Greetings, nerds. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont

Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight, Will?

Will: Doing very well. How are you doing this evening?

Sarah : I'm doing fine. Thanksgiving next week, we're getting to that time of year where things are ending and holidays and time off and family and craziness. But, yeah, it's that time of year. we have a very light news section, which I think is funny. But I did notice you didn't put something on the news section. And it's not necessarily that I want to talk about this, but, I am just curious.

Did you watch that Zack Snyder Rebel Moon trailer? I did not. I have no interest in it

Sarah : Did you watch that Zack Snyder Rebel Moon trailer?

Will: I did not.

Sarah : Okay. Finally, a week where I watched a trailer that Will did not. Thank you.

Will: I have no interest in it, to be completely honest. It just seems like, from what I gather about Rebel Moon, and I'm sure if folks want to flame me, go right ahead. But it sounds like it's a derivative of Star wars, and I'm just sort.

Sarah : Of, like, derivative of like five different things.

Will: Yeah. And I have no interest in it. but I don't have anything for you. Yeah.

Sarah : it's very much no shame in, how much of a derivative it is of a few different things. but for me, going in expecting that I was watching it, know this isn't bad. But then again, Snyder, love him or hate. Like, he knows how to shoot action. He knows to do big set pieces and honestly sell a convincing movie, until you sit down and watch it and then the dialogue is kind of a bit, like, weak. or the movie is just way too long. Way too long. But in terms of the premise, I was actually kind of intrigued by it, because I think going into it, I thought it was going to be the story itself would be much more of a Luke Skywalker. But no, it's not.

Will: Okay.

Sarah : I would argue it's not. It's more of like a Han solo type. and then some. So they also have an interesting element. So I was actually surprised by how much I liked the trailer. and I'm just intrigued. Am I going to watch it? Probably not, unless I just a lot of time off coming up. Where I could easily throw that on in the background.

Will: Yeah, it's coming out December, right?

Sarah : Yeah, I think so. I think mid December, just in time holidays, which makes sense. I mean, for streaming platforms to drop things around this time of year makes a lot of sense in terms of people are going to have time to sit down and want something to watch, especially if they're with friends or family. And so you're going to want to have your platform, be able to have all the options for the different variations of, like, let's do this together.

Will: Right? Yeah. And I know whenever, not to get into the sausage of what we preshow discussions, but that was the thing that I was drawing a blank on that I knew was coming up whenever I was like, there's something coming up next month. But I couldn't put my finger on it. And sure enough, it's the one time I didn't watch a trailer and you did. That was the one.

Sarah : man.

Will: The strike is over and the floodgates are opening

Sarah : Well, the last bit of news that we both are aware of, because everyone is aware of who has been following this thing, is that the strike is over and the floodgates are open with news about how things are starting and all of the winds. But is there anything you want to say as we conclude this story once and for all?

Will: as far as. Yes, things are getting scheduled. Release dates are getting set to be broken again. But, there were a couple of things that James Gunn did say that, he's moving ahead. Superman is still slated to premiere in July of 2025. but the real big thing for me is it was just nice. I didn't realize how much I have missed interviews with cast and crew until today, when I was able to really watch a few of Tom Hiddleston's, doing the rounds for Loki. And that's when I realized, for both of the things that we're talking about tonight, both Loki and also the Marvels, how important it really is for those publicity tours and junkets are for these IP, because hearing him talk about Loki's journey and everything, and I didn't get a chance to see any. BUt I also got just reading an article with Aman Velani talking about some of the behind the scenes stuff that she was when it filmed. A particular scene, in the Marvels, really reminded me what we were missing the last few months as far as with these projects and how it was actually good, newsworthy stuff, instead of somebody spitballing about something, and then they just create 15 YouTube videos about basically the same story over and over again that I heard. XYZ.

Sarah : Yeah, it's funny to me how there are movies that I have never seen and I can't even recall the name of them, but I have watched, press hope I'm not the only one who has binged pretty much all of the Jake Gyllenhaal and Ryan Reynolds interviews when they were promoting that one movie that I can't think of the title of, because they are hilarious. They are some of the best interview clips. Every now and then, I'll find myself in a black hole of just Avengers promotion clips because you have so many different characters talking, promoting the movie, and then you get on the whole train of, Tom Holland and Zendaya and all of those interviews and the brief glimpses and that dynamic and relationship, and then you go to something else. And when the actors truly are friends outside of work, I think that's what for me personally, I love to see them try to promote a movie together.

Will: Yeah, exactly.

Sarah : It's just so much fun. And you're right. I didn't think about it until you brought it up that it's been quiet. And I think maybe that's why last week I got out a soapbox and was just over this whole narrative that everyone is talking about Marvel and how it's the end of the world and the writings on the wall and all this stuff. And I'm just like, now I'm realizing, well, that's all anybody could talk about. Because the promotions and the entertainment that's just gained from the celebrities promoting a movie was just gone for months. M and I mean, granted, that's probably why. Well, that's maybe 10% of why everyone can't get enough of, Travis, Kelsey, And Taylor Swift.

