Governing Is Harder Than Conquering | House of the Dragon Season 3 Episode 3

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>> Will: Foreign.

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>> Sarah : Nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah

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Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr.

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Producer, will Will Polk How are you doing

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tonight, Will.

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>> Will: Doing very well. I just have to say this week of

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House of the Dragon, just. They gave me thoughts

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of the old saying from Henry iv, Uneasy lies the

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head, the wears the crown. But also I was having

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some flashback moments too, for things that

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actually have happened in my life that I could

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kind of. I had sympathy for Nera and some people

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I've worked for in my professional life. So, yeah,

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I have lots of thoughts about this episode tonight

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that we're going to be talking about.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. we are talking about.

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House of The Dragon Season 3, Episode 3 Rhaenyra

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Triumphant. Rhaenyra learns the situation in

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King's Landing is not what she anticipated. Unable

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to locate enemies and with demands coming from all

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sides, Rhaenyra must navigate a delicate balance

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between appeasing her supporters and consolidating

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her rule. Written by Sarah Hess and directed by

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Claire Kleiner Only this is the only second time

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that House of Dragon has used a cold open than the

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first time was the pilot points out Will.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean that was. I don't

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know if you. You notice that I thought about you

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last night whenever I was watching the episode

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because there was the cold open there. Because I

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was like, this is, this is not usual for game.

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For. For this universe.

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>> Sarah : No, I mean, of course I noticed it. yeah. And then

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later on there's other things that happen that

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remind you of that. I mean, it sticks out, the

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whole references to ghosts in this, this castle

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and memories of a young girl. I didn't, I don't

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view that as a cold open. In my opinion. It felt

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more like a, a thesis statement at the very

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beginning. where it was just like

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>> Will: m

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>> Sarah : getting you into that mentality that we're going

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about to spend this entire episode with Rhaenyra

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and, and, and view it from a perspective of

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someone who is grieving, who's got what she

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wanted, and, and is dealing with a lot of internal

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struggles as much as being faced with all sorts of

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different demands, as she puts on the crown. So I,

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I liked the idea. I just don't view it as a cold

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open. Do you. Do you remember what the cold open

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was for from the pilot?

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>> Will: Yeah, it was whenever. Set this whole. The whole

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thing up where, it was the flashback whenever they

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passed over Rhaenys. for. For, Viserys.

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>> Sarah : Oh, yeah. Okay.

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>> Will: Yeah. Okay.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah.

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And so just to dive Right in, we're gonna start

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with Team Queen. Team Queen. Part of the joy I'm

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having with this right now is just coming up with

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the names. Yeah, yeah, they're gonna dive a little

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bit.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like the team names you come

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up with.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. So, with Team Queen, we're gonna talk about

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the fact that Thailand Lannister smuggled away a

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bunch of gold from the throne. I. I was like. I

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was like, you know what? That adds up, right? Why,

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of course he. He would do that. And,

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so now, despite Rhaenyra, who's coming in and she.

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Throughout the episode, you see this. She is

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consistently trying to act, like, from when she

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was a girl being trained by her father to now,

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like, no time has passed and everything is right

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in the world again and nothing has happened. And

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so to find that, oh, you want to throw this big

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ceremony, but you can't afford it. Oh, you want to

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find the. One of the lines that I stuck out to me

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that I liked was just the nod of, like, and we'll

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pay a bounty to whoever finds the writer of Sea of

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Sheep, stealer. And it's like, what. What bounty?

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Like, what are you talking about? Like. And then

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it just keeps coming, and they're. They allow,

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like, that whole dynamic with the. With the money

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and the resources, to play out, but while also

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simultaneously they do little things with, at the

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very beginning of the episode in the terms of,

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hey, we're running low on candles. so as the

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episode goes on, you notice there's a lot of.

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There's a lot more shadows. There's a lot more

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like a person walking the halls in the middle of

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the night because of their. Their resources in

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that area are depleting, and they can only do. And

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then the same thing with the rats. I mean, we all.

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Yeah, with the rats. They. Though. That comes from

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season two, which we know what happened with the

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rat catchers. And then so to. It just adds. It

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allows this castle that we think that we've known

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for a while to be painted in a very much more

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darker, place. Which plays into the whole idea of

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this episode and what I like to call Rhaenyra's

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psychosis. Like, I could also point out, like,

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this whole idea reminded me so much of later

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episodes in Citizen One with Viserys and just how

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he also. Time was wearing on him. Age was wearing

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on him, and physically and mentally, he was just

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deteriorating day after day. And she's kind of

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bombarded with it. It's a. It's a very interesting

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play on all of that.

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but what are some of your thoughts there?

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think you, You, You. You hit

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like a lot of the atmospherics of it, you know,

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And I think, you know, one of the things too is

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how I think. I think they were anticipating and I

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think. And for, you know, again, we're. We're non

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book readers, so we don't, you know, as far as how

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soon the King Slanding returns to her, as far as

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the timing of, you know, the, the thing went down

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with Allison that they agreed to, you know,

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because we were thinking like, okay, this is going

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to be a big protracted war. And I know they, I

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know they chopped off one of the battles, but you

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know, you know, you had the Battle of Gullet and

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then next thing you know, by episode two, we're.

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They are back in Kings now Queen, King's Landing,

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Queenslanding, and back in the Red Keep. And you

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realize like, all, you know, there's really no

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like, preparation time and, and then as far as the

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people who could have been her, like, proverbial

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transition team because of all the things that

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happened with Chase, you know, she doesn't trust

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her council anymore.

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>> Sarah : So, yeah, that was a huge thing.

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>> Will: Yeah. So, like, all the things that you would have

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that, that a, you know, incoming leader would have

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to do a transition of power is gone. So, I mean,

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so I liked how you like, you know, framed how dark

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the castle was and, and you're seeing like, in all

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the things that were going on in the background

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throughout the episode, you know, all the, the

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green tapestries being pulled down, like you said,

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the darkness of the, of the. Of the castle because

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a, attendance and stuff are not there to be able

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to do their things. the, you know, and also just,

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you know, and also seeing how both she. And

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thinking back to season two Agon, whenever, they

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had their first, meeting of hearing the petitions

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from the small folk and, and how they both, you

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know, both of them wanted to start out on a good

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foot by being a very. Look like a very benevolent,

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ruler.

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>> Sarah : Right.

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>> Will: And then, you know, and then of course Otto and

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then also Corus both playing like, you know, so,

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you know, I think about that, you know, as I was

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saying earlier, I've had some experience with,

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with someone I've worked with in my professional

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life in the past, where you're coming in with

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like, such great plans and, you know, and, and,

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and with transitions and things you want to do and

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then all of a sudden, because of, you know,

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economic conditions and other things like that,

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all the grand plans you were hoping to do are just

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completely or completely washed and washed away

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because of circumstance. And I think, you know,

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and Rhaenyra. Ah. And some of it is part of her

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own making, too. Because of the block.

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>> Sarah : yeah, I was. I was just gonna say, like, it's

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fascinating how much there's a. There's a fine

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line that they walk throughout this episode in

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terms of. Some of it was created with. From the

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High Towers, right. And then some of it. And. And

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the Lannisters, Thailand. I'm talking about you.

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But. But others. Other circumstances that she's

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confronted with is. Is very much of her own

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creation. This whole. And. And that's why I. I

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don't mind this whole thing with the petition and

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the. And the fact that, yes, you. You. The

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blockade has been lifted. However, while you were.

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While. When you did that, you made us even more

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poor because all of the. All of the people, all of

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the nobles, like, took all the resources because

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there wasn't a lot to go around. And suddenly the.

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The poor got more poor and the richer got richer.

