Andor's Character Depth and Moral Dilemmas | S2 Episodes 4-6

>> Will: Foreign.

>> Sarah : Nerds. This is Scene  N nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight, Will?

>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. Happy Star Wars Day to Revenge of the fifth.

>> Sarah : So what's tomorrow?

>> Will: Revenge, of the sixth. So some people like, you know, of course we had Star Wars Day yesterday. May the fourth be with. With you. Belatedly, of course, Revenge of the fifth. But some people also, also celebrate revenge of the 6th. So I guess the Sith, you know, depending on like, you know how you. You want to celebrate your Sith Lord, you can do it today or you can do it tomorrow.

>> Sarah : Weird, weird, weird.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. There's no hard and fast rules. I think anyone, anybody who can make an Internet holiday, they will do so.

>> Sarah : Yeah. Well, regardless of the holidays, based on the days of the week, it is Monday and we are recording a very special episode because we had three big properties to talk about this week. So we decided to start the week off with Andor. And tomorrow night we will be discussing the Last of Us as well as, Thunderbolts. And So we have three episodes, all of which I consumed on May 4th. So I was celebrating in a way.

>> Will: Yeah, you were.

>> Sarah : I, I was. so Will, what. What do you. What are your thoughts about these three episodes?

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. So I really, really enjoyed these three episodes. I think the series, you. Each arc has a way of basically telling. Telling different types of stories, whether it's a very you mix of adventure or if it's But this one really thought that it really. The three f. The themes that really just stuck out to me with this, with this arc was really the rebellion and resistance, the themes of trust and the themes of sacrifice and loss. And I think each one of the. This whole arc really explored that it slowed down. I thought we really got more into the. The more. A bit more character driven arc. And with. With this one especially, like I was thinking about our conversations we had last week with about like the editing, for example, at the end of the third episode in the first arc and how they were jumping back and forth between my motha's wedding party with her for her daughter and the. The things that were going on on the Harvest, world. But here I thought it was much more. A slower pace, more getting into the lives of the. Of our characters and we'll, you know, we'll get into some of those points as far as like, you know, for example, Cassian and big shopping and, and things like that, so, so I really felt it was a more character driven arc. Not that the other ones haven't been, but I think, we. Some of the things that have happened up to this point in the series, we really got to spend some, some real time with them and some of the impacts of, of things that happen to some of our characters.

>> Sarah : Yeah. So I think Cassie and Vix is a good place to start. I mean we, we literally start with them. They're held up. It's a year later after the events of the first three episodes and they're are in Coruscant in a safe hot house that was set up by Lutheran. Bix is still dealing with, PTSD from her experience with Dr. Gross. And Cassian is, continues to be trying to protect her and trying to understand with what's going on and, and fix it. but you can tell that them being on missions has also worn down where, where there was an incident off screen, involving a soldier who Cassian kills because he sees Bix's face. So we deal with that in the second episode. Lutheran visits Bix, because Bix is also taking some quote unquote medicine.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : He's doing some drugs. and then by the end of, by the third episode, Vix and Cass or Bix gets her revenge on Dr. Gross. yeah, I'm like back and forth about, about Vix and Cassian. I will be honest. The whole time I'm watching this, like. And, and if anybody remembers last week, the big stuff I found to be the most interesting, I think why I, it didn't work for me as much in these three episodes is because it wasn't Bix alone dealing with, was Bix and Cassian and, and someone, brought up to me that Rogue One recently.

>> Will: I wonder who. I wonder who.

>> Sarah : Yeah, I wonder who. So the whole time I'm watching these three episodes I'm just like, well, I don't know how much I can invest in Bix because I don't know if she's gonna die. But I do know that these two are not gonna be together. Or else, like in his final moments, he, he cheated on her. And I don't know how to feel about that. So, so like, what are we doing here? And, and it was weird. I don't, I don't know if anybody else felt this way. I'm sure I'm in the minority most of the time. I am with Star wars, but a lot of the time the scenes between them there was like this, oh my God, I'm so in love with you. And then immediately it flipped to we're arguing. Like it was just, it was whiplash. And it was so. And it took. And all of the things took place within like the span of five minutes. And I'm just like. You were just like making out, getting ready to knock some boots, and, and now all of a sudden you're, you're arguing, about the same thing. And I get it, but I also, I also am like, okay, okay, this is kind of a repetitive argument. Hopefully we don't get that argument in the future. I, I think we will. But, So, so that, that was kind of my stuff where it, it piqued my interest. But as the episodes went on and the, the more scenes between them, I just became too much of a, Like, so are we, are we rooting for you too? Are we not? Like, like what is going on?

