Vision Quest Episodes 1 & 2 Review: Does Watching Vision's Memories Make Him Human?

0:00 >> Will: Foreigners. >> Sarah : This is Scene and Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Paul. How are you doing tonight, Will? >> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing this evening? >> Sarah : I'm doing fine. We are closing out October. >> Will: Yes, we are closing out October, and we've got a new show to talk about tonight. >> Sarah : Yeah, we have Vision Quest, that which you've been looking forward to. >> Will: Yeah, actually, I have been. And I, you know, it's one of those shows that I'm, very excited about it because one, it was the showrunner for Star Trek Picard Season three. Terry Matalis is the showrunner, for Provision Quest. And then also, another, like years ago when 12 Monkeys was on.

0:49 Didn't you write some blog posts reviewing that show here for the podcast when was on it? I know it was a show that, like some of our predecessors, and I think you were a part of that group as well cover 12 monkeys back in the day. I was like, yeah, maybe. >> Sarah : I don't. Yeah, I know it's an old show, but I. I guess here's what I will say. I think you're right. It was covered at one point in time. I don't think I finished the series and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Will: But we're not here to talk 12 Monkeys. We're definitely here to talk Vision Quest, but just for folks who. Who may have been fans of both of those shows. Of course, that was one for Picard, obviously, but. And what he did there. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, we. We are. He is now in the mcu. Marvel Television. >> Sarah : Yeah. And I think more importantly, this is the second spin off from WandaVision.

1:35 >> Will: Yep. >> Sarah : We now. This relationship that started over the course of the Avengers movie have, now received three TV shows. Will, what are. Is like something. Where do you want to start? With the first episode? >> Will: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think where I would like to start was just really, you know, of course we did get the recap of mcu. And for folks who, to your point, not only is it a spin off, you know, of WandaVision, but also many other things as far as clearly Age of Ultron and other. Other entries in the. In the franchise. But me really watching this show and just sort of the opening thoughts I had about it was, it's very interesting that we're using a machine to explore another machine where the other machine had pretty much seemed to experience emotion. And now we're dealing here White Vision that. That was basically built from the remains of the original vision that in Infinity War for him to explore what it means to be human. And, you know, and of course, he, you know, he did get those memories from the concert vision and WandaVision in the finale when they had their showdown. And, he's trying to experience that in these first couple episodes as far as when they start setting things up.

2:49 >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, that is. That is what the show episodes are doing. Yep. I'm not on board with this show, so if you want my overview. Yeah, it's that I was checked out during most of those. I don't know. It's. I could say so many things, but I don't want to rag on it. So, like, is there something like a moment you want to deep dive into specifically that occurred in the first episode or. >> Will: Yeah. So let me ask you this basic question. Do you think the knowledge that the white vision has, of the things that the conjured version of vision experienced in Westview, do you think having that knowledge by watching those videos and stuff, of what happened to him, you know, he watched, helps him understand humanity?

3:34 >> Sarah : Well, yeah. Also, I mean, it's a. Think, about it this way. You look at a photo of when you're four years old, or you watch a video of, your parents took of you doing something when you were, like, three years old. Then 20 years later, you look at that and you talk about it, and your mind tells you, like, do I only know that I experienced that because. Because I saw a photo, or do I actually have a memory of that moment? Yeah, I think about that a lot. So if you put that into context and apply it to this whole, novelist, larger than life idea, then, yeah, he would understand humanity. I mean, and I guess that's where I kind of am, like, not buying into this. It's just because we're supposed to believe he really doesn't understand.

4:25 And I'm like, well, are going down this track because you've watched this. You've watched this story unfold thousands of times to the point where it's become a memory. And so you have the feelings associated with curiosity. I mean, there's. There's so many different emotions he's feeling, and if you experience emotion, then you start to understand humanity. >> Will: So, yeah, I mean, I totally get that. I mean, I think for me, it was kind of like a sort of existential question and that he was really pondering there. And then, you know, the various, you know, with Jarvis and. And Friday and, you know, the dummies and even Edith, they were, I guess, with the. With the A.I. it was very interesting to me how they were, like, using them to help him explore his humanity. It was almost like, you know, thinking of, like, Data in Star Trek, where he was. It was an Android, and he was really trying to learn more about, like, human experience and stuff and experiencing things. And, you know, like when Edith, like, drops through the room there and, you know, trying to, like, explore things through sports, you know, exhilarations and those kind of things that sort of help. Help him, like, explore Manatee and his emotions and all that.

