BLOODY FOOTSTEPS: Rhaenyra Takes the Throne | House of the Dragon S3E2 Deep Dive

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Unknown Speaker (2:03): Greetings, nerds. This is CNN Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Billmont, and with me as always is our mister producer, Will Paul. How are you doing tonight, Will?

Will Paul (2:11): Doing very well. Happy Monday. Happy season finale. Oh, excuse me. Episode three episode season two three, episode two of House and the Dragon.

Will Paul (2:25): I think it's got me all discombobulated because it's like this episode this week is just I I literally was, like, jumping out of my chair last night. And, you know, we'll get into it more. But, yeah, I'm pretty as you can tell, I'm pretty pretty hyped. So hyped to talk about this that I can't even get my words out of my mouth.

Unknown Speaker (2:42): Yeah. I've it's been a while since I've heard you do one of those. I mean Yeah. If ever. But

Unknown Speaker (2:51): Yeah. Yeah. Well, pretty high like I yeah. Like I said, I'm pretty hyped to talk about it.

Unknown Speaker (2:56): Yeah. And and I get I get why you would why you would insert season finale in there because, I mean, this this episode is, season three episode two, Queen's Landing.

Unknown Speaker (3:12): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (3:12): King's Landing. Yeah. Queen's Landing. As Alicent risks everything to fulfill her end of the bargain, Rhaenyra must decide whether the Iron Throne is worth the cost. And this was written by Sarah Hess and directed by Claire Klinner.

Sarah Billmont (3:26): Did they direct the first or or did they write and direct the first episode?

Will Paul (3:33): I don't think Sarah I'm trying to remember if they did or not. I know Claire did not direct it, but, you know, but Claire's did like, she's directed some of the key, like, episodes in house of the dragon. She she did the one where the episode where Viserys, you know, had the epic walk to the throne.

Unknown Speaker (3:52): I was just gonna ask if that was one of them because that makes all the sense in the world given the the walk to the throne that is Yeah. Is shown in this episode. But but yeah.

Will Paul (4:07): I And also, yeah. And Sarah, and Sarah Hess also, wrote that episode and then also, the queen that, never was the episode last season where, the, Rook's Rest battle where we lost

Unknown Speaker (4:23): Yes. Steve Snake's wife.

Unknown Speaker (4:24): Yeah. So yeah. So so they've the the yeah. They've been the part they've been the pairing for some of the pivotal episodes of House of the Dragon.

Sarah Billmont (4:32): Yeah. So we we start off, with Jace's body in the water, and then it's returned to Dragonstone, and Rhaenyra learns of what happened to her firstborn. And just the struggle to even touch him.

Unknown Speaker (4:50): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (4:51): You know, just that to touch the body, and this is after a good five minutes of staring at it, talking to the body as if it was still alive and just the denial. The denial that I mean, you really do see her go through all the stages of grief in this one episode And and it's it's a lot. It's a lot more than her other son got, but Yeah. It's neither here nor there. And and and then it it definitely the anger, she suddenly turns on her own people and questions because she she already felt we already felt in the first episode the betrayal that occurred

Unknown Speaker (5:39): Mhmm.

Sarah Billmont (5:41): After Jace essentially locks her in her room and and and goes off into battle. And she now is she can't take that betrayal out on him anymore. And Right. Instead so and then she turns it onto her own people. And and, obviously, sir Laurent, man, Jace had to just take you down with him, didn't he?

Unknown Speaker (6:11): Just He did.

Unknown Speaker (6:12): Oh, man. Yeah. But at least he gets to choose how he dies. I mean, there is that, I guess. I don't know what the options are.

Will Paul (6:21): Yeah. You know? But even but, you know, what was so striking about that scene too was, like, whenever he offered himself up and and and Monero was just like, well, all of you in the room, all of you should be just dead. And and it but but but, you know, but then she was like, but what purpose would that serve?

Unknown Speaker (6:43): Yeah.

Will Paul (6:43): Even though, of course yeah. Yeah. Even though Slyrnette did go you know? Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (6:47): The irony though is if she had gone and if that had occurred to her, it would be the same issue. Like

Unknown Speaker (6:57): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (6:58): If she dies in battle, what good is that when she is their, quote unquote champion, their queen? And that, it's a great episode about not just grief, but also consequence, right? And they're they're and I think throughout this entire show, despite what you may think about season two even, is that the beauty of it is that they continue to allow these characters to make choices and whether they're the hero or the villain, everyone gets their due share of consequences.