>> Will: Yeah, I mean, I, I see what you're saying about the dynamics in their relationship, because you're right. I mean they're, it's. It's one of those things where I guess Cassian was very concerned, you know, clearly concerned about her because of all the things that have happened. And you're right. I mean, every, each one of the episodes there was a flashpoint of whenever Cassian and, and Bix were together. the first episode there's so, you know, they were having discussions about the safe house and whether or not they should decorate it and you know, make it more of their own. And you know, and then when they went out to the market to, to do. To try to have a normal life. I guess this is. To me, I get it was both of them. The, the, the, the, the rebellion and the acts that they are, are doing are impacting them in different ways. And, and for, for Bix. Yes, you're right. You know, we do see at the end she does self medicate because of the trauma that she is feeling, the guilt that she is feeling like, you know, you know, losing her in some respects, I think she's like losing herself because, you know, whenever she does question Cassian about why did you kill him? And, and was it necessary? You know, is. She's really wrestling with the. I guess internally she's wrestling like what separates me from this guy that we just killed. So. And I think, you know, and Cassian, on the other hand, is very clearly protective. Very. When, When Lutheran wants him to do the mission to go to Gorham, he, he. He's very concerned about, you know, what's going to happen with Bix, because, and, and, and, and, and then whenever, you know, Lutheran shows up and has that conversation with, With Bix and, And then Cassian finds out the third episode, you know, he just gets all possessive and weird and like, lose it. Loses. Lose this control to the point where he just, like, goes to the. Goes to Lutheran shop. And Lutheran's like, dude, get it. You know, get a, Get a hold of yourself. Get it. Get a grip on things. Because you're, you're jeopardizing, you're, you're running a risk of jeopardizing our whole operation because, because you're letting your attachments, like, run rampant here. So it's, you know, so, so it's, you know, it's a lot of themes that we, We've seen before in Star wars about attachment and, and mission and not letting attachments getting. Drive your. Drive your motivations or drive your. Drive your passions. Because, you know, we obviously see when it's not, like, checked well, it's because.

>> Sarah : It'S a time of war. I mean, I, I do think I like the first episode out of these three the best because it's the most quotable episode for me. And one of the quotes that I did notate was by Bixby, and it's the first of many versions of this argument. And she says, but if it's war, it's not up to us what we save and what we lose. I don't, I don't think she, she's debating, well, what separates me from that soldier. It's more about the value of life. Like, yeah, he saw my face. But, and, and automatically you decided that his life. His life was, like, worth less than. Or, worth. Yeah, less than mine. And she, she didn't know how to reconcile that. And, And I also think that, like, like, you're right to an extent that, like, she's being forced into this soldier mentality that she was not prepared for and doesn't know how to deal with that. Plus the. Just the PTSD from everything with gross. I mean, that, that got layered on and Cassian, like, there's an echo. And maybe that's also why I like the first episode. The first. And, and that's where I was all right with these two, which slowly faded. It's because I, I think that, that it's true. Like, we've seen these themes before. They've been played out. I think they got very, like, we've seen this before. Why are we still having the same argument. And it's an echo of what was captured, I think much more interestingly and much more like in a unique way with Mon Mothma in the previous episode because she's having to sell, sell. She's having to sacrifice her dear old friend. Like, and it was just. And it wasn't even like he fully turned. Like, like they didn't know. But, but Lutheran is like, no, you gotta go. Can't take the risk. And, and, and the way they played out her whole grief during that dance sequence I thought was brilliant. So, so then to have that theme get carried over into Cassie and Bix and it just to feel like very similar conversations and also to an extent, I'm not really sure. I don't really feel like either one of them had like strong arguments because I felt like they were both flip flopping like, like Cassie's like, like, oh yeah, we gotta be normal. Like the city is here. And then Bix is like, like we can't go to the walk. Like neither one of them were, were like understood anything about how to make this right for each other. so. Or make this situation feel like the home that they wanted it to be. Or. I don't, I don't even know. But there was a lot, there was too much. not unders. I don't know. It just. It felt messy.

