The Problem with the Stranger Things Finale

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>> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your

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host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is

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our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing

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tonight, Will?

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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. Happy New Year.

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>> Sarah : Okay, Happy New Year to you too. But, you just

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said something that now I have to mention it, even

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though it kind of feels like you wanted to get it

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out of the way during the pre show, so. So you

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don't like it when I bring up a weather

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conversation to kick off the show?

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>> Will: No, no, I was just saying. Oh. It's just, you

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know, we have stranger things to talk about. I

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know you wanted to talk about, like, what you

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benched over the holidays. So I was like, you

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know, we don't need to really talk about the

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weather this time.

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>> Sarah : We don't need to talk about the weather. But I

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will preface, the weather is the reason why. Well,

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I don't know if it's the reason why, but I will

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say that rumors are true. It was freezing cold. 50

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below zero. 40 to 50 below zero for multiple days

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in a row. We are still kind of in a cold snap. It

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warmed up 20 degrees, meaning negative 20 today.

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That's warm, guys, trust me, the moment you feel

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40 and then you go to. Or, ah, negative 40 and

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then you go to negative 20, all of a sudden,

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negative 20 feels like, oh, there's the sun. Where

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have you been? It is. It is night and day.

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However, what I do despise is the freaking snow

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that started. But anyways, because Will doesn't

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want me to talk about the weather for too long. I

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will say, though, just before I go off this

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tangent, I just want to point out one thing.

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Alaska, is a large state. The largest state in

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United States. And, Juneau, while we're dealing

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with a negative 50 here in the interior and Juno

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was dealing with snow. Snow again. Because they

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got like, I'm talking 50 inches.

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>> Will: Oh, my God.

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>> Sarah : I've seen footage. I've. And it.

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>> Will: Are you sure? Are you sure it's not AI?

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>> Sarah : No, no, no. It's. It's because it. Like my friends

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and. And I know I've lived in, Juno for seven

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years, so I understand their snowfall. I am

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thanking the Lord that I am up here and we're just

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dealing with the bitter cold because down there

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with that. With that snow and with the power

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outages that come.

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>> Will: Right, right.

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>> Sarah : It's just that that would have sucked for two

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weeks because it was all two weeks and it's still

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snowing. But like I said, we're not Going to spend

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the entirety of this episode talking about that.

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Instead, the wither. The weather allowed me to

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really, really knock out some shows. Okay. Knock

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out some shows, that were kind of unexpected. And

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the first one I want to talk about is heated

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rivalry.

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>> Will: Oh, see, I had. Yeah, See, Albert. yeah. So you

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going to do a. Should we do a spoiler alert or

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not? Because I haven't watched, like, Heated Rival

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yet, and I do want to watch that. I've heard a lot

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of great things about it, but I had, I was, like,

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dealing with my own heated rivalries as far as,

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like, my, my Panthers trying to make into the

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playoffs, which I did, but I don't think that's.

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>> Sarah : The pun you want to use. I don't.

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>> Will: I know, I know, I know, I know. It's all about

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hockey and all that. I, I know the baseball is

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not.

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>> Sarah : About hockey at all. I mean, Will let me talk

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about the show that I watched.

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>> Will: I will shut up and let you go, okay?

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>> Sarah : You know me. I know you didn't watch it. You would

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have told me. So. I, don't do spoilers. I try not

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to. I also don't know if this is a show for you.

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>> Will: Oh, I know, I know. I, I, I, I've seen the

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Premises stuff, and it is on my, it was on my list

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to catch over the holidays.

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>> Sarah : But it's not about the premise. It's not about the

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premise, guys. It's not about the premise. It's

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not. I just want to say, I don't watch bls. I, I

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know about them especially, that those that exist

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outside of Western culture, it's, they're very.

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BLS are very big in Thailand. And when I say bl,

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for those who are not used to that acronym, boy

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Love. It's just short for Boy Love, so, So I just,

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I, I don't, I don't watch them. I, I've. Maybe

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I've tried, but. Yeah, so this really is my first

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bl, and I started it thinking, oh, I'm just gonna

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watch an episode, and the next thing I know, six

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hours have gone by, and I blame Ilia for it, okay?

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I blame Ilya, because that freaking Russian, who's

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not a Russian, he's a Texan. This is a spoiler

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alert, okay? Not for the show itself, but for the

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fact that the actor who plays Ilya is not Russian

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at all. Not at all. Okay? Not at all. I can't

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stress this enough. He's not at all Russian, and

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it is funny, and that's why I'm, trying to

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remember if I found that out via TikTok after or

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right before I decided to watch it. Because over.

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Over the week of Christmas, my Tick Tock was

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basically like, sarah, you need to watch Heated

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rivalry. Sarah, you need to. It was. It was going.

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It was going. I watched it. I. It's not about the

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promise, Will. But why. I. Let's just say, wow,

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they took some pages from, I don't know, a little

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show we know as the boys. I'll just say that in

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terms of. Wow. Okay, so we're. We're still here.

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And. Okay, wow, we are still here. but besides

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that, I was thinking about it and why I really

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appreciate this show is the chemistry is real.

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well, and I say that. Not saying, like, the actors

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are clearly in love with each other. No, I say,

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like, the. It's just palpable. and. And I. I was

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telling my mom about this, knowing she would never

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watch the show, and I was like, I think I. I think

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why I stuck with it was because I. It really

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reminded me of a little show that I've brought up

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time and time again called One Day.

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>> Sarah : And. And why it reminded me of that is because

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you're talking about two characters who just.

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Every episode's a new day. I'm not saying it's the

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same thing that happens here. No. But there are

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time jumps, okay? And if you're gonna watch the

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show, do not be distracted during. Specifically

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the first episode, because the number of time

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jumps that occur within the span of the 40

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minutes. It's absurd to the point where I kind of.

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I kind. And I. And I should have. But then new

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things came to mind, and I started watching other

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stuff that I haven't gotten around to. So I never

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circled back. But. And plus, I've. I feel like

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I've watched every Ilia and Shane Tick Tock edit

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there is. So I. I basically have re. Watched the

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show or all the best scenes. so. So it's just. I.

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It is very low budget. That's another thing that's

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kind of jarring. you can. You can tell this is a

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Canadian show. No offense, guys, but I have

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watched other Canadian shows. And he just. You can

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tell. Heck, I watch K dramas. You can tell. There

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is a budgetary difference here. but, yeah, I. And.

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And I also. I. I will just say say this to y'.

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All, if you're interested in the show, you might

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want to wait until season two is closer, because

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I'm now mad that we only got six episodes, and I'm

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like, I have to wait. What is this?

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>> Will: Yeah, is it. But is it season two coming? Maybe

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not this year, but maybe next? I mean, I think

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it's, I think I heard. I know it's been. Well,

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there's a book for a second scene. Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Oh, yeah. It's been approved for a second season.

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There's a book. They shot this first season in 90

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days, like, a very short period of time. again,

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you can tell. But you, But I also like, it's a

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good show, it's a good story, and therefore, it's

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like, I only get six episodes. You want more?

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Granted, what pisses me off more is that now I

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have to, I have to, also, avoid book readers who

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are giving spoilers. And I'm watching y' all

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because y', all, I, I see those edits of being

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like, oh, people are looking forward to the next

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season, but they don't know, blah, blah, blah. I'm

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like, I don't want to know. I don't want to know

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because I understand storytelling. I understand

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when two characters get together, if there's

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another season, those characters have to break up

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eventually only to get back together. I understand

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shipping. Do not, do not do that. I get it.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

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>> Sarah : But rant over anyway. Heated rivalry. very fun

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time. I'm also glad I didn't watch week to week.

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I'm so glad that, that, that's such a freaking

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bingeable show. I'm so glad I, I was able to

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straight binge it. another show I binged just the

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other day was a little, little show called Task.

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this is a show where I think I probably could have

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waited so much longer because my, this show just

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came out and wrapped up between November and

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December on HBO Max and the ever. All the critics

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were like, oh, this is a great show, and blah,

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blah, blah. No, okay. It's okay. It's okay. Mark

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Ruffalo is great, but Mark Ruffalo is great in

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everything he is. That's, about it. I, I, I

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appreciate the B storyline with him and his

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family. That's what kept me going. Because I don't

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know if I've mentioned this, I don't know, once or

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twice on the show. I watched this other show

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called Sons of Anarchy. And so the A storyline is

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very much Sons of Anarchy. And so I was like,

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I've, I, I spent like four years, like six years.

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I, I, I, I'm, I can't, it's never going to Be the

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same to the point where I'm pretty sure I'm 99

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sure. One of the main members of the bike gang is,

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is from is Front played a character on Sense of

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Anarchy. It was too much for me. It was too much

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for me. So, so I say if you are interested in it

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because you keep hearing all these good things,

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take a pause. There's no rush to this show. It'll

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always be there. I would, I would get some time

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removed from the praise to like lower your

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expectations. And then when you just need

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something to, to watch like, like a Reacher, I

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would put this on par with Reacher. That's honest.

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My, my feelings. Like, I think you would take a

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little bit more, from it than me, but because you,

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you also didn't watch Sons of Anarchy. But I also,

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I, I think it's worth the pause. I mean, a part of

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me wonders if in hindsight, if we had actually

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watched Severance 2 as it was airing, would we

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have developed the affection for that season that

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we did by watching it like nine months later?

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>> Will: Yeah, I think I would have. I think I would have.

