just felt like it was just too soon. I mean, maybe wait till like the second weekend and then do it. but you know, clearly, maybe they. Maybe they know something is. You know, this is the studio after all that, like, kept people captured for like half a day. With just. You know, with just a chair getting revealed with the actor's name on the back, you know, for. For what they. As they were unveiling the cast of Doomsday. So maybe they know something. I don't know.

>> Sarah : Maybe. Maybe. I could care less about it because. Because I saw the movie. I. I went into the movie. I thought the whole time, I am so glad. I refused to watch any trailers after the initial one that gave away virtually nothing. I. There were so many scenes that caught me off guard. Only to then, after watching the movie go down the rabbit hole, hole of interviews, a few spoiler reviews, and for people to be like, yeah, well, they. How. You saw that in the movie? In the trailer. They saw that in the trailer. You saw Alexi telling Yelena, like. Like, I don't see your mistakes. I only see you. And I'm just like, I didn't see any of that in the trailer. It was awesome. It was awesome. I knew it was gonna be a pretty good movie, but I'm just so happy that, like, I. I knew nothing.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Well. Well, I think as well, you know, for. For new listeners, I will say that I was not enthusiastic about this film at all. and. And I guess as. As. As we got a little bit closer, I was just like, okay, you know, I'll give it a fair shot. But, when I saw it Saturday and I. I had. I was. I was like, all right. I. I mean, I. I turned. I turned to my friend. I was like, man, the MCU is back. I really had. I really. Maybe I had, you know, maybe it's, you know, first runner of the moment. Yeah, I was. But even after a few days of. After watching it, I do feel like it, you know, it was a very solid, solid MCU film. and. And I really appreciate it. I mean, even in the movie, you know, just to. There were a couple moments, where I. I was. I was genuinely moved, by. By this. By this movie. I think the story and, you know, we can get into. Get into some plot details now. I mean, this. Really. There are a lot of things about who the villain was and. And story beats and things that were in here that just really resonated with me.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, continue.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, Well, I mean, let's. I mean, you know, you know, clearly starting with Yelena, at the beginning, like you said, you know, the scene, you know, but that was into one trailer or. Or her being at the top of the second tallest building in Malaysia and jumping off, but, you know, from what I had. So whenever she did that, you know, I got the. I was like, okay, you know, she's a, You know, she's a former widow and all that kind of stuff. So we got the spy craft things going. You knowing she's probably, you know, she's taking that role. So. Yeah, I was thinking, okay, we got a little Bond action, Mission impossible vibe here. yeah, but also. Let me just. Let me just finish my thought. And then, But then when she was talking and. And she was talking about her, you know, the. The feelings of, you know, just this emotional state that she was in as far as boring, you know, predictable job, and she gets in there with the lab and stuff, I was like, oh, is this. They're. They're going. They're going to a place that I think I might be intrigued by. I'm done.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah. I. I find. I found that monologue interesting because. Not because it went to that place, but because, if you really think about that monologue and the. The day job, it's a whole. It's a satire for the MCU in general. it's completely satire. And. And, yeah, so. So we got Yelena doing that and setting it up. I don't really know where to go from here. Here. But, Yeah, yeah, I. I guess. I guess the. The movie. Sorry, guys. I'm kind of tripping up because I. I hate repeating things that people have already said, and drilling down, I think, on the same points over and over again. Because, like, the big thing that everyone's coming out of this movie kind of in awe of is how much it went into mental, health.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : which. Which from Yelena throughout the whole. Whole movie. and then you have that juxtaposed with the century, AKA Bob, or Bob, AKA the century, which. Which. It was funny because the. The one trailer I watched made it seem like the big thing was thunderbolts. We can't be called that. Thunderbolts. We can't be called that. Yeah, but. But I swear to God, for the first 45 minutes of this movie, I was just like, you would die if you drank every. Or took a shot. Every time they said Bob, I. I was like. I was like, they're hardly talking about the name M. And then, of course, we do get into that. The moment Red Guardian comes, to save them in his limo. And, he. He brings up the soccer team, and one girl even pooped. They won. No games. And Then it's just this. The, like, I love the humor in this.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : I, I, I think that, like, the MCU has always been given somewhat of a bad rap. Like, but it amazes me how when the MCU humor works, it m. Works. It works like, you only think about when it doesn't. Which. Yeah, it doesn't. Ant man movies. I'm talking to you. But, but, like, what? You were.