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And. And it was. And it was interesting to, To see

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that play out from the circumstance of. Like you

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said, Rhaenyra wanted to start off on the good

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foot. So she hears about it, she weighs her

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options, and then she decides to hold a banquet.

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And she. Then the moment the food comes out, you

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know, you're like, wait a second. something,

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something. And then they lift the plates, and it's

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like, yeah, I got rats. And. And she informs them

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that, yeah, my. My guards are right now getting

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everything that you took away from others, and

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we're gonna spread the wealth. But then

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immediately, right when you think she has some

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sort of win, she's confronted with a noble who's

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like, oh, that. That's cool. Do what you got to

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do. Queen. All hail. but just so you know, they

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may or they may not forget that it was your

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blockade to start with. Like, it's just a

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reminder. These economic conditions that you talk

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about were created because of this war. This war

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was started because of Rhaenyra, arguably because

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of Viserys, but it was.

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>> Will: Or else.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. an internal feud. So you're. You're

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being confronted with the ramifications, even more

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so, while dealing simultaneously with the grief

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and the guilt. And there's nothing like mom guilt

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of your son's death. And. And so the fact that

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they put that little thing in there that, makes.

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Makes Rhaenyra's first, hearing of the positions

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very different than Aegon's. The moment she's

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like, oh, oh, I'm bleeding.

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>> Will: Yes, yes.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, it's. It's just a great reminder of some of

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the added things that are on her just because of

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her gender.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought that was. I thought

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that was a. That was a brilliant touch. I thought

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just, Yeah, just like you said, because of her

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gender, the things beyond, you know, and you know,

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on top of all the other personal challenges, that

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she's dealing with as far as the losing family

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members and you know, and, and you know, not

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having a. Having a transition team, you know.

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Yeah. She has Damon, she has the white worm, which

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I really like the role that the white worm was

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playing and all this too, as far as just, having,

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you know, as far as being her. One of her, you

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know, counselors and, and. And giving her some

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just good practical tips as far as like, you know,

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get, you know, get some. Get some easy wins here

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at the beginning and you know, so of course,

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which, you know, led to. Led to the banquet and

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things like that.

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But then also, this Rhaenyra and Damon's

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conversation. And I love. I always love when they,

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when they speak in high Valerian, on the balcony

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there. And, and his, and his, you know, the might

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versus right. And you know, him just, you know,

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it's like we have an arsenal here. We can just go

245
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out, conquer all of the seven. You. We can go out

246
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and capture the Free cities and Essos and all, you

247
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know, just the whole realm. And, and, and. And

248
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this is where I think Viserys Tutelage of Rhaenyra

249
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was coming through. One. One of the. Another one

250
00:14:18,030 --> 00:14:19,670
of the examples. I mean, I think one of the

251
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:21,950
earlier examples was just trying to be a good, you

252
00:14:21,950 --> 00:14:23,790
know, be a good person to the small folk, you

253
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know, just to get those easy wins. But then also,

254
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you know, I think we. We talked about this maybe

255
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in the first episode. Just because you have these

256
00:14:31,530 --> 00:14:35,890
dragons, you know, we. We don't. You know, you

257
00:14:35,890 --> 00:14:38,010
have. There's the illusion of control of these

258
00:14:38,010 --> 00:14:42,020
dragons, but at the end of the day, you know,

259
00:14:42,020 --> 00:14:44,860
what. What good would it be to go out and just go

260
00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:47,740
scorched earth and then you just basically burn

261
00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:49,780
everything down and all you're basically is ruling

262
00:14:49,780 --> 00:14:51,820
over is a bunch of ashes because you dropped

263
00:14:51,980 --> 00:14:55,130
essentially the nuclear bomb all throughout the

264
00:14:55,130 --> 00:14:58,080
realm. So, which, you know, I really liked how

265
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they had that, you know, that, that framing, that

266
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renewals like no, let's just be more measured to

267
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Damon.

268
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>> Sarah : Yeah, I. I really was fascinated by this

269
00:15:09,690 --> 00:15:12,890
conversation, especially because they again,

270
00:15:13,210 --> 00:15:20,840
inserted a good, like, introductory, introduction

271
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to this conversation when she was talking to the

272
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,640
High Specter and he shares his thoughts. And you

273
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,640
could even argue that I think us just having

274
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covered a Night of the Seven Kingdoms earlier this

275
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year is also a very much a show that goes into

276
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:44,230
exactly what they talk about on, And. And there's

277
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two sides and. And we're talking about two people

278
00:15:47,150 --> 00:15:49,430
who are married, two people who are also related

279
00:15:49,430 --> 00:15:54,670
to each other, but two people are. And who are in

280
00:15:54,670 --> 00:16:01,030
power and who have power and, and now have the

281
00:16:01,030 --> 00:16:04,110
highest power, yet they also have even a higher

282
00:16:04,190 --> 00:16:06,830
power because they can, quote, unquote, control

283
00:16:07,390 --> 00:16:08,350
the dragons.

284
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>> Will: So.

285
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>> Sarah : So it's interesting because you see throughout

286
00:16:13,250 --> 00:16:16,130
this episode, since this conversation is kind of

287
00:16:16,130 --> 00:16:22,730
like three fourths of the way through, and she has

288
00:16:22,810 --> 00:16:24,970
been through it, and she's like, this is day one.

289
00:16:25,290 --> 00:16:29,580
This is like my first week on the job. I'm. I'm.

290
00:16:29,580 --> 00:16:32,650
M. Bleeding right now. I'm grieving a son. And

291
00:16:32,650 --> 00:16:36,570
you're talking about going out and doing more like

292
00:16:36,970 --> 00:16:42,440
we. We. So. So she's dealing with the reality of

293
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,880
their situation more so than him, who is still

294
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,920
relishing in the victory and still the fantasy

295
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,320
that they could get more. And I think that is just

296
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,640
a. That's always been a perspective difference

297
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,400
between these two and has caused a lot of issues

298
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,900
and then to just have this. Because up until that

299
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:10,740
point, though, the writers have done a good job of

300
00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:16,990
reminding you just how loyal he is to her. and.

301
00:17:16,990 --> 00:17:22,910
And how much he does protect her. So I. I think

302
00:17:22,910 --> 00:17:26,910
that is important, considering a lot of the second

303
00:17:26,910 --> 00:17:30,870
season, they were apart. And so now that they're

304
00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:34,310
back together, where we're seeing a lot of their

305
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:37,390
relationship, why they got together to begin with,

306
00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:40,890
and then at the same time, we're. We're presented

307
00:17:40,890 --> 00:17:43,450
with this conversation, this very mature

308
00:17:43,450 --> 00:17:48,890
conversation, and it's just how you wield the

309
00:17:48,890 --> 00:17:52,540
power. and. And I love the fact he points out

310
00:17:52,540 --> 00:17:56,220
you're. Yeah. Your dad kind of, like, disowned his

311
00:17:56,220 --> 00:18:00,100
dragon, so he's not East Targaryen, but only by

312
00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:00,460
name.

313
00:18:01,420 --> 00:18:04,620
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad you brought that up.

314
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,160
>> Sarah : It. And it also goes into a different

315
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:13,130
conversation, but, I. I really enjoyed that, too,

316
00:18:13,690 --> 00:18:19,210
because Targaryen. And this is why, like, there.

317
00:18:19,530 --> 00:18:22,490
We. We had Daenerys in all of Game of Thrones.

318
00:18:22,570 --> 00:18:27,050
Yes. But now, basically, Targaryens have their own

319
00:18:27,050 --> 00:18:30,290
prequel show, and then even a Knight of the Seven

320
00:18:30,290 --> 00:18:33,510
Kingdoms. We get into this, this family's business

321
00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:38,310
because this family is just so complex and multi

322
00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:42,430
layered and it's not one size fits all or one

323
00:18:42,430 --> 00:18:43,590
dragon fits all.