>> Will: Yeah, that's a, that's a great way to describe it. It's very, it's very messy. It really is. And you know, I think to your point, like we're trying to make it home and you're right. Whatever. Cassian was like, it's Coruscant. I mean we can just make ourselves, you know, it's a big, you know, it's a big planet. We could just really, you know, escape into and just be having normal life. But then even, but even whenever he was trying, they were trying to do that, you know, he couldn't even go to the grocery shop and not feel like the, the, you know, the shopkeeper.

>> Sarah : Was like interrogated paranoia. Like and rightfully so based off of the events from the previous season. I mean, the kid got sent to jail.

>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah. So it's like the only time he, you know, whenever it's. Even though like you said, the point of he's so protective, of Brit Bix and everything. But but it wasn't until he did get the mission to go to, to Gorham where he was actually able to, to relax and, and just do the job and it's Almost like maybe that's. Maybe. Maybe that's the therapy for him is to. To be able to. To fall into. Into the work and. And that. That. That's just how he. How he. How he copes with things.

>> Sarah : Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I. I, think I was more using the word messy in terms of the. What exactly the writers are trying to do throughout these three episodes with these two characters. I mean, yes, to an extent, the whole attachment in the Time of War and all of that, but I think the themes just got messy and the perspectives got messy and. And why I really feel strongly about that is because for some reason, like, I think the best arc in these three episodes have to do with Cyril.

>> Will: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

>> Sarah : And because, like, take it for the Empire to have like, a very clean and clear, like, trajectory in their arc and. But also simultaneously, the way they wrote. They. The way they wrote Cyril, I, like, Gorman was also kind of like, wait, why is he. Why is he acting like this? And like, the. I just was so impressed by. By the. The chess moves between not only Cyril, but Deirdre. I mean, by the end of it, Major, I'm just gonna call him Major P. Because no way in hell I'm gonna pronounce that correctly. Oh, part of Gas Partagas. Like, told her. Told her, like, Cyril can never know about what's. What we're really doing. And I was just like, oh, damn. Like, it's a, triple. And yet we know from previous episode that she clearly cares about him. Like, I don't know, there was just something very much more subtle while. While being very clear and concise about everything they did with the Major, Deirdre and Cyril through these three episodes.

>> Will: I, completely agree. Yeah. I mean, I think that that, to me, that was the strongest arc of. Of the series as well, because we, you know, we do get a more confident. The spycraft. And that's one of the things I was also thought that was woven really, really well in the. In these episodes, the spycraft on both sides, whether it's, whether it's the rebellion or the isb. But Cyril bit to play that role and, and also being able to, you know, whenever we. Whenever we get him in this, you know, this first episode, he's. He knows he's being monitored, he knows he's being followed. And the confidence when he's talking to his mother, like, because he was all, you know, it was. It was convincing. Oh, I. You know, it was. And I guess, you know, and it was I could see how. Especially, you know, one of the things that, I thought, you know what that the Major told, the one Imperial later in the episode, as far as, you know, calibrate your enthusiasm. It was like. It was like a. It was a M to me. It was like a good reference to like several M people that. That could apply to in this episode. M serial, Cereal being one of them. But, especially, Especially like whenever he had that moment, whenever he was, you know, in the. In the hall there and they, You know, they. They, you know, the Major congratulates him for getting him the information. And you know, he was like, this is the. The proudest day of my life.

>> Sarah : Well, no, he said, if I say this is the proudest day of my life, will I have ruined everything? And then they cut. Cut scene. I. I agree. But to go back to Edie, like. And I think it was her. Her, dialogue too, that just really sold this. But we also know, like, it wasn't like planned. This is just Edie. But I love this one line she says to him during that phone conversation. When we find out that in the second episode that. That Cyril is now, the head of the Bureau of Standards on in Gorman. And he. And she says, Because in response to. In Response to Cyril saying this place is hardly a threat to the Empire, Edie says, don't become too much of an individual, Cyril.

>> Will: Yep.

>> Sarah : I just like. It's one word in that sentence, the use of individual. I'm just like there. There's subtlety, nuance, and that's impactful because that's. That's exactly like the whole point about this. I mean the. The dictatorship of. That the Empire represents and that ideology. It. It's so against freedom and individuality. I was just like, that is so good.