>> Will: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Sarah : I know you. I know you. And also, he was not talking about the, the third one. He's talking about about the fourth one. Okay. Because we all know, there's some comedic genius in Ragnarok.

>> Will: Yes, we do. Yes. It's not a Ragnarok. No, no, no, no.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. But, but like, and, and I think why I was excited for this, for this movie and, like, going into it being, like, I don't care if I don't really understand this concept or think, like, why do we need this? Like, like these characters are ancillary. I was just, like, looking at the cast and, like, I like it. I like you people. And, and I, and they seem to like each other.

>> Will: Yes.

>> Sarah : And they seem to have, like, the chemistry I wanted more of. Just like, when John Walker and, and what? Ghost's real name is Eve, isn't it?

>> Will: Gosh. What's Ghost?

>> Sarah : Ghost Or Mel. No, no, Mel's Val's sidekick. Ah, no, when Ghost, John Walker and Yelena are in the back of the truck and they're talking about, like, I got this, I got, like, this knife, this, this, type of gun and everything. I'm like, can we get another scene here? I want the extended version. Like, there were a lot of, like, small moments. And granted, these, those three in particular spend a lot of this movie together, but I just, I just, they go, they bounce off of each other so great. And I, like, clearly they were having fun and, and, and I liked it. And that's. I couldn't help but thinking, like, this is what was missing for, for me in Brave New World. Like, I don't think a lot. I think Antony mcity has fun wherever he goes, but, but for some reason, he could not bring the party to that movie. And, and it was lacking. And not even Harrison Ford could save it. Harrison Ford, honestly, was a big issue I had with that movie. But anyways, focused on the good. So. So, yeah, like, I think, I think the humor and the cast chemistry just is what, like, allowed this, this story to really unfold in a way that has captured a lot of people's attention and, and you are hearing word of mouth reach out. So, so we'll, we'll see what that means for box office week too.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. I could put 100% agree with you as far as the chemistry and I think that was as the movie progressed and so, because at first I, I will say, Florence P. Is a wonderful actress. No, I can't. You know, and she, she is the clearly the driving force in, in a lot of, with a lot of respect as far as being a prot. Protag M protagonist of this film. Even though sometimes her Russian accent kind of failed her. and that, that, that was, I mean if it did have a nitpick, I mean that was one thing that, that did sometimes take me out of it a little bit. But the chemistry with the cast was amazing and you know, and before we started recording I, I joked with you, I was just sharing with you, you know, some thoughts as far as like, you know, everybody. Yeah, you're right. There's been a lot of conversations compared us to Guardians and, and and you know, the mental health in the mcu and you know this is such a, you know, great, you know, big thing. But you know, there's been other, clearly there's been other films that have addressed mental, you know, health issues in mcu. I mean look at, look at Thor and and you know, in End Game and you know, of course Tony at the you know, in those, in those films as well. And there's you know, some other examples. I think the difference, you know, but differences with this film was one, you know, was just, you know, it was the B characters, C characters, and the, you know, and they really, you know we got to know some of the backstories with these folks and of course with the shame rooms. But the thing that, the, the thing that I kept going to when I was watching this film was I was, I was thinking about Doom Patrol, the show that we covered, a lot, you know, all, all seasons that was on the old dc, streamer app and then later on HBO Max and, and, and and and the broken characters and the issues that they all were dealing with and, and, and, and and how, you know, we were talking about cast chemistry.

>> Will: In that show. How well it worked and just made us so enamored and, and really you know, related to those characters, you know, and say as they were working through their brokenness and then coming out to become a superhero team. And I felt that was the analog that I kept pulling from whenever I was watching this film because, you know, again, it was a very similar, similar track where we. We do have these characters where all we can do is, you know, we can do shoot guns and jump and. And they are broken characters for various reasons. You know, we saw, you know, we saw the, the impact of. With John Walker, even though he was, you know, you know, Wyatt Russell, hats off to him, you know. Yeah. I mean, even with Falcon and Winter Soldier, we were like, you know, you'll see, you know, he was. He was a dick. And then now that he has Super Soldier, he's a dick times. Times of infinity. But it was still relatable. And especially that moment whenever he was, you know, when he, when he touches Bob and he goes to the, you know, to, to the fall from grace where he's doom scrolling about the incident that happened there where, where he killed. Where you lost control and, and it just made it so relatable. So that's where I was thinking, like, dude, that's where that's. That's when I. Well, not relatable. That's where I. Not. That's what I was gonna say.