324
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:44,750
>> Will: Yeah.

325
00:18:45,010 --> 00:18:50,640
>> Sarah : something else, you said was, was that the

326
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,880
atmospherics. Right. Because I just want to point

327
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,490
out, before I forget this point, something that

328
00:18:57,490 --> 00:18:59,810
really stood out to me in this episode and I don't

329
00:18:59,810 --> 00:19:03,130
think I've ever commented on it in any other

330
00:19:03,130 --> 00:19:05,490
episode as much as we've covered House of the

331
00:19:05,490 --> 00:19:09,530
Dragon or Knight of Seven Kingdoms. The score. So

332
00:19:10,090 --> 00:19:13,450
take the opening sequence aside. The credits love

333
00:19:13,450 --> 00:19:18,410
it. but for some reason this scoring in this

334
00:19:18,410 --> 00:19:24,450
episode just was so on point to what was going on

335
00:19:24,530 --> 00:19:28,250
in terms of the psychosis. It stood out but it

336
00:19:28,250 --> 00:19:32,450
wasn't distracting. It was very complimentary and

337
00:19:32,770 --> 00:19:38,500
I think it just added to the, because it felt like

338
00:19:38,580 --> 00:19:43,420
there was danger, but there wasn't. Yeah. It was

339
00:19:43,420 --> 00:19:47,620
this weird thing and, and it goes into what you

340
00:19:47,620 --> 00:19:51,060
brought up earlier with the opening line of like

341
00:19:51,140 --> 00:19:54,900
ghosts in this book place. And not, not all of

342
00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:57,620
them are bad and not all of them are good. It's

343
00:19:57,620 --> 00:20:00,750
just a, lot and really it's just memories. There's

344
00:20:00,750 --> 00:20:03,990
very much a nostalgic, an uneasy nostalgia going

345
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:04,350
on.

346
00:20:05,390 --> 00:20:07,670
>> Will: Yeah. You know, I'm glad you brought up about the

347
00:20:07,670 --> 00:20:10,430
ghost and the images as Rhaenyra was walking

348
00:20:10,430 --> 00:20:12,550
through. I mean she was, you know, having those

349
00:20:12,550 --> 00:20:15,350
like flashbacks, you know, having those double

350
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:19,950
takes with, you know, seeing Jason and, and some,

351
00:20:19,950 --> 00:20:22,430
you know, just the, the ghost. And then you know,

352
00:20:22,430 --> 00:20:25,300
I was, you reference m. The line from, you know,

353
00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:29,380
from Henry iv and, and like her not being able to

354
00:20:29,380 --> 00:20:32,460
sleep, you know, you know they were, they were in

355
00:20:32,460 --> 00:20:34,180
the throne. You know, she was like, you know, in

356
00:20:34,180 --> 00:20:37,740
the throne room and, and that, that bed and just,

357
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:41,270
just, just, just the insomnia and all this, the

358
00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:43,670
weight of everything where she just, just could,

359
00:20:43,670 --> 00:20:45,550
you just could not just really couldn't turn it

360
00:20:45,550 --> 00:20:45,830
off.

361
00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:52,080
>> Sarah : yeah. And yeah, well, I, I, I also love that use

362
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,430
of the bed. It keeps going back to that just, just

363
00:20:56,430 --> 00:21:00,510
the un. Inability to sleep. Like it's very

364
00:21:00,510 --> 00:21:03,590
interesting because we end on last week's episode

365
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:06,470
with her finally sitting in the throne that her

366
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:10,430
dad sat in for all of her life. Right. Or all of

367
00:21:10,430 --> 00:21:11,630
his life, I should say.

368
00:21:11,630 --> 00:21:12,110
>> Will: Yeah.

369
00:21:12,270 --> 00:21:17,910
>> Sarah : But then she has a problem sleeping in the bed.

370
00:21:19,410 --> 00:21:24,410
>> Sarah : That he slept in. So it's just this interesting

371
00:21:24,410 --> 00:21:27,370
thing where she's still looking at that bed and

372
00:21:27,370 --> 00:21:30,490
was being like, I don't know if I can do this. I

373
00:21:30,490 --> 00:21:34,530
Don't know, like, like I thought it was a very

374
00:21:34,770 --> 00:21:38,390
good tool of, I don't know if I can wear this

375
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:41,510
because my father wore it. And just this inability

376
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:48,180
to really accept the role that. And by accepting

377
00:21:48,180 --> 00:21:52,140
it, she's also accepting he's really gone, my sons

378
00:21:52,140 --> 00:21:55,940
are really gone. And this is the start of like

379
00:21:55,940 --> 00:21:59,900
life without them. And so it's a. Because we

380
00:21:59,900 --> 00:22:04,360
didn't see her grieve Viserys that much. And I

381
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:08,000
feel like now that she is, we're starting to see

382
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,530
all of the grief come up.

383
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:15,310
I want to talk about Allison. because we were

384
00:22:15,310 --> 00:22:19,030
talking about the whole Damon. The difference of

385
00:22:19,030 --> 00:22:23,750
ruling perspectives between Damon and Rhaenyra and

386
00:22:23,910 --> 00:22:27,230
Allison. And I knew this was coming. I knew she

387
00:22:27,230 --> 00:22:31,970
would ask advice from Allison. and, and, and it's

388
00:22:31,970 --> 00:22:35,880
just a reminder to all of us who have watched this

389
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:41,240
show that Allison did a lot of ruling and she,

390
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,960
she, she did it to the best of her ability. And,

391
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,120
and she is very direct with her of saying, like,

392
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:55,080
you think that, that you can be the same person

393
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,160
who you were trying to claim, like the person you

394
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,730
were 48 hours ago is no longer going to be the

395
00:23:03,730 --> 00:23:06,490
same person. You're going to slowly start to lose

396
00:23:06,490 --> 00:23:11,490
yourself because you have to. There's trade offs.

397
00:23:11,490 --> 00:23:15,290
Like, this isn't black and white and you're not

398
00:23:15,290 --> 00:23:17,690
going to be able to give every, everyone

399
00:23:18,249 --> 00:23:20,850
everything they want. And you're going to have to

400
00:23:20,850 --> 00:23:23,210
make decisions and that's the whole thing. And

401
00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:25,370
you're gonna have to make a balance of the sales

402
00:23:25,610 --> 00:23:27,810
and occasionally, you're gonna have to kill

403
00:23:27,810 --> 00:23:35,070
people. I mean, FYI, you killed my father. Yeah,

404
00:23:35,230 --> 00:23:39,790
so. But I just. I. And then the line that really

405
00:23:39,790 --> 00:23:44,270
sticks out is the whole, your father lived in a

406
00:23:44,270 --> 00:23:47,350
world of his own construction. You and I have

407
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:48,950
never stepped foot there.

408
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:52,310
>> Will: Yep. Yeah, that line stood out to me as well.

409
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:55,350
>> Sarah : Yeah? Why did it stick out to you?

410
00:23:56,510 --> 00:23:58,770
>> Will: you know, I, I think, thinking back to those early

411
00:23:59,090 --> 00:24:02,320
seasons where, you know, where he had the, the

412
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,120
models of, of old Valeria and King's Landing, and

413
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,520
as far as just, you know, that was just the

414
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,360
physical manifestation of, of the world that he

415
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:18,320
constructed. But just thinking like, you know, he,

416
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,080
he had this fantasy like, you know, he told, he

417
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,630
told Rhaenyra the stories about, the Song of Ice

418
00:24:24,630 --> 00:24:27,590
and Fire and, and doing these things, you know,

419
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:32,470
preparing, you know, for the, you know, the idea

420
00:24:32,550 --> 00:24:35,430
that the realm was going to be able to accept a,

421
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:39,560
A, you know, woman to be the first queen, and

422
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,560
ruler of, of this and, and, and so many other, you

423
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,920
know, just. Just. And even, like, I think back,

424
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,560
you know, those early seasons, like, whenever.