5:34 >> Sarah : So I have a question then. There are many standout episodes of Star Trek where Data is surrounded by other androids. >> Will: It was primarily his brother Lore, who was. >> Sarah : So he didn't have, like, a household filled of androids. And you spent an entire episode. Because that's something that, upon reflection, after watching the episodes, I think that's what struck me. And, I couldn't get into it. It's because Vision's always been a very fascinating character because of his. He's an AI, right? And, we have had others. I mean, clearly the house is now stocked with them, but there's always, like, one in the property. So another way to put this and to frame this is in terms of, like, when you're watching a comedy show, there's always a character who's like your straight guy or straight girl. And so the other larger than life personalities can really pop. Well, here we have all of these AIs, and they're all talking in this language and this and this code to, you know, pun intended. and at the end of the day, it just all felt so freaking scripted. And I get that maybe that's what they were going for, considering you're trying to write for an AI. So it should be robotic, but it felt so, so robotic that it's hard for me to connect and engage and be interested into this because

7:08 I'm, >> Will: Like, yeah, you know, I'm glad you brought that up because I did have that feeling too, in that first episode. And it wasn't the performances, because the performances in and of themselves were very, like, you know, on point. I mean, but it did feel kind of stilted, like you said, or just emotionless. And which is, I guess, by design. I mean, you know, these are artificial intelligence entities. And guess when we did get some sliver of emotion or feeling, it was when Vision, you know, did have conversations with Ultron. But even at that, it was still in the space of, like, Ultron having his sort of historical animus to humanity.

7:51 You know, from thinking back to his creation from Age of Ultron, and, you know, because then he was like, you know, because he did send out the little carrier pigeon to the Paladin, the bounty hunter. So. So, yeah, and all the other AIs were like, don't. You know, we. We can't trust him. That's why you have him locked away, you know, up there in the attic with his TVs and stuff. But even then, you know, both Vision and Ultron were, like, watching movies, watching TV shows, you know, is that really living a life, or is that just, you know, watching a recording of someone else's? >> Sarah : Well, you know, the answer to that. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : So, I mean, the other thing, upon reflection, was that these discussions with Ultron, I'm like, I, wanted this. These kind of conversations, then I would be much more obsessed with Age of Ultron than I actually am. And. And so it just feels a bit redundant there. And this whole exploration with White Vision, it feels like that one single moment or episode, the penultimate episode of WandaVision, is like, okay, we can definitely capitalize on this because the fans seem to love it and turn it into a whole TV show. And I'm like.

9:06 But lines are even brought up in these two episodes and everything. So it just. It didn't feel any. So far, I haven't seen anything new. I haven't seen anything new because the whole Tommy of it all. All I kept thinking about was how they did the execution of Billy, and Billy was. And what was going on. But there was also. It was so focused on Agatha that there was something. The way they were executing that. yes. At the end of the day, I appreciated more of what occurred with Agatha all along than I am right now with Vision Quest. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : I mean, well, and I know it's like two episodes, and I didn't really understand the. Like, I had my issues. Like, I get that all along is no perfect show. It was. I don't even think it was on my top five of the year. But it mean, so far, from the main characters that we receive in these two episodes, whether it be Tommy, Vision, or even Ultron, I feel like I've seen this all before.

10:10 >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a fair point. I mean, it is. There wasn't anything particularly groundbreaking as far as their stories. I mean, I think it was, you know, because, I mean, really, like, the first. What, Few minutes of the first episode really was, you know, it was really just a long exposition dump. >> Sarah : Yeah. Which I don't know why they needed to do that. I feel like there was Something we were talking about either, a few months ago, or maybe it's the last time we recorded when we were talking about, you know, what we were talking about, why I'm invincible, and how it's been forever since we watched the previous season and we were able to go in blind to the fourth season, and there was still familiarity, and yet you didn't feel like you were getting. And then this happened. Don't forget this happened. This happened, and that happened. And you're like, okay. I mean, there's just, in general, so far, a lot of exposition, and just. I just. I'm not a fan of the dialogue at the end of the day.