>> Will: It was. That was just so many levels and it was a. So, you know, so convincing to. As far as like when the people. The Gorman Front were listening in and. And especially. I love that.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. Rylands is even like his mother is horrible. They're so funny. And. And then to go into the sequence of like. Because. Yes, yes. they make it clear that Cyril knows he's being watched. But the way they play it all out is much later that until you. You get shown and it's proven. Proven that he is sending this d. This information to Deirdre. And. And so before that you see him go to a meeting of the Gorman Front and the way they did the lighting, the cinematography of that whole sequence as well as the performances. The fact that Gorman spoke in a different language. Oh, it was. Was. Holocaust gave me. Holocaust feels for sure like it gave me. People are feeling like they are having to go in hiding. Like the propag. It just. It worked on so many levels, that whole sequence.

>> Will: Yeah, it did. I mean. Yeah, the gor. Yeah, the language, you know, you know, I thought, you know, the, I did watch the Declassified. they've had some after shows with Andor this season and they were talking about the. You know, you brought up the language and I just wanted to bring this up real quick. They based it off of French. and. And yeah, and you could probably hear a little bit into a little bit if you go back and watch, you know, when we see it in subsequent episodes. But but also just the vibe and you know, and also we, you know, we learned in the first episode, but the Ministry of Enlightenment was going to, you know, was going to push this rebellion, push, you know, this front forward to like, help drive the imperial narrative about this place. And of course you brought up beautifully, like Edie's comments as far as, like, you know, what she, you know, what she was, you know, saw in the news. And they're tying those things back to, you know, tying that together, showing. That's one other thing I really like about this series too is, you know, they put something. They do follow up on things that they. They put out there. So it was. It was. So we saw the payoff a year later of him being placed there.

>> Sarah : well, I think. I think him being placed there had more to do with Deirdre because, like, there were two different schemes during that meeting. There was the Enlightenment, the propaganda and the stuff. And. And you can hear that not only from Edie, but. And. And I think that's more important like. Like that propaganda is being fed to everyone outside of Gorman. Right. And then on Gorman you have this other Deirdre plan, which she told Krennic, like, you. You. What you actually want is for the rebellion to To win a little. And then that way when they lose, everyone can be on your side still, like thinking like. And. And the way they played that and executed that, out. It was done so well because you remember it, but simultaneously, the way they. They fleshed that out, it. It was. It. It felt like they were playing their cards at the. At just the right times to really spell out what was actually happening.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. And also. Yeah. And also just. And also using the. That The. The enthusiasm to. To really drive. To drive Events and especially, you know, I think back to, like I said, the conversations that Krennic and Dedra had earlier on and, And. And also, whenever she was, You know, whenever Tartagas was like, look, Gorman's a gift. You know, whenever she was still, you know, she was. Yeah, yeah, part, you know, it was like people were like, you know, this is like a, you know, is this. Is this a demotion? And even like, Edie was like, you know. You know, you know, to their point about their conversation too. You know, Cyril's like, very proud of this thing and she's just like, you know, this is like. It's, not. It's not a backwater on the Outer Rim, but, you know, she's still trying to poo poo the fact that he was on that planet, for. For her own ends, but because, she just always tried to keep him. Try to keep him in his place. To your point about the, you know, the individual comment. But, yeah, I mean, it's just so. It was a such, you know, again, as I raised before, as far as, you know, calibrate enthusiasm. I mean, Cyril was like, so super, super enthusiastic about, you know, playing this role, you know, being, you know, and he's also, because of what Deadre told his mom, like, you know, back off. But now, you know, Cyril has now replaced Edie with Dedra as far as just always trying to seek that approval. and, and. And so, you know, he, you know, so whenever he's like, reporting back to her what's going on on the planet, it's. It's really, you know, he's. He's trying to get her approval. And then also the other thing too is just, you know, carrying things forward. Like whenever he, Whenever he set up the. The communications bug in his, you know, he. He let the ISB find the bug, you know, in his office and, and just to help carry. Carry the mission forward. So again, I think all those other elements of spycraft are just really, I think, you know, from the. From the Empire's perspective or. And. And propaganda was right. I just really, really liked how they just made it this very. Yeah. So was there not. No. Clearly wasn't as much action, except until we get to the third episode. But all these other. All these other levels were just, to me, were just what really got me engaged and. And kept me like, really on the edge of my seat as I was watching. Watching Cyril's, journey in the. In this. In this arc.