425
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,760
Whenever. Whenever the. The. The divisions were

426
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,960
starting to build within the family, and he was,

427
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,750
you know, you know, and. And the I4 and I. You

428
00:24:58,750 --> 00:25:01,110
know, the injuries happened to a. Then, you know,

429
00:25:01,110 --> 00:25:03,780
all. You know, I think about the. The. The, Late

430
00:25:03,780 --> 00:25:05,420
in the first season where they had that family

431
00:25:05,420 --> 00:25:06,060
banquet.

432
00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:07,180
>> Sarah : Yes.

433
00:25:07,340 --> 00:25:07,700
>> Will: And.

434
00:25:07,700 --> 00:25:08,140
>> Sarah : Yes.

435
00:25:08,140 --> 00:25:10,700
>> Will: And it was. Yeah. And it was just like he was, you

436
00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:12,460
know, they were all just trying to uphold this,

437
00:25:12,460 --> 00:25:14,710
like, fantasy world that, everything is all right

438
00:25:14,710 --> 00:25:17,230
and good in the Targaryen household when we all.

439
00:25:17,630 --> 00:25:21,720
Everyone who all could see that everything was not

440
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,370
well. And so, that's where I. You know, that's

441
00:25:24,370 --> 00:25:26,770
where I was thinking of whenever. Whenever Allison

442
00:25:26,850 --> 00:25:27,570
mentioned that.

443
00:25:28,290 --> 00:25:30,770
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, you're. You're spot on with that

444
00:25:30,770 --> 00:25:36,650
banquet scene from season one. because I don't. I

445
00:25:36,650 --> 00:25:40,490
don't know if it was a fantasy so much as it was

446
00:25:40,490 --> 00:25:43,610
the fact that. And we all knew. You all saw it

447
00:25:43,690 --> 00:25:46,770
throughout played out through season one. As long

448
00:25:46,770 --> 00:25:51,840
as he was there and King, everyone had to get

449
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,880
along. Like, the. The reality. Like, that was the

450
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,000
world of his construction. Like, he is there. That

451
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,320
is his daughter. This is his wife. Those are her

452
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,800
sons. The. These are. Are her sons, whether

453
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:13,120
they're. They're black or not. So we all accept

454
00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:17,490
that. I have all of my family together, and we all

455
00:26:17,490 --> 00:26:21,410
get along, and. And everything is good. Because

456
00:26:21,490 --> 00:26:23,940
as, long as he was there, he was like the glue.

457
00:26:24,340 --> 00:26:29,220
And the moment he's gone, the reality sets in of

458
00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:32,420
that situation of this family dynamic where

459
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:36,460
suddenly there's multiple people who can claim the

460
00:26:36,460 --> 00:26:40,740
throne. And that's just. I, just does not do

461
00:26:40,740 --> 00:26:44,800
anybody any favors in this family, because. Yeah.

462
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,610
but. But I love that you brought up the models. I

463
00:26:47,610 --> 00:26:50,140
forgot about that. but. But that is.

464
00:26:50,300 --> 00:26:57,390
That is on point. Ah. I think this. This is also

465
00:26:57,470 --> 00:27:02,350
why we're. We're only on episode three. But. But

466
00:27:02,430 --> 00:27:05,070
we're feeling good about this season, right? And I

467
00:27:05,070 --> 00:27:06,750
think we're feeling good about this season,

468
00:27:06,910 --> 00:27:10,160
especially in comparison to season two, because

469
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,200
this episode in particular reminds you of a lot of

470
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,920
nostalgia from season one, and it's because these

471
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,520
characters are together. Okay. The family drama

472
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,599
can only really ensue when you're having Allison

473
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:30,400
and Rhaenyra be in the same room together. Like,

474
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,160
one of my favorite lines of this episode is

475
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,560
Alicent saying, oh, so we're just going to name

476
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,560
off everything that men did, and you're going to

477
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,340
blame me for that? Like. Like, you're gonna blame

478
00:27:42,340 --> 00:27:43,580
me for what men did?

479
00:27:44,510 --> 00:27:46,670
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was another one that

480
00:27:46,670 --> 00:27:47,950
stood out for me as well. Yeah.

481
00:27:48,270 --> 00:27:49,150
>> Sarah : Right, right.

482
00:27:49,230 --> 00:27:51,270
>> Will: Like I thought of you and like how you've like

483
00:27:51,270 --> 00:27:55,150
pointed out like, you know, how the role of gender

484
00:27:55,150 --> 00:27:58,230
plays in this and you know, these women are really

485
00:27:58,230 --> 00:28:03,190
trying to, you know. Yeah.

486
00:28:03,190 --> 00:28:05,710
>> Sarah : Especially with Allison because everyone wants

487
00:28:06,110 --> 00:28:09,490
post her, paint her as like the evil stepmother.

488
00:28:10,050 --> 00:28:14,610
But she is just a, A woman who has tried to

489
00:28:14,610 --> 00:28:18,370
survive and she's been put into these situations,

490
00:28:18,850 --> 00:28:21,570
whether it be her husband, whether it be her

491
00:28:21,570 --> 00:28:26,200
father and now her uncle of course, but. Or yeah,

492
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,800
their uncle. Or is it cousin?

493
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:29,870
>> Will: He, Orman's her cousin.

494
00:28:29,950 --> 00:28:35,000
>> Sarah : Orman's her cousin. So. So it. She. She is

495
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:42,040
constantly. But I like that. I can appreciate how

496
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:51,240
part of Rhaenyra retaining humanity is now very

497
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,000
much sewn into her treatment of Helena and

498
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:55,800
Alicent.

499
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,000
>> Will: Yeah.

500
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:02,160
>> Sarah : Because. Because Allison wants her father as ashes

501
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,680
to go to Old Town. Okay. Allison wants like them

502
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,680
to leave. Oh, no, no, no. I need you to stay here.

503
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,840
You know, you can't, you can't. So I'm gonna

504
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,960
basically lock you in your room right now and

505
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,760
throw the way of the key and you're gonna be

506
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,840
treated nice. I, I think she did that for a few

507
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,760
different reasons because I think in a weird way,

508
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,960
Allison is honestly the only one she can trust.

509
00:29:28,730 --> 00:29:32,650
the only one that she can get honest truth from at

510
00:29:32,650 --> 00:29:36,490
the same time and relate to like their, their bond

511
00:29:36,650 --> 00:29:43,129
is so strong and, and it's also. But at the same

512
00:29:43,130 --> 00:29:47,330
time, just a few days ago, like Allison knows you

513
00:29:47,330 --> 00:29:50,330
killed my son and now you're locking me in my

514
00:29:50,330 --> 00:29:54,510
room, basically telling me until my my. My son

515
00:29:54,510 --> 00:29:59,330
dies, I can't leave with my daughter. And as long

516
00:29:59,330 --> 00:30:01,770
as we're in here, our threats, our lives will

517
00:30:01,770 --> 00:30:06,810
always be at risk. So it, it's, it's. It's very

518
00:30:07,050 --> 00:30:12,110
interesting how they've they've Again, two people

519
00:30:12,110 --> 00:30:13,750
who we knew were friends.

520
00:30:14,750 --> 00:30:18,040
>> Sarah : That friendship gets rifted apart. The rip just

521
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,960
goes deeper and deeper, yet at the same time it

522
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,520
just all goes back to. And yet you still know me

523
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:25,840
best.

524
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,360
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that. I think that

525
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,120
relationship, you know, we've seen it. I know they

526
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,400
tried to do that pull that even in season two.