Unknown Speaker (7:43): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (7:43): It's never it's never an easy route and and they may have all the dragons in the world but even the dragons, turn against them and and inherently they end up attacking each other. I mean, the II like the little dropping that is or the intelligence that is the little side note is just that they don't know who was on Sheepstealer. They know Sheepstealer was there, an untrained dragon was wreaking havoc and there was a rider and they don't know who that is. And I think that was very clever just because you're dealing with a central character and a big consequence that weighs heavy throughout this entire episode as it should. And she and yet they still put that in there just to remind you that, like, this story isn't over and the consequences will keep it coming.

Unknown Speaker (8:49): Yeah. Yeah. Because because the it wasn't Vegar on like, it wasn't Vegar who did this. It wasn't Eamon who did this. Was it was Reyna and

Unknown Speaker (9:02): It's not her own. Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (9:03): Yeah. Yeah. And and I just like that nugget there because it ties into a scene we see early on in the episode with Reyna pleading to Lady Jane, Erin, to let her, like, seek refuge. Lady Jane is smart enough to say, yeah, no.

Unknown Speaker (9:23): No. No. No. I

Unknown Speaker (9:25): I decline. I I wanted the dragon, but I don't need it at this cost. And and that's the thing. At the cost. Like Right.

Unknown Speaker (9:35): Right.

Sarah Billmont (9:36): You are then shown how people other than Targaryens weigh the balance of the scales.

Unknown Speaker (9:44): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (9:44): Right? And it's all about cost and it's the political maneuvering and and the desire to have something beyond your, your your station that comes with a cost and even Rhaenyra in this episode has learned, has paid a heavy cost to get to where she wanted to go and and by birthright and blood, she should have been there the whole time. But yeah.

Unknown Speaker (10:21): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like how you but, you know, one of the things you did mention earlier about choices and, you know, and and, you know, and it was Narena's choice to

Unknown Speaker (10:31): Yes.

Will Paul (10:31): You know, to to to do this, to to to to take this wild dragon. And then and and I and, you know, I guess it's really getting to that, you know, that, you know, it was a reminder of how young these these kids, these folks are as far as, you know, with with Reyna, with Chase, with, you know, these are, you know, essentially teenagers, and they're just acting on impulse. And and they want to do the right thing, but, you know, but nothing but and this goes back maybe to the original sin of Vesteros of just not, you know, one, not preparing Runeira for all of this, but also, you know, is carrying forward with with with some of the family now where some of you know, some of them are not being adequately prepared for things. I mean, Damon was off, you know, last you know, for for months off in Harrenhal doing things. And when we saw we saw some scenes earlier in the series where when they were back at King's Landing, you know, trying to, you know, train these young boys how to how to fight and those kind of things.

Will Paul (11:29): But, you know, but there's definitely a situation there where, you know, peep you know, a lot of these folks are in and over their heads.

Sarah Billmont (11:39): You know, I I agree with you halfly because I think the emphasis is not on the boys again. This is about women who wanna go beyond their station. And so that's why it's it's very interesting to me that, like, both of Reyna's, two boys who were born out of wedlock are are dead now. Those were the sacrifices. Damon's two girls from his first marriage are still around and are still and and they are also tied to the queen who never was and and all of that.

Sarah Billmont (12:20): So, again, we're dealing with females because you raise a point like Viserys, the original sin. Viserys' original sin, in my opinion, was his desire for a boy.

Unknown Speaker (12:33): His Oh that's true, yeah.

Sarah Billmont (12:35): That, like, desire drove him to become arguably the worst father ever and and kind of and then on his deathbed was basically like, it always has been you and you should be the queen and He already had it to was a whole mess, like, with that desire and that blind sidedness or short sightedness, should I say.

Unknown Speaker (13:02): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (13:04): Because and I think with Rhaenyra, she picked up what she could. She still, though, I think it's more of the unpreparedness of the totality. You start this path, it started decades ago, like, or at least a decade ago with an eye for, what was it? An eye for a, hand or something?

Will Paul (13:33): Yeah. So Yeah. It was like when yeah. Whenever the boy screw messing around, Aemon lost his eye. And then and then yeah.

Sarah Billmont (13:40): Yeah. And then and then next thing you know, Aemon's on Vagar, and and he he very much, like Reyna, like, thinks he understands how this like, this is a toy to him and he manages to get his cousin slash nephew, I don't know how to describe their relationship, killed.

Unknown Speaker (14:02): Yeah. Yeah. Cousin.

