House of the Dragon S3E8: "Treachery and Tumbleton" | Rhaenyra's Choices, Aegon's Revelations, and the Price of Leadership

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>> Will: Foreign.

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>> Sarah : This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah

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Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr.

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Producer, Will Paul. How are you doing tonight,

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Will?

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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. Looking forward to talking

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House of the Dragon season finale with you.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, we're already here. Can you believe it?

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>> Will: I know these past eight weeks have just, like,

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zipped by. I mean, it's hard to believe that we.

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We're at the season finale here and. Yeah. But I.

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I really just go ahead and just put. Put the,

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bottom line up front. I really have enjoyed this

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season.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, I, I think my bottom line that I would put

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up front and just overall thoughts about this show

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is that in previous years, when we do our, like,

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best at the end of the year, the top 10 or top

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five best shows. Right. I usually talk about

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things I look for, and one of the big things is

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consistency. This season is very consistent. The

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finale, it's a very solid finale. And I've also

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mentioned, the. There are cases where, yeah, the

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season was all over the place, but there are,

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like, one or two episodes where it just blew my

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mind. And it. And those episodes should be studied

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in film school. I feel like TV show runners should

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study the structure of this season, this specific

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season, not one episode in particular, but the

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overall season, and just how to tell a story over

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the course of eight or 10 episodes and have

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multiple storylines, but also a very dominant a

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storyline and not meandering. I don't like not

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spending too much time in one place or not enough

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time in another place. So I just. I felt like last

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night, when I really thought about it, overall,

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this is just a solid television or season of

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television. And I think that it is a

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demonstration, an example of how to tell a season

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of television in the modern age. Like, I don't

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think story. I think storytelling has evolved to

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this point. And, in comparison to other shows, it

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just feels like, no, no, no. This one, this season

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in particular of House of the Dragon is just like,

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no, this is how we're doing things these days. You

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can have an A, B and C storyline, you can have an

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ensemble cast, but you have to be able to have it

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all go back to the same thing. Like, you. You

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can't have an absent hero or main character, but

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you also have to have them present and changing.

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And as other characters change, they should be

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changing. Like the impact there. There's a lot

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going on here. I mean, arguably this season, for

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about as much time as we spend with Rhaenyra, we

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spend equal amount of time with all of the

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Hightowers.

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>> Will: Yeah, we do, we do.

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>> Sarah : And Allison is shown one time in this finale.

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Right. Rightfully so. Because at that point like

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she played her part and she had no reason to

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really be seen in this finale. And it just again,

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it always Things like that always make me wonder,

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okay, geographic.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : How long does it take to get from point A to point

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B? And also she was technically walking, so I

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don't know anymore. But so to.

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To get into House of The Dragon Season 3, Episode

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8, the Treasons of Tumbleton, we're going to start

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with Team Rhaenyra the Cool. And. And it just all

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starts basically where we ended up last episode

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with the. The. Okay. Aegon has risen, but more

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importantly, Sunfire has risen and now. And that

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news just immediately gets strong. Rhaenyra and

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that immediately she turns to Damon and we again

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have.

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Arguably my favorite theme that was stretched

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across this season is this idea that the

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Targaryens are higher gods than the gods of the

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Seven or the seven faced God that that is known in

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Westeros. And because he tells her in this moment

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of dire and distraugh that the lesser gods have no

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say in what is to come. We are the blood of old

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Valeria. You have absolute power in your grasps

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and only you can. All you have to do is wield it.

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And which. Which is then later used as she

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convinces Sir Allen to. To kill the sept because

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the sept are denying her anointment and ascension

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to the throne. And she. She gives the pretty much

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the same information to him and is like we're semi

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related. Don't know exactly how, but we're. We're

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related. You are of this blood. This blood is in

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you. And I, I just. I like how it. It was used in

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the beginning of the episode to really convert her

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to the quote unquote dark side. And then it was

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also she used in turn to make sure that Alan

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doesn't back up. Back out of what she needs him to

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do in that moment.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

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I mean, wow, there's a lot of things to unpack

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there. So first of all, I think as far as her

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crash out as some people will call it. But also I

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think it goes. And when you started with Alison, I

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had to think about the warning she gave to

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Mysaria, and also to Rhaenyra early on in the

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season when as far as you know, the warning she

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gave, that Allison gave to Mysaria was of course

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just Daemon and Rhaenyra are two sides of the same

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coin. And when push comes to shove, they will do

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what they must. And then I'm thinking of two. When

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Alicent warned Rhaenyra, because we talked earlier

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in the season, how even though Rhaenyra had this,

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like, you know, had a court, whenever she needed,

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like, real counsel, she would turn to Allison

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because of their long history that they have

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together.

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>> Sarah : Yeah.

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>> Will: And she warned her like that, you know, all of

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this is going to change you.

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>> Sarah : Yeah.

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>> Will: So, when everything went down and she. And when

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she heard news of Aegon and, you know, she was

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having that moment with Damon, she, you know, at

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that moment, she. She decided Damon was right.

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>> Sarah : Yeah.

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>> Will: Yeah. And, and, and, and, and so I guess part of

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it, you know, part of it, like, is it Rhaenyra the

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cruel or Rhaenyra the fascist or whatever? I mean,

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yeah, she. She had her radical moment owned after

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she did all the actions there and Decept and, you

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know, killing the. Having Alan kill the people.

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And then, you know, just loved how they had her

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look. I mean, just the costume and her eyes, you

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know, with the blackness around her eyes and

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stuff. But part of me is like, is she a villain or

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is she just doing the things that she, as a ruler

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needed to do that Daemon's been trying to tell her

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all season that in order to sometimes keep order,

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you have, you know, gotta. You have to wield the

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power that you have as leader and make these hard

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choices.

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>> Sarah : The beauty of these characters is all of them are

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heroes and villains in their own right. Okay,

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we've heard how much I've been on Allison's quote

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unquote team. Okay. I. I understand Allison and

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why she does what she did, commit a few crimes

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there, but she also is. Is doing some other stuff.

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Like she. There. There is a. To play the Game of

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Thrones. Everyone is a villain because to get what

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you want, somebody else can't get what they want.

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So I, I think that she's a villain just as much as

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she was a villain in season one, not more with

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this power. And, and really in this episode, what

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you're seeing and why now, people, viewers are

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like looking at Rhaenyra as being the cruel or

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more of the villain archetype. It's because this

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season featured a lot of Hightowers. Right.

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Hightowers, who are scrambling and now suddenly

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they're the dog. Season two felt very much like

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Rhaenyra is never going to get what she wants. And

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so she was the underground dog and she had it

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taken away from her. And we knew what Viserys

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wants and we've all. And it's not that we still

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don't know that at the end of the day, that was

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the honest truth, and she was robbed of it.

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But we're also seeing how Helena's treated, and we

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love Helena. Elena did nothing wrong. Okay.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I just want to raise my chickens.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. She's the most innocent person in this

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entire cast, so. And yet she. She gets one kid is

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It. Gets killed in the middle of the night. She.

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She has another that she is manipulated to

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practically abandon, which never wanted to do. And

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then she's. Then she's like, if I have this baby,

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I have to give it. So, yeah, she's going to kill

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herself. So. So. But we also see the intensity of

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the hostage situation, and that's another reason

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why Rhaenyra is viewed more as a villain by the

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end of this episode is because of that treatment

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of Helena in terms of, oh, you're not going to

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eat. I'm going to force you to. And it was very

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violent and very like, oh, my God. So. So it. It

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was like waterboarding. It felt like I was.

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That's. That's a lot.

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>> Will: It was. But. But the thing is, to me, it's almost

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sounded like a false choice because regardless of

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whichever way Rao is going to go would handle Hel.