>> Sarah : Will, have you ever beaten in public?

>> Will: I hadn't killed anyone in public, but I had, you know, but we've all had those humiliating fails where it just like where you do Doom scroll, you know, whether it's, you know, maybe not being on, you know, maybe a public event.

>> Sarah : I know, I know. I know what you're. What you're getting at. I think the comparison to Doom Patrol is spot on for the first season. Okay. We all know how that show ended. Okay. I have some major issues with that show and, And I think that, where something, that I kept also going back to is more about a concept. And we've covered a lot of movies and TV shows in this genre together over the years. And I always get annoyed when a superhero. I don't care who you are. When, when they're presented as being flawless. And, And I think that's what people are. Are not recognizing in these characters that are in this movie and this, ensemble is that, yeah, they're broken, but they, they have flaws. And they've also inadvertently, not necessarily even by choice, been given these powers. And that's why I thought it was such a clever move for them to face off against Century. Now granted, really the villain of the story is Julia Louis Dreyfus, who also also. Come on. She is so good.

>> Will: Valentina.

>> Sarah : Yeah.

>> Will: Finally lived up to what. What we all were hoping that they, I think they were where they had tried to get her to. But this film, I think actually finally like, absolutely captured it.

>> Sarah : Right. And, and even, even with her, we see, we see her touch. Touch Bob. And she, we see that she lived through, and not. She witnessed her father being killed by Nazis. Like, and, and then that, that little brief scene kind of informs like. Okay, okay, now we understand more about where she comes from, why she's so. I must protect me. And very conniving. So it makes sense. You're starting to put some pieces together about her. I, I just. All of the shame Room stuff, especially like the third act with Century. I'm sorry, not Century, the Void. I'm. I'm probably in the minority. I did. I did not really care for the art direction or the. Like, let me just point at these people. And then they are shadows. I mean, granted, we. We had a finger snap in a movie that. And people turned to dust. But for some reason that was more effective for me. But, but then once Yelena steps. Steps through and you go into the room. Into a room in a room. Very, very Eternal Sunshine esque. Eternal sunshine of Spotless Mind esque. I. I loved that. I. I loved that. It was very. These quote unquote heroes, or are m. They like, that's another thing that they got right is they didn't make this movie about a group of anti heroes. They didn't make it about a group of vigilantes because we've seen those movies and those movies have felt fallen flat on their faces because that is such a hard thing to do. Because, like, I'm sorry, us as consumers, the p. The bad people have to be bad and the good people have to be good. These guys, like, to your point, they're Doom Patrol. They're misfits. They are. They are people with arguably some lackluster super abilities who, who. Who are trying to figure out like. Like are in this weird in between. Like, I'm not normal, but I'm not extremely special. So like, who am I and And where am I? And they just get put together in the best circumstances. That's another strong point. Like, we are all used to. Oh, the villain meets the. Like when two superheroes confront each other, they have to fight. Well, these guys were literally assigned to kill each other.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : Like, and that's why, that's why I think they arguably went a little too far with Century and the Void and like the, the blacking out of New York. Because at that point it was like oh, you're. You're starting to make this seem like they're trying to save the world. Like, like it's not about saving the world. and. And they, they walked very narrow that line very narrowly and didn't go all the way there, which I thought was important. And that's why I'm fully behind the. The quote unquote world being saved with a hug. Okay. That was a nice group hug. It was a needed group hug.