>> Sarah : I don't think he was Overly enthusiastic, I think he was. So he. It was. It's interesting because, like, he. He would have these moments. And Deirdre, which. Which I don't. I don't know if it's him seeking her approval so much as Deirdre has this ability to. To once she. I. There's. There's a line that she said that I can't find right now, but she's like, never seen him as happy. And I forget in what context she said that, but. But he. Like, she's able to reel him back in and. And it's the exact same thing that they parallel with what's going on with Ryland's leading this Gorman front where they sent Lutheran, sends Cassian in. Cassian should have been Deirdre. And he, He tried. He was. He was pointing things out. He was. But he was being a bit of an, He. He was also just like, you guys. You guys don't got your. Together. I can't help you. I got. I got other problems at home. And that's really why Lutheran was upset, is because, like, no, Cassie. And you actually can help them. You're just choosing not to, so. And unfortunately, that's what leads them to playing right into Deirdre's hands. Like, there's no one on their side who is coming in like a Deirdre and saying, you guys are missing the end, game here. Like, you're thinking short term. You're. You're. You're. You're. You're letting your anxiety about the timing wear too much on you to where you are going to trip up. And that's exactly how this all plays out. And man, if I hear any complaints about not enough action. Do you know how many episodes of TV I watch where I complain that there's 20 minutes of action and maybe. Maybe 10 minutes of dialogue? Like, good Lord, action is only worth it. Like, you can't have the spectacle without the substance. Like, you have to earn the spectacle with substance. So, yeah, I just, like, good Lord, go watch Rogue One.

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : There's an entire third act of action. Okay.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah. But. Yeah, but to your point, let's, you know, since we're on the Gorman story and you know, we do get, you know, you talk about Cassian and his role on the planet. You know, we do do get a little bit more history, you know, with, when Cassie is talking to the, To the bellhop, about, the Tarkin Massacre, which, was a very, they pulled. They pulled in the Legends because you know, because That was a story that when people. The first Gorman massacre was actually the Tarkin Massacre, in the Legends series, the Star wars. but they you know, retconned it twice. Once in Star Wars Rebels. I meant to say at the beginning of this, I'm going to be. There may be some moments where I will get into spoiler talk with things that happens in Star Wars Rebels that is running concurrent, in the timeline with with. With Andor. So just that meant to give that warning at the top. But you know, to your point about the events and Cassie being a jerk and talking to the Gorman folks, we do get that historical note about the Tarin event. And then, And. And to your point about how the Rebels on this planet are playing into the hands and because they didn't have their Deidra and Dedra and you know, Cassian was. Wasn't mentally there to do it. So by the time that Senta and Val come to the planet to like do the job, the, The. It was too late. because you know, they make it very, very clear to, To. To the front. Yes. You know, we'll, We'll. We'll take off. We'll take on this this, this convoy. We're going to get these, These items. But you know, they made it very clear here are the rules. But because of their undisciplined nature, they fall right into the Empire's hands. As far as, you know, it was just in. You know, again, going back to Cyril's story. I mean seeing Cyril like observe this whole thing just play out and he just the, The. The. The. The glee on his face like it's happening and this. The. The plan that was hatched is coming to fruition I thought was really, really. You know, again, I just. Really enjoyed just seeing that. And again it just really reinforces some of the. The overall themes that this, that. That That's. This arc was really trying to present, with. With both sides. You know. Yeah, having a different name, you know, having the similar. Similar goals. But you know, but the, the outcomes, you know, don't go. The outcome goes one way for one side and the other side not so much.