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Helena. I mean, because, you know. You know,

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you're confused and living. You know, just. What

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was it? If you're, Do you think life is nothing

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more than not being dead? I mean, it's. It's so

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Rhaenyra and her. I love that line because it's

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like, it. It really gets to the. The crux of,

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like, you know, Renero was looking at this like,

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I'm being. I'm, you know, I, Yes. I'm keeping you

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alive. I'm not going to be. So. You're my. You're.

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You're my half sister. I'm not going to, like,

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kill you, you know, But Helena was like, yeah, but

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you are killing me because you're holding me

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hostage. And I, you know, just. It was just so

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poignant as far as that line, as far as just like,

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you know, looking around you and, you know, and

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then, you know, when she doubles down on it with,

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you know, calling, you know, calling everything

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about the, you know, King's Landing ugly and to

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keep ugly. It's just like this. All of this is

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just a very. Is a. It's a very ugly thing for us

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all here.

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>> Sarah : Well, not everything is UG ugly in King's Landing.

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Not Blue Beetle. That's only found in King's land

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that feeds. That's a beautiful thing. So it was

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more like everything Renera touches turns ugly,

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and there's an ugliness. But I think it just is a

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very poignant line in terms of, like, you're

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keeping me alive, yet you are taking everything,

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like, life away from me, my life away from me. So

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I. I don't want to be around. So. Yeah. Again,

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another reason that it made sense that Helena just

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kills herself by the end of this episode. And she,

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It just. And it breaks my heart, mainly because

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we'll never get it. Helena. Al scene. I'm just.

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I'm just saying. I'm just saying that's the

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coolest thing that Rhaenyra has done all season.

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She took that away from us. But just like, how

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there's been a buildup between this. Renera doing

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what Damon wants in terms of wielding the power,

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and then. And I'm not going to say White Worm,

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because we talked about that last week. I'm going

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to say doing what she saw her dad do, it ties way

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more into her perspective on her father and how he

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ruled than I think anybody else. Because, so it

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was torn between husband slash uncle and father.

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And. And though. And. And then that helps also

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just continue to show how similar and different

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those two siblings were in terms of Viserys and

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Damon as well. And. And so we see this buildup

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between. With. With her kind of like, I'm not

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anointed yet. I know this is what my dad wants,

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but the gods seem to despise me. And then she's

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00:13:02,911 --> 00:13:07,151
just. She's like. Her hand is forced. She's like,

241
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you guys now suddenly believe that Aegon is a

242
00:13:10,391 --> 00:13:12,991
second coming? Well, I'm just gonna kill y' all

243
00:13:13,151 --> 00:13:17,551
because I don't know what else to do here.

244
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Well, simultaneously, you also see her continue

245
00:13:23,551 --> 00:13:26,551
to. Based on the conversation with Helena, but

246
00:13:26,551 --> 00:13:29,251
also there's conversation with Baela about

247
00:13:29,251 --> 00:13:34,531
Corliss, and there's a conversation with Alan and

248
00:13:34,851 --> 00:13:38,371
just. And Alan and Adam also have a conversation.

249
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What was your take on their conversation about

250
00:13:42,371 --> 00:13:46,451
Alan's clear allegiance to Rhaenyra?

251
00:13:47,411 --> 00:13:50,611
>> Will: Yeah, a couple things, you know, one, I'm glad you

252
00:13:50,611 --> 00:13:52,531
brought up Bayla. I was. I was thinking about that

253
00:13:52,531 --> 00:13:55,651
as well. Bela, you know, basically speaking truth

254
00:13:55,651 --> 00:13:58,051
of power was doing all this. And then, you know,

255
00:13:58,051 --> 00:14:01,471
and really. And then also just Adam and Alan, you

256
00:14:01,471 --> 00:14:04,311
know, this woman, like, spit in our father's faces

257
00:14:04,391 --> 00:14:07,031
as far as trying to get us legitimized. And yes,

258
00:14:07,031 --> 00:14:10,351
I. You know, we both have gotten our various

259
00:14:10,351 --> 00:14:13,311
things, you know, Now Alan is like, you know,

260
00:14:13,311 --> 00:14:17,391
basically de facto hand, and Adam is, you know, is

261
00:14:17,391 --> 00:14:20,191
a. Is a Dragon rider. But, you know, why are you

262
00:14:20,191 --> 00:14:22,991
putting yourself through this? As far as, you

263
00:14:22,991 --> 00:14:26,391
know, was it to honor our father because of like,

264
00:14:26,391 --> 00:14:28,671
as far as keeping the loyalty? I mean, you know,

265
00:14:28,671 --> 00:14:30,271
so I was wondering what some of the motivations

266
00:14:30,271 --> 00:14:33,131
that was there for. For that. And then of course

267
00:14:33,131 --> 00:14:36,971
with Bela and. And Rhaenyra, you know, just like,

268
00:14:36,971 --> 00:14:39,091
look, you didn't get the job done. And then, you

269
00:14:39,091 --> 00:14:42,051
know, and then of course, you know. Yeah. Which is

270
00:14:42,051 --> 00:14:44,731
true. Yeah. I mean, you know, she's like, well, if

271
00:14:44,731 --> 00:14:47,531
you. If all of you people around me had done what

272
00:14:47,531 --> 00:14:51,011
I. What. What I've asked, if you had just burnt.

273
00:14:51,091 --> 00:14:53,451
Yeah. You saw Sin Fire's corpse there, why didn't

274
00:14:53,451 --> 00:14:55,611
you like go down there like, you know, like

275
00:14:55,611 --> 00:14:58,531
dracarys the corpse to make sure it was indeed

276
00:14:58,531 --> 00:15:00,531
dead? I mean, there's just so many things that was

277
00:15:00,531 --> 00:15:03,391
like, you know, it's. It's like when. When like

278
00:15:03,391 --> 00:15:06,311
bad advisors or bad folks. I mean, it's. You know,

279
00:15:06,311 --> 00:15:08,671
some of that is a reflection of the leaders bad

280
00:15:08,671 --> 00:15:10,951
judgment, but some of it is. It's too. Like

281
00:15:10,951 --> 00:15:12,871
sometimes these leaders are just, you know, some

282
00:15:12,871 --> 00:15:15,031
of these people around you are just sycophants.

283
00:15:15,031 --> 00:15:17,151
And maybe that was what Adam was getting at with.

284
00:15:17,151 --> 00:15:19,231
With Alan was like, is this why you're like

285
00:15:19,231 --> 00:15:20,191
following her orders?

286
00:15:20,191 --> 00:15:24,191
>> Sarah : I think that honestly what. What is going on with

287
00:15:24,671 --> 00:15:28,431
Alan is more aligned with what happened to Ms.

288
00:15:28,671 --> 00:15:34,911
Mysaria Messaria. Because Allan also, I think he

289
00:15:34,911 --> 00:15:39,791
blames more of his FA on his father Corliss not

290
00:15:39,791 --> 00:15:43,281
doing the right thing years ago then, not doing

291
00:15:43,281 --> 00:15:45,841
the right thing at this present moment. I think,

292
00:15:45,831 --> 00:15:49,711
he holds that against his father more so than

293
00:15:50,031 --> 00:15:54,231
Rhaenyra. Because in this episode, like we've seen

294
00:15:54,231 --> 00:15:59,541
early on in the season, kind of like a denial of

295
00:15:59,541 --> 00:16:03,381
his father and not wanting to really take on his

296
00:16:03,381 --> 00:16:07,501
name or anything like that. But. But now in this

297
00:16:07,501 --> 00:16:11,860
episode, there is a scene where he meets Driftwood

298
00:16:11,860 --> 00:16:14,501
soldiers and is like, oh, you don't know who I am?