11:11 >> Will: What is it about the dialogue? I m mean, it's. Not to put too fine a point on it. You think it's, like, written by A.I. just kidding. >> Sarah : Well, no, and I get it if it's intentional, but, see, if I even take the dialogue to, like, the real, quote, unquote, human characters, albeit Paladin. He's just. You know, we've seen this villain 27 times before, if not more. I mean, he's a villain straight out of the Arrowverse, so that's not necessarily a compliment. >> Will: Yeah, early MCU villains. >> Sarah : Well, don't forget, WandaVision is an early MCU show. Or did he mean movies? >> Will: Movies. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:52 >> Will: Like, Phase One, too. >> Sarah : Yeah. Like, it's just. We get that he's paid by this anonymous person, and there's theories, and there should be intrigue about that, but I don't know, you kind of wish there was something more between Paladine and Vision and the idea of AI Taking over and. Or something. I don't know. It's just these first two episodes, I guess I can't say it enough. Like, nothing struck at me as, like, oh, that's an interesting angle to take on this, you know? >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : And I was hoping you would be able to explain to me something I missed. >> Will: Yeah, no, you know what? No, but I go back to our.

12:33 I think we're having a reverse here. Remember, I felt this way with the first couple episodes of WandaVision, if you recall. I was not. It just wasn't clicking with me. >> Sarah : Yeah, I don't recall that, but. And I also don't recall how I felt. >> Will: So we were more on board than I was. Sort of like how we are tonight. So, you know, maybe it was a bit. Maybe we did have a little ruck, you know, challenging start. I had to go back and listen to our conversation from that time. But I do remember for a while it was one of those things that was sort of running joke how I was not on board with WandaVision. And of course as the season progressed, I did get on board. But, maybe the same will happen for you as we continue with, with Vision Quest that, you know, maybe it was maybe a little bit too much set up. And I agree with you with the Tommy thing because. And I guess maybe that was again, part of it was probably intentional. Part of it was just a reminder too for folks as far as, you know, at the last minute where Billy gets put into the one kid in the car accident. And of course now, you know, we get to see where Tommy ends up with. With the drowning that, you know, where that was explored quite a bit in Agatha.

13:35 >> Sarah : So it's not just that though. >> Will: Yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : It's more that him not really like questioning who he is. Like that internal thing, that internal pain. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : We are like, remember we flashed this during Agatha all along. And now even though you already got an explanation from Billy about what that is, like you're getting another explanation from Tommy. Only it's also six months afterwards and some other kooky stuff happened in between. I don't know, it just. You. You're also given like, Tommy had a rough childhood before, which just makes me question, okay, why were you in the pool with friends and family? It looked like a friendly thing, but you come from this rough background.

14:26 There's just so much missing in order to really, create a three dimensional character. So you can understand the way we did with Billy, like that two sides. So it felt like it was more focused on this questioning of identity because that parallels with what's going on with White Vision, which it's like. Yeah. It's also not very creative or interesting in my opinion. >> Will: Yeah, yeah. I mean it is like, Yeah, yeah, whatever. Whenever he does like capture Tommy and all, uses him, uses Tommy as bait to draw out vision to. To the Evans. Yeah, it was, it was like, okay, you know, we see, we see what's happening here. But I did like how they ended the second episode with how at least Tommy pushing him away. It's like, look, you know, save yourself, get away, run. And then of course they have him, you know, Tommy come back to rescue. To rescue Vision. And. And it is basically, I guess it just gets into like to your point about the parallel tracks that both these characters are on as far as just trying to explore who their family is. We have White Vision who has this found family of all these little Stark AIs. We have Tommy having these Flashbacks to what happened at the pool, things he seen, these visions of someone else's. Pun intended, of someone else's life. And so they.

15:54 These two characters are like different constructs, but both of them are going through the same journey as far as just trying to find out who they are and what their families are and what their backgrounds are. So I mean, from that standpoint, from just sort of setting up the premise of the show, I mean, it does seem to lay the groundwork for some potential interesting exploration of journeys with these two individuals. >> Sarah : Can you elaborate on that? >> Will: Yeah, I mean, I think with Tommy, I think it's just finding out where. Where he came from because he knows there's something different about him from sort of, And it was with what happened to him, where he was before the pool and where he is after. And so he sees all these visions in his. And these things happening to him. People think he's, you know, whenever they take him to the police station and stuff, you know, he's like, I'm broken. I'm trying to figure out like what's going on with me here. And I'm seeing these things. And.