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This is one of those shows that, that I, I, you

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just fall in love. It really, it really works for

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you if it, if you, it's one of those like, true

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shows where I, you especially with the week to

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week release, but had something to build to. And I

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think it's the way that show is structured. I

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think is structured in a way that you, at least

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for me, I, I, I like those, I like those burns

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like that.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I did start Fallout. We will

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not be talking about the first four episodes of

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Fallout season two tonight. but we will be talking

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about those four episodes next week.

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>> Will: Mainly,

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>> Sarah : Because the fourth episode doesn't come out until

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Wednesday.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, we will get fully caught up to fall

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out. So then you can, we'll be covering it from

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week to week, as it, as it drops along with, Nine

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of the Seven Kingdoms.

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>> Sarah : M m. Because, because I was watching Task the

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other day. I kept seeing the preview for the Night

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of Seven and I like immediately mute. I don't want

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to hear anything. I don't, I already know they're

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short episodes and all of this, but yeah, we, we

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have Will's already put out, kind of a calendar of

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what's coming. Guys, we're gonna be fed. Besides

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that, I have my own internal calendar Will of

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things that are coming for me because, I also

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started because I caved last night and I bought, I

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Or I renewed my subscription for Paramount plus

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mainly because I realized the third season of

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School Spirit starts at the end of this month. But

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I'm double motivated to start it now because

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Landman Season 2, which I know started back in

250
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November.

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>> Will: Yep.

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>> Sarah : so. So I, I've watched the first two episodes of

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that. So.

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>> Will: Cool. Yeah yeah, yeah. Also for me this month I

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have Star Trek, the new Star Trek show, Starfleet

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Academy. season one will be dropping his first two

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episodes on the 15th. So I'll be talking about

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those on the Star Trek show that we do here on the

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channel Blerd Trek. So, still trying to figure out

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how I'm gonna do the reviews if it's going to be

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more of just But I try not to. I'm trying to avoid

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just a play by play beat by beat. I really just.

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If there's. I really like to go over themes with

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these characters and stuff. And then also just

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given that a set, it's another spin off of Star

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Trek Discovery. So yeah, so you know, I'm looking

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to see how. How deep they like go into nostalgia

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and also, you know, that's well worn tropes for

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this, you know, for Star Trek, which is also

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celebrating the 60th year. So. Yeah, this year

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also. So. So yeah, I'll be I'll be starting to

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pick that up and then, that and then you know,

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there'll just be other just sort of random things.

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I also know. And also for folks we. We. We do have

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Wonder man also, coming up at the end of this

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month. I did see the. Did see the trailer for. For

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it. I still, you know, I don't know. I'm just kind

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of. I'm just not feeling the Marvel thing these

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days y'.

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>> Sarah : All. So everyone just before you're like, hold

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your breath because the last time Will talked

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about this regarding Marvel project, it was this

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movie called Thunderbolts. Thunderbolts. And. And

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he has since told me he really likes the movies.

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>> Will: I do. Yeah, I do. It was. Yeah, it was on my tops

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of As far as the movies I saw last year. It was.

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It was in. In my, in my top top group. So. So

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yeah.

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>> Sarah : And even if it does suck, we're still gonna cover

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00:16:47,060 --> 00:16:49,220
it. Okay? We're still gonna cover it because.

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>> Will: Yep.

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>> Sarah : Because we, we We Secret.

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>> Will: No. Secret Invasion.

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>> Sarah : I wasn't gonna go Ironheart. Ironheart's better

295
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than Secret Invasion.

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>> Will: Oh yeah, much better. Much better. Yeah yeah yeah.

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>> Sarah : unfortunately, I don't think it's gonna get Season

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two, which is part of my issue with that show

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getting started and.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Anyway, yeah, whatever.

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>> Will: They like do a. We're gonna drop. You know, we

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went from like looking like it was gonna be weekly

304
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to like basically dropping all eight episodes on

305
00:17:20,450 --> 00:17:24,220
the 27th of January. I'm like, yeah, yeah. I think

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00:17:24,220 --> 00:17:26,020
they're just like clear the deck so we can get

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Doomsday.

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>> Sarah : Well, there was no marketing for it.

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>> Will: None. None.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. And, and that was a sign. And then later

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they're like, yeah, maybe we should drop all

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episodes at once. And like. Okay. So.

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>> Will: Okay. Yeah.

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>> Sarah : You have no faith in this project for some weird

315
00:17:42,220 --> 00:17:43,220
reason. No faith.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if it's going to be like,

317
00:17:45,530 --> 00:17:48,440
what was that show they did that Echo in January

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where they did that all set. That also that big to

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00:17:51,890 --> 00:17:52,250
drop.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. speaking about Doomsday, how are you

321
00:17:57,660 --> 00:17:59,450
liking the Mac? The marketing?

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00:18:00,230 --> 00:18:02,560
>> Will: I like, I like, I like how everybody's like

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00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,360
stealing the marketing. So I guess it's working.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. It's this weird thing where as someone who

325
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,480
complains about how long and how much trailers

326
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,360
give away, I'm not mad at this at all. I have no

327
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,290
idea because in my part, part of my head is like,

328
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I think they're, I, wouldn't be surprised if these

329
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scenes are just shot for the marketing. Like

330
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they're not actually in the mov. Like the

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00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,840
characters are going to be in the movie, but the

332
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,480
scenes themselves I don't think are going to be at

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00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,520
least the first, the first two that we've

334
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,480
received. I don't think those are scenes from the

335
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,770
movie. So, it's, and, and to your point, like it's

336
00:18:43,770 --> 00:18:48,820
very memeable and it definitely is a different

337
00:18:48,980 --> 00:18:52,700
way. I, I, I can, I also appreciate just the

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00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:57,220
creativity because nobody has ever done and

339
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marketed a film like this before and a lot of

340
00:19:01,620 --> 00:19:05,460
people are still just very curious about the plot

341
00:19:05,540 --> 00:19:08,740
and the premise of this movie. And you're keep,

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00:19:08,740 --> 00:19:12,560
you're able to market the movie while keeping the

343
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,560
curiosity at an all time high.

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>> Will: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I, I think the. More I

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00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,470
haven't, I haven't seen the ones with the with the

346
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X Men yet, but, but the

347
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>> Sarah : Well, there's rumors that they're saving that for

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the Super Bowl.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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>> Sarah : So I.

351
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>> Will: Well, I thought, yeah, well, I thought they did

352
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the little teaser with the. Because I've been

353
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,800
dropping each, each week with Avatar each, each

354
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week. So I thought the third one did drop with av,

355
00:19:44,500 --> 00:19:46,460
with James Marston because I Saw like I saw

356
00:19:46,460 --> 00:19:54,180
Marston and like. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I've only seen

357
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still. I just saw a still photo like as I was

358
00:19:56,790 --> 00:19:58,350
scrolling on like Instagram or something like

359
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that. But I haven't seen it. I haven't seen like

360
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the full one like I have with, with Cap and with

361
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Thor, which I really like the Thor one because

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they're really getting. Yeah. Because even Chris

363
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:11,680
Hemsworth is talking about how how goofy Thor had

364
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,920
gotten, especially after Tycat taken over the

365
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,510
character and stuff. So so I really like that. I

366
00:20:16,510 --> 00:20:19,070
like, I like the Thor one a lot. So I liked it

367
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better than the Captain one actually.

368
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>> Sarah : I agree, I agree with that.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:31,280
>> Sarah : all right, well, we are here to talk about

371
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:37,370
Stranger Things Season five, technically part two

372
00:20:37,610 --> 00:20:40,610
and the finale as Pete or volume two and the

373
00:20:40,610 --> 00:20:46,490
finale as people refer to it. Will, where, where

374
00:20:46,490 --> 00:20:52,250
do you want to start? Like, because I, I have some

375
00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:55,010
thoughts but they're very general and they're not

376
00:20:55,010 --> 00:20:56,370
a lot of specific things.

377
00:20:57,170 --> 00:21:00,440
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. I mean, okay, I have, I have to sort

378
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,280
of have overall thoughts as far as just the second

379
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,260
volume and the finale. both positive.

380
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>> Sarah : Hit me with one of those thoughts.

381
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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. So I guess overall, this last, this,

382
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,840
this last volume in the finale to me and, and this

383
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,960
is not an original thought I think you know, many

384
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,960
folks have said this but, but it is truly how I

385
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:33,420
felt when the volume two in particular, it's like

386
00:21:33,420 --> 00:21:38,220
the best and worst of, of Stranger Things. in the

387
00:21:38,220 --> 00:21:43,540
sense that for me especially volume two, I, I it.

388
00:21:43,620 --> 00:21:49,300
The best parts of it was even though things were

389
00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:52,940
very repetitive as far as some of the beats, it's

390
00:21:52,940 --> 00:21:56,580
just like you know, fill in character A and B and

391
00:21:56,580 --> 00:21:58,700
we're basically going to do the same emotional

392
00:21:59,340 --> 00:22:04,320
speech or you know, truth telling moment or

393
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:10,040
whatever you want to call it. But the whenever the

394
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:16,440
those episodes ended, they always, always end with

395
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,600
a. They, they have great endings to these episodes

396
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,910
where they just like things happen and it just

397
00:22:22,910 --> 00:22:24,830
gets you route, you know, get your blood pumping

398
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:27,870
and get your revved up and then, and then it cut.

399
00:22:27,870 --> 00:22:30,870
You know, and then they, the big of the thing

400
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:33,230
happens and then they cut to the, you know, it's

401
00:22:33,230 --> 00:22:35,270
like cut the black and then it's like oh gosh, I

402
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:38,349
got it now I gotta like watch the next episode. So

403
00:22:38,349 --> 00:22:40,750
though, you know. So I think from the emotional

404
00:22:40,750 --> 00:22:43,910
beats when they do land, as long as they don't

405
00:22:43,910 --> 00:22:46,310
like go to butcher is one of my negative points.