299
00:16:14,581 --> 00:16:17,941
Well, I will tell you who I am. And I think that

300
00:16:17,941 --> 00:16:21,401
he gets that from, spending so much time with

301
00:16:21,401 --> 00:16:24,501
Rhaenyra and. And her inner circle. And I think

302
00:16:24,581 --> 00:16:27,301
that's similar to what happened to Ms. As was

303
00:16:27,301 --> 00:16:31,021
explained in the previous episode. And it's funny

304
00:16:31,021 --> 00:16:35,941
because you see Alan like, hey, I also kind of

305
00:16:35,941 --> 00:16:39,131
like ba. but I don't like her clearly as much as

306
00:16:39,131 --> 00:16:42,571
my brother does because he tells me like, she's

307
00:16:42,571 --> 00:16:45,531
grounded. And I'm like, I don't care. I got things

308
00:16:45,531 --> 00:16:48,371
to do. I, ah, have a duty. I mean, that's another

309
00:16:48,451 --> 00:16:51,371
thing. The reason why Ba liked and took an

310
00:16:51,371 --> 00:16:54,951
interest in him is because he's very much about

311
00:16:55,031 --> 00:16:55,511
duty.

312
00:16:55,911 --> 00:16:57,111
>> Will: Yeah. So there.

313
00:16:57,671 --> 00:17:01,171
>> Sarah : There is something that has. There's a switch that

314
00:17:01,171 --> 00:17:04,371
has been flipped. And this is his duty and this is

315
00:17:04,371 --> 00:17:07,771
his purpose. And he will fulfill it until she

316
00:17:07,771 --> 00:17:10,651
decides to send him off to retirement like she did

317
00:17:10,651 --> 00:17:13,171
with Messaria in this episode. And I thought that

318
00:17:13,171 --> 00:17:14,011
was hilarious.

319
00:17:14,811 --> 00:17:15,531
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

320
00:17:16,011 --> 00:17:19,291
>> Sarah : Like, thank you for the fuck. Here's payment.

321
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:19,990
Goodbye.

322
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:21,110
>> Will: Go back to Essos.

323
00:17:21,270 --> 00:17:26,430
>> Sarah : Yeah, we. They cut this scene after like Damon's

324
00:17:26,430 --> 00:17:29,910
like, oh, Rhaenyra is finally on my side in this

325
00:17:29,910 --> 00:17:32,710
argument, so let's kick Massera out of my house.

326
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:35,469
>> Will: But yeah, but it's one of those things too.

327
00:17:35,469 --> 00:17:37,230
And I think it goes to what we was talking about

328
00:17:37,230 --> 00:17:39,790
earlier with Alicent mourning Messaria too. It's

329
00:17:39,790 --> 00:17:42,230
like, don't. You know, Rhaenyra at the end of the

330
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:45,550
day is about don't. Don't get too high on your

331
00:17:45,550 --> 00:17:48,521
supply, basically with which Messiah did. And I

332
00:17:48,521 --> 00:17:50,081
think, you know, to. I'm glad you brought up the

333
00:17:50,081 --> 00:17:52,051
scene with the, there at Driftmark with Alan. You

334
00:17:52,051 --> 00:17:54,291
know, it was. He wasn't high on his own supply,

335
00:17:54,291 --> 00:17:57,691
but he, He. He did see the, the utility in telling

336
00:17:57,691 --> 00:18:00,371
these men that, you know, I am an heir to Lord of

337
00:18:00,371 --> 00:18:01,411
Driftmark. So.

338
00:18:01,411 --> 00:18:04,211
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, I, I think he was high on this supply.

339
00:18:04,211 --> 00:18:08,211
I, I think though, that what is happening with

340
00:18:08,531 --> 00:18:13,891
Adam and Daria and Allen has more to do with what

341
00:18:13,891 --> 00:18:16,771
Baela says to Rin about how she wields people.

342
00:18:17,301 --> 00:18:20,741
Like useless people. Like it. It has more to do

343
00:18:20,741 --> 00:18:23,541
with that, in my opinion, than anything else.

344
00:18:23,541 --> 00:18:25,381
>> Will: Yeah. And that's what leaders do sometimes. I

345
00:18:25,381 --> 00:18:27,061
mean, that's just, you know, that's the. You know,

346
00:18:27,061 --> 00:18:28,701
as I was saying earlier, sometimes the hard

347
00:18:28,701 --> 00:18:33,170
choices of, leadership is you got, you know, you

348
00:18:33,170 --> 00:18:36,211
are going to utilize your subjects to do sometimes

349
00:18:36,211 --> 00:18:38,611
good things and sometimes, sometimes bad things in

350
00:18:38,611 --> 00:18:40,091
the further rents of your agenda.

351
00:18:40,171 --> 00:18:43,491
>> Sarah : And in this case, but we're also talking about a

352
00:18:43,491 --> 00:18:47,811
Targaryen. So I think that they're beyond just

353
00:18:47,811 --> 00:18:52,211
leadership qualities. There's also the. This is a

354
00:18:52,211 --> 00:18:52,851
civil war.

355
00:18:52,851 --> 00:18:53,331
>> Will: Yeah.

356
00:18:53,411 --> 00:18:58,171
>> Sarah : This is some, like, blood against blood and the

357
00:18:58,171 --> 00:19:02,611
royal family battling it out for the throne. And

358
00:19:03,011 --> 00:19:07,491
so there's a narcissism there. There's also a

359
00:19:07,491 --> 00:19:11,251
belief that, like, there's a separation there,

360
00:19:11,491 --> 00:19:15,751
that I think there's a complexity in the Targaryen

361
00:19:15,751 --> 00:19:20,991
leadership style that goes beyond just the

362
00:19:20,991 --> 00:19:23,151
application of like, normal Human.

363
00:19:23,871 --> 00:19:27,191
>> Will: Yeah. Well, by the end, Rhaenyra was calling

364
00:19:27,191 --> 00:19:30,441
herself the. The print that was prophesied in, you

365
00:19:30,441 --> 00:19:31,401
know, in the lore.

366
00:19:31,401 --> 00:19:37,881
>> Sarah : So she was like, here, I'm gonna. I. Prophecy. So

367
00:19:37,881 --> 00:19:40,681
I'm going to start my own fan fiction about it.

368
00:19:40,681 --> 00:19:42,871
And, let me just tell it to you. And there's going

369
00:19:42,871 --> 00:19:44,311
to be some parts that you're not going to

370
00:19:44,311 --> 00:19:46,431
understand because I'm going to speak those parts

371
00:19:46,511 --> 00:19:48,711
very specifically in a different language. I'm

372
00:19:48,711 --> 00:19:51,151
talking about what you're just saying. The prince

373
00:19:51,151 --> 00:19:55,471
who was promised, like Rhaenyra, the chosen she.

374
00:19:56,911 --> 00:20:02,591
It is. It's such a great moment because the scene

375
00:20:02,671 --> 00:20:07,961
prior and all of this back and forth that she has

376
00:20:07,961 --> 00:20:13,241
had with the sept and with the now facing this

377
00:20:13,321 --> 00:20:18,201
religious entity who, because they are of a

378
00:20:18,441 --> 00:20:21,961
religious faith, believe in a higher power. Right,

379
00:20:22,361 --> 00:20:28,201
right. So you have her confront them and use her

380
00:20:28,201 --> 00:20:31,801
power to basically say, you're not going to anoint

381
00:20:31,801 --> 00:20:33,801
me. All right, you're de. You're dead. Bye. Bye.

382
00:20:33,961 --> 00:20:37,211
Like, I don't care. And then at, Which in return,

383
00:20:38,171 --> 00:20:44,051
she is given, she is cursed. And. And it's. I

384
00:20:44,051 --> 00:20:47,131
think a great way to put it is like. It's this.