Sarah Billmont (14:04): And that just propels things forward. So it's but but I think it does it is very significant that on team black, you have yes. We lost the queen that never was, and for some reason, me and Will can't remember her exact name. That's so sad.

Unknown Speaker (14:24): I know you. I

Unknown Speaker (14:24): we bought it

Unknown Speaker (14:26): before. Yeah. Rennese. Yeah. Rennese.

Unknown Speaker (14:31): Yeah. I was, like, about to say some variation of Ray. Okay. Yeah. Rennese.

Unknown Speaker (14:37): Yeah. Too many Rennese. Ray Yeah. Rennese. Rennese Targaryen.

Unknown Speaker (14:41): Yes. That's why I had the family chart. I have the family chart there ready for this moment.

Sarah Billmont (14:46): But on at the same time, because to go back to and this isn't just gender buying, though, because then when I think about people being unprepared, we also have a lot of scenes in these last two episodes with, the new writers.

Unknown Speaker (15:09): Yep.

Unknown Speaker (15:09): I'm looking for the name. Hugh. Adam.

Unknown Speaker (15:14): Adam. Yep. And Ulf. Yep.

Sarah Billmont (15:17): And Ulf. Ulf. Yeah. Ulf. Who who are also but they're all bastards.

Sarah Billmont (15:24): Yeah. So, again, it's also with the women, it's about they're by blood in a lot of these positions, but assigned to a certain role because of their gender. They may be on blood, they have the power and a seat at the table but because of their gender, they're assigned a very specific role. Meanwhile, we're also dealing with a group of bastards who by blood should have been a part of this the whole time, yet because they're born out of wedlock, they either die or are given dragons and said, go and fight for us.

Unknown Speaker (16:10): Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Billmont (16:11): And also there's that very and I like this. I'm jumping around a bit, but I think, the conversation is kind of headed in this direction and very important to note that we didn't get a lot of sea snake core lists in this episode, he has honestly one of, if not the most profound line to me, and it's said very early on in the episode, but if this be victory, I hope to never see another.

Will Paul (16:47): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (16:48): And that line, originally, because it was said so early on in the episode, I didn't realize what it meant until we got to the end with Rhaenyra. Yeah. Because he was looking at the ashes of his kingdom, the ashes of everything he built, all of his money, all of the goods that he's collected, like who he thought, what he thought made him important. And he's surrounded by family at the same time. And yet that's still, there's a devastation there and there's a loss and it's very and then to have that line occur and for then Alan to say like, but your name is worth more than a whole mountain of gold.

Sarah Billmont (17:43): And and and that, again, just goes back to that whole thing I just said around the bastards angle of it all and these men who are not, who who are outcasted because of their birth circumstance and then and but and their name is a seat at the table. It's very they're doing a very good job the more I think about the different, things that are happening when we divide the characters out simply by gender.

Will Paul (18:18): Yeah. Yeah. They they they really are. And, you know, that that you know, the whole perfect victory of it all, you know, you're right. With with what Corliss said, and then what we see, you know, it it was a great cost, for you know, is this victory?

Will Paul (18:36): I mean, for you know, we you lose your son. You we've, you know, you you've lost possessions, and and so many other things. And, you know, yeah, I mean, that was such a such a profound moment there with with with Corlys. And and also, just gotta say, going back to to that scene with with with with the four of them on on the beach and just as a as as a blurt, I just love seeing, like, oh, yeah. It it that was just such a powerful, powerful moment, you know, especially in the in this in, you know, with these fantasy worlds and stuff and just to see these characters.

Will Paul (19:10): These, you know, these black African well, African American or black actors playing these characters. It was just a cool just a just an awesome moment. Just just wanted to do a little side there. But And but, yeah, just getting back into the into the universe itself.

Sarah Billmont (19:25): Can I just that that was that scene? Yeah. I just I just because I that moment, just from a cinematography perspective, is shot so beautifully. And what I another shot that I really like early on in the episode is the opening shot. And the opening shot, because we're in the camera's in the water and looking up at Jace's floating body.

Sarah Billmont (19:57): And it's an interesting shot because leading up to his death, he spent so much time in the air and like, he's not a he's not a sea creature. So it's just it was a very and there was there's also like a bleakness, very much like the bleakness felt at the sand and in the opening moments of this episode because Yeah. Because it's to go back to Sheepstealer and it all, you have all these dragons, and they're able to win you the victory, yet they also don't understand that that ship is the good guys. That ship's the bad guys. Like, Corlys lost a bunch of his men, if not his entire fleet.