406
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:50,870
Belabor things with, with a lot of these

407
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:53,350
characters. Ah. I thought those Those were the

408
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:56,320
aspects of the show that worked well. but, you

409
00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,600
know, it. It. It definitely. Overall, I thought

410
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,480
it, you know, is. I think we said this with maybe

411
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,960
with Volume one. You know, it's like, about two

412
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,240
years too late as far as this show, as far as

413
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,060
ending, and they had a. In. In whenever you have a

414
00:23:14,060 --> 00:23:16,660
show like this where you've built up so much. You

415
00:23:16,660 --> 00:23:18,660
know, so much has built up. Has been built up

416
00:23:18,660 --> 00:23:23,420
around it that there's this. In such. Such

417
00:23:23,420 --> 00:23:27,260
expectations and, and the theory spirals and, you

418
00:23:27,260 --> 00:23:30,860
know, people's head cannons and stuff. The Duffers

419
00:23:30,860 --> 00:23:34,700
had a very diff. A very hard task of being able

420
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:40,670
to. To wrap this up and in a way that would. There

421
00:23:40,670 --> 00:23:42,310
was no way there was gonna. They were going to be

422
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:43,350
able to satisfy everyone.

423
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:44,630
>> Sarah : And.

424
00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:50,390
>> Will: And for me, overall, I felt how things concluded,

425
00:23:50,550 --> 00:23:53,910
both the Volume two and also the finale. It was

426
00:23:53,910 --> 00:23:58,550
fun, but that's just sort of. It was fine for me.

427
00:24:01,030 --> 00:24:03,670
>> Sarah : Yeah. I think to go back to your first thought

428
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:08,880
about the, the conversations that were had in some

429
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,710
of the earlier episodes of Volume Two, it just

430
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:16,670
made me reflect on our conversation about Volume

431
00:24:16,670 --> 00:24:20,790
one in the sense that when the. The Duffer

432
00:24:20,790 --> 00:24:23,870
Brothers really soar, when they finally allow

433
00:24:23,870 --> 00:24:28,270
their characters to actually say what is genuinely

434
00:24:28,270 --> 00:24:31,340
on their mind. Like in Volume two, when we

435
00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:34,500
finally. Finally get a freaking honest

436
00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:37,460
conversation between Jonathan and Nancy, and it's

437
00:24:37,460 --> 00:24:41,180
like, dear Lord, thank you. Because I'm actually

438
00:24:41,180 --> 00:24:43,540
entertained by this, and you finally are saying

439
00:24:43,540 --> 00:24:46,500
these things and being honest about it. And. Yeah,

440
00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:48,380
we all knew they were never going to end up

441
00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:53,500
together, but I. I thought it was a cute and fun

442
00:24:53,580 --> 00:24:57,060
moment. Made sense. Same thing with Dustin and

443
00:24:57,060 --> 00:24:59,940
Steve, that their moment, their argument, and

444
00:24:59,940 --> 00:25:03,870
their coming to terms with grief and growing up.

445
00:25:04,190 --> 00:25:04,750
>> Will: Yeah.

446
00:25:05,150 --> 00:25:09,230
>> Sarah : But here's the thing. But whether we talk about

447
00:25:09,390 --> 00:25:11,830
Volume two, whether we talk about the show as a

448
00:25:11,830 --> 00:25:14,590
whole, whether we talk about the finale, for me,

449
00:25:16,140 --> 00:25:19,020
because I know a lot of people love this show,

450
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:23,530
love this finale. they understand the differences

451
00:25:24,010 --> 00:25:28,370
or the negatives and the. But they also have a

452
00:25:28,370 --> 00:25:35,220
different affinity for this world. but for me, I

453
00:25:35,220 --> 00:25:39,340
feel like if I'm really honest to my relationship

454
00:25:39,340 --> 00:25:43,940
with this show, I. There, there. It's just popcorn

455
00:25:43,940 --> 00:25:47,820
entertainment. Therefore, they're just moments.

456
00:25:48,620 --> 00:25:48,780
>> Will: Yeah.

457
00:25:48,780 --> 00:25:52,620
>> Sarah : this show as a whole is not good to me. This show

458
00:25:52,620 --> 00:25:56,360
as a whole, the story as a whole, and is not

459
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:59,560
excellent storytelling. There are a lot of issues

460
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,240
I have with it, but. But there are. Every now and

461
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,920
then we get those. Those two dialogue scenes, and

462
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,080
I'm like, this is this is why I enjoy the show

463
00:26:11,639 --> 00:26:17,000
only to then. And I'm gonna go there only then

464
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,760
finally have the moment we've all been waiting

465
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,910
for. The Will's coming out moment. How. How do you

466
00:26:24,910 --> 00:26:29,710
screw that up? The, the, the it is between and,

467
00:26:29,710 --> 00:26:32,190
and just when you think that's the most memeable

468
00:26:32,350 --> 00:26:36,030
scene from this season, if not the entire show,

469
00:26:37,150 --> 00:26:40,230
then you have the. I believe at the very end we'll

470
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:46,300
get there. But the, the, the Will, there was so

471
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:51,950
much arguably the And, and here's how I think they

472
00:26:51,950 --> 00:26:54,430
screwed it up. They screwed it up because they

473
00:26:54,590 --> 00:26:57,790
tied it to Vecna.

474
00:26:58,190 --> 00:26:59,390
>> Will: Yes, yes.

475
00:27:00,350 --> 00:27:02,750
>> Sarah : There was no need for that.

476
00:27:03,230 --> 00:27:03,790
>> Will: Nope.

477
00:27:04,190 --> 00:27:10,470
>> Sarah : By doing that it made it so cringe and it, and it,

478
00:27:10,470 --> 00:27:15,090
and it did not make that very human, very

479
00:27:15,250 --> 00:27:21,810
personal, very them like moment that we've all

480
00:27:21,810 --> 00:27:25,170
been waiting for. Of truth yourself. Honestly.

481
00:27:25,490 --> 00:27:28,529
Also another thing that I thought was very

482
00:27:28,529 --> 00:27:31,210
noticeable is when they're all going around and

483
00:27:31,210 --> 00:27:33,570
being like me too, me too, me too.

484
00:27:34,290 --> 00:27:34,770
>> Will: Yeah.

485
00:27:34,770 --> 00:27:36,530
>> Sarah : There are characters who don't say that.

486
00:27:37,730 --> 00:27:38,290
>> Will: Yeah.

487
00:27:38,530 --> 00:27:43,500
>> Sarah : And so this again is why I don't is what, how they

488
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:45,780
diluted this scene in this moment that we've all

489
00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:50,100
been anticipating is because the only arguably two

490
00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:53,980
or three people who he needed to say that to. He

491
00:27:53,980 --> 00:27:56,580
did not need to say that to everyone. He really

492
00:27:56,580 --> 00:27:59,620
didn't. He needed to say that to Mike. He needed

493
00:27:59,620 --> 00:28:03,300
to say that to his mom. And maybe Jonathan. And I

494
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:06,340
just say maybe Jonathan because when was the last

495
00:28:06,340 --> 00:28:09,260
time we've really seen Will and Jonathan interact?

496
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:12,520
>> Will: Yeah, it's been a long time. I mean maybe, maybe.

497
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,000
Yeah, I mean maybe when they were in California. I

498
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,600
mean as far as meaningful interactions.

499
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,960
>> Sarah : Yeah. They, they haven't. That's the other thing.

500
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,510
I, I, I. And I guess, I guess we're, we'll get,

501
00:28:24,510 --> 00:28:26,990
we'll get back to like meaningful interactions.

502
00:28:26,990 --> 00:28:29,310
But I want to hear your thoughts about Wills

503
00:28:29,310 --> 00:28:31,870
coming out because that was a big point for you

504
00:28:31,870 --> 00:28:33,310
during the first half of the season.

505
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:38,040
>> Will: Yeah. That, that I was just, I was disappointed I,

506
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,400
in, in that scene. I, I had heard, you know, and

507
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,480
it wasn't because I was spoiled about it either. I

508
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,120
mean I heard it was, it was a moment m. In episode

509
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,680
seven. But you know, I 100 agree and co sign what

510
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,760
you said with the mistake was tying it to Vecna.

511
00:28:57,450 --> 00:29:03,880
because it, because you know, especially how it

512
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,800
was done as far as, you know, playing on the fears

513
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,360
and, and, and then, you know, you, you build this

514
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,680
moment up so much as far as the, you know, why.

515
00:29:17,570 --> 00:29:20,150
you know, as far as why Will that you know,

516
00:29:20,150 --> 00:29:24,530
finally did come out and, and then, but, but

517
00:29:24,530 --> 00:29:27,690
you've, and you, you centered around the big, the

518
00:29:28,650 --> 00:29:31,610
Big Bad, which you know, which you know, Beckno

519
00:29:31,610 --> 00:29:34,730
mind player. Whichever way you go, the bottom line

520
00:29:34,730 --> 00:29:37,530
is you set it up. Like you're going to use this as

521
00:29:37,770 --> 00:29:40,249
a big moment for when they did have the big

522
00:29:40,250 --> 00:29:45,210
cinematic battle. You know, Will is going to have

523
00:29:45,210 --> 00:29:49,690
a very pivotal part in it. But honestly the, the

524
00:29:49,770 --> 00:29:54,570
he had he, he actually had a bigger yes. Like

525
00:29:54,570 --> 00:29:58,010
power moment in the, in the volume one than he did

526
00:29:58,010 --> 00:29:58,970
in the finale.