527
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,960
Just showing that bond between the two of them,

528
00:30:41,910 --> 00:30:44,060
you know, early on where I think they were both

529
00:30:44,010 --> 00:30:47,750
you know, praying there maybe the second or third

530
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:50,790
episode of season two. And then of course the, you

531
00:30:50,790 --> 00:30:52,390
know, the arrangement that they came up with at

532
00:30:52,390 --> 00:30:54,930
the end that, you know, basically, how. Basically

533
00:30:54,930 --> 00:30:57,010
how Rhaenyra was able to get back into the Red

534
00:30:57,010 --> 00:30:58,390
Keep, and. And Alison,

535
00:31:01,270 --> 00:31:04,710
>> Sarah : how long will it take before Allison admits to

536
00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:07,750
Rhaenyra that Aemond kissed her before leaving?

537
00:31:11,350 --> 00:31:14,070
How many episodes until that gets disclosed?

538
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:18,130
>> Will: Oh, gosh. You know, given. Given that there was no

539
00:31:18,130 --> 00:31:21,970
gratuitous stuff this episode. Maybe next week.

540
00:31:22,370 --> 00:31:22,850
>> Sarah : Yeah.

541
00:31:23,570 --> 00:31:26,810
>> Will: Yeah, that was. Yeah, that was one of the things,

542
00:31:26,810 --> 00:31:29,370
too. I mean, yeah, I think one of the strengths of

543
00:31:29,370 --> 00:31:31,570
this episode, you know, as you mentioned, is

544
00:31:31,570 --> 00:31:34,130
pulling, you know, having everyone back together

545
00:31:34,290 --> 00:31:37,450
helps definitely drive the drama along, but also

546
00:31:37,450 --> 00:31:39,250
just the politics of it all. And.

547
00:31:39,250 --> 00:31:42,130
And it was just so, you know, I know last week I

548
00:31:42,130 --> 00:31:45,580
was just, you know, singing the praises of Hess,

549
00:31:45,790 --> 00:31:48,310
and Kilner as far as just a dynamic duo for. For

550
00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:51,630
writing the, you know, very big episodes when big

551
00:31:51,630 --> 00:31:54,950
things happen. But in a lot of ways, this. This to

552
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:58,150
me was also just equally as a. A big episode. And

553
00:31:58,150 --> 00:32:03,120
I'm, even more. More so than, you know, where you

554
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,720
have big battles and stuff because of just all the

555
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,360
things that we've talked about here in the last

556
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,090
half, you know, 25 minutes or so. you, know. But

557
00:32:11,090 --> 00:32:14,170
just not only the, you know, the things that. That

558
00:32:14,170 --> 00:32:16,250
Rhaenyra is going through as she's trying to build

559
00:32:16,250 --> 00:32:19,170
her. Her literally first day, first day, full day

560
00:32:19,170 --> 00:32:22,540
on the job, but also just, the callbacks, you

561
00:32:22,540 --> 00:32:24,980
know, from the highlights that we've seen, both

562
00:32:25,220 --> 00:32:28,010
really, from the first season, but also, you know,

563
00:32:28,010 --> 00:32:29,690
some of the things in the second season and just

564
00:32:29,690 --> 00:32:32,090
the sort of this. This true tapestry, not to like,

565
00:32:32,090 --> 00:32:34,930
borrow the. That, you know, the imaging from the

566
00:32:34,930 --> 00:32:38,290
beginning of each episode, but it really is just

567
00:32:38,770 --> 00:32:43,130
on full display. Why, when. When this series is,

568
00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:45,130
like, firing off on all cylinders, you get

569
00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:47,250
episodes like. Like. Like episode three.

570
00:32:49,010 --> 00:32:53,580
>> Sarah : Yeah, I. I think that, Because this episode, in my

571
00:32:53,580 --> 00:32:57,420
opinion, it's harder from a technical perspective,

572
00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:00,070
considering you have to keep the viewer

573
00:33:00,070 --> 00:33:04,750
entertained and you have this huge world, yet

574
00:33:04,750 --> 00:33:07,990
we're following one character, and we have to be

575
00:33:07,990 --> 00:33:12,830
entertained the entire time. And we also. The

576
00:33:12,830 --> 00:33:18,550
redundancy and the not. Not. Not suddenly looking

577
00:33:18,550 --> 00:33:21,600
at the phone too much. but I was fully. I was

578
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,770
fully entertained because something felt fast

579
00:33:24,770 --> 00:33:27,970
about it. Something. I. I think the pacing was on

580
00:33:27,970 --> 00:33:28,290
point.

581
00:33:29,170 --> 00:33:29,650
>> Will: Yep.

582
00:33:29,650 --> 00:33:32,490
>> Sarah : And then also to stick to Team Green a little bit

583
00:33:32,490 --> 00:33:38,690
and talk about, another thing coming at, At

584
00:33:38,690 --> 00:33:42,450
Raniera, which. Which kind of became a punchline

585
00:33:42,450 --> 00:33:44,690
throughout this episode as well. You got to go

586
00:33:44,690 --> 00:33:49,780
kill that boy. you still got to kill Darren. but

587
00:33:49,940 --> 00:33:52,770
Darren Targaryen of it all as the.

588
00:33:53,570 --> 00:34:00,250
Really, the opening occurs with with Damon, and

589
00:34:00,570 --> 00:34:04,600
Ormond, Hightower, who we've seen in previous

590
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,520
episodes. Just waiting, Just waiting. Well, the

591
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,920
battle's here and basically on Team Damon is three

592
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,200
dragons. So do with that what you will. And Damon

593
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,930
negotiates peace of some sort. And basically all

594
00:34:19,930 --> 00:34:23,980
he wants is just Ormond's ward, which is Darren

595
00:34:23,980 --> 00:34:27,620
Targaryen. And so Darren gets brought to the

596
00:34:27,620 --> 00:34:32,260
castle. At what point, if at all, did you think

597
00:34:32,260 --> 00:34:34,660
that Darren was not Darren?

598
00:34:35,940 --> 00:34:38,100
>> Will: So this, you know, we've heard so much about

599
00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:40,910
Darren. We've never, we've never seen him, as far

600
00:34:40,990 --> 00:34:44,160
to date now, at least within the series now I

601
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,640
think I've seen promotional stills, but that's it.

602
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,120
but even at that, I, I, you know, I was. I knew

603
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:57,360
something was off despite the age, I think. and

604
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:02,130
then, shame on me. But you know, just, you know,

605
00:35:02,450 --> 00:35:04,570
just going through the social media memes, I

606
00:35:04,570 --> 00:35:06,850
didn't pick. I did not. I did not clock it real

607
00:35:06,850 --> 00:35:09,170
time when I was watching episode. But you know,

608
00:35:09,170 --> 00:35:11,050
but you know, the Internet never. The Internet

609
00:35:11,050 --> 00:35:14,450
always wins. And people were like. Viewers were

610
00:35:14,450 --> 00:35:18,260
like noting how Tessie and the dragon that Darren,

611
00:35:19,110 --> 00:35:23,680
is, was. Was bonded to was in the back. Back there

612
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,680
background there whenever Orman and Damon were

613
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,250
having all the Their. Their. Their

614
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:28,660
>> Sarah : Yeah.