Sarah Billmont (20:45): Like, that was a cost as well. And so there was a the bleakness and devastation, and it's just funny because then the the editor makes an excellent choice. We're gonna go from this bleakness to to a happy river dance party with Damon. Yes.

Unknown Speaker (21:05): Yep. It's

Unknown Speaker (21:07): just like, yeah. Yeah. You you can tell the distance.

Will Paul (21:11): Hey, y'all. It's Will. Real big favor to ask if you're liking what we're doing here. Please hit the like button, drop us a comment, and also subscribe. We're growing this channel, and we appreciate each and every one of you.

Will Paul (21:26): So with that, thank you so much. Let's get back to the discussion.

Sarah Billmont (21:29): And, and that brings Damon Yep. Into the front hall. He gets a hold of what happened at Harren Hall, and then he's off back to Dragonstorm Dragonstone. What what are your thoughts about this exchange between Damon and White Worm?

Will Paul (21:51): I that was a very interesting exchange because it was you know, we because they clearly, they they we know they have a history with these two. Mhmm. And so and and not only the the exchange so let me think about the exchange with between Damon and the White Worm first, and then also wanna talk about the exchange between Damon and Runeira.

Unknown Speaker (22:14): Yes.

Will Paul (22:15): But the the exchange between the two of them, you know, he, you know, he was off doing his thing in at Heron Hall, and she became, you know, a a confidant for for the queen. And it was you know, I think Damon was still you know, he's you know, they I think having him go back to Dragonstone was really it just reminded us for why we all fell in love with Damon Targaryen to begin with. It just every element from the smirk there at the, you know, at during the parties, the, you know, the singing the songs, the the charismatic nature whenever he was, you know, there with Rhaenyra and and, you know, and even, like, you know, speaking high Valyrian to her to to help her, you know, sharing with her the prophecy. I know going about you're going spending a yarn here, but I think it it it really cemented several things why people, I think, are frustrated with season two because we saw everything the full display of Damon Targaryen in this episode as far as the the highs, the lows, in between the the loyalty to Rhaenyra, the protection of the of the of his his role as as king consort, trying to figure out what the angle is with the white worm, but but also, you know, given their history, you know, is he worried that she's gonna, like, turn on turn on them?

Will Paul (23:53): So I I you know, but also I think they had the understanding there understanding between the two of them when they were sitting there and and understanding their roles as far as what they are there and who are their roles as far as their responsibilities to Rhaenyra in that in that moment. And I think he kinda reconciled that after he had that conversation with with the white worm. And then I love, you know, fast forward to this, the conversation that he has with Runeira about her and how Runeira's like, you know, I wasn't asking your permission or whatever. He's just like, no, no, no. Nope, nope, nope.

Will Paul (24:31): It's just the observation. And I think that was just the you know, that that confirmed his understanding of their relationship.

Sarah Billmont (24:39): Yeah. But it also just there there's still such an uneasiness between, Damon and Rhaenyra that I I I like that, a, Damon and Rhaenyra are back in in scenes together, but you can tell there's still that distance. And there is still a lot of conversations to be had, especially now because Yeah. Damon will, always, he's still someone who I'm like, Rhaenyra, I don't I don't fully trust him. I I mean, you don't you can't really trust anyone in this whole thing.

Sarah Billmont (25:25): Yep. And and I I think that that whole exchange with the with whitewarm is also to kind of remind you of, like, Damon is just as calculated. I mean, he's literally married and has had children with his niece. Okay? Someone who he courted and was trying to convince her father to let him do that for for years.

Sarah Billmont (25:54): So so True. Because that was his only way, one step closer to the throne. And so Mhmm. So it's but I like that that remark that white worm does to kind of put an end to the conversation of, like, not everything's about you because I think Damon of all people have to remember that. And that is why he is such a narcissist because he knows it.

Sarah Billmont (26:23): He's his second son, and now he's the the the king consort. Like, he he's always wanted to be the king, and he's never going to quite get there. So that's the it's never gonna be about him, ironically.

Unknown Speaker (26:43): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (26:44): But and and I it's it's funny because I think that the scenes in this episode, minus maybe the first scene with Damon, but I don't know which one was more clear to me of what they were doing, the scenes of Daemon or the scenes of Aemond. Because, man, if you had told me that Daemon was Aemond's father, I'd believe you. Yeah. There there is the way Eamon goes into Harrenhal, and it's it was so and I haven't watched any rewatched any of season two. I haven't I don't like that season.