Will: The entertainment ecosystem abhors a vacuum, so it's going to get filled. And to your point, whether it's Travis and Taylor or the endless rant of, like, the MCU is dying or fill in the blank. But you're right. I mean, the ecosystem has to get.

Sarah : It was. It was really funny to walk out of the marvels, and then I'm going walking past another theater, and I can clearly hear, like, Taylor Swift music Blast. And I'm thinking to myself, there's probably, like, one or two people in there, because there was only, like, five people in my showing, and there weren't a lot of cars in that parking lot. So it's like, poor thing. Will, why don't you pick? Do you want to start with Loki or Marvels?

Will: Let's start with the marvels.

Will Clark: The singing sequence in Avengers: Infinity War is controversial

Sarah : So, to kick off the, just going to. Because I think after all the research I've done, which means I've listened to so many people talk about the marvels, I think we need to start with arguably the most controversial sequence in all of cinema, because I'm telling you, the lines are being drawn pretty crazy, but I guess so that we can understand what sides we're on. Will, in this whole debate, what were your thoughts on the, would you call it singing sequence? Would you call it a Broadway sequence, an attempt at Bollywood, like the musical sequence that we all are very much aware of? What were your thoughts on that?

Will: So it was a bit that was, if you're going to do something like this, sell out and do it, because I think they clearly were committed to this idea of, what can we do? Because when I saw the trailer, I really thought, okay, this is a nice homage to Kamala's heritage, having a Bollywood musical, because that was the vibe that I was expecting whenever we did get to that scene in the movie. So I went into it pretty much open to the sequence until it happened, and then it took me out. Because it took me out, not because of the singing planet. What took me out of it was they didn't commit to it and it didn't feel earned in the sense that it would have been better if they had told it from Miss Marvel's viewpoint rather than Carol's viewpoint, because it was really. And it should have just maybe not go 20 minutes. From rumors I think I've heard, I think where the bit was supposed to be right, but I think it just didn't feel like it was earned. And it definitely was like where they were in the movie. It was just a weird tonal shift that it took me out of it. and musical in and of number, in and of itself is not a bad thing. I mean, hell, one of my favorite episodes of Star Trek, Strange New Worlds this season was when they did the musical. From that standpoint, didn't have a problem with the concept of it. It was just all in the execution, which I think when we talk about this movie tonight, that's going to be probably my biggest critique, where it's great concepts, but sometimes execution just wasn't there.

Sarah : Yeah, I was going to say that, honestly, I don't mind the sequence just because it's later in the movie. It's way later than I expected it to be. Granted, this is a very short movie, and up until that point, everything felt kind of, like, non committal. And we're trying to just get through the beats and we're doing what we can. we're trying to hit all of the important stuff, but we're not stopping. So this is going to be short. And where I think the most criticism, should be with that whole sequence that no one seems to be talking about is what the heck happened to that planet?

Will: Yes, exactly. And that was the other thing. I was thinking the same thing in that feed when I was watching it real time, before I heard anybody talk about that scene. Was we just, like, these folks just got annihilated, possibly, and you all just, again, goes back to, like I said, it's the execution.

Sarah : Yeah. The last words Carol says to the prince is, our plan will work, and we never see her return to him. Honestly, I feel bad for the actor, Park Sojun, because he was promoted. He was very much, in my opinion, and from things that I see, he was promoted as, like, finally, a Korean actor in the MCU, and he's going to have this role. And I think, because I honestly believe the rumors are true, that they cut it down. and unfortunately, anything that he brought was probably left on the cutting room floor, because I like this idea. Take out the musical element. Say what you will about that, but just the concept of we're getting a, glimpse into what she has been up to, and we find out she married a prince and is a. Like, that is very. Would she. I felt like that is one of the few scenes where we see Carol and we don't see Marvel, which I like, because that's another critique of this franchise, is that Carol Danvers? We don't know. Like, we know Miss Marvel, but she's very flat. She's basically Clark Kent, where you're okay. Like, something's not really pulling at my heart. so all that being said, I don't mind the sequence at all. It honestly didn't really take me out. I don't know why. I was just like, okay, this is where we are moving along.

Will: Yeah.

Sarah : That's how I can sum up my thoughts about this movie as a whole, is like, I found myself, I was smiling pretty much the whole time. I was laughing at pretty much all of the jokes. I didn't hear any really cringe writing that I heard in a different movie called Quantum Mania. But, for the most part, even though everything was, like, surface level, it was just really quick. It made sense, but it also was just. It went so fast that it couldn't really delve into anything.