527
00:29:59,210 --> 00:29:59,570
>> Sarah : Right.

528
00:29:59,570 --> 00:30:03,290
>> Will: So it, so I would have reversed it, you know.

529
00:30:03,610 --> 00:30:04,330
>> Sarah : Exactly.

530
00:30:04,730 --> 00:30:07,669
>> Will: Yeah. Have Yeah, use what the moment he had in you

531
00:30:07,669 --> 00:30:08,630
know, episode four.

532
00:30:09,710 --> 00:30:12,590
>> Will: In the finale. So that, you know, so that's one

533
00:30:12,590 --> 00:30:12,910
thing.

534
00:30:14,910 --> 00:30:17,830
>> Sarah : Sorry, I, I, I, I just want to elaborate on that

535
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:21,450
point because I think you're spot on. Like he

536
00:30:21,450 --> 00:30:25,530
should not have if, if you're gonna tie it to the

537
00:30:25,530 --> 00:30:29,690
Big Bad then and, and the Big Bad's like control

538
00:30:29,850 --> 00:30:33,050
over you. He should not have become the sorcerer

539
00:30:33,050 --> 00:30:35,890
in episode four. No, he should have become the

540
00:30:35,890 --> 00:30:40,650
sorcerer after this, this coming out moment. And

541
00:30:40,650 --> 00:30:43,970
like that allowed him to actually embrace that

542
00:30:43,970 --> 00:30:47,840
side. I have a whole, whole other issue with like

543
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,440
Will as a character and this season, but we'll get

544
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,080
there. But what was your point number two?

545
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,840
>> Will: Yeah, point number two is I, I did just the way

546
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,760
the scene was structured. Having the whole, I mean

547
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,320
that was a real, you know, whenever I think about

548
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:10,760
when, when Robin came out to, to dust to Steve and

549
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,480
how intimate that moment was and it was this very

550
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,630
matter, it was very matter of fact. You know, the,

551
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:18,510
you know, the two characters had such chemistry

552
00:31:18,510 --> 00:31:22,190
and Steve being Steve and then, and, and, and, and

553
00:31:22,190 --> 00:31:25,070
even when Robin and, and Will were having the

554
00:31:25,070 --> 00:31:29,190
conversation, their conversations this season. So

555
00:31:30,230 --> 00:31:33,270
the half like yeah. M, you know, to have Murray

556
00:31:33,270 --> 00:31:37,270
have k. Have you all these, you know, the whole

557
00:31:37,270 --> 00:31:41,030
crew. I mean really, you know, I agree with the

558
00:31:41,030 --> 00:31:42,750
people that you had the only other, you know,

559
00:31:42,750 --> 00:31:47,180
maybe just maybe also add Max, Lucas and Dustin,

560
00:31:47,180 --> 00:31:49,180
you know, because that's the core group. It should

561
00:31:49,180 --> 00:31:53,260
just been the core group. Not, not the hangers on.

562
00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:54,260
>> Sarah : Right.

563
00:31:54,260 --> 00:31:56,900
>> Will: Maybe 11. Yeah, you know, I guess 11 by extension.

564
00:31:56,900 --> 00:31:59,780
But you know, but I think you know, again it just

565
00:31:59,780 --> 00:32:03,500
sort of illustrates like how big this show has,

566
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:07,240
has gotten to the point where you know, true

567
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,600
character development and you know, it was just

568
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,040
too many people on the chessboard.

569
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:17,150
>> Sarah : Well, yeah, I, How do I want to go into this

570
00:32:17,150 --> 00:32:19,790
topic? Because this, this bleeds into one of the

571
00:32:19,790 --> 00:32:22,510
big points that I've been thinking about because I

572
00:32:22,510 --> 00:32:26,630
really am trying to attack this season or this

573
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:30,110
half of the season from an original perspective.

574
00:32:30,110 --> 00:32:33,240
But yeah, here's my question for you, Will.

575
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:33,810
>> Will: Yeah.

576
00:32:34,770 --> 00:32:39,850
>> Sarah : who is the main character of Stranger Things? Main

577
00:32:39,850 --> 00:32:40,530
character.

578
00:32:40,850 --> 00:32:49,170
>> Will: Main character. I think to me it's always, to me

579
00:32:49,170 --> 00:32:50,290
it was originally Mike.

580
00:32:51,010 --> 00:32:59,340
>> Sarah : Who is the story, like, who is the, whose story is

581
00:32:59,340 --> 00:33:01,660
this for a while?

582
00:33:01,820 --> 00:33:04,700
>> Will: So I would say originally I thought it would be

583
00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:07,500
like 11 story. I mean from the earlier seasons.

584
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,200
but it has, it has, it has gotten so diluted at

585
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:22,690
this point. I, I, I, I'm, I don't know if this

586
00:33:22,690 --> 00:33:24,970
still is her show or her story.

587
00:33:26,410 --> 00:33:30,450
>> Sarah : So I, So again, I have not re. Watched any of the

588
00:33:30,450 --> 00:33:33,980
earlier seasons. but I do remember how

589
00:33:33,980 --> 00:33:37,990
specifically I felt about 11 in, the first season.

590
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:39,110
>> Will: Yeah.

591
00:33:39,670 --> 00:33:44,560
>> Sarah : But what made it clear to me, in the finale, and

592
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,149
why the show ends the way it does? Because it was

593
00:33:47,149 --> 00:33:49,549
never eleven's eleven's story. It was always

594
00:33:49,549 --> 00:33:50,229
Mike's story.

595
00:33:50,709 --> 00:33:51,189
>> Will: Yeah.

596
00:33:51,589 --> 00:33:54,229
>> Sarah : Where has Mike been for five seasons?

597
00:33:54,949 --> 00:33:57,789
>> Will: Yeah, and that's why I said Mike. Because the

598
00:33:57,789 --> 00:33:59,149
first time, you know, when you first asked me the

599
00:33:59,149 --> 00:34:00,469
question, I was like, well, I think it's Mike's

600
00:34:00,469 --> 00:34:03,629
story. And then they do, you know, they ham

601
00:34:03,629 --> 00:34:06,229
handedly like, you know, get it back to him.

602
00:34:08,709 --> 00:34:11,709
>> Sarah : Like he, Sorry, I just, I just want to get into

603
00:34:11,709 --> 00:34:16,959
this because, because you give like you introduce

604
00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:21,290
11. 11 is a part of this team only via, Mike.

605
00:34:21,930 --> 00:34:22,410
>> Will: Yeah.

606
00:34:22,410 --> 00:34:26,530
>> Sarah : Okay. She, and then because of her, because of

607
00:34:26,530 --> 00:34:29,290
everything they do with her connection with the,

608
00:34:30,090 --> 00:34:34,330
with the Upside down, with Vecna, with the Flav.

609
00:34:34,410 --> 00:34:38,250
Like all of that, all of a sudden you have a whole

610
00:34:38,250 --> 00:34:41,290
separate 11 storyline. And a lot of Chris

611
00:34:41,321 --> 00:34:45,721
criticism over the seasons has been like, 11 is

612
00:34:45,721 --> 00:34:48,841
removed from the central characters. Well, yeah,

613
00:34:49,401 --> 00:34:53,641
they've been doing that for a while. Yeah. And so

614
00:34:53,641 --> 00:34:57,321
why she's off on her own adventure. Then you have

615
00:34:57,321 --> 00:35:05,001
Will who was, was a very, was a, a plot point in

616
00:35:05,001 --> 00:35:09,171
season one because he goes missing. Yeah. fast

617
00:35:09,171 --> 00:35:12,171
forward. Because nothing happens interesting

618
00:35:12,171 --> 00:35:16,011
happens to Will since that then, then you, then we

619
00:35:16,011 --> 00:35:19,611
go into season five. And again, I'm gonna, I just

620
00:35:19,611 --> 00:35:22,251
want to caveat that last statement. As someone

621
00:35:22,251 --> 00:35:25,011
who's never like gone back and really re Watched

622
00:35:25,011 --> 00:35:27,491
the previous seasons, I'm sure people who have

623
00:35:27,491 --> 00:35:30,251
will tell me otherwise. And I'm open to that

624
00:35:30,251 --> 00:35:32,851
criticism because I fully know that I'm not the

625
00:35:32,851 --> 00:35:35,061
most knowledgeable about this story or this

626
00:35:35,061 --> 00:35:37,941
universe. But then we go fast forward and Then he

627
00:35:37,941 --> 00:35:42,461
becomes the Sorcerer. The finale doesn't work for

628
00:35:42,461 --> 00:35:46,341
me for a few different reasons, but primarily

629
00:35:46,581 --> 00:35:50,821
there is no explanation about why does he become

630
00:35:50,821 --> 00:35:54,741
the Sorcerer. Also, when the heck are we going to

631
00:35:54,741 --> 00:35:57,301
get an explanation for why Will was taken in

632
00:35:57,301 --> 00:36:01,891
season one? And no, do not tell me. Well, Vecna

633
00:36:01,891 --> 00:36:05,411
already explained that, Sarah. Because children's

634
00:36:05,411 --> 00:36:08,051
mind are weak. No, no, no. That does not count.

635
00:36:08,371 --> 00:36:11,731
That explains why he was taking children in the

636
00:36:11,731 --> 00:36:16,251
fifth season. Okay, how many years. What has it

637
00:36:16,251 --> 00:36:19,291
been since he took Will? Are you telling me that

638
00:36:19,291 --> 00:36:23,611
he took Will and somehow for years he's been

639
00:36:23,611 --> 00:36:27,221
unable to kidnap all of those other. Other

640
00:36:27,221 --> 00:36:31,061
children? I. I don't understand why Will was ever

641
00:36:31,061 --> 00:36:31,421
taken.