385
00:20:47,451 --> 00:20:51,090
This juxtaposition between, like, what. What an

386
00:20:51,090 --> 00:20:54,301
individual believes and then, belief versus

387
00:20:54,301 --> 00:20:57,621
destiny. Because right now she's just forcing

388
00:20:57,941 --> 00:21:02,611
herself. She as, She is forcing herself to be

389
00:21:02,611 --> 00:21:06,571
queen. She is forcing herself to be. To be. Ascend

390
00:21:06,571 --> 00:21:09,691
to the throne and have everything go exactly how

391
00:21:09,691 --> 00:21:12,331
it should have gone if Allison had never said what

392
00:21:12,331 --> 00:21:15,731
she said way back. Granted, I mean, Otto was

393
00:21:15,731 --> 00:21:18,331
involved with that too, but that's. That's neither

394
00:21:18,331 --> 00:21:19,051
here. They're not there.

395
00:21:19,051 --> 00:21:21,331
>> Will: Yeah, there were a few manipulations, but for

396
00:21:21,331 --> 00:21:23,341
sure, but. Yeah, but I mean. Yeah, you're so

397
00:21:23,341 --> 00:21:26,501
right. I mean, whenever. A couple. Whenever she

398
00:21:27,061 --> 00:21:27,541
had that.

399
00:21:27,541 --> 00:21:30,341
That scene there in a step with the septons and,

400
00:21:30,701 --> 00:21:32,741
you know, I couldn't help but think of Ormond and.

401
00:21:32,741 --> 00:21:36,221
And. And the. The whole religious debate that, you

402
00:21:36,221 --> 00:21:38,381
know, things that he was telling Darren about the

403
00:21:38,541 --> 00:21:41,301
perversion of the dragons and. And I was seeing

404
00:21:41,301 --> 00:21:42,861
that kind of. You know, we were seeing that play

405
00:21:42,861 --> 00:21:46,021
out there with. With Rhaenyra and. And the high

406
00:21:46,021 --> 00:21:49,861
priest of the Septon, and. And so it was like, you

407
00:21:49,861 --> 00:21:53,061
know, he may have a point here. The perverseness

408
00:21:53,061 --> 00:21:56,381
or the, you know, dark sides of. Of. Of. Of this

409
00:21:56,381 --> 00:21:57,581
magical dragon power.

410
00:21:57,821 --> 00:22:02,441
>> Sarah : Well, it's interesting because in history, like

411
00:22:02,681 --> 00:22:07,401
the. The biggest wars that. Or battles are always

412
00:22:07,481 --> 00:22:12,681
like the holy wars, right? Yeah. Yeah. So. So they

413
00:22:12,681 --> 00:22:16,401
managed to take in this season alone. They've

414
00:22:16,401 --> 00:22:18,281
Managed to take this civil war.

415
00:22:18,601 --> 00:22:19,161
>> Will: Yep.

416
00:22:19,321 --> 00:22:23,761
>> Sarah : And expand it into a holy war between whether it

417
00:22:23,761 --> 00:22:27,041
be the Sept. Or as you brought up Ormond, which,

418
00:22:27,121 --> 00:22:31,441
which that does take us to Team Tumbleton, which,

419
00:22:31,921 --> 00:22:36,001
you know, for all of his I Hightowers are so much

420
00:22:36,001 --> 00:22:39,481
more holier. The whole time I was just like, get

421
00:22:39,481 --> 00:22:40,801
those kids out.

422
00:22:41,041 --> 00:22:42,241
>> Will: Oh God. Yeah.

423
00:22:42,241 --> 00:22:44,161
>> Sarah : Thank you. At all. I don't like this.

424
00:22:44,961 --> 00:22:48,321
>> Will: Yeah, that just like proved again, just double

425
00:22:48,321 --> 00:22:52,031
down how. Why, how despicable Orman really is. I

426
00:22:52,031 --> 00:22:54,031
mean we've talked about it all season as far as

427
00:22:54,031 --> 00:22:57,391
this treatment of Darren and even with Wayne. But

428
00:22:57,391 --> 00:22:59,381
yeah, I mean it's just just another like, you

429
00:22:59,381 --> 00:23:01,181
know, tick mark as far as like, this guy's a

430
00:23:01,181 --> 00:23:01,661
bastard.

431
00:23:01,661 --> 00:23:07,341
>> Sarah : Yeah. It just, it. I like how we, I think we both

432
00:23:07,421 --> 00:23:11,181
like Darren and Gwain's even grown on us a bit,

433
00:23:11,661 --> 00:23:14,541
but they still managed to be like, yeah, but

434
00:23:14,541 --> 00:23:18,061
Ormond's an asshole. And there's, there's. It's

435
00:23:18,061 --> 00:23:20,981
very clear in this episode that they are on two

436
00:23:20,981 --> 00:23:23,141
teams which we've known for a while and they've

437
00:23:23,141 --> 00:23:26,761
never on the same page because Armin never clued

438
00:23:26,761 --> 00:23:31,441
them in about Ul. And so in return and Gwain try

439
00:23:31,441 --> 00:23:36,201
to use Corliss to parlay some peace. And we have,

440
00:23:36,201 --> 00:23:38,041
and we have that whole scene.

441
00:23:38,041 --> 00:23:42,041
But yeah, my question to you because a lot of

442
00:23:42,201 --> 00:23:46,841
this, these parts in, in Tumbleton, whether it be

443
00:23:46,841 --> 00:23:50,911
on Damon's side or Ormond side, featured the heavy

444
00:23:50,911 --> 00:23:54,191
question of where is Ulf? Where did you think he

445
00:23:54,191 --> 00:23:55,791
was during that time?

446
00:23:55,871 --> 00:23:58,391
>> Will: He pretty. You know, I thought he was somewhere

447
00:23:58,391 --> 00:24:00,871
drunk. I didn't, you know, whenever, earlier, you

448
00:24:00,871 --> 00:24:04,271
know, we saw him just having, having his time with

449
00:24:04,271 --> 00:24:08,551
the. In, in the town, just drinking away. So I

450
00:24:08,551 --> 00:24:12,031
think, you know, so it was well, well executed how

451
00:24:12,271 --> 00:24:15,101
both Damon and Ormond were like, you know, each

452
00:24:15,101 --> 00:24:17,661
one of them in their military strategy was like

453
00:24:17,661 --> 00:24:20,021
Ulf was going to be our ace in the hole. Yeah,

454
00:24:20,341 --> 00:24:23,101
yeah. And, and, and, and, and, and then at the end

455
00:24:23,101 --> 00:24:26,021
of the day he was for both sides. Yeah.

456
00:24:26,341 --> 00:24:31,141
>> Sarah : And, and to that point it was also a nice touch

457
00:24:31,701 --> 00:24:35,420
because the moment, the moment Ormond starts to

458
00:24:35,420 --> 00:24:38,541
slap him and treats him, your mind goes straight

459
00:24:38,541 --> 00:24:40,501
back to that moment with Damon.

460
00:24:40,741 --> 00:24:41,621
>> Will: Yep. Yeah.

461
00:24:41,621 --> 00:24:44,101
>> Sarah : And, and you're just like, you have that in the

462
00:24:44,101 --> 00:24:46,021
back of your mind, you're like, well, it's not

463
00:24:46,021 --> 00:24:46,821
gonna like this.

464
00:24:46,981 --> 00:24:49,701
>> Will: I don't like this. Yeah. Yeah. And it also just,

465
00:24:49,861 --> 00:24:53,561
you know, off the belt we've touched on tonight

466
00:24:53,561 --> 00:24:55,521
and throughout the season just how the, the high

467
00:24:55,521 --> 00:24:58,321
class preach the commoners and m. Yeah.