Sarah : But I told you, I put this at the same table as I put love and thunder. The same table for me.

Will: I like this better than Love and Thunder. I think I dM'd you over the weekend. I was like, to no one's surprise, I like this movie better than Love and Thunder. and I remember whenever you told me your reaction over the weekend, you're like, it didn't make me mad. So I was like, I ever told you that's a win?

Sarah : Yeah. I mean, the worst thing it could have done was make me mad. And I think in talking about it, it does make me a little sad that there was a lot of potential for this to be, like, a really good movie. But honestly, it wasn't sold to me that it was going to be an amazing movie.

Will: Yeah. Thanks.

Sarah : I didn't go in with that expectation, and I think I got. What should I say? I think that the three actresses, just their on screen chemistry, they were having fun.

Sarah : And so I was having fun, and I loved their interactions. Everything about them made. It was good, it made sense. And I could see why they were doing this, why they wanted this movie. Because you have Carol, who, is this big hero, so to speak, and she finds herself entangled, with a girl she knew from her past as Carol, who she's let down, and who looked up to her just by being Carol. And then you have a girl who looks up to her because she's Miss Marvel and who has yet to be let down by her, but her whole hero complex, she doesn't see Carol. She sees Marvel and Captain Marvel. Captain Marvel, sorry. that whole, like, I really liked that. I wish the movie was longer so it could explore that more and explore a bunch of other things, but I'm also very much over two to 3 hours worth of unnecessariness. So as much, like all of the random stuff that did happen in this movie, I was fine with it, because we were in and we were out.

Will: Yeah, I completely agree with you. The places where I think where it could have used about ten more minutes was when Carol and Monica were Marie. Excuse me, not, Monica Rambo. Marie is the mother. But when they were dealing with Marie's death, yeah, absolutely. That's where. Because we were introduced, to it in WandaVision, so we already had Monica's understanding. She came back from the blip, understands the loss of her mother during that five year period. And then when we have the alien mind device that Carol uses to help her pull her memories back, whenever they have the infiltration, whenever Carol either she didn't know or guilt or whatever caused the memory to transfer over as far as what happened to Maria Rambo, and that whole sequence down, have they could have used that more? And because I felt they just rushed that sequence of their estrangement and the awkwardness and stuff. So that was one place where they could have let it breathe a little bit more, because later in the film, speaking of, to your point about, Kamala and Carol and the hero worship, and I pushed back to people who were saying that the whole fangirling thing, that narrative, just like, how you were grating about how people were ranting about things about Marvel last week, that's the one that gets me this week, because she was just being who she is.

I thought the heart of Miss Marvel was her family

Will: But the thing that I thought that they did a good job with Carol and Kamala was when Kamala recognized that, oh, I did not give you the space to be a person.

Sarah : Right.

Will: And I thought that was, like, one of the standout moments in the film for me, with the whole hero worship thing, that sometimes you don't always get in these superhero movies when someone's, like, fanboying or fangirling over a person, that they don't give them that space to get to know you as an individual. So I appreciate the fact that they did recognize that in the movie.

Sarah : Yeah, I, think, again, each character, has these moments that, honestly, I would say Kamala's moment, she went there a little bit too quick for. Okay. I didn't know that that was a struggle, but cool. yeah, I think there's just, like, the moments happen, and you accept them for what they are, and looking back on it, you're just like, man, ah, if only they could have done one more, go at that script, fleshed some things out, and didn't end up having to cut so much stuff, maybe we would have gotten the movie that we should have. Granted, I also think that this movie is just an underdog where it had a lot against it. So to come out being what it is, and for me to walk out and being like that wasn't so bad. I'm fine. None of the characters. I'm not mad at any of the characters. I'm not mad at, the writers, because, honestly, again, I can't say this enough. It wasn't sold to me that it was going to be this epic movie. So I didn't expect it. I expected a Saturday morning, like, cartoon. Honestly, that's what I got. But what I unexpectedly got was Kamala, was how much I like not only Kamala, but her friends are cool, but really, the heart of Miss Marvel was her family. And I knew we were going to get Kamala. I was not anticipating the family coming on for the ride. And so when we get the first sequence in the house, I'm like, cool. I love these people. The gang's all here. Awesome. And then when they're going up to the spaceship, I'm like, yes, we get more. And they're interacting with Fury. So I was just like, thank God you kept that element, because that was arguably the heart of the movie for me, where you're taking a character who we just know as being alone, and you're introducing her to a character who's significantly younger than her, but has this family and this baggage and is able to still teach her something just as much as Carol's able to teach Kamala about how to be a, glad. I feel like they took from all three of these characters and even Fury, and we'll get into Fury stuff, but, they took arguably the best elements and brought it to the table and just made cereal and I ate it cardboard.