615
00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:31,780
>> Will: Discussions and, and. And basically, you know,

616
00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:34,010
there was, you know, there was. There were. There

617
00:35:34,010 --> 00:35:35,490
was some people pointed out there was something

618
00:35:35,490 --> 00:35:39,920
off there then. But I was just so focused on you

619
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,530
know, the conversation between Damon and and

620
00:35:43,530 --> 00:35:45,970
Ormond that I really didn't even know. I didn't

621
00:35:45,970 --> 00:35:48,729
like the time. I just didn't notice the dragons

622
00:35:48,729 --> 00:35:51,890
in, in the background and just kind of. I, I

623
00:35:51,890 --> 00:35:54,380
actually got distracted by Foreman's assistant. I

624
00:35:54,380 --> 00:36:00,720
was like that guy was he. And, and that. That was

625
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:03,120
standing beside him there so that I got distracted

626
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,440
by that. So I missed it. But people were pointing

627
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,010
that out. But but yeah, he was. There was

628
00:36:07,010 --> 00:36:09,010
something off with that. Off with them the whole

629
00:36:09,010 --> 00:36:09,170
time.

630
00:36:09,170 --> 00:36:11,380
And then of course getting to the, you know, I do

631
00:36:11,380 --> 00:36:13,420
like how you, how you framed it as a punch line

632
00:36:13,420 --> 00:36:15,780
throughout the episode. Well, you got to kill this

633
00:36:15,780 --> 00:36:17,820
kid. Even Damon, whenever, after they had that

634
00:36:17,820 --> 00:36:19,660
conversation on the balcony was like, don't

635
00:36:19,660 --> 00:36:21,020
forget, you gotta kill Darren.

636
00:36:22,140 --> 00:36:28,220
>> Sarah : Yeah, it's. I, I think that it's a brilliant way

637
00:36:28,780 --> 00:36:35,060
to. For, for Rhaenyra to try to get the crumbles

638
00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:38,180
of justice that she talks about at what point in

639
00:36:38,180 --> 00:36:42,700
this episode and she says it with such venom and

640
00:36:43,500 --> 00:36:47,740
so straight that. That you really feel that rage

641
00:36:47,740 --> 00:36:51,340
bubbling. Yet every time she looked at this kid,

642
00:36:52,070 --> 00:36:55,950
you could see the maternal side, the m. Sisterly

643
00:36:55,950 --> 00:37:00,630
side of just being like, how do I kill this?

644
00:37:00,790 --> 00:37:03,550
Which. Yeah, because especially when she

645
00:37:03,550 --> 00:37:08,630
rationalizes that he. He's not Aegon. He's not the

646
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:12,630
usurper. He's not Aemond who killed my. One of my

647
00:37:12,630 --> 00:37:17,350
sons. So. So why. How could I do that? And yet,

648
00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:22,030
simultaneously, you have. You have Damon, who's

649
00:37:22,030 --> 00:37:24,950
just like. It doesn't matter. He's still m. A

650
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:29,990
claimant of the throne. He's not of your line. So

651
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:34,590
as much as you want to do all of this tallies, he.

652
00:37:34,590 --> 00:37:37,110
He's just somebody else you have to get rid of.

653
00:37:37,590 --> 00:37:41,350
Arguably, when Damon realizes Helena and Allison

654
00:37:41,430 --> 00:37:44,070
are locked up, he'll probably be like, you gotta

655
00:37:44,070 --> 00:37:48,390
kill Elena. So she. That's always gonna be there

656
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:52,460
within this family, where that bloodline kind of

657
00:37:52,860 --> 00:37:57,540
splits and. And it's. It's very. Because it's a.

658
00:37:57,540 --> 00:37:58,380
Very much a threat.

659
00:37:59,180 --> 00:37:59,500
>> Will: Yep.

660
00:37:59,990 --> 00:38:04,790
>> Sarah : Yeah. So I. And. And I think this is another

661
00:38:04,870 --> 00:38:09,430
reason. I like how there's this whole ploy with

662
00:38:09,430 --> 00:38:13,830
Ormond. Right. And it takes Allison. And again,

663
00:38:13,830 --> 00:38:16,910
this is. This is Rhaenyra being still kind to

664
00:38:16,910 --> 00:38:19,780
Allison, of granting her wish to see her son

665
00:38:20,660 --> 00:38:24,420
unknowingly. That allows her to get to the truth

666
00:38:24,420 --> 00:38:26,500
of what's really going on with this kid, because

667
00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:32,340
it's not the kid. Now, I. About an hour or two

668
00:38:32,340 --> 00:38:34,460
after watching the episode last night, I did think

669
00:38:34,460 --> 00:38:38,740
to myself, because I think it's in episode two,

670
00:38:39,380 --> 00:38:43,700
when. When we're seeing Allison, very desperate,

671
00:38:44,140 --> 00:38:46,540
run around the castle trying to get everything in

672
00:38:46,540 --> 00:38:51,000
order for Rhaenyra's ascension, homecoming.

673
00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:52,120
>> Will: And.

674
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,000
>> Sarah : And, ah, she does write to Ormond.

675
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:56,120
>> Will: She does.

676
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,040
>> Sarah : You think? And he doesn't really share what's

677
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,200
written with anybody else. He reads it, and it's

678
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,240
kind of like. So do you think whatever she put in

679
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:08,480
there. Because I. I honestly haven't gotten back

680
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,860
or anything. I'm sure other people have tipped him

681
00:39:11,860 --> 00:39:15,780
off because he had to have planned that way before

682
00:39:16,580 --> 00:39:21,020
Damon arrived to bleach that kid's hair to make

683
00:39:21,020 --> 00:39:24,060
sure. It was like, so many things had to go. The

684
00:39:24,060 --> 00:39:27,180
timing had to be there for them to put in the

685
00:39:27,180 --> 00:39:30,260
works. Like you. You don't give up my son.

686
00:39:31,540 --> 00:39:33,660
>> Will: Yeah, I think. Yeah, I think there. Well, I mean,

687
00:39:33,660 --> 00:39:37,100
I know she basically, like, one thing we do know,

688
00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:41,560
and, we talked about this was in that letter, Gave

689
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,120
him directions as far as, you know, stand fast as

690
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,250
far as where they are. And I think, into your. I

691
00:39:47,250 --> 00:39:49,370
think you're right. There were some things that

692
00:39:49,370 --> 00:39:51,850
were not said on screen. This were, like thinking

693
00:39:51,850 --> 00:39:54,039
back to Damon, you know, whenever he got the, the

694
00:39:54,039 --> 00:39:56,160
scroll in the earlier seasons, you know, but, you

695
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,200
know, another one of those, you know, memeable

696
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,240
moments from this show, you know, we got that,

697
00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:03,920
too. But, you know, I think Ormond also had a

698
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,470
very, like, you know, facial expression, like, oh,

699
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:09,750
okay, I understand. And I think. I think.

700
00:40:09,830 --> 00:40:11,630
Yeah, I think this was part of it, because that

701
00:40:11,630 --> 00:40:15,150
was part of the reason, too, why they sent, Darren

702
00:40:15,150 --> 00:40:17,630
to Old Town to be with or men to begin with, to

703
00:40:17,630 --> 00:40:20,910
get him out of all this craziness, at King's

704
00:40:20,910 --> 00:40:21,430
Landing.

705
00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:26,430
>> Sarah : Yeah, it reminds me of last week when she was

706
00:40:26,430 --> 00:40:30,620
talking to Helena about, I can save you. Like,

707
00:40:31,100 --> 00:40:34,340
screw your brothers, your older brothers. I can. I

708
00:40:34,340 --> 00:40:37,340
can save you from all of this. Like, you're still

709
00:40:37,340 --> 00:40:41,540
pure. She. She still has a desperation to save her

710
00:40:41,540 --> 00:40:44,220
children from themselves and from this family,

711
00:40:45,090 --> 00:40:48,610
from half of their family. But while you were

712
00:40:48,610 --> 00:40:51,330
talking, I was also thinking, I can very much also

713
00:40:51,410 --> 00:40:54,490
see this play out to where it gets to a point in

714
00:40:54,490 --> 00:40:58,140
the season. Rhaenyra starts to think that Allison

715
00:40:58,220 --> 00:41:00,780
had something to do with it. But at the end of the

716
00:41:00,780 --> 00:41:04,780
day, it won't surprise me in the least if it comes

717
00:41:04,780 --> 00:41:08,580
out that no. Ormond immediately started this,

718
00:41:08,580 --> 00:41:12,220
because it's been five years that Darren was sent

719
00:41:12,220 --> 00:41:15,380
to time. He. He's had this the whole time because

720
00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:19,620
he knows what the Targaryens are capable of, and

721
00:41:19,620 --> 00:41:24,310
he knows, oh, this is a quote unquote spare. So I

722
00:41:24,310 --> 00:41:28,790
need to protect him, because he's also. He's more.