>> Sarah : Yeah. I mean, and. And why. Why they they both They both win. But the win is tarnished because someone did not listen to Vel clearly state, don't. Or Dylan did not listen to Vel clearly state, Nobody else but Vel and Cintra Cinta can have, blasters, and he has a blaster on him. He gets into a fight with one of the townsmen who we happened to see in a previous episode during the. The underground meeting. and. And he pulls out the blaster and accidentally they. They get in tussle, fire off a shot. It hits Citra, who. Who kind of knew like Citra or Vel were gonna die just because it felt like there was a pause after she said no one but us can have joy. These blasters. And they both shared like a meaningful moment in. In the leading up to this, like where they were reunited, they were getting their happily ever after. But we all know how Rogue One ends. Do we think that there's going to be much difference here? Like, come on. So, so it just. It. And it plays into the. Some. The things that we were already talking about with. With Bix and. And Cassian and. And maybe that's also what took away from the Bix and Cassian arguments was like. But here we clearly see it play out, which sometimes I don't want them to tell me what's happening. Like, the visual representation of, can be a lot more nuanced and everything. I also just hats off to the actress who plays Belle because she really did a good job in her. In her scene with Dylan of. Of holding in grief, being mad, but also not overdoing it. Yeah, it was. She. It was just the right mixture of everything. Like. And. And She allowed her words to mean more cutting than anything. So. So like, I. I thought that that was a really good, scene and performance there as well.

>> Will: yeah, I agree. I mean, I think, And I think to my point about earlier character driven and character growth, I think the vow of a year or so ago or even season one probably would have taken out a blaster and like just taking that guy out. But. But at the you. But to your point, I mean just her maturity. I think as far as. Just as we see the rebellion grow and people understanding, you know, now she gets it as far as like what Lutheran and even Sento were trying to tell her about the overall. Overall, you know, aim of what we're trying to do here, she. She gets it now. And so even though she is feeling that. That just the. The searing pain of losing someone, especially after they have, you know, finally. Finally did get back together and look like they were going to get their. Their happy moment, that's. That's been ended. and another thing too, I know. Just want to just touch on this real briefly. I think, you know, of course, there has been some discourse in the fandom as far as, like, okay, are we doing the barrier G gay trope? because this, we do have this cup gay couple who seems like they can't even have, have any happiness and stuff. But I, I see, I, I see, see that concern. I respect that concern. But I think in the overall story that they were telling here, whether it was, whether it was, everybody's going to get it at some point. I mean, there's no, like, to come to, you know, come to a, an end. So did it feel forced? or unearned maybe? I mean, you know, I felt, to me, I felt in the whole context of the story, it was a lot like Brasso's death, that in that, you know, there's not, sometimes there's not going to be. You go out in heroic blaze of glory. Sometimes it is going to be just an empty, hollow, you know, meaningless death. Because this is a messy business. so, so, so I get that concern.

>> Sarah : But yeah, I, I, I just want to say I'm not part of that community. If you're offended by what they did with that, then, then that's your right. If you, you're not, like, I didn't think of anything of it because, yeah, maybe that has to do with. Because I'm heterosexual, but I, I just, I get like, like what you're saying. I get it. But to me, I, I don't, I don't know.

>> Will: Like, yeah, to me, it's like the similar arguments that happened. I mean, I think the last two, you know, with these two arcs have been like, big flash points as far as the social commentary. People have, like, latched on to one. Last week was the attempted rape. This week it's just to bury your Gates trope.

>> Sarah : But I think what was the political, like, what was the bad thing about, like, I'm not saying that I don't know how to have this conversation, but what, what was the discussion last week about the potential.

>> Will: Oh, oh, just should it be a Star wars or not?

>> Sarah : Okay, like, like, yeah, wow.

>> Will: Wow.

>> Sarah : And, and, and, Will is telling this to me. Who, who is so critical of Star Wars? Like, oh, my God, I thought I was mean and bad, but wow. Like, like, okay, should that be in Star Wars? They didn't actually do it. And also, if you had a problem with that, you best be having a problem with what gross did her in the first season. Because that was mental rape. Do. Jesus Christ. And also, isn't this supposed to be, like, everyone is Always like, oh my God, andor's best show ever because it's grounded Star wars because it feels more real and then. But you can't put rape in it. And dear Lord, if you have two lesbian characters who are in a war who are clearly fighting for the rebellion and one of them dies during battle, like obviously just using that as a stereotype and a trope. Fairing the gays like, like, yeah, yeah,

>> Will: Yeah.