Where does Fury fall on the MCU timeline with this film

Sarah : but to talk about Fury, because one of my nitpicks is just. And you even have a note about it on our rundown. but just like, ah, freaking secret invasion. Fury was Fury in this. But I did suffer through all six episodes of Secret Invasion. So please explain to me where the heck this movie falls on the timeline of things, because this is not the same Fury. And we did not see his wife, and we had plenty of time to see his wife.

Will: We had plenty of time to see his wife. We had plenty of times to figure out what happened. Mention that Talos lost there. I guess we can do it from two different perspectives. We can look at it from a production in real life perspective, which this film, the Marvels, which was supposed to come before secret invasion, as far as, but I think the special effects, I even remember as I think even talking about it, when the release date was moved on one of our shows, they moved it back due to, I think, the special effects and some other. And they had to do some reshoots and other stuff, so they flipped the order. So Antman came three came first, then secret Invasion, and this one came later this year came now. From that standpoint, how things sort of unfold in this film, that makes sense that it was supposed to come before secret invasion. but then you got the other side of it. If we go chronologically, we go chronologically, and chronologically, this does come after secret invasion on the. So from that standpoint, we're supposed to treat it that way. So maybe Disney, Marvel Studios will resolve this question on the official MCU timeline when they pun it out. I did look on Marvel.com today to see if they've done that, because this question has been kicked about quite a bit.

There's a theory that secret invasion took place in a different universe

Will: Ah, since the movies come out, I heard, interesting theory. I was listening to Jay Washington, on the breakdown, one of the shows on the, new rock Stars Network, and he had a theory which actually makes a lot of sense. that secret invasion took place in a different universe, given that we're all. Yeah. And I was like, well, that's plausible. there's still a lot of things that you have to accept, because it doesn't really build up to that.

Sarah : It's more like, well, that's a convenient thing that they built into their whole universe. If we don't like something, or if something doesn't sit well with the, viewers, just say that was in an alternative universe.

Will: Yeah. Which, now that we're in the multiverse saga, you can make a good faith argument that that is indeed the case.

Sarah : And then I'll just say, damn it, Loki.

Will: Yeah, exactly. but, no, I just think that, honestly, this is one of those situations where, I think production things screwed up. Continuity things as far as story. Either that or Nick just went back to the station after Secret Invasion and got his mojo back, and he's healed compared to the broken man that we saw in secret invasion. But they have conveniently forgotten so many things. Like, we're still in phases four and five. I mean, we still have from phase four, the big celestial in the middle of the ocean, and also Gaia's supercharged power, where she seems like even more powerful than Captain Marvel at this mean. There's just a lot of.

Sarah : Just.

Will: I think secret Invasion is going to probably go into the Marvel spotlight, where it's just like, through the larger continuity. It's just.

Sarah : So the.

The last controversial, I guess, sequence, or maybe even line I want to talk about

Sarah : The last controversial, I guess, sequence, or maybe even line I want to talk about and get your thoughts on is obviously goose. Goose, had a big role in this movie, definitely from my perspective. I wasn't expecting that. And it took some turns. I think he or she had the most twists. I'm guessing it's a she based, on those twists. Pregnancy, lot of cats. so just in terms of the hurting cat sequence, Will, what are your thoughts on this?

Will: So I did do just a non spoiler out of the theater reaction for our channel, and I did say there was a moment where I rolled my eyes, and this was that moment. And also a little bit of agreed. Kamala's mother, which Mom's supposed to be annoying, but I love the family, but it was starting to grate on me just a little bit. But the bigger eye roll was the bit with Goose and the herding cats. Maybe it's just my visceral hatred of the musical cats. It just didn't work for me, because when I started playing memory, I was just like, okay, I'm tapping out. I'm done.

Sarah : So I didn't even make that connection. But that is hilarious. And that just makes me, like, this whole sequence that much better, because I loved it, because it felt like something I could see in a thor movie. It felt like a sequence I would see. Maybe even. This is a long shot. The boys. The boys would be a lot more bloodier and a lot more gross. It would be. It was like the Disney Princess version of that, where just the idea of, please let them eat you, please don't run, please don't escape. It's like this beautiful twist that I was not expecting. And as soon as it didn't take me for long to realize, oh, that's going to be the plan. And then five minutes later, that was the plan. I'm like, yeah, but for whatever reason, the whole slow motion sequence of these people running, and then you hear it over the intercom, please let them eat you. I was just like, this is actually hilarious. I love this.

Will: Don't get me wrong. It's funny because. Call me out on it, because the sequence in the flash didn't bother me. But for whatever reason, and like I said, I think it was, I, will freely admit, the cats, the musical, it just ruined it for me, and it just took me out of it. So I think that's where just kind of, like, I get where they were going. I just felt like it just didn't work for me. It just didn't. It was a bit that, to me, I was just like, okay, let's just get through this.

Sarah : Yeah.