Sarah Billmont (27:33): However, I when I was watching Eamon and Harrenhal at Harrenhal, I was like, oh my god. This reminds me so much of Damon. Yep. Like, going to Aaron Hall and how he acted and the of course, I mean, Damon obviously didn't start to slaughter people. You know?

Unknown Speaker (27:52): There's that.

Unknown Speaker (27:54): No. Yeah. They definitely. Yeah. This is where the the the the the hot headed you know, the where things split.

Sarah Billmont (28:02): But but I I but I I think it's very interesting that the last scene we see with Eamon is him having been poisoned, so to speak, and seeing Alice there, the witch, who has had a very similar relationship with Damon where there's some quote unquote nursing back to health. We know that she, because there's the send off between her and Damon, and she makes a plea for Harrenhal. And Yep. And Damon kind of is like, well, we'll get you something else. We can't get you that, but we'll get you something else.

Unknown Speaker (28:48): And Yep. And I'm like, yeah, that's gonna come back to bite him in the ass then. Yeah. We have Eamon who would probably offer her the world.

Unknown Speaker (28:58): Yep. Yep. And and and not only at all from the world, and you have Vagar.

Sarah Billmont (29:03): Yeah. Vagar is still a threat. No matter what, the number of Vagar is still just to remind you of how how nasty and powerful and huge that dragon is and that rider who is also very much driven and can't be trusted.

Will Paul (29:26): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But to your point about Damon and Amon's you know, how they treated the Strong's there, you know, and and, you Damon basically, you know, came there and just, you know, try you know, you know, pull one out for for sort of Strong, you know, basically see you know, basically, try you know, wanted to, know, create create the alliance and and and basically, we're here to, you know, to get the river men to, you know, to help us, you know, defend your queen. And then, of course, you know, Aemen just goes in there and just slashes everybody up and and, yeah, an e horse.

Will Paul (30:07): And but also but also it was very reflective of his his recklessness too as far as Eamonn. Because in all of the slashing and stuff, he he didn't realize that one of the, you know, that the, one of the the strong either the, squire or one of the sons was able to get some licks in too. And then, of course, like you said, it just sort of sets things up for, you know, his his deal that he's gonna make with Alice to, you know, to to, get the castle, for team green or team Amon.

Unknown Speaker (30:39): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's kind of well, it's just like what I was saying with Damon. Is it is it team Black, or is it team Damon?

Unknown Speaker (30:49): Like, I don't know.

Sarah Billmont (30:50): I don't I I think everyone's in it for each other and and more importantly for themselves. You know?

Unknown Speaker (30:56): Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

Sarah Billmont (30:59): I I also and and why I went on this tangent about the similarities between uncle and nephew is because there's a line in this episode where again, Renera deep in her guilt and her grief over Jace and her sons as well, both of her sons, He she she says he he betrayed me.

Unknown Speaker (31:27): Yep.

Sarah Billmont (31:28): And and then his reaction or no. He defied me. Sorry. He defied me. And and then the response is, but that's what all sons do.

Sarah Billmont (31:40): And this is it's such a small moment and yet it goes back into what we talked about last week. The the duality of roles. The mother versus the queen, the mother versus the queen. It's a very fine line and in this moment, because of the circumstances of Jayce's death, she is dealing with her grief from both perspectives. Like when it's useful for her, she will use the fact, but he defied me because I'm the queen.

Sarah Billmont (32:13): You shouldn't do that to me. Like, you have to follow my orders, and yet he's not he's not any subject. He's her son. Right. So the act of rebellion only comes natural because there's also, I will do this, but you will always protect me and love me no matter what.

Sarah Billmont (32:32): It's just, it's so well written and such a good point given the matriarchy that is webbed throughout this entire show. Yeah. So I just I just wanted to, put that out there as a and then we're off to to King's Landing or what was King's Landing. Yeah. It's now King's Landing.

Sarah Billmont (33:06): And Yeah. And that I mean, we kinda started the episode talking about this walk, and I and I know we haven't talked much about, Allison, team Allison

Unknown Speaker (33:17): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (33:18): But we will. Because this leads us to Damon and and Rhaenyra, who's just kind of gotten her pep talk and is like, no, no, we're gonna see this through. My son will not die in vain. I'm going to do this. She's still shaking.

Sarah Billmont (33:39): You can tell she's not, that she didn't get a sudden burst of energy. She just is like, no. I have to see this through. This cannot all be for naught. And I have my husband here, and he is thinking straight and more strategic.