468
00:24:58,401 --> 00:25:00,921
>> Sarah : And and it also goes back to what you were saying

469
00:25:00,921 --> 00:25:04,801
before with Rhaenyra and this idea. Like she uses

470
00:25:04,801 --> 00:25:07,841
people. Ormond is using people left and right. He

471
00:25:07,841 --> 00:25:12,441
uses children. Like. And so I don't view it as

472
00:25:12,441 --> 00:25:16,881
like a flaw for some of the choices that Rhaenyra

473
00:25:16,881 --> 00:25:20,961
has made as a, as a leader or as a person of

474
00:25:20,961 --> 00:25:24,361
power, because all of them are doing it. The

475
00:25:24,361 --> 00:25:27,081
difference between Ormond and her is like vagina

476
00:25:27,081 --> 00:25:27,841
and penis.

477
00:25:27,921 --> 00:25:29,841
>> Will: So basically. Yeah, yeah.

478
00:25:30,961 --> 00:25:34,241
>> Sarah : And there's a smell aversion which I also

479
00:25:34,321 --> 00:25:38,481
appreciated the choking down when he finds all but

480
00:25:38,481 --> 00:25:38,881
man.

481
00:25:39,281 --> 00:25:42,211
So, so this brings me to, another question I have

482
00:25:42,211 --> 00:25:45,931
for you, Will, about Ormond. How. How. How did you

483
00:25:45,931 --> 00:25:50,221
like the. The ultimate fuck you to Ormond send

484
00:25:50,221 --> 00:25:50,501
off?

485
00:25:50,501 --> 00:25:52,901
>> Will: There are two ultimate sentences in both of them.

486
00:25:52,901 --> 00:25:56,141
One, I just, you know, Rodrick was the, the low

487
00:25:56,141 --> 00:26:00,221
key MVP of this episode. He just, you know, wanted

488
00:26:00,221 --> 00:26:02,581
to like, you know, break down the fence. And even

489
00:26:02,581 --> 00:26:04,900
after the, after the gates were down, he was still

490
00:26:04,900 --> 00:26:07,081
like, let's go kill some people. But getting back

491
00:26:07,081 --> 00:26:09,721
to your question, the both moments were just so,

492
00:26:10,201 --> 00:26:13,121
so well earned. Roderick, whenever he does, you

493
00:26:13,121 --> 00:26:17,101
know, give Ormond the knife up, the knife up is

494
00:26:17,101 --> 00:26:20,341
bum was just so, like. It was so cathartic from

495
00:26:20,341 --> 00:26:22,621
like, especially after, after he put the kids at

496
00:26:22,621 --> 00:26:24,381
the risk. I'm like, you know, don't, you know,

497
00:26:24,381 --> 00:26:26,541
don't put kids and dogs at risk. I mean that's

498
00:26:26,541 --> 00:26:30,581
just. No, no, don't do that. But when all like saw

499
00:26:30,581 --> 00:26:33,461
them on the gate there on the sand of the tower

500
00:26:33,461 --> 00:26:36,221
and swooped around and just like, you know, just

501
00:26:36,221 --> 00:26:39,381
gave melt, you know, just another you. Especially

502
00:26:39,621 --> 00:26:42,451
to your point about how, you know, Damon, treated

503
00:26:42,451 --> 00:26:46,211
him earlier, it was just like. Yeah, yeah, it was

504
00:26:46,211 --> 00:26:49,091
well, well, well deserved there. But you know,

505
00:26:49,171 --> 00:26:51,611
thinking, thinking to that point. I know we didn't

506
00:26:51,611 --> 00:26:53,891
talk about it much earlier on with Rhaenyra and

507
00:26:53,891 --> 00:26:57,051
Damon and also just how. How Rhaenyra gave daemon

508
00:26:57,051 --> 00:27:00,171
orders not to, you know, try not to destroy the

509
00:27:00,171 --> 00:27:05,571
town. And because of Ulf being just so reckless,

510
00:27:06,011 --> 00:27:09,781
you know, clearly the blowback on all of this is

511
00:27:09,781 --> 00:27:12,101
going to go back on Rhaenyra. It's not going to be

512
00:27:12,101 --> 00:27:15,611
because, you know, the, the fact that Mormon that

513
00:27:15,611 --> 00:27:19,211
all flight was the Judas goat who, who betrayed

514
00:27:19,211 --> 00:27:22,651
Team Black first and then just because it's

515
00:27:22,651 --> 00:27:24,571
gotten, you know, he got his feelings hurt and

516
00:27:24,571 --> 00:27:26,971
when Orman slapped him, it's still gonna, they're

517
00:27:26,971 --> 00:27:29,091
gonna. It's gonna get into this whole narrative

518
00:27:29,091 --> 00:27:32,251
that it was Rhaenyra's fault. Yeah. So, you know,

519
00:27:32,251 --> 00:27:34,211
so I mean this obvious thing there. But I just

520
00:27:34,211 --> 00:27:36,531
felt like, wanted to share that because it just

521
00:27:36,531 --> 00:27:40,171
gets into the, you know, some of the sexism and

522
00:27:41,001 --> 00:27:43,721
things that, you know, that we've seen that has

523
00:27:43,721 --> 00:27:46,041
been pervasive throughout, from, from day one

524
00:27:46,041 --> 00:27:48,211
going back to Rhaenys not being able to take the

525
00:27:48,211 --> 00:27:48,531
throne.

526
00:27:48,771 --> 00:27:49,251
>> Sarah : Yeah.

527
00:27:49,651 --> 00:27:52,611
>> Will: It even Corliss's comment in this episode where

528
00:27:52,771 --> 00:27:55,291
you know, there's going to be some, some of the

529
00:27:55,291 --> 00:27:58,331
houses that will never respect a woman on, on the,

530
00:27:58,331 --> 00:28:01,161
on the throne. So you know, so, you know, since we

531
00:28:01,161 --> 00:28:03,881
know that the history has been told by unreliable

532
00:28:03,881 --> 00:28:06,241
narrators, then, you know, of course Rhaenyra is

533
00:28:06,241 --> 00:28:07,441
going to get the blame for all of this.

534
00:28:07,441 --> 00:28:12,341
>> Sarah : Yeah, I found it to be interesting. I felt a

535
00:28:12,341 --> 00:28:15,341
little, even though I hate him as a character, Sir

536
00:28:15,341 --> 00:28:19,401
Kristian. So I remember the battle at Rook's Rest,

537
00:28:20,441 --> 00:28:23,481
his shell shocked moment. And they again did it

538
00:28:23,561 --> 00:28:27,041
very visually and very similarly like what was

539
00:28:27,041 --> 00:28:31,481
happening with Daemon, he or in Tumbledon. It's

540
00:28:31,481 --> 00:28:33,721
just that you were seeing it from a Targaryen. Now

541
00:28:34,371 --> 00:28:36,731
I will admit as somebody who's seen all of Game of

542
00:28:36,731 --> 00:28:40,011
Thrones, that it also took me back to some

543
00:28:40,011 --> 00:28:42,651
instances with a character by the name of Jon

544
00:28:42,651 --> 00:28:48,771
Snow. And so, so we've seen this play out but I, I

545
00:28:48,771 --> 00:28:52,051
liked seeing it go through Daemon because we

546
00:28:52,051 --> 00:28:54,891
already previously in this show got it with Sir

547
00:28:54,891 --> 00:28:59,331
Kristian from a person who is of non Targaryen

548
00:28:59,331 --> 00:28:59,931
descent.

549
00:28:59,931 --> 00:29:00,281
>> Will: Yeah.