Will enjoyed the mid credit scene in Avengers: Infinity War

Sarah : The last thing that I want to touch on, before we get into Loki, is the mid credit scene where Monica, after saving the day, but in a way, self sacrificing herself because she finds herself in a different reality, wakes up and sees her mom, or, I forget, what's her name on that in this universe.

Will: Oh, gosh.

Sarah : it's like, on the tip of my tongue, it's not photon. well, she sees her mom, and then we end up seeing, beast who names drops to Charles, and we've entered, Binary. That's the name. That's the name. Binary. we're in an X Men universe of sorts, because it was Kelsey Grammar who reprised his role as Beast. Will, what did he think about this mid credit scene?

Will: So, unfortunately, I got spoiled by this, stupid Twitter. Stupid. And it wasn't even like during, with the release. It was like about a week or so ago. So I heard about it. And so unfortunately, I liked, mean, it was cool. I know a lot of folks with Hank, with, the, the CG was very, almost like X menous as far as the animated series, type of, so I was like, oh, maybe they're going to tie this into maybe with the reboot of the animated series that they're bringing, to, Disney plus in the future. But, overall, I like where they're going. It definitely, is setting up for Deadpool and some other things here in phase five, with the multiverse saga. So, I enjoyed it. The sequence that I did not get spoiled on, though, was the whole Kate Bishop one, really, really did. Like, that sequence there at the end, with Kamala, and, Kate and having a name drop of Cassie and all that. So to me, that was the one that actually got more of a rise out. I mean, one, because I didn't get spoiled, but two, I think in the spirit of the film and everything, it just felt more organic for me instead of just like, because it wasn't like the mid. And I'm glad they placed it where they did instead of putting it at a mid credit and then having beast as the end credit because it just felt more like a natural flow to the story than the typical MCU mid credit. Like, here's what we tease.

Sarah : Yeah, I agree with that. Between the two of them, I do prefer the Kamala one, but that's just because I find any scene that actress is in, she elevates. And I just like, because she's so likable. She truly is. Truly is of this.

Will: Truly.

Sarah : I can't wait for those two to have a scene.

Will: As I noted at the beginning of the show tonight, I was reading an article from Aman Velani, and she was talking about filming the scene with, Haley Stansfeld. and actually how they did know there was a scripted part, but there was also where they did some improv and there was a whole bit where they started talking about pizza. It just sounds like if there is like ever a, ah, blooper reel or editor's cut, of, them filming that scene, I would love to see it because it just sounds like they were having so much fun. and again, gets to the point where we were making before about glad that, the actors were able to get a good deal with the resolution of the strike because these are the kind of things that we've been missing out on, over the last few months.

Sarah : Yeah, definitely. All right, well, that is our discussion on the Marvels. if you haven't seen it and you just listened to all of that, you've seen it, although you should because it's not going to hurt you, because it's not horrible. I wouldn't necessarily say go out to your cinemas. You must see this on the big screen, but it's satisfiable. It is fine.

Will: I still prefer the first season over the second season

Sarah : all right, well, that brings us to Loki, the season finale, series finale, the glorious purpose of it. Will, what do you want to say about Loki?

Will: Where to begin? just like this season with the whole OB Oroboros, we have the ultimate meta Oroboros with the glorious purpose, episode one of season one. And we conclude with that as well. But much larger point, for me, at least with this series, has been just the exploration of taking Battle of New York Loki, and being plucked into the TVA and seeing the growth of the character over these twelve episodes. we got that in the cinematic side of Loki, where, of course, we saw the growth and the sacrifice that he makes in Infinity War to save Thor. But in this series, seeing the growth of the version of the Loki that at that point, we were first introduced to him in Thor one, and it's 2012 Loki, and he still has that goal of being on the throne, the throne, being the ruler, being. Yes, he's a god of mischief, but it's a very selfish, very self centered Loki. And seeing the growth to the point where in this time, when he makes a sacrifice, it's not only for his friends, but it's for the whole universe. and really, he does meet his glorious purpose. And whether it's a burden or whether it's, ah, something that he is thrilled to have, it's up to interpretation. I mean, that ambiguous look on his face whenever he transcends. you can read so many things into it. But to me, this was probably one of the most satisfying character arcs. I've seen a four character in some time. whether it's Marvel, DC, Star Trek, whatever. I've really enjoyed the arc that they took this character on in the series.

Sarah : Yeah. I'm still just lukewarm. I don't know why I keep thinking about it and I keep trying to figure out what it is, but for whatever reason, I still prefer the first season over the second season, I understand the brilliance. Not the brilliance, but I understand why everyone is obsessed with this season and how it concludes. And to everything you just said about the arc of it all. and I prefer this week's episode over last week's episode, but there was just still something about it where I'm just a little bit unsatisfied. There were aspects of this where I'm just trying to think, because just last week we talked about Gen V season finale. And I love Gen V season finale. I love their season two finale. I love the last of us all the way. There are so many finales I've watched this year. And it's not that this wasn't good. It makes all the sense in the world. I can't sit here and tell you this is how I would make this better. But I have to be honest. And for whatever reason, it felt a bit telegraphed. Oh, yeah. Honestly, I guess I'll say it just made too much sense.