Sarah Billmont (33:55): And so he manages to get get the troops in order and they're off. And then thankfully, Allison has also upheld her end of the bargain and they go through and just it there there are so many well, there are a few different things. The whole time

Unknown Speaker (34:18): Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (34:18): You are also very much like Roderick. Like, okay. Okay. So I know Allison did a, b, and c, but this isn't we're we're Alison may have talked to five people for all we know. Like, we don't know who else and and obviously not because because there there there were opposers.

Sarah Billmont (34:42): And then but I also liked how the further they got in, the more you're reminded that they're not foreigners, they're not strangers. They have just as many ties there as the high towers, if not more. And so they are met with enemies and friends, and that's what what leads us to the monumental, like, walk after. And and okay. Well, you I just I just need you to answer this question because was I the only one who was, like, really scratching my brain being like, who else is in the prison?

Sarah Billmont (35:30): I completely

Will Paul (35:31): Oh, no. No. We didn't we didn't so I know we didn't talk about it last week, but I after we after we after we finished this stuff, I was like, I I I do I did remember mister mister Hightower, you know, not you know, that that scene whenever they were doing those quick quick glimpses there at the end of season two. So whenever whenever they said, you know, we got a gift for you, I was like, oh, I know exactly where they're going with that. Oh, no.

Unknown Speaker (36:04): Yeah. I I did went for I was yeah. I I was remember I remembered Otto. I was like, yeah. That's yeah.

Unknown Speaker (36:10): Yeah. So when Damon was working walking through there, was like, okay. Let's just let's just let's just get it let's get it on. And and we're and I'm not a book reader, I didn't know. Yes.

Sarah Billmont (36:19): So No. I thought it was I thought it was so well done because I had them. But as soon as it was revealed, not only am I like, oh, Otto, of course, but I'm I'm reminded of, like, the string of events that led him to be detained as well.

Unknown Speaker (36:38): Mhmm. Yep.

Sarah Billmont (36:39): And and then I the the the the, the beheading, the whole I can't do this. Right? I don't think I can. I don't know if if this was a scene again, correct me if I'm wrong. There wasn't any was there a conversation about beheading in a knight of the seven kingdoms?

Will Paul (37:08): Oh, there might you know, I I I can't recall if there

Unknown Speaker (37:14): I don't

Unknown Speaker (37:14): I remember I I remember, like, the the king's guard, the queen's you know, the guard can't, like, you know, fight that's what you know, fight the turkeys and stuff. Yeah. I don't

Sarah Billmont (37:24): And I'm I don't think so. I think I'm remembering a conversation that happens very early on in season one of Game of Thrones.

Unknown Speaker (37:33): Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (37:34): Because they're they're I I feel like there are conversations in season one where arguably the most beheading happens. Sorry. Spoiler alert. But about True. About the way you're supposed to, like, cause the least amount of pain.

Unknown Speaker (37:53): So Mhmm. So so when she had the when she had the sword and was it's like, I don't think I can do this. I was like, oh my god, I don't like Otto, but at the same time, I don't want I don't want to see her and have to take like four swings at this stage. So when did the first one get stuck? I was like, ugh.

Sarah Billmont (38:17): And I'm so glad that was the second one. But Yeah. I the the hesitation and and honestly, like, I'm glad to hear that you were up in your, like, clapping and very joyous, but to me, I thought that that I I didn't get that feeling. I I wasn't happy. I wasn't sad or anything.

Sarah Billmont (38:45): I was more just like there was a dread, and I don't know why, but there was very much like, okay, well, now you have what you wanted, but man, I don't know. You got more children who can still like, it didn't feel and this is probably why they did it in episode two, And this is in a season finale is because she may have walked and is sitting on the throne, but she has paid a price and there are still so much. I mean, it's one thing to get the throne, and then it's another thing to hold on to it.

Will Paul (39:30): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. And and I wanna be clear.

Will Paul (39:33): I what got what my reaction and why I was so stoked was more just what it is. I'm playing it now. Just the the the framing of it all is just the cinematography of it. Her walk you know, after beheading Otto walking through his through the puddle of of blood. You know?

Unknown Speaker (39:58): Yeah. And the the reflection. It was it was it was that. That's where I was just like, goddamn. This is this show.

Will Paul (40:06): I mean, it was just just so many emotions and what you just talked about, you know, her taking the throne. And, you know, and and and Emma, they just and and conveyed so many emotions of what Rhaenyra was feeling in that moment. Like you said, all the sacrifice, all the losses, all the this finally happening and really sitting on the throne of swords as she as Ranero talked about earlier. It was just just that was where I was just out of my seat because I was like, just just all of that. And and just seeing Damon there just looking on and I mean, that that was really what I was like when I got so stoked and and when we started, just so excited because that scene has just been playing over and over for me all day, quite frankly, since I've watched the episode.