550
00:29:00,751 --> 00:29:05,951
>> Sarah : And, and so now to see it like his perspective of

551
00:29:05,951 --> 00:29:10,231
getting shell shock after a, ah, dragon attacks a

552
00:29:10,231 --> 00:29:13,871
town like as being a dragon Rider, I thought that

553
00:29:13,871 --> 00:29:19,671
was very interesting. I liked Dust and the Ash and

554
00:29:19,671 --> 00:29:23,991
how it also the, the innocence that they showed. I

555
00:29:23,991 --> 00:29:27,391
mean they m. To your point about like children

556
00:29:27,391 --> 00:29:29,571
don't hurt children don't hurt animals. Well, we

557
00:29:29,571 --> 00:29:33,251
see a horse, we see children and their mothers all

558
00:29:33,251 --> 00:29:37,291
trying to scurry for, for shelter and this

559
00:29:37,291 --> 00:29:40,091
distraught man. And it's very important to see

560
00:29:40,091 --> 00:29:42,371
mothers because we all know if you're a Targaryen

561
00:29:42,371 --> 00:29:43,611
son, you got mommy issues.

562
00:29:43,771 --> 00:29:44,091
>> Will: So.

563
00:29:44,091 --> 00:29:49,051
>> Sarah : Yeah. So I am very curious to, for next season,

564
00:29:49,531 --> 00:29:53,451
the final season of this show, to see that impact

565
00:29:53,771 --> 00:29:58,491
on him as a character. Besides that, the other

566
00:29:58,651 --> 00:30:02,771
thing I thought was very nice of them to do was be

567
00:30:02,771 --> 00:30:05,571
like, okay, head count everybody. We know Ormin's

568
00:30:05,571 --> 00:30:09,811
dead. Wayne is alive. But yeah, there, there.

569
00:30:09,811 --> 00:30:12,731
Damon is good. But where's Darren? Anybody got

570
00:30:12,731 --> 00:30:13,691
eyes on Darren?

571
00:30:13,691 --> 00:30:15,371
>> Will: No eyes on Darren. We know what happened to

572
00:30:15,371 --> 00:30:15,771
Darren.

573
00:30:17,611 --> 00:30:19,531
But again it also with you, I mean, you know,

574
00:30:19,531 --> 00:30:21,811
there was a lot of speculation that was, you know,

575
00:30:21,811 --> 00:30:25,291
Was Hugh going to betray Team Black and the battle

576
00:30:25,291 --> 00:30:27,031
of Tumbleton? I know there's apparent. There's two

577
00:30:27,031 --> 00:30:29,231
battles at Tumbledon, but. But he didn't betray

578
00:30:29,231 --> 00:30:31,191
the folks this time. He just didn't follow orders,

579
00:30:31,191 --> 00:30:32,951
which I don't, I don't count that as a betrayal.

580
00:30:32,951 --> 00:30:36,351
>> Sarah : So he put his family first, which exactly what the

581
00:30:36,351 --> 00:30:38,991
Targaryens are doing. Yeah, they're putting their

582
00:30:38,991 --> 00:30:42,351
family first. Like so it's. I mean that's how we

583
00:30:42,351 --> 00:30:47,111
got here. A son for son. So an eye for ah, for a

584
00:30:47,111 --> 00:30:49,111
hand or whatever. So there.

585
00:30:49,111 --> 00:30:51,791
>> Will: Yeah, I assume. Yeah, assume. Oscar Tolly still

586
00:30:51,791 --> 00:30:53,671
with this. Because Oscar had, He's had some good.

587
00:30:53,831 --> 00:30:55,751
He's had some good moments this season as well.

588
00:30:55,981 --> 00:30:58,421
>> Sarah : Oh yeah, you gotta keep that little kid around. I

589
00:30:58,421 --> 00:31:01,021
mean he's gotta go out. He's been featured enough

590
00:31:01,021 --> 00:31:04,071
to get like a, Sir Christian moment. I would say

591
00:31:04,791 --> 00:31:08,271
so. Or Roderick moment. If you, if you're gonna go

592
00:31:08,271 --> 00:31:09,351
out, you gotta go out.

593
00:31:09,511 --> 00:31:09,871
>> Will: Yeah.

594
00:31:09,871 --> 00:31:13,231
>> Sarah : You gotta get lines to go out in a featured way,

595
00:31:13,231 --> 00:31:15,951
not just offhander. So.

596
00:31:15,951 --> 00:31:17,991
>> Will: Yeah, that was just so awesome with the way

597
00:31:17,991 --> 00:31:20,031
Roderick went out. You know, he took out Ormond

598
00:31:20,031 --> 00:31:21,791
and then he gets that he gets taken out by

599
00:31:21,791 --> 00:31:24,391
dragonfire. So for him that was just like. For

600
00:31:24,471 --> 00:31:26,471
someone from the north, you know, that was a

601
00:31:26,631 --> 00:31:28,211
Stark. That the way to go.

602
00:31:29,491 --> 00:31:33,731
>> Sarah : I. I think it was more just like I'm. He's already

603
00:31:33,731 --> 00:31:35,331
committed to die in that battle.

604
00:31:35,331 --> 00:31:35,611
>> Will: Yeah.

605
00:31:35,611 --> 00:31:40,051
>> Sarah : He was dry. Dragon fire aside. He does not. He

606
00:31:40,291 --> 00:31:42,931
wanted to die. Like at one point he's like, gates

607
00:31:42,931 --> 00:31:44,211
open and we're still alive.

608
00:31:44,451 --> 00:31:44,971
>> Will: Yeah.

609
00:31:44,971 --> 00:31:45,571
>> Sarah : It's a.

610
00:31:47,651 --> 00:31:50,381
>> Will: Was. Yeah. Speaking, of gates, I really, I love

611
00:31:50,381 --> 00:31:52,861
that moment where crack, crack, like boot, boot

612
00:31:53,111 --> 00:31:55,031
destroyed the gates, but burst through the gates

613
00:31:55,031 --> 00:31:57,991
and like this set the whole thing on, you know, on

614
00:31:57,991 --> 00:31:59,791
fire there. That was just a great moment.

615
00:31:59,791 --> 00:32:02,471
I was just to talk real quick about production

616
00:32:02,471 --> 00:32:04,711
things. I did watch the, the behind the scenes

617
00:32:04,711 --> 00:32:07,271
video with them showing how they filmed that scene

618
00:32:07,351 --> 00:32:10,351
and, and just. It was, you know, it was, it was a

619
00:32:10,351 --> 00:32:12,671
practice. It was true practical effect. Obviously

620
00:32:12,671 --> 00:32:15,391
they, you know, cg, the dragon end, but the whole

621
00:32:15,391 --> 00:32:17,751
other. The rest of it was. Was a full practical

622
00:32:17,751 --> 00:32:19,591
effect which I thought worked really, really well.

623
00:32:19,591 --> 00:32:23,901
>> Sarah : Yeah. But they. This season, the practical

624
00:32:23,901 --> 00:32:27,981
effects, whatever CGI that they knowingly have

625
00:32:27,981 --> 00:32:32,021
used, they. It's. It's a very well produced season

626
00:32:32,021 --> 00:32:33,341
of television as well.

627
00:32:33,341 --> 00:32:35,171
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. and also. Yeah.

628
00:32:35,171 --> 00:32:37,491
And to that point too, just, you know, as you were

629
00:32:37,491 --> 00:32:39,931
describing, like the ruins and everything, it

630
00:32:39,931 --> 00:32:42,411
really did one of the things too about the fight

631
00:32:42,411 --> 00:32:46,251
was just. Just a medieval nature of siege warfare.

632
00:32:46,251 --> 00:32:49,041
And. And. And, you know, we talked about the

633
00:32:49,041 --> 00:32:51,481
strategies and stuff. And, you know, and, you

634
00:32:51,481 --> 00:32:53,361
know, Damon doing that. You know, we got to see

635
00:32:53,361 --> 00:32:56,841
Damon the tactician after being Damon the sleep

636
00:32:57,001 --> 00:32:59,121
all season two. Now we, you know, we got to see

637
00:32:59,121 --> 00:33:01,641
Damon in his bag as far as just being able to, you

638
00:33:01,641 --> 00:33:03,481
know, the military strategies and stuff.