Will: Yeah, no, that's a very fair criticism. And I've seen. I hear what you're saying and I think on balance, the lead up to his transcendence from Little G to Big G. God, I can see where I think, to your point, season one, I think, probably had more bangers of an episodes where I think this season, now that we were all six, I think episode two, where we first see Sylvie in the McDonald's in Oklahoma.

Sarah : Does,

Will: Yeah, it is definitely the, Takes this season two down a notch a bit from season one.

Sarah : Yeah. But you could argue that about episode three in season one where they're on the train the whole time.

Will: But see, the train episode was just so when you look at it now in the whole context of the whole, that was a much more powerful episode and really drives a lot of what happens as far as with Loki's journey and really begins that transformation from him differentiating himself from all the other.

Sarah : I mean, I didn't come, ah, prepared to talk about the train episode.

Will: Yeah.

Sarah : Because I don't remember that episode the same way you appeared to do. I guess just focusing on the season finale and what happens in this episode.

Jonathan Major: I think the concept of the sequence is great

Sarah : I guess to really start us off on that, and to refocus, what were your thoughts about Act One, which is essentially Loki going back in time and reliving the ending of episode four for centuries.

Will: Yeah. to use, another project, the groundhog based scenario or whatever, it worked for me in that, you know. Yes. It was repetitive. Yes. You know, we. I've seen this bit before in other time travel shows and things like that and movies. But the thing for me, the lessons that he learned in the process of doing this gives greater foundation for what we get in the final act of this episode, where he does transcend. and it also piggybacks on some of the things from the penultimate episode with the science versus fiction. So Loki learned all of this science to do this, with the scaling issue with the loom. But at the end of the day, it took a little bit of, I guess, science fiction as far as the magic to be able to, actually solve this problem. It sort of picks up on some of those things from the prior episode as far as with the what versus the who.

Sarah : Right. I think that the concept of the sequence is great. My, nitpick with it is. I don't know why he never went back to the first episode. M because they were dealing with the same problem in the first episode and he had more time in the first episode. My frustration with this sequence came after the fifth time. And I'm like, why is he not going back further? And then he spends centuries, which is a great bit, learning all of this mathematics, and I'm still sitting here, like, why do you go there and not. I just need to go back further. I mean, technically, the problem started in that first episode. Now, granted, he does end up going back further. And this is arguably tied for. One of my favorite scenes in this episode is he who remains. And I love this because I love the season one finale so much. And it's like, Jonathan Major, say what you will about the man, but this role and him in it, he's just so good. And this conversation that they have and, that a lot of people have talked about and just the power shifts that are at play and how it keeps you, as a viewer, on your toes because it plays with time ironically.

Will: Yeah.

Sarah : the thing that kept bothering me, though, as much as I love the sequence, is I'm still sitting here, like, so you're never going to tell me why Loki is the only one time slipping and why he's the only one who can continue to learn about how to manipulate. Like, we're never going to get that answer. That's annoying to.

Will: And. But I think they leave that up to leave that. There's some things that sometimes you just have to leave up to the viewer to interpret. And I think that's one of those things because I think if they told us, then we would be nitpicking. Like, that doesn't make sense to the time travel rules of back to the Future or back to whatever. So I think this is where you can use your imagination.

Sarah : I could use my imagination, but I honestly don't know what my options are because I have no idea why he is time slipping and Sylvie is not.

Will: I'm just thinking of keeping it to the context of the rules that they've established for this show at Nexus events and incursions. I don't know if it's maybe with his incursion of when. Well, I guess when Sylvie kicked him back, whenever she did kill he who remains, if that created a situation where he was. I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know. I don't know if it's because she remained at the end of time. She insulated from a bubble. It seems to OB. In the fifth episode, seems to intimate that there was something within Loki that, whether was a strong emotional response or something, was triggering the time jump. So sort of like quantum leap with, like, you know, initially, Sam stepped into the time travel machine and was sent back in time. But over the course of the series and at the way things end. Spoiler alert. For at least the first series, Quantum leap with Sam Beckett, it seemed that Sam was the one who was controlling the leaps all along, and he chose to remain the time traveler. So maybe it's a similar thing with Loki at some innate level. Loki was able to do this time slipping because his will was there to do. then, you know, when we get to the scene here in the finale with he who remains, he was like, oh, so you figured out how to do all this stuff, so maybe that's where we're coming from. With that. Sylvie never learned that lesson. That's why she always had used tempad.