723
00:41:29,110 --> 00:41:33,150
Having lived in Oldtown for five years and been

724
00:41:33,150 --> 00:41:36,830
away from the Targaryen side of his family, he's

725
00:41:36,830 --> 00:41:41,390
probably more Hightower than he is. So. So I think

726
00:41:41,390 --> 00:41:44,670
that it. I could very much see it turn out to be

727
00:41:44,670 --> 00:41:48,750
Ormond. Like, it is his plan the whole time, his

728
00:41:48,750 --> 00:41:51,110
play. And I like that line. What game does he

729
00:41:51,110 --> 00:41:54,270
play? Because he. He has. Because we. We find out

730
00:41:54,270 --> 00:41:57,150
that he's. He's gone. Even. He's starting to make

731
00:41:57,150 --> 00:42:00,110
a ruckus with the dragons and. And all of that.

732
00:42:00,270 --> 00:42:06,170
And, you know, there was some imagery there. And

733
00:42:06,170 --> 00:42:09,370
we will get into Team Sea Steak. but there was

734
00:42:09,370 --> 00:42:13,010
some imagery in those final moments of her in the

735
00:42:13,010 --> 00:42:16,980
courtyard with the burning of the Hightower, flags

736
00:42:16,980 --> 00:42:20,620
and everything. It reminded me of season one at.

737
00:42:21,820 --> 00:42:25,480
I, think it was Aegon's name day, and there was

738
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,840
hunting, and towards the end of the episode,

739
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,240
there's a scene with Viserys and I think Alicent.

740
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:37,080
And it's him telling her about, like the story,

741
00:42:38,130 --> 00:42:40,930
or, or it's something, but there's a lot of fire.

742
00:42:40,930 --> 00:42:44,220
And so there's a lot of images too that again,

743
00:42:44,380 --> 00:42:48,820
just uneasy. Nostalgia is how I would describe

744
00:42:48,820 --> 00:42:51,660
this episode for both Rhaenyra and the viewers

745
00:42:51,740 --> 00:42:52,460
themselves.

746
00:42:53,340 --> 00:42:53,690
>> Will: Yeah.

747
00:42:53,690 --> 00:42:55,770
>> Sarah : yeah, but. Okay.

748
00:42:55,770 --> 00:42:56,210
>> Will: Yeah.

749
00:42:57,010 --> 00:42:58,210
>> Sarah : Team Sea Steak.

750
00:42:58,449 --> 00:42:59,970
We gotta talk about bastards.

751
00:43:01,170 --> 00:43:01,730
>> Will: Yeah.

752
00:43:03,620 --> 00:43:08,630
>> Sarah : At any point, did you think that she would

753
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:16,350
actually accept sea snakes or Corliss's. His need

754
00:43:16,670 --> 00:43:21,070
for Adam and Alan to be named as his hair? Did you

755
00:43:21,070 --> 00:43:22,750
think she was going to go through with that?

756
00:43:24,350 --> 00:43:26,990
>> Will: No, not, not right now. I never. I didn't think

757
00:43:26,990 --> 00:43:29,470
so. I mean, I think just whenever. When it came up

758
00:43:29,470 --> 00:43:34,590
at the dinner and her reaction to it all, it was

759
00:43:34,590 --> 00:43:38,750
very clear to me that even, even, even in her

760
00:43:38,750 --> 00:43:44,190
heart she wanted to do it. Timing right now is

761
00:43:44,190 --> 00:43:49,270
just. Just really bad. It's like. Corliss, dude,

762
00:43:49,510 --> 00:43:52,590
I, you know, I appreciate all that you've done for

763
00:43:52,590 --> 00:43:55,630
me. You've lost. You lost your wife, you lost your

764
00:43:55,630 --> 00:43:58,960
castle. You lost a brother early on. because you

765
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,400
called my, you know, your brother called my kids

766
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:08,270
bastards. you know, But, but we, but we, but, but

767
00:44:08,270 --> 00:44:10,230
we've also done things for you. I mean, we did.

768
00:44:11,109 --> 00:44:16,110
You know, you, I, I, you, you gave, you know, I

769
00:44:16,110 --> 00:44:19,470
married your son so that we could, you know. You

770
00:44:19,470 --> 00:44:19,910
know, give.

771
00:44:20,150 --> 00:44:22,290
>> Sarah : My sons have bastards.

772
00:44:23,090 --> 00:44:26,170
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. So they would get some legitimacy, you

773
00:44:26,170 --> 00:44:28,930
know, even though. Yeah. And we, you know, and I,

774
00:44:28,930 --> 00:44:33,250
appreciate that. That you, you, you know, g. Made

775
00:44:33,250 --> 00:44:35,530
one of my sons your heirs.

776
00:44:36,330 --> 00:44:39,610
>> Sarah : but yeah, that's something that Corliss did for

777
00:44:39,610 --> 00:44:40,290
Rhaenyra.

778
00:44:40,290 --> 00:44:41,330
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

779
00:44:41,330 --> 00:44:43,850
>> Sarah : I don't, I don't think she did anything for him.

780
00:44:46,950 --> 00:44:50,510
>> Will: come to think of it. No, I mean, it's, he. Yeah. I

781
00:44:50,510 --> 00:44:53,990
mean, his. It was a. It was, you know, he. I think

782
00:44:53,990 --> 00:44:56,790
from. I, I, I get it from both perspectives

783
00:44:56,790 --> 00:44:59,230
because from his perspective, as I just, you know,

784
00:44:59,230 --> 00:45:03,990
just shared, he has. He has done all the things

785
00:45:04,790 --> 00:45:05,510
for her.

786
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:06,350
>> Sarah : Yeah.

787
00:45:06,350 --> 00:45:09,240
>> Will: And so he, he, you know, whenever he made the ask,

788
00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:11,160
he was just like. I'm sure he was like, what the.

789
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,160
Because I've done all this stuff for you and now

790
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,080
I'm just asking for a simple thing and you're not

791
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:16,490
doing it.

792
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,440
>> Sarah : So what do you understand about her perspective?

793
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,000
Because I honestly think out of everything that

794
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,200
occurs in this episode, in Rhaenyra's decision

795
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,080
making, this is where she up

796
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,560
>> Will: the most M. I think I understand where she's

797
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,610
coming from, Because. Well, I think she, you know,

798
00:45:35,610 --> 00:45:37,490
once you articulates it within the episode,

799
00:45:37,490 --> 00:45:39,690
whenever they're having the conversation there in

800
00:45:39,690 --> 00:45:43,470
the, you know, In the corridor where, Which.

801
00:45:43,870 --> 00:45:46,190
Which. Well, another thing too, just from, you

802
00:45:46,190 --> 00:45:48,590
know, talk about framing the fact that this. This

803
00:45:48,750 --> 00:45:52,230
thing happened out in the open. You know, they had

804
00:45:52,230 --> 00:45:55,620
the initial conversation in the, room, but this

805
00:45:55,620 --> 00:45:58,980
one was. Was out in the open where all could hear

806
00:45:58,980 --> 00:46:03,820
every last word of it. And her point where she's

807
00:46:03,820 --> 00:46:07,060
like, look, you know, there's been whispers.