639
00:33:03,561 --> 00:33:07,281
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. It felt very Lord of the Rings too.

640
00:33:07,281 --> 00:33:07,681
>> Will: Yeah.

641
00:33:07,681 --> 00:33:10,241
>> Sarah : So I want to go to my favorite scene in the

642
00:33:10,241 --> 00:33:12,841
episode. And that, of course, is Aegon's scene.

643
00:33:13,321 --> 00:33:13,881
>> Will: Yeah.

644
00:33:15,191 --> 00:33:19,431
>> Sarah : I laughed so freaking hard. I laughed. I just.

645
00:33:19,511 --> 00:33:23,751
I'm. I'm like this kid, this actor is just

646
00:33:23,831 --> 00:33:29,881
transcending. and I. Maybe it's because we didn't

647
00:33:29,881 --> 00:33:32,841
get like. Like I said at the beginning, no

648
00:33:32,841 --> 00:33:36,721
character was under or overused. And we just got

649
00:33:36,721 --> 00:33:38,041
enough of Aegon.

650
00:33:38,441 --> 00:33:38,881
>> Will: Yeah.

651
00:33:38,881 --> 00:33:43,591
>> Sarah : But for him to be like. Like, I'm alive.

652
00:33:44,551 --> 00:33:45,991
>> Will: I'm alive, imbecile.

653
00:33:46,631 --> 00:33:50,151
>> Sarah : I was like, the way he says, I am live. I burst

654
00:33:50,151 --> 00:33:54,671
out loud. Immediately he smacks him. and then he

655
00:33:54,671 --> 00:33:59,711
gets so mad because he's supposed to enjoy this.

656
00:33:59,711 --> 00:34:00,111
>> Will: Like.

657
00:34:00,351 --> 00:34:04,911
>> Sarah : Like, it was a funny thing of watching this

658
00:34:05,071 --> 00:34:09,421
performance in the scene because he goes from

659
00:34:09,581 --> 00:34:14,861
immediately the. The comedy comedian slash, like,

660
00:34:15,181 --> 00:34:19,581
life is miserable. I have nothing to. Suddenly

661
00:34:19,901 --> 00:34:22,381
it's just like, oh, no, no. He's still the evil

662
00:34:22,381 --> 00:34:26,661
little bastard that we. We've seen before. So it's

663
00:34:26,661 --> 00:34:30,661
like these. These two sides of him. And. But I

664
00:34:30,661 --> 00:34:33,981
also. I mean, I feel like I was right last week.

665
00:34:33,981 --> 00:34:38,891
Aemond totally knew that was poison. Yeah, totally

666
00:34:38,891 --> 00:34:42,731
did. Because his guilt of his brother. And now

667
00:34:42,731 --> 00:34:48,491
it's to the point where Aegon recognizes it. And

668
00:34:48,491 --> 00:34:52,131
Aegon is now wielding that and holding it against

669
00:34:52,131 --> 00:34:54,891
him to be like, yeah, that's great that you have a

670
00:34:54,891 --> 00:34:57,851
betrothed here to Alice, but you're coming with me

671
00:34:57,851 --> 00:35:00,531
because I need your dragon. And we're gonna go

672
00:35:00,531 --> 00:35:04,131
some. Some up. Okay. So we gotta get back what's

673
00:35:04,131 --> 00:35:04,571
mine.

674
00:35:05,341 --> 00:35:05,741
>> Will: Yeah.

675
00:35:06,461 --> 00:35:10,381
>> Sarah : And we gotta do the thing. So you're gonna be my

676
00:35:10,381 --> 00:35:11,021
dragon.

677
00:35:11,741 --> 00:35:13,261
>> Will: Yep. Three.

678
00:35:15,261 --> 00:35:15,661
>> Sarah : So.

679
00:35:15,901 --> 00:35:18,141
>> Will: And then maybe I'll forgive you.

680
00:35:18,301 --> 00:35:23,141
>> Sarah : Yeah. And then maybe. Maybe you just. You're just

681
00:35:23,141 --> 00:35:27,301
like, yeah, the. The Hightower bros. That they're

682
00:35:27,301 --> 00:35:31,181
growing. I also, I. There's a reason why Darren is

683
00:35:31,181 --> 00:35:34,221
like, left. Whereabouts unknown. And it's mainly

684
00:35:34,221 --> 00:35:37,141
because this scene when they bring up. When he

685
00:35:37,141 --> 00:35:40,981
brings up Darren, they don't know their brother at

686
00:35:40,981 --> 00:35:44,901
all. And so it is this weird thing they bring up

687
00:35:44,901 --> 00:35:48,861
Darren. You know, they're related. But you're also

688
00:35:48,861 --> 00:35:52,021
just like, no, but Darren didn't grow up with you

689
00:35:52,021 --> 00:35:55,821
guys, right? Like, how much time was Darren

690
00:35:55,821 --> 00:36:00,211
actually around for. For any sort of relationship

691
00:36:00,211 --> 00:36:03,091
to develop there? I mean, Allison acts like Darren

692
00:36:03,091 --> 00:36:07,411
is a complete stranger to her. So now, since I'm

693
00:36:07,411 --> 00:36:11,731
denied my Alice and Helena scene, I can't wait to

694
00:36:11,731 --> 00:36:14,011
get the three Hightower bros together.

695
00:36:14,571 --> 00:36:17,091
>> Will: Yeah, the three. Yeah, that. Yeah. I couldn't help

696
00:36:17,091 --> 00:36:20,171
but think, too, whenever I saw that moment with,

697
00:36:20,281 --> 00:36:22,771
With Aegon and Aemon, and they were talking about

698
00:36:22,771 --> 00:36:25,411
Darren thinking about Egg and, you know, years

699
00:36:25,411 --> 00:36:27,571
down the line now with, like, with his brother,

700
00:36:27,571 --> 00:36:31,021
his Targaryen brothers. and this how. Just the.

701
00:36:31,021 --> 00:36:33,621
The. The. The dynamics with them because, you

702
00:36:33,621 --> 00:36:35,541
know, it was a very similar thing, too, where.

703
00:36:35,701 --> 00:36:38,821
Yeah, there. That dynamic was just weird and odd

704
00:36:38,821 --> 00:36:41,301
with, like, not knowing them or, you know, you had

705
00:36:41,301 --> 00:36:43,941
the one Targaryen brother. Was it Darren? The

706
00:36:43,941 --> 00:36:45,061
older 1 in I17.

707
00:36:45,621 --> 00:36:48,261
>> Sarah : There's four, and we only met three of the four.

708
00:36:48,661 --> 00:36:50,941
But, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, I know what you're

709
00:36:50,941 --> 00:36:51,701
talking about.

710
00:36:51,861 --> 00:36:56,221
And that's why I am so grateful to have started

711
00:36:56,221 --> 00:36:59,241
this year with a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms,

712
00:36:59,401 --> 00:37:05,641
because that show, Spoiler alert. Is a lot about

713
00:37:05,641 --> 00:37:09,401
the Targaryens, and even though it's years removed

714
00:37:09,881 --> 00:37:12,841
and there ain't no dragons at that point in time,

715
00:37:13,241 --> 00:37:16,441
and we're talking House of the Dragon, you still

716
00:37:17,321 --> 00:37:21,801
get this family contextualized. And. And it all

717
00:37:21,801 --> 00:37:25,241
goes back to this idea. Dragon or no dragon, in

718
00:37:25,241 --> 00:37:27,961
both of these shows, at both of these points in

719
00:37:27,961 --> 00:37:33,021
Westeros history, they have power. So they are the

720
00:37:33,021 --> 00:37:38,741
royal family. And because of the family who's not

721
00:37:38,741 --> 00:37:41,741
only royal, but apparently loves to have sex and

722
00:37:41,741 --> 00:37:45,420
loves to just spawn away and create all sorts of

723
00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:50,261
different lines, there's a lot of competition for

724
00:37:50,261 --> 00:37:55,421
the crown. So they. Maybe if they just have stop

725
00:37:55,421 --> 00:37:57,941
having sex, maybe. Maybe that would help the

726
00:37:57,941 --> 00:38:01,141
Targaryens a bit or. Or go off to a different

727
00:38:01,521 --> 00:38:04,721
line. I don't know. But. Well, between the incest,

728
00:38:04,721 --> 00:38:09,931
I mean, the. In the internal breeding, like, Like

729
00:38:09,931 --> 00:38:12,571
there's gonna be internal civil war for sure.