Sarah : Maybe. what did you think about the he who remains sequence?

Will: That was my other favorite part. I had to say, if I had to give this one, it was like a nine out of ten for me. Everything about this episode just really worked for me. so, yeah.

The first act is a tour of the best episodes of the first season

Sarah : that leads him to go visit Mobius. And I was not expecting, season one premiere. I do appreciate the fact that after you get through the first act, it becomes sort of a tour of the best episodes, where we take a stop at the season one finale and then the first episode of the first season. this is before friendship bracelets are exchanged. like in my fan fiction, where I'm using my imagination, I am totally, like, these two totally exchange friendship bracelets. And that's why Loki's just like, I'm fine. I got my eyes mainly on Mobius. I'm going to watch him while he's watching Creeper. Oh, man.

Owen Wilson plays Mobius in a powerful scene this season

Sarah : But we see Mobius and we're back in the, interrogation room. but it's a different, I thought it was interesting how Owen Wilson played it because initially he's in the scene that we know, and then it's almost like he realizes, whoa, this isn't the same person I was talking to literally a minute ago. And then they have this conversation and we get more insight into pre Loki, Mobius and, Ren Slayer's relationship, and we get a pretty amazing speech about glorious purpose and burdens and not the comfort and the glory that comes with.

Will: I mean, that scene, when the realization for Mobius that he was like, that's not the same guy I was talking to. that was definitely a very powerful moment. But to me, it was also just, whenever Mobius is telling Loki about the story, when they're chasing down the kid, and take it back to the marvels, too, with whoever, like Carol was telling, you know, we can't save with. And thinking now with Mobius, and Rinslayer, where he froze and she had to be the one to take care of things. And thinking back to our conversations we've had about Renslayer this season, being the judge, and how we saw her take on that role in the second season, whenever she was trying to take care of Victor Tomley, and all that, it really was a nice bookend to what we've seen, as you noted, with some of the greatest hits of the series.

I don't want to see Mobius without Loki in Deadpool 3

Sarah : Yeah, I've heard some good interpretations of this scene. And what I like about what I've heard and what I've thought about is that that story, in terms of this whole. For this season, a lot of Mobius was more about, like, what's his life on the timeline, on the sacred timeline. And so people have pointed out, he hesitated because he is the father of an eight year old boy on the timeline. And that whole idea that, as we've seen, in terms of comparing these characters from the TVA with who they are on the sacred timeline, we're seeing glimpses of that play out in the TVA, meaning that even though they've been mind wiped so many times, there's still aspects of that that live within their subconscious. And so I thought that was something very good and so subtly played. I think one of the reasons why this whole episode didn't hit me as hard as maybe others is. Arguably, I am very much unfulfilled with Mobius in the terms of, it's sweet, him looking, like, finding himself without his best friend, so sad, his brother in arms, his long lost love, like, looking on what his life would have been. But I guess they left that door so wide open where I'm just like, so he's just going to be a creeper on himself for the rest of his life. Like, what's going on here? But at the same time, I will say this right now, I don't want to see Mobius without, like, if you're going to put Mobius in something and if he's going to show up, because I know the TVA is going to be involved in Deadpool three, really looking forward to it, but I don't want to see Mobius because I know Loki is not going to be there.

Will: Right.

Sarah : The next time they use Loki, it's going to be a bit. Yeah, it has to, or else it'll negate some of the stuff that goes on in this episode.

Will: Yeah, that's my big concern, too, moving forward, with Mobius as well, because everybody's like, oh, he's going to show up. Don't worry, Mobius is going to show up at Deadpool three and all that. but the poignancy of that moment where he's looking at that house, and really gets to, again, some of the overarching themes with this series and this season, really even funner with the questions of choice versus free will and changing the mission of the TVA. Now that Loki is in the world tree, I'm not going to pretend to try to pronounce the Norse name for it. but, Loki's given everybody that choice now versus Mobius being the company man before, when his mind was wiped and he just went along with the orders and all that. Now he's got that choice and he's standing there pondering that choice as far as, what do I do now? Because I have the agency that I didn't have before. To me, not only. So it's almost like if he shows up in Deadpool three without Loki, or if they both show up in Deadpool three, to me, in some regards, it undercuts some of the beauty that they've created here with finishing out this story. It's like when everybody was. When the crazy things are saying that Tony Stark could come, know, at least RDJ's, version of Tony Stark could come back. And I'm like, no, don't. His ending was perfect in Endgame. NoW, if you want know with secret wars, if you want to do something else with a new actor, fine, but don't bring back Jr. Yeah.

Sarah : Yeah.