>> Will: That. Yeah, the group hug, actually, that's where I got. I. I got moved. because. Yeah, it was just, I think every. You know, because again, all of these characters, even. Even though the ghost didn't have as much, I guess ghost and, and, And Bucky, clearly we have chronicled their backstories. You know, we saw, I guess, ghost issues with trauma and stuff in, in ant Man 2, I think it was. And then of course, Bucky, you know, we. We'd all know about Bucky. So it even acknowledges that in. In, you know, in the scene about, like. Okay, I've. I've. Yeah, I've had my stream room moment. So, he knows what his issues are. But I think the, the group hug at the end is like. I mean, I did. I got that. I had a little tear in my eye because it was. I. By. By the time I got to that point in the film, I would. I just really felt for these characters. and to your. And even though, I guess. Yeah. The void. I, don't know even. Yeah. Something about that blackness, you know, and I know it's hard to vis. It's hard to put that up on the screen in a way that captures that. That feeling of despair or. Or whatever that people.

>> Sarah : Well, that doesn't look cheap.

>> Will: That doesn't look cheap, exactly. but I think just the story construct and the way that they had gotten up to that point and then especially as they were going through the rooms, like, you know, seeing, you know, you know, Bob talked about how he was a meth head and, and then. And you know, and then the chickens, they were going through the rooms and the chicken attack and whatever. He was like spinning whenever he was.

>> Sarah : That sign. One more time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the rooms.

>> Will: So by the time I got to, you know, so we're the third act. Usually Marvel third acts are just like, oh, go, here we go. The usual sci fi, you know, the usual, special effects extravaganza. Good, bad, or in between. I, to me, the, the emotional core of the movie and especially I think Lewis Pullman's Portrayal of Bob, which was. And, and the connection between him and, and Yelena made me like, yeah, I just connected. And it just, like, when that happened and the group hug happened, I was just like. And, I was like, damn, is it misty in here? Because it worked. It worked.

>> Sarah : Yeah, it, like, like they are now all stuck together. And, they. And I, like, like, arguably Century is so powerful, but because of his mental issues, he's a ticking time bomb. Like, he's, he's a defective superhero. It's, it's, it's really ironic and it's funny. And, I am, I, I, I'm, I'm still always looking forward to Marvel projects. I, I did, I did. I was right, because I, I did say, like, there's, I don't know that the one trailer I saw, I was like, I don't. No, I like it. they like the cast. Everyone on this cast deserves a shout out.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : And then I'm just gonna say, so. David Harbor. I, I, I miss, I miss you on Stranger Things. I know he's on Stranger Things, but this is the David harbor of Stranger Things, season one. Like, and, and I remember early, earlier this year when we're talking about what if. And we heard his voice, and I was like, I don't care if it's a lame Russian accent. I love him because he's so much having fun and, and I love the fact that throughout this movie, he, arguably, more than any of their of the other performances and characters, is able to go so, so smoothly between let me make a joke to let me be the most sincere. Not your father, but pretty much your father embarrass you. I love that embarrassing moment. I love it so much. But also, like, I'm so proud of you. Like, like, Alexi is so good. I feel like now they're never gonna do this, but I need an Alexi in every single movie moving forward. Okay. So he's so, like, I have been missing the good, the, the funny dad character and the fact that we get that and he's a quote unquote superhero. Like, it's like, oh, God, that's so good.

>> Will: It was. Yes. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right. I mean, every, every time he was on the screen, it was just like, it. Yeah, because, yeah, you're right. It never, it never that it never wore thin.

>> Sarah : No, no. The whole ongoing joke about, like, that's another thing everyone coming, like, would think, like, oh, they keep saying thunderbolts in the trailer because, like, the asterisks and everything I want, I wanted them to rip off that title and put the whole ongoing gag in the movie, which is about who actually was the team owner or like manager. Like, like that was the thing. And, and apparently I did, I did listen to some cast interviews and apparently the cast also. And I forget I'm, I'm stupid and I didn't write down the name that they kept referring to of this person, but they, the cast themselves, while in Vegas shooting the whole limousine, sequence. Cast Mark Rylance as, Who would play that.

>> Will: That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, I, I was listening to the director too. he was on the Midnight Boys and I was listening to him talk about, the, the cast and the filming and you know, he was making very similar points that, that you're making, about the show movie. And the other thing too is, you could tell that they had a, they had a good, they, they adjusted the story. You know, they had a story that they wanted to tell and he was this, the profiling that. And then the writer strike happened. So everything, you know, they had pencils down, but when they came back, they did some of the retooling and, and, and one of the things that he, he noted is that they made Bob, a, A central. You know, he had to be a part of the gang. And, and I think that's, that's also when they did the rewrite. So I think that's another thing that, you know, that if. I think if, if that character had not been a part of the part, of the group, then the, then the, the moments that we were talking about in the third actors would not have worked because it wouldn't have felt earned. It wouldn't have, it would not have been earned at all.