642
00:36:33,021 --> 00:36:36,821
>> Will: Yeah, I mean, I think. See, and this is where I

643
00:36:36,821 --> 00:36:38,981
know the. I know the Duffers said they. That

644
00:36:38,981 --> 00:36:42,061
they've had this all mapped out, but to me, the.

645
00:36:43,181 --> 00:36:48,021
To me the Vecna of it all was like, you know what

646
00:36:48,021 --> 00:36:53,661
I. You know, prior to. To Vecna's introduction. I

647
00:36:53,661 --> 00:36:56,101
mean to me the Mind Flayer was always the. The

648
00:36:56,101 --> 00:36:58,751
primary antagonist.

649
00:37:00,181 --> 00:37:03,861
>> Will: And. And. And then I think you know, thinking

650
00:37:03,861 --> 00:37:07,101
through the earlier seasons and I haven't. I

651
00:37:07,101 --> 00:37:10,981
haven't done a full re watch I mean either. But I

652
00:37:10,981 --> 00:37:12,981
mean. But I do like this. You know, but this show,

653
00:37:13,141 --> 00:37:18,721
it is one of those shows that I've always do. I

654
00:37:18,721 --> 00:37:21,961
love it. No, but is it, but is it one of those

655
00:37:21,961 --> 00:37:26,251
shows that definitely is a. Stays in your

656
00:37:26,251 --> 00:37:28,691
consciousness in a sense as far as like is

657
00:37:28,691 --> 00:37:31,811
memorable? Yes. I mean, yeah. I mean it is. And,

658
00:37:32,371 --> 00:37:36,281
and. And so I do the, the mod. After they defeated

659
00:37:36,281 --> 00:37:39,041
the Mind Flayer early, you know, I guess season

660
00:37:39,041 --> 00:37:40,841
three, they were like okay, we got to do something

661
00:37:40,841 --> 00:37:43,921
here. So they introduced back nine season season

662
00:37:43,921 --> 00:37:51,771
four. And also. And, and and the other You know,

663
00:37:51,771 --> 00:37:53,491
they also had the stage place which I remember

664
00:37:53,491 --> 00:37:56,491
like actually posting a. A You know, on our

665
00:37:56,491 --> 00:37:59,331
socials whenever this play was in New York and

666
00:37:59,331 --> 00:38:04,841
London. and. And I think you know, you know how

667
00:38:05,081 --> 00:38:08,401
you remember we used. I used to. You joke with me

668
00:38:08,401 --> 00:38:11,221
about like When we were talking about Star wars

669
00:38:11,221 --> 00:38:14,621
and like and Star wars having the reference books,

670
00:38:14,621 --> 00:38:18,871
you know, for. For things that have that try to

671
00:38:18,871 --> 00:38:21,151
explain things that have you know, that happen in

672
00:38:21,151 --> 00:38:24,391
universe as far as we see on the screen. And it's

673
00:38:24,391 --> 00:38:26,831
basically, you know, the Duffers made the same

674
00:38:26,831 --> 00:38:29,631
mistake in my opinion by doing this stay show

675
00:38:30,671 --> 00:38:33,631
introducing like Henry's backstory and. And why

676
00:38:33,631 --> 00:38:40,881
the mind. You know, Mind Flayer is. Is key to you

677
00:38:40,881 --> 00:38:42,841
know, explaining the things that are happening in.

678
00:38:42,921 --> 00:38:48,081
In this season. Because, you know, unless you saw

679
00:38:48,081 --> 00:38:52,301
the stage show, it was kind of divorced from,

680
00:38:52,301 --> 00:38:55,381
like, it's. You don't. You don't. You don't have

681
00:38:55,381 --> 00:38:55,661
that.

682
00:38:55,901 --> 00:38:58,741
>> Sarah : This, like, they explain the. They explain

683
00:38:58,741 --> 00:39:00,141
everything in the stage show.

684
00:39:00,381 --> 00:39:03,701
>> Will: They explain some of the Henry. Henry's backstory

685
00:39:03,701 --> 00:39:04,781
in the stage show.

686
00:39:05,771 --> 00:39:08,891
>> Sarah : Okay. Do they explain why. Why and how Will

687
00:39:08,891 --> 00:39:10,011
becomes Sorcerer?

688
00:39:10,491 --> 00:39:13,531
>> Will: No, but they don't know. The state show is

689
00:39:13,531 --> 00:39:15,851
completely independent. It's like a prequel.

690
00:39:16,331 --> 00:39:20,561
>> Sarah : Okay. Okay. Yeah, dude, do. Okay, well, yeah,

691
00:39:20,561 --> 00:39:23,441
because. Because for a moment, I was just like,

692
00:39:23,601 --> 00:39:26,481
are you kidding me? Like, they basically did

693
00:39:26,481 --> 00:39:30,401
Will's story out of the actual show itself. Wow.

694
00:39:30,401 --> 00:39:32,881
>> Will: Yeah. But. But I bring y'. All. I bring. I bring

695
00:39:32,881 --> 00:39:36,011
all that up to. To the point that, you know,

696
00:39:36,011 --> 00:39:39,731
thinking back. You know, thinking back to volume

697
00:39:39,731 --> 00:39:43,331
one of season five, it feels like they were doing,

698
00:39:43,331 --> 00:39:45,811
like a retcon at the beginning.

699
00:39:46,531 --> 00:39:47,011
>> Sarah : Yeah.

700
00:39:48,451 --> 00:39:54,431
>> Will: To. To. To, explain what. Why Ve and the m. And

701
00:39:54,431 --> 00:39:58,831
the Mind Flayer selected him on November 6, 1984.

702
00:39:59,971 --> 00:40:03,491
>> Sarah : But then why. Why. Why. Why in 1984?

703
00:40:04,691 --> 00:40:06,811
>> Will: Well, because that was the other thing, too. So in

704
00:40:06,811 --> 00:40:11,321
the stage show on, November 6th in 1959 or

705
00:40:11,321 --> 00:40:14,561
whatever that that was. That was the date that,

706
00:40:15,821 --> 00:40:20,471
That Henry, I guess encountered a guy in the cave.

707
00:40:21,111 --> 00:40:23,671
>> Sarah : Okay, that's great. So why select Will?

708
00:40:25,041 --> 00:40:28,161
>> Will: I will just happen to be the unfortunate kid that.

709
00:40:28,481 --> 00:40:29,441
>> Sarah : That hasn't.

710
00:40:30,001 --> 00:40:33,961
>> Will: Yeah, I don't think. Yeah. I'm trying to remember

711
00:40:33,961 --> 00:40:35,441
if there's anything. I don't know if it was ever

712
00:40:35,441 --> 00:40:37,681
addressed in universe and maybe. And listeners,

713
00:40:37,681 --> 00:40:40,971
if. If, we're blanking and just drop. Drop in the

714
00:40:40,971 --> 00:40:43,931
comments or. Or on social, let us know what we.

715
00:40:43,931 --> 00:40:46,811
What we're missing here. I. I don't remember. I

716
00:40:46,811 --> 00:40:47,691
don't know if it's ever been.

717
00:40:48,171 --> 00:40:50,571
>> Sarah : I will die on this hill. It has not been

718
00:40:50,571 --> 00:40:55,211
mentioned. Yeah, I. I swear. And. And if you then

719
00:40:55,211 --> 00:41:00,131
tell me it was mentioned in this book or this.

720
00:41:00,531 --> 00:41:04,571
Whatever. That's not. No, no, no, no. I'm looking

721
00:41:04,571 --> 00:41:07,651
at this straight from the TV seasons itself.

722
00:41:07,651 --> 00:41:08,731
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

723
00:41:08,731 --> 00:41:12,371
>> Sarah : You are telling a story that for the past 10

724
00:41:12,371 --> 00:41:17,821
years, has lived in pop culture. Okay. And you're

725
00:41:17,821 --> 00:41:23,221
not going to explain the. The real. And. And by

726
00:41:23,221 --> 00:41:27,501
explain. I don't want any of these answers. I need

727
00:41:27,581 --> 00:41:34,301
to understand what. What caused Henry or Vecna or

728
00:41:34,301 --> 00:41:38,941
whoever you want to say the Big Bad was to. To

729
00:41:38,941 --> 00:41:43,741
kidnap Will or any other kid on this random. Well,

730
00:41:43,901 --> 00:41:46,901
I guess as you explained, November 6th is not

731
00:41:46,901 --> 00:41:51,421
random, but on this random year, because there was

732
00:41:51,421 --> 00:41:53,381
a lot of years in between. That's the last

733
00:41:53,381 --> 00:41:57,261
November 6th. So. And then what was the intent

734
00:41:57,581 --> 00:42:03,021
thereafter? Like, I. I feel like there was a.

735
00:42:03,741 --> 00:42:08,501
Like, we are supposed to believe that what,

736
00:42:08,781 --> 00:42:12,061
happens in season five with the kids and with the

737
00:42:12,061 --> 00:42:15,471
vanishing of Holly Wheeler was originally supposed

738
00:42:15,471 --> 00:42:19,831
to happen way back when Will was taken, but

739
00:42:19,911 --> 00:42:25,031
somehow that plan got diverged. But m. See there.

740
00:42:25,111 --> 00:42:28,511
Nobody ever explains why or how that got diverged

741
00:42:28,511 --> 00:42:31,791
because, I mean, kids started going really quickly

742
00:42:31,791 --> 00:42:36,311
afterwards. So, I don't know between that and the

743
00:42:36,311 --> 00:42:37,431
military presence.