Mobius: I think they stuck true to their story with this ending

Sarah : I'm curious to get your thoughts on Renslayer's ending because as you talked about last week, she finds herself, pruned back to the end of time. now, my interpretation is it's Eliath who she sees. Yeah, it is. But there is the pyramid in the background, and more importantly, there's the pan shot to the ground, which beneath some of the grass, you can see the TVA symbol for all of time, forever and always. So what is your interpretation of that?

Will: That's a loose end. That I think given that, assuming that we're going to have a multiversal war in the MCU, and I think because of this loose end that's out there, that she's in the timeless void, she is still a threat. So I read that, she didn't get an alley to buy, Elias. I think she could come back and play a role in the future multiverse, of war if they continue down. If they continue down that path with the Kang story. I mean, that's the other thing with this ending, too. I mean, if they wanted to switch gears and go in a different direction, they could conceivably do so the way they ended this series. And I know the showrunner, the EPs, and the writers both are like, we don't know. We told our story, and that's up to Kevin Feige. But Kevin could go in a different direction.

Sarah : Yeah, they definitely told their story that they wanted to and left as many loose threads as they could, which wouldn't take away from the story that they wanted to, which I can't fault them for, because I think a lot of the criticism that you could give to this season and this episode goes all to the supporting cast or not the supporting cast, because they're all phenomenal actors, but the supporting characters. And just like some of the loose ends involving Loki himself, to go back to what you kicked off this whole discussion with had a very fulfilled arc, very fleshed out, which makes sense because this show is called Loki. and I was thinking about this, especially when I bring up the most recent show that we reviewed, Gen V. Gen V is called Gen V. It's not called Bloody Marie. She may be our main heroine, but she's not necessarily the title character. And so there's a difference. Where in past we've talked about the Flash, we've talked about Arrow, and we've seen their journeys over multiple seasons. And by the end of it, you're not getting much from the character and your supporting cast is suddenly off on their own adventures. So I think in terms of balance, they stuck true. We know the story we want to tell with Lope and we know the characters that are essential. And I think that's why as much as Sylvie, Sylvie's purpose was very much for the first season, which, when she's brought into this season, it's very sparingly because her purpose has now changed. Her arc in the first season is to make sure by this episode, you understand she will never not kill King or not kill he who remains. I'm sorry, I made that mistake. I told myself I wouldn't because I was tired of hearing people say Kang in this, like, no, no, that's he who. No, no, go back and watch Quantum Mania. That's where you get your king. Whatever. yeah, but this season, we needed little reminders of that. And then we needed the scene in this episode where it's like, I'm not going to give you permission to kill me. You're going to have to make that choice. But I will argue you need to give us, like, the alternative option is this. And he ends up going there. but, yeah, I think, say what you will about other characters not being a bit more incomplete, not having the best arcs this season. But that wasn't the purpose. it was truly to get Loki to ascend the way he did and to make his journey all worth it. We got plenty of time with everyone.

Will: Know they. Because they know now that we have the new TVA and they've gone from pruning to protecting, we do get a nod from B 15 to Mobius about, Antman and the Wasp and they dealing with, quantum mania. Excuse mE. And, dealing with the Kang variant. they're going to be helped now. I guess that's their new mission now, these variants. So maybe B 15 will be the one who will actually show up in Deadpool three. As far as the TV eight, maybe it won't be.

Sarah : Yeah, that's what my money is on. Mobius might make an appearance, but I don't see him being like the introductory introduction into the TVA for Deadpool. I see it more as B 15 and Brad.

Sarah : And Brad. If we can have Brad back, that would be great. Thank you.

Will: Now that all the TV agents have free will and can make their choices. Brad might be. You know, I'm a hiatus right now and come back from my movie.

Sarah : You. You can't just introduce us to Brad and then take him away, like. No, I'm invested.

Will: Exactly.

Sarah : Oh, man.

Tom Hiddleston gave some great interviews about Thor and Loki

Sarah : All right, any other thoughts on.

Will: Mean? like I said, it was just really great to hear some of Tom Hiddleston's. If you haven't seen, some of the interviews he's been doing out there, you can go to any number of YouTube channels. but, one story that, I did like was, how he came up with the suggestion of closing the loop from Thor. One. And, for you, for all of us, line that he gave to Thor and how that evolved when Loki stepped into the gangway, there at the end when he says it back to Sylvie and Mobius, and how the intentions behind that quote evolved, from the character that we saw at the beginning, as I noted, to the Loki that we get at the end of the series.

Sarah : Yep, the God of stories.

Sarah : All right, Will, on that note, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?

Will: Yes, you can find me on X, formerly known as Twitter, at Willmpolk, mwillmmpolk.

Sarah : And you can follow me there, too, at SJ Belmont. S-J-B-E-L-M-O-N-T. Please follow our crew on Twitter, at scene, and nerdfinness on Facebook. Follow us on Instagram and threads at scene, underscore N, underscore nerd, and visit our website, WW dot scenanderdpodcast.com. But most importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.