730
00:38:12,651 --> 00:38:15,531
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. But I know we. You know, we did learn.

731
00:38:15,531 --> 00:38:18,251
Speaking of the whole Ken. Ken Slayer and stuff,

732
00:38:18,251 --> 00:38:19,851
and, you know, we did get a little bit more detail

733
00:38:19,851 --> 00:38:23,651
about. About Alice and that dynamic there. But,

734
00:38:23,651 --> 00:38:25,971
you know, as far as why she was trying to make the

735
00:38:25,971 --> 00:38:28,391
bargain with Damon earlier, now, of course, you

736
00:38:28,391 --> 00:38:30,271
know, she did. Was able to get that, you know,

737
00:38:30,271 --> 00:38:32,631
Bethroed, too. And. But, yeah, you know, so we got

738
00:38:32,631 --> 00:38:34,831
a little bit more backstory with her and. And.

739
00:38:34,831 --> 00:38:37,591
But, yeah, I agree. It's too bad we didn't get the

740
00:38:37,591 --> 00:38:40,231
scene between her and her and Helena, but we did

741
00:38:40,231 --> 00:38:42,830
get one thing that Helena left for. For Rhaenyra

742
00:38:42,830 --> 00:38:44,991
after she jumped out of the, after she jumped out

743
00:38:44,991 --> 00:38:47,271
of the window with that tap. You know, Rhaenyra of

744
00:38:47,271 --> 00:38:49,951
course coming back from her. Her grand speech to

745
00:38:49,951 --> 00:38:53,031
everyone and, and seeing, seeing the images there

746
00:38:53,031 --> 00:38:55,591
and you know, little foreshadowing I would have to

747
00:38:55,591 --> 00:38:58,731
say as far as where. Where we're potentially the

748
00:38:58,731 --> 00:39:01,491
fourth and final season. But book readers don't

749
00:39:01,491 --> 00:39:04,371
share, don't share. Don't tell us we want to find

750
00:39:04,371 --> 00:39:06,091
out on our own. But there's definitely some things

751
00:39:06,091 --> 00:39:08,971
there that definitely the dreamer dreamer left for

752
00:39:08,971 --> 00:39:09,611
an era.

753
00:39:09,611 --> 00:39:11,611
>> Sarah : Yeah. Well, anything else?

754
00:39:12,331 --> 00:39:14,851
>> Will: No, no. I mean I just sucked. Hey, I'm glad that

755
00:39:14,851 --> 00:39:16,771
we have a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms coming up

756
00:39:16,771 --> 00:39:19,851
next year season two to. So we don't have a two

757
00:39:19,851 --> 00:39:23,331
year wait before for another show in this, in this

758
00:39:23,331 --> 00:39:27,011
universe because it's, it's really. Yeah this like

759
00:39:27,011 --> 00:39:28,771
you said at the very beginning, this season has

760
00:39:28,771 --> 00:39:32,431
just been consist. Every episode has been great. I

761
00:39:32,431 --> 00:39:35,481
mean good. Well yeah, good to great. I mean I, I

762
00:39:35,431 --> 00:39:37,191
think I didn't have. I didn't feel like there was

763
00:39:37,191 --> 00:39:40,631
a stinker in there at all this year. Which is to

764
00:39:40,631 --> 00:39:42,791
your point. It's great whenever you have a season

765
00:39:42,791 --> 00:39:44,631
of television where you can just look at eight to

766
00:39:44,631 --> 00:39:46,991
10 episodes and be like, yeah, I, you know,

767
00:39:46,991 --> 00:39:49,191
enjoyed each and every one of these episodes and

768
00:39:49,191 --> 00:39:50,911
now it's going to be like, I mean I know we got

769
00:39:50,911 --> 00:39:53,791
you know, lanterns coming up next, you know, as

770
00:39:53,791 --> 00:39:56,111
far as Sunday night. But I've just enjoyed the

771
00:39:56,111 --> 00:39:58,861
just just being in this universe and talking about

772
00:39:58,861 --> 00:40:01,581
these show the show with you the last eight weeks

773
00:40:01,581 --> 00:40:03,301
and. Yeah. And then we'll just have to wait to

774
00:40:03,301 --> 00:40:06,061
2028 for the, for the finale on this. But yeah, it

775
00:40:06,061 --> 00:40:06,661
was a great season.

776
00:40:06,661 --> 00:40:10,861
>> Sarah : Yep. I completely agree and like you said, so glad

777
00:40:10,861 --> 00:40:13,701
a Knight of the Seven Kingdoms like can quench the

778
00:40:13,701 --> 00:40:16,891
appetite next year. And it's just been fun so far

779
00:40:16,891 --> 00:40:19,091
to not just talk about these shows but just to

780
00:40:19,091 --> 00:40:21,531
overall talk about the target family because my

781
00:40:21,531 --> 00:40:24,341
God are complicated.

782
00:40:24,741 --> 00:40:25,901
>> Will: Yeah, they're messy.

783
00:40:25,901 --> 00:40:28,941
>> Sarah : They're messy. But you know what, like I said at

784
00:40:28,941 --> 00:40:31,301
the beginning of the show, the Hightower family

785
00:40:31,301 --> 00:40:34,901
got a lot of time. They're just as messy.

786
00:40:34,901 --> 00:40:36,981
>> Will: They're just as messy. There's plenty of messy in

787
00:40:36,981 --> 00:40:38,261
Westeros. I mean it's not.

788
00:40:38,261 --> 00:40:40,341
>> Sarah : It's are clean.

789
00:40:40,341 --> 00:40:41,381
>> Will: None. None.

790
00:40:41,381 --> 00:40:45,901
>> Sarah : So and we will be back next week on Tuesday to do

791
00:40:45,901 --> 00:40:50,261
a special recording of X Men 97 and to wrap up

792
00:40:50,341 --> 00:40:53,861
season two. So hopefully you check us out for

793
00:40:53,861 --> 00:40:56,581
that. On that note, Will, why don't you tell our

794
00:40:56,581 --> 00:40:57,821
listeners where they can find you?

795
00:40:57,821 --> 00:40:59,961
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on all the socials at, Will

796
00:40:59,961 --> 00:41:02,461
and Polk. W I L L M P O L. Okay.

797
00:41:02,541 --> 00:41:04,580
>> Sarah : And you can find me there too, at S.J. belmont. S

798
00:41:04,580 --> 00:41:08,461
J B E S J B E L M O N T. Please follow Crew on X,

799
00:41:08,461 --> 00:41:10,341
formerly known as Twitter at Scene A Nerd on

800
00:41:10,341 --> 00:41:12,301
bluesky. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on

801
00:41:12,301 --> 00:41:15,461
Instagram and threads at SceneNard and visit our

802
00:41:15,461 --> 00:41:19,071
website, www.scenanerdpodcast.com. but most

803
00:41:19,071 --> 00:41:21,111
importantly, write, follow and comment on Apple

804
00:41:21,111 --> 00:41:23,231
Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your

805
00:41:23,231 --> 00:41:25,191
podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.