16:47 And then whenever he does share that line of, we're all familiar with what is grief but love persevering, you know, that's something that when Vision saw that he was like, yeah, oh, people in the world know that conversation. And, and so now he's just like, you know, that spurs White Vision to move forward in his journey of maybe now embracing the fact that he could have a family. Because beforehand it was. He had these AIs, but they really weren't like a family. They were just sort of construct things there for. There wasn't like a family family unit. Now that, he heard that from Tommy, he's like, oh, now I have an opportunity to possibly explore what the original Vision was able to have or even the conduit vision there in West Westview that Wanda came up with that we saw in. In part one of this trilogy of shows. So. So I think that's, you know, I think that's the journey that we're going to sort of explore with these two characters as we move forward with. With the remaining six episodes of the series.

17:50 >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, very well and very likely to be the case. So thank you for all the spoilers. >> Will: Whenever Vision and Jarvis also had their. Their last little conversation and we saw the little Human Torch in the back. So we'll see. You know, one of the things that issues with emotions and synthetic life forms and Coming up, having emotions is, as they mentioned, the first of Us, you know, remains a cautionary tale of what could become of us if emotions consume us. And so again, another tie in back to the original Captain America, the First Avenger. There was that we had there with the original Human Torch. Not, not Johnny Storm, but, but Jim Hammond and he was artificial creation. And, and clearly with these shows, they never drop a character or beat like that with, without some kind of follow through. So I'm very curious to see how that character integrates into this larger story that we have here as well.

18:40 >> Sarah : So, so what could happen? Emotions consume. >> Will: Well, he ended up like Ultron, possibly. >> Sarah : You know, Is that what happened with Ultron? >> Will: Well, maybe not. I mean, well, I guess if he has emotions, I guess he would ultimately see what the original Vision had, because the original Vision did and he and Wanda did, you know, did basically fall in love. And, and I think White Vision wants to experience that. >> Sarah : So wait, let's go back to the line though, about like, what was it? The first of Us. Yeah, like let it be an example. We let emotions consume. >> Will: Yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : Okay, so, so, and who are they referring to as the first of Us?

19:21 >> Will: The Human Torch. >> Sarah : Got it. >> Will: Person that was in that painting that was behind Jarvis and Vision there before Vision goes off to the, to the sanitarium. >> Sarah : And so do you want to drop any knowledge about the Human Torch and like the lore of it? >> Will: I mean, basically it was the first AI created back in the 40s. Got it, yeah. And his name is Jim Hammond. And the only thing, I mean the character just from the trailers and stuff does show up in the series, but, but beyond that, I don't have much knowledge those elements. And you know, folks in the chat, feel free to like drop in there in the comments if you know more about that particular character. But I mean, but those are just elements I just know about the character from, from that expo, from Captain America. And yeah, gonna show up.

20:08 >> Sarah : That's good. Because I was confused by that moment of who exactly they were talking about because in my mind I only know of like, are we talking about Jarvis? Like who are we talking about right now? And then I'm like, this is about Vision. So are they referring to Vision and what ultimately happened to him? Because he fell in love with Wanda. But I never thought that we were talking about Ultron, but because he, yeah, he. I wouldn't call that emotion as like fear, which is an emotion, but just the. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, you know, and >> Will: again, that was in the context of the fire. I Mean, I wonder if, like, with this. And maybe we'll, as the series progresses, we'll learn more about what this character does.

20:54 >> Sarah : The torch guy. >> Will: Yeah, that's when they referenced it. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, if he's gonna pop up on this show, we're gonna learn a little bit about what they are referring to in terms of, like, let this be an example to you. Freaking. >> Will: I don't really have much more to really. To really talk about with the episode. I mean, you know, it's a lot of setup. Oh, yeah. I guess there's also Lisa. She's the coat of arms, I think is her character's name as far as, you know, Marvel lore. But, you know, she was there with Tommy and of course they were like, pit pocking together in lo. But so I guess, you know, we'll get more of their. Their adventures and, you know, how she fits into all this as we move forward. And then also, who's the benefactor behind the Paladin as far as who hired him and, you know, do you have theories? I mean, I was like, I wonder if Billy and Agatha, like, were the ones who hired him to help track him down. Yeah, yeah, possibly. Or maybe somebody from sword, who knows?

21:46 >> Sarah : on that note, want to tell our listeners where they can find you? >> Will: Yes, you can find me, social media and all that stuff at. Ah, Willem Polk. W I L L M P O >> Sarah : L K. You can find me there too, at SJ Belmont S J B E L M N T. Please follow our crew on X, formerly known as Twitter at Scene and nerd on Blue Sky. Trend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads. Scene, underscore n, underscore nerd, and visit our website, www.scenenerdpodcast.com. but most importantly, write, follow and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.