Will Paul (41:01): And in some respects yeah.

Sarah Billmont (41:03): So I just I just wanna chime in because about the bloody footsteps. Again, I think it's beautiful and and I I agree with a lot of what you said, like the be there's a beauty in this episode that is, I haven't seen in a while in a TV episode, just from a cinema cinematography perspective.

Unknown Speaker (41:27): Yep.

Sarah Billmont (41:27): And the beauty is also in this what we were talking about with at this on the beach, like there's a despair and there's a sadness and there's grief and there's pain. And, we also talked early on about the director of this episode also directed the iconic Viserys walk, and that to me, like, again, I haven't watched season one in years, but I still remember that walk. And I remember it sticking out so much and being so iconic because he was he he he had a mask of gold. He was dragging. He was in the most dire strait I have really ever seen a king.

Sarah Billmont (42:22): I mean Yep. But and yet he he did what he had to do, and he walked, and it was painful and all of that. And and you could tell, like, this would be his final walk. Like, this was the ending. This was a goodbye.

Sarah Billmont (42:40): And then so to see Rhaenyra's walk, the fact that it's the bloody footsteps, the fact that the sacrifices we keep mentioning are the sacrifices of not only her sons but nephews on both sides. She has literal blood on both sides.

Unknown Speaker (43:03): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (43:04): And blood of other people and all of that to get to this place and then the fact that like there was that a point in time Otto, her dad's best friend, extreme hand of the king, probably she viewed him for a period of time as a second father. Like, no so so it's just the the they continue to weave that complexity of family and blood and then they literally put it in as the bloody footsteps. It's just brilliant. Then you see her on the throne and her eyes are just still watery. Allison comes in with Helena and yeah, the the those two that that look and then they just end and you're just like, yeah, there is so much more to tell with these two women.

Sarah Billmont (44:16): I mean honestly, it could have been a little bit worse had had Otto not been in there, and they somehow got ahold of Helena because I I couldn't be able to watch Helena. But but at at the same time, I didn't feel that bad for Allison because I'm like, Allison, you didn't like your father either. Okay? So do don't do this. Don't don't make this a thing.

Sarah Billmont (44:43): Okay? Yeah. She didn't take out out one of your children. Okay? So yet, yet she she still very much wants Aegon.

Sarah Billmont (44:53): And and I'm like, no. No. You wanna get rid of Eamon. Aegon, he he's gonna drink himself to death.

Will Paul (45:02): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, in in a truck, he did, like, you know, help him and hit him Alerus, out there with the, with the the remnants of them, you know, get get live to fight another day and and try to get over to, you know, sir Christian and everyone. But but yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (45:19): Yeah. It was just like we those two, they are continuing to find ways to redirect them in this adventure. Wherever they are going, it's constantly like, now you're captured. Now now you're saved, but it's not as though the triarchy knew Aegon was in there or anything. It just still happened to have been that way, and and now they're off to robes' wet rest for some reason.

Unknown Speaker (45:51): Yeah. To go back to Allison, though

Unknown Speaker (45:56): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (45:58): Okay. So Allison, there's a there's a scene in this episode that I think is very purposeful, and it's the scene with her and sir Philip. Right? It's sir Philip. Correct?

Unknown Speaker (46:18): Yes.

Unknown Speaker (46:18): Oh, Damon's the the the the kings the, go the Gold Cloaks? Or or Jasper who attempted to assault?

Sarah Billmont (46:26): Sir Jasper. Thank you. For some reason, I was thinking Philip. No. It's sir it's sir Jasper.

Sarah Billmont (46:33): I that scene is, I think, very important because it is a reminder that Alicent, we all know she did make a decision. She said what she said, and she has she has helped. She has played a very pivotal role in terms of the sequence of events that have befallen the kingdom. However

Unknown Speaker (47:02): Yeah.

Sarah Billmont (47:04): I think the fact that they put this scene in there where Jasper finds out about this deal that she has made and this betrayal of to the king, And he, he initially starts to threaten her and then begins to attempt to rape her. And and why I think that is such a, important scene to have in this, because I think that my whole dynamic with this show has been that there are no necessarily true villains or heroes. Because Alison may be on the wrong team, but she's also been cursed with men constantly manipulating her and putting her into these situations for her to only have like one choice to make to like save herself and and it just reminded me of like she never like went after Viserys because he was king. No. Her dad forced her into that marriage.