744
00:42:38,151 --> 00:42:38,631
>> Will: Yeah.

745
00:42:38,951 --> 00:42:42,191
>> Sarah : Yeah. Which is a big thing that a lot of people

746
00:42:42,191 --> 00:42:43,031
have talked about.

747
00:42:43,581 --> 00:42:45,901
>> Will: Yeah. Well, I think the last thing. Last point on

748
00:42:45,901 --> 00:42:49,341
Will, I don't. So I think. And I just. While we

749
00:42:49,341 --> 00:42:51,101
were. While we were talking, I just, you know,

750
00:42:51,421 --> 00:42:55,621
just did a quick search. I mean, basically, it

751
00:42:55,621 --> 00:42:58,381
essentially comes down to Will was basically at

752
00:42:58,381 --> 00:43:00,541
the wrong place at the wrong time. We. Whenever

753
00:43:00,941 --> 00:43:05,021
we. We. That when he was initially abducted,

754
00:43:06,061 --> 00:43:07,341
apparently he wasn't.

755
00:43:07,421 --> 00:43:09,901
>> Sarah : Because he becomes a sorcerer in the fifth season.

756
00:43:10,351 --> 00:43:13,871
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, but. But. But. But this is where. This

757
00:43:13,871 --> 00:43:16,431
is. Maybe this is kind of the whole thing also

758
00:43:16,431 --> 00:43:18,271
where they just kind of retconned things, because,

759
00:43:18,911 --> 00:43:22,071
you know, to your earlier discussion when we were

760
00:43:22,071 --> 00:43:24,751
about who was the central character, they

761
00:43:24,751 --> 00:43:26,871
realized. I mean, you. You. I think we even said

762
00:43:26,871 --> 00:43:29,471
it tonight. I mean, Will really wasn't much of a,

763
00:43:29,471 --> 00:43:32,151
Other than, you know, he was a MacGuffin, and it

764
00:43:32,151 --> 00:43:33,031
was early seasons.

765
00:43:33,111 --> 00:43:35,391
>> Sarah : I don't even think he's a central character. He.

766
00:43:35,391 --> 00:43:36,631
He's a plot device.

767
00:43:37,201 --> 00:43:37,801
>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

768
00:43:37,801 --> 00:43:40,481
>> Sarah : Like, we're. We need somebody else to have powers.

769
00:43:40,481 --> 00:43:42,481
Well, the only other person who's been in contact

770
00:43:42,561 --> 00:43:46,001
with Will, Henry, or whatever you want to say is.

771
00:43:46,081 --> 00:43:51,961
Is. Or Henry and Vecna is. Is Will. So we're gonna

772
00:43:51,961 --> 00:43:54,561
do this thing where he's a sorcerer. They also.

773
00:43:55,361 --> 00:43:58,321
I'm sorry. You really got to get me off this

774
00:43:58,321 --> 00:44:01,881
point. But the sorcerer thing has become so

775
00:44:01,881 --> 00:44:07,221
diluted for me because in the end, there's no

776
00:44:07,221 --> 00:44:12,221
explanation as. Okay, so. So why and how does he

777
00:44:12,221 --> 00:44:15,061
become the sorcerer? Is it. It's. So it's through

778
00:44:15,701 --> 00:44:19,141
something that Vecna does to him and gives him.

779
00:44:19,941 --> 00:44:24,581
But you would think that Becca would know the

780
00:44:24,581 --> 00:44:27,581
consequence of doing that to Will and allowing him

781
00:44:27,581 --> 00:44:33,281
to live. So it just. It seems weird that he's

782
00:44:33,281 --> 00:44:37,441
instilled this power because I guess the intention

783
00:44:37,441 --> 00:44:41,241
was for him to spy. It doesn't make sense to me.

784
00:44:41,481 --> 00:44:44,921
Like, the more I think about it, the more it just

785
00:44:44,921 --> 00:44:49,121
does not. It's so thin, and there's still a Lack

786
00:44:49,121 --> 00:44:51,401
of explanation. I'm just like, I don't.

787
00:44:51,721 --> 00:44:52,161
>> Will: Yeah.

788
00:44:52,161 --> 00:44:53,001
>> Sarah : I don't know.

789
00:44:54,041 --> 00:44:58,371
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think at the end of the day, I

790
00:44:58,371 --> 00:45:01,691
think it was a very thin. It was a very thin plot

791
00:45:01,691 --> 00:45:04,771
point to begin with. And I honestly think it just

792
00:45:04,771 --> 00:45:10,011
kinda. We're. I think we're over. I think we're

793
00:45:10,171 --> 00:45:13,931
diving it into it way too deep than. Than what the

794
00:45:13,931 --> 00:45:16,451
Duffers intended for viewers to do. This is sort

795
00:45:16,451 --> 00:45:19,331
of like, okay, take our work. Take what you see on

796
00:45:19,331 --> 00:45:25,031
the screen as loose as. As ambiguous and not

797
00:45:25,511 --> 00:45:31,191
fully, you know, fleshed out as it should be, that

798
00:45:31,191 --> 00:45:32,911
basically Will's at the wrong place, the wrong

799
00:45:32,911 --> 00:45:35,951
time. Later we get retconned to realize that, you

800
00:45:35,951 --> 00:45:38,951
know, Vecna saw that he was very weak. And again,

801
00:45:38,921 --> 00:45:41,831
going back to our discussion about him and his

802
00:45:41,831 --> 00:45:48,581
homosexuality, they, you know, again, this is a

803
00:45:48,741 --> 00:45:51,261
problem with what. Problem with what we saw in

804
00:45:51,261 --> 00:45:55,601
season five is, you know, they try to make it

805
00:45:55,601 --> 00:45:57,761
like, you know, the fear and all that kind of

806
00:45:57,761 --> 00:46:00,841
stuff over. Over overtakes Will and, and then. And

807
00:46:00,841 --> 00:46:04,601
then we don't get real good resolution to it as

808
00:46:04,601 --> 00:46:06,401
far as, like, you make it like this is going to be

809
00:46:06,401 --> 00:46:10,081
a big point, but then they don't. Well, they do in

810
00:46:10,081 --> 00:46:11,641
episode four, but it should have made it. It

811
00:46:11,641 --> 00:46:13,681
should have made him, you know, really become the

812
00:46:13,681 --> 00:46:16,721
full powerful sorcerer in episodes seven or eight,

813
00:46:17,261 --> 00:46:21,221
you know. and. And it's just. This is very poorly

814
00:46:21,221 --> 00:46:22,781
constructed at the end of the day.

815
00:46:25,531 --> 00:46:28,971
>> Sarah : Okay, so just to close that point up. Yeah, yeah,

816
00:46:28,971 --> 00:46:32,331
yeah, that. That's fine. That's a great summary

817
00:46:32,331 --> 00:46:34,571
of. Of everything we just discussed.

818
00:46:34,531 --> 00:46:35,091
>> Will: Yeah.

819
00:46:35,331 --> 00:46:39,971
>> Sarah : Except nothing. Yeah, yeah. Is it's still.

820
00:46:40,051 --> 00:46:42,221
>> Will: I. Yeah, no, I mean, I don't think.

821
00:46:42,221 --> 00:46:46,781
>> Sarah : Yeah, so. So I guess at the end of the day, the.

822
00:46:46,781 --> 00:46:50,261
The real question is, do you think L is alive or

823
00:46:50,261 --> 00:46:50,621
dead?

824
00:46:52,301 --> 00:46:59,701
>> Will: I. I've been going back and forth on this. I. I

825
00:46:59,701 --> 00:47:02,141
think given the way they have structured this show

826
00:47:02,381 --> 00:47:04,861
and there's been. And that's the other thing that

827
00:47:04,861 --> 00:47:08,321
really bothered me. Short answer is, yeah, she's

828
00:47:08,321 --> 00:47:12,481
alive. And. And yeah, what do you. What about you?

829
00:47:12,481 --> 00:47:14,761
And then we can go into discussions as far as why

830
00:47:15,001 --> 00:47:18,801
we think about our respective thoughts on. On the

831
00:47:18,801 --> 00:47:19,081
matter.

832
00:47:22,171 --> 00:47:26,891
>> Sarah : so I was talking to my brother who, who has

833
00:47:26,891 --> 00:47:30,171
watched. He. By the time he texted me to see if

834
00:47:30,171 --> 00:47:33,091
I'd watched the finale, he'd already re. Watched

835
00:47:33,091 --> 00:47:37,571
it like twice. So, he. He's rewatched all the

836
00:47:37,571 --> 00:47:41,371
seasons multiple times, Knows way, way a lot. A

837
00:47:41,371 --> 00:47:43,731
lot more than mine. And he Couldn't even explain

838
00:47:43,731 --> 00:47:46,931
the mic thing to me. And he. And he. He, like,

839
00:47:46,931 --> 00:47:50,291
kind of was like, yeah, yeah, you kind of. I. I

840
00:47:50,291 --> 00:47:52,291
see your point. And I'm like, that's. That's

841
00:47:52,291 --> 00:47:54,811
great. But. But it didn't take away any of his

842
00:47:54,811 --> 00:47:58,171
enjoyment of the show itself or. Which. Which I

843
00:47:58,171 --> 00:48:01,251
think is important because I do. I say all my

844
00:48:01,251 --> 00:48:06,011
criticism with the asterisks that I am not a

845
00:48:06,011 --> 00:48:12,621
person who leans into this genre. and. And so why

846
00:48:12,621 --> 00:48:16,061
I preface my thoughts about is alive or dead with

847
00:48:16,061 --> 00:48:20,471
that is because, to me, coming after I finished

848
00:48:20,471 --> 00:48:22,551
watching the finale, I was like, oh, she's alive.