808
00:46:07,060 --> 00:46:10,620
We've. This has been the open secret for. For. For

809
00:46:10,620 --> 00:46:13,220
years here in the realm about this. You know,

810
00:46:13,220 --> 00:46:17,300
these being the strong boys and. And. And.

811
00:46:17,780 --> 00:46:19,500
And, you know, and then thinking about, you know,

812
00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:22,620
we didn't touch too much on it with the. With the.

813
00:46:22,620 --> 00:46:25,540
Her, Her conversation with the high Scepter. But,

814
00:46:25,700 --> 00:46:29,220
you know, just having come from that conversation

815
00:46:29,220 --> 00:46:33,140
with him about, you know, I just, like. I just

816
00:46:33,140 --> 00:46:37,470
like, Anointed, or christened. I'm trying to

817
00:46:37,470 --> 00:46:41,050
remember, the right word for it. But I just like,

818
00:46:41,210 --> 00:46:44,490
you know, we just. We just swore. We just gave him

819
00:46:44,490 --> 00:46:47,770
the throne and now, you know, it's only, you know,

820
00:46:47,770 --> 00:46:50,740
some months later, you're asking me of, this. So,

821
00:46:50,740 --> 00:46:53,460
you know, her. Her grip on everything is just so

822
00:46:53,460 --> 00:46:57,300
tenuous at this point that I think where she

823
00:46:57,300 --> 00:47:00,800
messed up was. Like I said earlier, I think in her

824
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,040
heart she wanted to do it, but she just didn't

825
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:07,240
articulate to Corliss that now's not the time. Let

826
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:10,520
me do it. We'll get to it. You know, it's like,

827
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,000
you know, on the first day of administration, you

828
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,560
know, you can't do everything the first day. You

829
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:18,840
gotta spread things out.

830
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:22,770
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, but she should have done this. I. I

831
00:47:22,770 --> 00:47:26,580
just. The. You. I mean, you. You listed

832
00:47:26,580 --> 00:47:29,300
everything. She did, and that was. Didn't even

833
00:47:29,300 --> 00:47:32,380
need to be done because I knew everything that he

834
00:47:32,380 --> 00:47:35,660
has done for her and all of the sacrifices, like,

835
00:47:35,660 --> 00:47:39,540
there's a reason why we spend time at the beach in

836
00:47:39,540 --> 00:47:41,740
the previous episode. And he's looking at

837
00:47:41,740 --> 00:47:45,860
everything that's been lost, and he has lost

838
00:47:45,940 --> 00:47:49,620
arguably the most. Yeah, and he,

839
00:47:51,770 --> 00:47:56,710
>> Sarah : He tried. He tried to be, a part of the family.

840
00:47:56,790 --> 00:48:01,430
And he's. He's yet again, kind of cast it aside

841
00:48:01,750 --> 00:48:06,350
and. Yeah, I. I mean, there. I don't think

842
00:48:06,350 --> 00:48:09,830
politically it was a smart move to, as you put it,

843
00:48:09,830 --> 00:48:12,510
instantly deny, like, maybe say, yeah, we'll

844
00:48:12,510 --> 00:48:16,730
postpone it. Not right now, but. But I also. I

845
00:48:16,730 --> 00:48:19,770
think it happens in the open because I think it

846
00:48:19,770 --> 00:48:23,250
kind of undermines Rhaenyra, there's nobody around

847
00:48:23,570 --> 00:48:28,530
who's gonna care. Yeah, like what? Why not? What?

848
00:48:28,610 --> 00:48:32,450
What? Like nobody's batting an island eyelash that

849
00:48:32,450 --> 00:48:35,450
there are three new dragons with three riders that

850
00:48:35,450 --> 00:48:38,920
nobody's ever heard of. Like, Like I, Like that

851
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:44,420
perspective was not shown or clarified. So when

852
00:48:44,420 --> 00:48:47,860
she gave that answer, everyone was kind of like,

853
00:48:47,860 --> 00:48:51,440
yeah, that. That's, a low blow there. And. And

854
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,000
then you couldn't really be mad at Corliss when he

855
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:59,160
shouts out like, you. Because she. And she doesn't

856
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,800
say it. Like she knows. And he's like, no, no, you

857
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,640
need to actually say it out loud. Like, what makes

858
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:09,040
your sons better than mine? Because they're all

859
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:09,600
bastards.

860
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,240
>> Will: They're all bastards. And I love. Yeah, he just.

861
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,640
He does the salt, the spice on the bastards. What

862
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:16,080
he said.

863
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:19,920
>> Sarah : Yeah. And. And I think. I think what he. He's also

864
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:24,410
getting out there. is that. That also subtle

865
00:49:24,410 --> 00:49:27,650
nuance played throughout this episode? Very much

866
00:49:27,650 --> 00:49:30,530
like the bed. It's the constant. We need to bring

867
00:49:30,530 --> 00:49:32,750
Joffrey here. We need to bring Joffrey here.

868
00:49:33,140 --> 00:49:35,940
Joffrey is still a strong boy. He was the.

869
00:49:36,100 --> 00:49:36,700
>> Will: That's right.

870
00:49:36,700 --> 00:49:41,580
>> Sarah : He was the kid who we m. Who we saw birth in that

871
00:49:41,580 --> 00:49:48,070
episode Transition Period, in season one. So he.

872
00:49:49,350 --> 00:49:55,390
So you're denying Sea Snake Corliss love him to

873
00:49:55,390 --> 00:49:59,540
legitimize his heirs and so that his name, and I

874
00:49:59,540 --> 00:50:02,740
love how he put it, will not die with him. Yeah,

875
00:50:02,820 --> 00:50:04,620
that's, ah, all he wants right now.

876
00:50:04,620 --> 00:50:05,340
>> Will: That's all he wants.

877
00:50:05,340 --> 00:50:06,580
>> Sarah : He lost everything else.

878
00:50:07,380 --> 00:50:07,940
>> Will: Yep.

879
00:50:08,100 --> 00:50:13,100
>> Sarah : And you deny me, yet you're wanting to bring your

880
00:50:13,100 --> 00:50:19,500
bastard son to this realm. Like, make one plus one

881
00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:22,900
equal two. Rhaenyra, come on. Like. So I. I think

882
00:50:22,900 --> 00:50:26,020
that's why that was the one decision in this

883
00:50:26,020 --> 00:50:29,690
episode where I'm like, okay, Renner, kind of.

884
00:50:29,770 --> 00:50:32,250
That's kind of not the smart thing to do in this

885
00:50:32,250 --> 00:50:33,930
situation. So.

886
00:50:33,930 --> 00:50:34,490
>> Will: Yep.

887
00:50:34,730 --> 00:50:38,810
>> Sarah : but yeah, but yeah, great episode. Solid again.

888
00:50:50,650 --> 00:50:52,780
All right, well, on, that note, Will, why don't

889
00:50:52,780 --> 00:50:54,940
you tell our listeners where they can find you?

890
00:50:56,060 --> 00:50:59,460
>> Will: Yes, you can find me where ever you get your

891
00:50:59,460 --> 00:51:02,520
social media fixes. At, Will and Polk. That's W I

892
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:05,240
L L M M P O L K. You can find

893
00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:08,160
>> Sarah : me there too, at SJ Belmont. Sj B E L M O N T.

894
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,280
Please follow our crew on X, formerly known as

895
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,600
Twitter at Scene and Nerd on Blue Sky. Friend us

896
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,320
on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at

897
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,160
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898
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,920
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899
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,240
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900
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:27,680
Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever your

901
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:46,530
podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome. It.