Sarah Billmont (48:18): And then she we know that it wasn't a and that cost her her best friend, and that started their whole divide. And she she has constantly been used mainly for sex. So Yeah. I I just I I really think that was important because as I think with with Alistair, we can get it stuck in her head that she's constantly a pot, potster and is manipulating this. But she truly, at the end of the day, is just trying to do a very similar thing that that Rhaenyra is and protect her kids and make sure try to get them on a good path.

Sarah Billmont (49:07): And who's to say who's done a better job?

Will Paul (49:11): Yeah. True. True. Yeah. I I was I was kinda torn honestly about that scene, but now that you the way that you framed it now, I because I at first, I was like, is this overkill?

Will Paul (49:24): Or Mhmm. You know, you know, what's the purpose of this? But now that you framed it the way that you have and, you know, and now yeah. I see why they added that scene in there now.

Sarah Billmont (49:37): Yeah. It just reminded me of, Larys in, previous seasons. He's tried to make a move on her as well. Yeah.

Will Paul (49:46): Yeah. And also, I mean, I guess it's it's out there about her relationship with Cole because, you know, Jasper did did reference.

Unknown Speaker (49:55): Oh, yeah.

Will Paul (49:56): You know, the fact yeah. Yeah. And, you know, of course, obviously, Helena. Yeah. You know, of course, Helena, you know, whenever you know, when blood and cheese, like, you know, killed the the son, you know, she she saw what you know, she saw their relationship too.

Will Paul (50:13): So yeah.

Sarah Billmont (50:14): Yeah. Yeah. She I don't think I think that it's just, again, also a reminder that people may claim to be on your side, but the moment you're in a vulnerable position, they're gonna they're gonna do what they want to get something else and manipulate it again and get higher up and use their station to cover up the dirtiness of themselves. So I'm glad Damon took that that asshole out. So

Unknown Speaker (50:46): Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker (50:48): Yeah.

Will Paul (50:48): That was that was yeah. That and and also, you know, the you know, and also Allison's, you know, deal that she made with the Gold Cloaks. And I think she, you know, she remembering I think I don't know if she remembered Damon's. You know, he was captain of the guard at the at one point, but, you know, but she she knew that was part of the whole the whole, you know, making things happen as far as in order for Ranera to be able to get into Kings back into Kings now, Queens Landing. And then also Damon, you know, whenever they had that showdown there between the forces still loyal to Aegon and and the Goldcloaks.

Will Paul (51:28): And and, you know, I thought that was just a very, you know, it it those are like those little small moments or, you know, or not or or big moments where it, you know, it reminds you of all these relationships and and that these people have and and and and how things do, you know, do come full circle, because, you know, Damon being captain of, you know, and, you know, and and the the captain of the Gold Cloaks was like, yeah. You know, he provided me. He was my leader. So I I really those are all the textual things, and and that's why I think this episode I was more hyped about this episode as you saw how I stumbled out of the gate tonight with with the podcast. More hyped about this episode than I was I mean, I love last week's episode too, but this episode for me was just like why I fell in love with this show.

Will Paul (52:19): It was all all the pieces of it, you know, that happened here as far as the drama, those kind of things. Yeah. There was a little bit of action too, but it was just all the things we talked about here in the the last fifty minutes about, you know, how we why this this show when it when it's when it's hitting on all cylinders, we get episodes like this.

Sarah Billmont (52:43): Yeah. Yeah. I've I think that it was all just also a reminder that Alicent, just like Rhaenyra, grew up in that castle.

Unknown Speaker (52:54): Mhmm.

Sarah Billmont (52:55): Just like Damon. Like, they are not strangers, and they are also not, part timers. They grew up there. Therefore, loyalty runs deeper than just these surface level alliances. So and yet they still manage to work themselves in the situations where allegiances change.

Sarah Billmont (53:22): They still manage to find themselves like that. But we will be back next week to talk more, obviously, and we will continue on this season journey in Westeros.

Will Paul (53:35): You can find me on all the socials at Will and Polk, w I l l m p o l k.

Sarah Billmont (53:41): And you can find me there too at s j bellmont, s j b l m o n t. Please follow our crew on x, formerly known as Twitter at seen and nerd, on blue sky. Friend us on Facebook. Follow us on Instagram and threads at seen underscore n underscore n, and visit our website, www.seenandnerdpodcast.com. But most importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get podcasts.

Sarah Billmont (54:02): Good night, geek out. You're welcome.

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