849
00:48:23,511 --> 00:48:27,071
I was like, okay, that's. That's one way to kill

850
00:48:27,071 --> 00:48:29,031
her and then not kill her at all.

851
00:48:29,601 --> 00:48:30,001
>> Will: Yep.

852
00:48:30,081 --> 00:48:33,471
>> Sarah : Then, Then I started talking to my brother about

853
00:48:33,471 --> 00:48:37,581
it. And, And also, I don't like that whole idea

854
00:48:37,581 --> 00:48:40,661
either, but that's a whole other. Other point. but

855
00:48:40,661 --> 00:48:43,020
when I was talking to my brother about it, he was

856
00:48:43,020 --> 00:48:45,461
bringing up all of the theories, and I was like,

857
00:48:45,461 --> 00:48:48,061
oh, so we're actually supposed to believe, like,

858
00:48:48,061 --> 00:48:52,421
there is a possibility that she did die? Like, oh,

859
00:48:52,841 --> 00:48:56,041
oh, I. I thought we was, pretty straightforward.

860
00:48:56,041 --> 00:48:58,441
Like, why the heck would you include that? And

861
00:48:58,441 --> 00:49:00,521
then I was listening to something before we got on

862
00:49:00,521 --> 00:49:04,441
Tonight again, by people who. Who dearly love this

863
00:49:04,441 --> 00:49:13,721
show and it. And I do, if I set aside some of my

864
00:49:13,721 --> 00:49:19,441
opinions about this ending, I do think this is the

865
00:49:19,521 --> 00:49:22,321
most honest thing you could do with a show. Show

866
00:49:22,321 --> 00:49:26,401
that really is a DND game.

867
00:49:27,041 --> 00:49:27,521
>> Will: Yeah.

868
00:49:27,921 --> 00:49:32,801
>> Sarah : So that being said, they could have executed this

869
00:49:33,121 --> 00:49:39,441
so much better. And why I say that is because this

870
00:49:39,441 --> 00:49:42,241
is what, again, goes back to that question I

871
00:49:42,241 --> 00:49:44,561
raised to you. Who's the main character of this

872
00:49:44,561 --> 00:49:47,991
story? And this is my biggest, one of my big

873
00:49:47,991 --> 00:49:51,751
issues with. With the finale itself. This should

874
00:49:51,751 --> 00:49:56,631
have never been Mike's story. Mike got sidelined

875
00:49:56,951 --> 00:49:59,471
so quickly. And by sideline, I mean just from a

876
00:49:59,471 --> 00:50:02,231
viewer perspective, a general viewer. Elle has

877
00:50:02,231 --> 00:50:06,191
powers much more interesting. And then there's

878
00:50:06,191 --> 00:50:09,951
also this lovely relationship with Hopper and

879
00:50:09,951 --> 00:50:16,951
Elle. So. So here's what pisses me off is there's

880
00:50:16,951 --> 00:50:20,951
a whole scene with Hopper on a bench, with Mike on

881
00:50:20,951 --> 00:50:24,621
a bench talking about acceptance. At, what point

882
00:50:24,701 --> 00:50:28,261
was Mike gonna come up with this? Like, I saw the

883
00:50:28,261 --> 00:50:31,341
cameras. I pieced it together also. It took him 18

884
00:50:31,341 --> 00:50:34,621
months to do this, by the way. Took him 18 months.

885
00:50:34,781 --> 00:50:38,701
We're led to believe that. To finally have this

886
00:50:38,701 --> 00:50:41,581
realization, oh, there's a. There's a chance she's

887
00:50:41,581 --> 00:50:45,681
still alive, and. And map it all out, like, A

888
00:50:45,681 --> 00:50:50,111
dungeon master. And. And, So it took him 18

889
00:50:50,111 --> 00:50:54,271
months, but he doesn't tell Hopper. Also, this

890
00:50:54,271 --> 00:50:58,351
plan is never communicated with Hopper. Like, I

891
00:50:58,511 --> 00:51:01,311
again, watched the finale and fully was like, oh,

892
00:51:01,311 --> 00:51:06,591
she's so alive. Which. Which. Okay, that's. It's

893
00:51:06,591 --> 00:51:10,751
okay from a DND perspective and all of that. But

894
00:51:11,151 --> 00:51:15,431
why the. Didn't we get a resolution with Hopper

895
00:51:15,431 --> 00:51:17,951
and Elle then? There were so many scenes this

896
00:51:17,951 --> 00:51:21,391
season about, like, Hopper not wanting to give up

897
00:51:21,391 --> 00:51:28,031
on Elle, and then if. If Elle figured out a way

898
00:51:28,911 --> 00:51:34,431
to. To live but not put the people she loves in

899
00:51:34,431 --> 00:51:39,921
danger, well, she. She. She had to have. And my

900
00:51:39,921 --> 00:51:42,081
brother was trying to convince me, like, oh,

901
00:51:42,081 --> 00:51:43,401
Hopper totally knew.

902
00:51:44,041 --> 00:51:48,641
>> Will: And I'm like, well, see, I. I'm glad you put that.

903
00:51:48,641 --> 00:51:50,641
You know, that's the one angle I haven't heard

904
00:51:50,641 --> 00:51:56,961
people talk about. The Hopper focusing on the. You

905
00:51:56,961 --> 00:51:58,931
know, You know, all the theories have been focus.

906
00:51:59,731 --> 00:52:02,561
Focusing on, you know, Mike. You know, the. How

907
00:52:02,561 --> 00:52:04,801
Mike pieced it together, you know, and that's. To

908
00:52:04,801 --> 00:52:10,361
me, it was sort of like the. You know, for me, it

909
00:52:10,361 --> 00:52:14,201
was like he. He literally did figure it out. That

910
00:52:14,201 --> 00:52:17,441
moment there at the graduation, whenever, with the

911
00:52:17,441 --> 00:52:20,761
speakers and stuff. To me, that. That was. That's

912
00:52:20,761 --> 00:52:23,681
how. That's. That for me, watching it real time

913
00:52:24,161 --> 00:52:27,281
before I even got into all the theory spirals and

914
00:52:27,281 --> 00:52:33,791
all that kind of stuff. it. You know, that. Him

915
00:52:33,791 --> 00:52:36,191
figuring, you know, piecing it together, their

916
00:52:36,431 --> 00:52:39,791
graduation and then, you know, relaying it to his

917
00:52:39,791 --> 00:52:44,071
friends, I looked at it like, okay, yeah, that.

918
00:52:44,071 --> 00:52:50,311
That. Who. Whether or not he knew that Kali was

919
00:52:50,311 --> 00:52:53,831
alive or not in the Upside down, to. To. To do the

920
00:52:53,831 --> 00:52:57,761
projection or not in universe, with all the

921
00:52:57,761 --> 00:53:00,961
factors, it made sense. It makes sense, right? If

922
00:53:00,961 --> 00:53:04,481
you choose to. For her to be alive. Right. Yeah.

923
00:53:04,481 --> 00:53:07,641
But also. But thematically, to your point about

924
00:53:07,641 --> 00:53:13,001
Hopper, why. I'm okay if they don't. I think they

925
00:53:13,001 --> 00:53:19,601
had. They had their moment of. Of letting go there

926
00:53:19,601 --> 00:53:22,391
in the Upside down when she did the. The. The

927
00:53:22,391 --> 00:53:26,151
Mario thing as far as jumping up to the abyss. So

928
00:53:26,151 --> 00:53:28,311
I don't. I think they. That that was the moment

929
00:53:28,311 --> 00:53:31,951
for, you know, after Vecna, like, you know, with

930
00:53:31,951 --> 00:53:34,311
Hopper's mind, you know, to shoot the tank and

931
00:53:34,311 --> 00:53:37,551
everything. And then, And then she has that moment

932
00:53:37,551 --> 00:53:40,311
with him. Like, look, I'm not. I'm not your Sarah,

933
00:53:41,031 --> 00:53:45,351
and you need to let. Yeah. So to me, I don't. I.

934
00:53:45,511 --> 00:53:48,701
That was, to me, where it's like, I would have

935
00:53:48,701 --> 00:53:50,461
been pissed if they had done some kind of thing

936
00:53:50,461 --> 00:53:55,681
after the fact between Hopper and L. Ah.

937
00:53:55,741 --> 00:54:00,801
>> Sarah : I'M still pissed. you. You brought up something.

938
00:54:01,041 --> 00:54:05,921
Okay, are we. Are we told. Is there a scene at all

939
00:54:05,921 --> 00:54:09,441
this season that explains to Mike about those.

940
00:54:09,521 --> 00:54:12,251
That equipment, and what it does to Ellen, her

941
00:54:12,251 --> 00:54:12,731
powers?

942
00:54:13,301 --> 00:54:15,381
>> Will: Oh, yeah. I mean, they all. Yeah. I mean, it's.

943
00:54:15,381 --> 00:54:17,941
Yeah, because it happened in the Volume one,

944
00:54:17,941 --> 00:54:19,781
whenever they were having the big fight there with

945
00:54:19,781 --> 00:54:22,021
the army. I mean, so that they always know.

946
00:54:22,341 --> 00:54:24,541
>> Sarah : That's what. That's what I thought. I just wanted

947
00:54:24,541 --> 00:54:27,531
confirmation about it. because then while you were

948
00:54:27,531 --> 00:54:29,211
talking, I was thinking, I was like, wait a

949
00:54:29,211 --> 00:54:38,741
second. Because a part of me. I. I. One of the

950
00:54:38,741 --> 00:54:43,421
reasons why this show worked for me and I stood.