>> Sarah : I don't know. But like I said, I also feel uncomfortable talking about the, especially the barrier gays because I'm not part of that community. So.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I'm not a part of that community either. I just, I just, I just wanted to, I just, I like to have a full on discussion about all the things both story lines and also if there's any, any notable items that are that, that are being discussed on the, in the interwebs or in the discourse, I just wanted to acknowledge it. So, but you know, we can move on from it. But I just, like I said, I, I don't, I'm not a member of that community. I see where people were concerned about that. But I mean I could, as an African American, I could be like, oh yeah, they killed the blacks. So yeah, the black girl gets killed early. I mean it's just like, I guess, I guess it's just, you know, a lot of times it's. If you want. Again, I think in the context of the story that's being told, these things happen and people are going to die. And it has nothing to do with anything larger than that. Than just the fact that this is a very messy, messy business and people die.

>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

>> Will: But anyway.

>> Sarah : Okay, well, we got, we gotta speed up because you told me this is gonna be 20 minutes. We're on 40 minutes and we got like three more things to talk about. So. So like moving on from that point, my least favorite story arc of this entire show. I don't like Saw. I don't like Saw. I don't. He just slowed everything so down for me. And then I was like, Horace Whitaker, I love you, but no, no, no, no. Because he also. I haven't liked. I haven't like Saw in Rogue One. I don't remember liking him. And in season one, like, I just cannot connect his character. And so every, like last week we were talking about Krennic and we were talking about Ben Mendelson and his performance. And like I love Forest Whitaker, but there's something about the way he plays Saad that I'M just like, you're too much. You can't get into it. And it's just. You're annoying. Yeah, I do. I kind of get what you're trying to do, but it just drives me crazy. It's like nails on a chalkboard. And I'm like, we don't need this.

>> Will: Yeah, Saul's crazy. I mean, it basically like reinforces the. The point again that the. The wild cards of the Rebellion, you know, the, If no solid backstory, of course, you know, his sister, was killed in Clone Wars. he. From that point forward, he just loses it. And, and again, think watching Star Wars Rebels, they. They also explore this, This, this wild cardness and this, this, this, How, He's just. He's one that is just what. What you see in these episodes is the same in the animated universe and shows as well. So, you know, he's a very consistent character as far as driving. You know, of course that the gas was.

>> Will: We see why he looks like he does when we finally do meet him at. We. We do first, you know, meet him. We meet him in Rogue One. But, you know, the whole story with Wilman, I was just one. We were. I was wondering like what. What. What ended up happening to. To him. and we see that he's, you know, clearly he's still putting his mechanical skills to use, for. For Saul's team and Been the only. I mean only. And we can move on from salt Only. Other cool thing I thought was that, That whenever I was like. That base looks awful familiar. And you know, we definitely. It was used during this time period and of course later in the sequel, trilogy. It was also the same base, that we saw in the. For the Force Awakens. But Yeah, but you know, Saul is Solas Saul. And we'll just. We'll probably get more of him as we, As we move forward.

>> Sarah : so then the la. That leaves us with, Mon Mothma and. And that is all I got.

>> Will: Yeah. M. I. I like Mon's story in this one, especially with the, you know, we see her whipping votes for, you know, trying to, You know, she's like, for example, talking to the Gorman senator as far as, you know, and others with the, Trying to get the poured, the The Public ordinance, Resistance Directive repealed. you know, because again, there was the whole. Did a whole discussion as far as, What did she say as far as, Are we. Are we finding criminals? Are we making Them.

>> Sarah : Yeah. So at the end with Krennic because they're going through an ideology exchange that's kind of mirrored to everything that's going on with Gorman, and, and the Luthien, Gyla stealing back the listening device.

>> Will: Yeah, yeah, she uses her. Yeah used her approach to try to get that back because they of course they were, you know, Scudder was I guess worried about the artifacts and stuff. So. Yeah, so they. Yeah, so they had to get the artifact out. So there was a lot of things going on there. the other cool thing too is just, you know, if I notice other points that was made of. With the. We do get the. The recast of Benjamin Brett as Bill Organa taken over for. For Jimmy Smith due to scheduling reasons and you know, sense why they. They just had the little quick scene with Mon and, and. And Scene N Organa. Just so that Just given clearly the key role that the Scene N plays and that Belarna plays in the Star wars mythos, better just to get it now, rip the band aid off, have the store, you know. Yep. We recast them and listen, when we see him in the next two arcs, we don't have to go spend time on oh, where's Jimmy Smith? So. But that was that, you know, so, so, you know, so I think there was that. I really did enjoy like the, the back and forth argument between you know, Krennic and, And Mon and just the philosophical debates. And again just again we see that her pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing more towards just being out, in the, in the Rebellion. And then also, and then also just you know, again the political machinations of the Senate just basically is just there in. In name only at this point the Emperor just continues to like, make it more just a, A Just a rubber stamping body to the point that of course by the time we get to A New Hope, you know, Tarkin, you know, shares with everyone on the Death Star that the. The Senate's been dissolved. So you know, so we do. We see. We do see that evolution of that, as. As the story goes and you know all the senators just are there to have. Have grand parties and get sworn in, but that's about it.