>> Sarah : It would be a completely different movie. Like. And so what, What I'm taking away from you spilling that is that, Because, Will, you always point out, you, you always give people the excuse. Oh, the writer strike. Oh. Ah, the writer strike. Oh, well, in this case, people actually made the thing better that could have happened. Yeah, no more excuses.

>> Will: We saw, we saw, we saw where it doesn't work. New Brave New World. And it did work.

>> Sarah : Well, I'm not just say Brave New World. You've been handing out that.

>> Will: Yeah, I know, but I'm just, I'm just keeping it. I'm just keeping. I'm just keeping it. I'm keeping it in the Marvel universe right now. But, but, yeah, but, yeah, but, you know, you know, speaking of things too. And I could. With, We got. We brought up Lewis Pullman, and I think he's. I think. Remember, him from Top Gun Maverick. And,

>> Sarah : Wait, wait, who did he play in Top Gun Maverick?

>> Will: He played, Bob. He played. He. Bob. Yes. So he. In Top Gun Maverick. He played.

>> Sarah : He played Bob.

>> Will: Yeah, I know, but. No, yeah, my point. Yeah, yeah. I said. No, I said I hadn't seen this is before. Before. Obviously he played Bob in this, but I said before. The last time I think I saw him in was Top Gun Maverick.

>> Sarah : Right.

>> Will: I know, but it's not where I'm going.

>> Sarah : Okay.

>> Will: No, what I was going to say is, I was. I was. I was talking about where I was going with that. My point is that with. With the casting and a different. If speaking of our point about different films is Steven Yun, who, of course does the voice of Mark Grayson, was, originally cast as Sentry. And. And now I. I'm. So that's another situation where because of scheduling and whatnot. I'm glad things worked out the way that they did, because I think not. No, no offense to. To. To Stephen at all. I think he would have done just fine. But I. I don't know if I would have been able to separate Invincible from. From Century. you know, but, One and then two. I think both Century, you know, but it's something you said earlier in this episode, that I was thinking about with, superheroes, and stuff, and. And, you know, you know, Century being basically Marvel's version of Superman, with being indestruct, you know, being an indestructible character, which. The fact that he. He does have this split, this personality, you know, if he does just, you have to, you know, good with the bad with this character. And that's why, you know, when you get to the film, we, you know, he basically has to be on the shelf because, you know. Yeah, you can do all these things, but the risk is that, the void will. Will come out and. And, you know, cause all kind of havoc like it did in this film.

>> Sarah : Yeah. All right. Anything else?

>> Will: nah. I mean, like you said, you know, I think to our point where we're just saying how this film is resonating not only with us, but clearly it's, you know, resonating with, audits, ah, scores and the critics. So, you know, people are. People are. Are filling this film. This 87% does. I pull this from the Rotten Tomatoes this evening before recording and, you know, audience scores 94%, which, you know, it's not just anybody can just go on there and do it. You have to actually leave a score on the tomato meter. You actually have to, you have bought the ticket to do. To, to to, to enter that grade. So yeah, I mean I'm just really, really looking forward, really enjoyed this film. Of course we, we did have the, the two. The mid credits and in credit of course the end credit was filmed. The Russo brothers did that one to set up. Set up. You know, Dooms, Doomsday and and of course Fantastic Four. And you know, I just referenced about Bob being on the shelf, that we saw there at the end with the end credit there because of the wrist. It runs if if he, if he sentries out. So But yeah, really, like I said, I really. It was a. Texted you Saturday after I got out of the theater. I was like, it was a pleasant surprise.

>> Sarah : All right, Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?

>> Will: Yes, you can find me at Will and Polk. W I L L M M P.

>> Sarah : O L K and you can find me at SJ Belmont S J B L M O N T. Please follow our crew on Twitter at C. Seen a nerd on Blue sky at Scene N Nerd. And friend us on Facebook. Follow us on Instagram and threads at scene._n_nerd and visit our website www.uhcinerdpodcast.com. but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome. SA.