>> Sarah : Yeah, I mean the, The Chronic and Mon Mothma stuff was great mainly because it's just dialogue and those two are just such great actors and in these, in these roles that I mean there's so many quotable lines, especially from Krennic. I mean criminals love to lie. After all, who wants to Die for lawless ineptitude. And then Krennic also says, mainly it's critic. And. And I think that's kind of why, like, I liked Mon Mothma, but I didn't. I didn't think she had a whole lot going on. She was just really showing how. How the propaganda. I mean, this entire three episodes is really kind of showing how this is how the Empire remains in control, remains power, because, like, they're planting these other seeds and they're these other plans that are coming through. So. So it. It very much felt like Mon Mothma, coming right after the wedding was like, not coming home to anything great either. You sacrifice your dear old friend. Friend, only to come home and realize, like, you don't got control in the Senate anymore. People are leaving your allies, like, they're being convinced their loyalties with the Empire, and. And then you get into a sparring match with Krennic, and. I'm sorry, Krennic, actually, I think he might have won that too, because. Because he. He says, I, like this line as well. My rebel is your terror terrorist or. Or something like that. And that, like. Like, it's so good. It is just clear, concise, and, yeah, on the nose. But I think that you. You have. You have the subtletiness with the moves and the spy and the, And the covert operations with Deirdre and Cyril that you can have Krennic actually point things out. So. Cartoon villain on the nose, but it's coming from Ben Mendelsohn, so it's like, okay, this is a dramatic acting, and. And so. And, like, it's just so good. And. And we got all of the messy, weird dialogue with the, About. About the PTSD of being soldiers with Big Vixen and, Cassian. So, I mean, my. My final thing that I just want to say about these three episodes, and arguably the first three episodes, is I just don't know why Cassian remains to be in. Like. Like, continues to be like the character I'm drawn to the least. I just. And I love him in Rogue One, but I'm just like. And. And I. I. Yes, to an extent, this plays into. I. I have a tendency never to really like the main characters. It's like that. That, That Seinfeld effect where everyone else around them is so crazy and interesting, and they get it. Like, he has to be the straight man. And so you're just like, okay, you're a bit boring. So. So that's the. That's the one thing. I just Want to leave on. Will you got any final thoughts and then we can wrap it up for tonight?

>> Will: Yeah, we could. Yeah, we could wrap it up. Yeah. I mean I, I think just to piggyback off of your thought, I think that's by. I think that's by design. I mean they've just built such a, just a rich world, you know, with these, these characters. I mean we've, you know, we know where Cassian's journey ends. So I think for me it's, it's like the destination to, to get to that to. To the end of the journey. It's just paid was just such rich characters like as you mentioned, Krennic and Dedra and all these other people that we've been. And Cyril that yeah, there are. You know, I'm enjoying learning about all these, all these people and, and so that by the time we get to the Cassiana Rogue one, yeah, you know, we get some good moments with him. But these other supporting characters just really contextual. It helps contextualize why we, you know, why we have a character that we, that we see there you know, in that movie. So I'm, I'm really enjoying this series and looking glad we. Glad we had we you know, set aside time just to, to talk about these these three episode arc. This three episode arc because it was really. It does feel like a, you know, mini movie in and of itself.

>> Sarah : and people who, people who have listened to us Talk Andor Season 1, please let me know if Will told me that when we were discussing season one because it felt very deja vu. M Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?

>> Will: Yes, you can find me on all the socials at ah, Will and Polk. W, I L L M P O.

>> Sarah : L K. And you can find me there too at SJ Belmont, sjblmo and T. Please follow our crew on X, formerly known as Twitter at Scene and Nerd on Blue sky and friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene, underscore n, underscore nerd and visit our website www.scenanerdpodcast.com. but most importantly, rate following, comment on Apple podcast sponsors, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.