951
00:54:43,421 --> 00:54:46,141
Stood on it, was because of the. The relationship

952
00:54:46,221 --> 00:54:47,901
between Hopper and Al.

953
00:54:48,381 --> 00:54:48,941
>> Will: Yeah.

954
00:54:50,791 --> 00:54:53,911
>> Sarah : I don't feel I got enough resolution about it.

955
00:54:54,231 --> 00:54:57,231
And. And, yes, you're right. They have that moment

956
00:54:57,231 --> 00:54:59,471
where it's like, I'm not Sarah. That's great.

957
00:54:59,471 --> 00:55:02,391
That's great. He let you go do your big battle.

958
00:55:02,391 --> 00:55:05,671
You won't. And then. Yeah. You had this other

959
00:55:05,671 --> 00:55:08,831
plan, though. Okay. Theoretically, you have this

960
00:55:08,831 --> 00:55:11,831
other plan, though, because there was another

961
00:55:11,831 --> 00:55:14,871
problem that needed to be solved. I just.

962
00:55:15,991 --> 00:55:21,391
Considering what Elle knows about Sarah, you.

963
00:55:21,391 --> 00:55:25,231
You're. You're really gonna, like, leave him? I

964
00:55:25,231 --> 00:55:28,271
don't care about Mike. Yeah, but you're really

965
00:55:28,271 --> 00:55:31,861
gonna leave Hopper. See, and this is. This is.

966
00:55:31,861 --> 00:55:34,581
Again, this is also why this makes me upset.

967
00:55:34,581 --> 00:55:39,021
Hopper's way too happy in the epilogue. Okay. He's

968
00:55:39,021 --> 00:55:43,401
way too happy. He moved on too quickly. Yeah.

969
00:55:43,401 --> 00:55:47,721
Yeah. It's been two years. The time. Time is like

970
00:55:47,801 --> 00:55:51,161
a year is like 16 years in this world. Okay.

971
00:55:51,241 --> 00:55:52,121
>> Will: True. Yeah.

972
00:55:53,161 --> 00:56:01,891
>> Sarah : So it just. It doesn't. It doesn't feel. I don't

973
00:56:01,891 --> 00:56:05,291
know how to explain it. I. I just. All I can say,

974
00:56:05,291 --> 00:56:08,771
really, about this is I didn't really get the

975
00:56:08,771 --> 00:56:14,051
resolution between Hopper and Elle the way I

976
00:56:14,051 --> 00:56:17,781
wanted to. I feel like they. They. There was a,

977
00:56:17,781 --> 00:56:20,431
There was so much Ellen Hopper this season in

978
00:56:20,431 --> 00:56:20,751
particular.

979
00:56:21,691 --> 00:56:21,931
>> Will: Yeah.

980
00:56:21,931 --> 00:56:25,611
>> Sarah : That then. Then they swapped out Hopper for Mike

981
00:56:25,611 --> 00:56:33,091
at the very end. I'm like, okay, okay. I. I know

982
00:56:33,091 --> 00:56:35,451
they're together and they really like each other,

983
00:56:35,611 --> 00:56:40,491
but, like, this is maybe one of five scenes for an

984
00:56:40,491 --> 00:56:43,371
entire season we've seen between these two. Like,

985
00:56:43,611 --> 00:56:50,431
I. I just. I don't. Again, I feel like. I feel

986
00:56:50,431 --> 00:56:53,751
like it's complete BS when the duffer says, we

987
00:56:53,751 --> 00:56:56,671
brothers say we have this all planned out because

988
00:56:56,831 --> 00:56:59,951
maybe they had overall points and, like, we're

989
00:56:59,951 --> 00:57:02,511
gonna do this this season, this. But there.

990
00:57:02,591 --> 00:57:02,991
>> Will: There.

991
00:57:03,151 --> 00:57:07,591
>> Sarah : There's just too much where I'm like, that Kind of

992
00:57:07,591 --> 00:57:10,631
comes out of left field. You kind of went off the

993
00:57:10,631 --> 00:57:13,231
track and then. And then you just. You.

994
00:57:14,111 --> 00:57:14,511
>> Will: You.

995
00:57:14,831 --> 00:57:17,951
>> Sarah : Yeah, just. Anyway, but you go, yeah.

996
00:57:17,951 --> 00:57:20,551
>> Will: No, Well, I think you're. I mean, I think. Well, I

997
00:57:20,551 --> 00:57:22,831
think, you know, they. They probably, you know,

998
00:57:22,831 --> 00:57:25,791
they probably had an outline of what they had

999
00:57:26,191 --> 00:57:27,911
built out. I mean, even, you know, because even,

1000
00:57:27,911 --> 00:57:30,071
you know, even George Lucas didn't have, like, the

1001
00:57:30,071 --> 00:57:33,391
full, like, you know, thing built out with Star

1002
00:57:33,391 --> 00:57:35,711
Wars. So you may have like a sort of, you know,

1003
00:57:35,711 --> 00:57:38,191
thumbnail as far as, like, here's where we want to

1004
00:57:38,191 --> 00:57:40,831
go with this. But as, you know, but as the seasons

1005
00:57:40,831 --> 00:57:44,181
went on and, you know, and. And Netflix was like,

1006
00:57:44,181 --> 00:57:45,901
you know, because usually Netflix, you only get

1007
00:57:45,901 --> 00:57:48,901
like a year or two. If, you know. A year. Two. Two

1008
00:57:48,901 --> 00:57:50,901
at the most. But, you know, that's, you know, this

1009
00:57:50,901 --> 00:57:53,261
was a hit, so it was like, oh, we got to build out

1010
00:57:53,261 --> 00:57:58,461
five seasons now. so, you know, we thought we

1011
00:57:58,461 --> 00:58:00,861
touched on this before. I mean, with. With. With

1012
00:58:00,861 --> 00:58:03,541
Will story. I mean, this is the. The whole thing

1013
00:58:03,541 --> 00:58:06,541
is just explode. Exploded. So, yeah, there were a

1014
00:58:06,541 --> 00:58:08,301
lot of, you know, a lot of details and plot points

1015
00:58:08,301 --> 00:58:13,691
that didn't get. Didn't get fully baked. but

1016
00:58:13,691 --> 00:58:16,011
getting to your point about Ellen Hopper and, And

1017
00:58:16,011 --> 00:58:18,131
this is one of. This is what. This was one of the

1018
00:58:18,131 --> 00:58:22,021
storylines that did work for me in the finale. and

1019
00:58:22,021 --> 00:58:25,661
the moments that did work for me, and I won't

1020
00:58:25,661 --> 00:58:28,901
belabor it any too much, but I mean, for me,

1021
00:58:28,901 --> 00:58:31,221
Hopper and Ill had their moment, at least in my.

1022
00:58:31,381 --> 00:58:35,591
In my opinion, with that moment on the roof and

1023
00:58:35,591 --> 00:58:39,211
the upside down. and. And I think. And I think

1024
00:58:39,291 --> 00:58:41,891
moving it forward to the conversation with Mike

1025
00:58:41,891 --> 00:58:44,291
and. And Hopper on the bench. I think that's why

1026
00:58:44,291 --> 00:58:48,371
he was, you know, when he. He gave Mike basically

1027
00:58:48,371 --> 00:58:54,421
the two doors he could go down. I think he, you

1028
00:58:54,421 --> 00:58:58,501
know, he. He. He had that. I don't want to say the

1029
00:58:58,501 --> 00:59:00,261
word closure, because I, you know, just. Just

1030
00:59:00,261 --> 00:59:03,261
personally, I hate that word, when people talk

1031
00:59:03,261 --> 00:59:06,221
about loss, because no one ever. You never. You

1032
00:59:06,221 --> 00:59:08,821
never fully, you know, closure to me, that. That,

1033
00:59:08,821 --> 00:59:10,741
you know, just. I mean, it's been like five years

1034
00:59:10,741 --> 00:59:13,171
of my dad's passing, this. This past December,

1035
00:59:13,171 --> 00:59:17,011
and, you know, you never. That there's, there's,

1036
00:59:17,011 --> 00:59:19,051
there's, you know, you know, I share with you over

1037
00:59:19,051 --> 00:59:22,571
text about how. How I felt about that. And it's

1038
00:59:22,571 --> 00:59:24,651
never like. It's not so much just that it's. The.

1039
00:59:24,651 --> 00:59:27,371
Closure is not the. The word. It's more. You just.

1040
00:59:28,801 --> 00:59:31,501
I got what Hopper was telling Will telling Mike on

1041
00:59:31,501 --> 00:59:33,821
that. On that bench, as far as, like, which. Which

1042
00:59:33,821 --> 00:59:36,301
way can go, I. I really got it just from my own

1043
00:59:36,301 --> 00:59:39,661
personal experience. So I think that's why that

1044
00:59:39,661 --> 00:59:43,861
scene worked for me and was able to, you know, so.

1045
00:59:44,421 --> 00:59:49,081
So I would have felt, I. I would have felt. Even.

1046
00:59:49,321 --> 00:59:51,641
I would have felt cheapened if they had, like,

1047
00:59:51,881 --> 00:59:54,961
forced, you know, they already had copped out

1048
00:59:54,961 --> 00:59:56,781
enough in this show. And that's what I meant, when

1049
00:59:56,781 --> 00:59:59,101
I was saying, you know, why I thought l was alive

1050
00:59:59,101 --> 01:00:01,221
is because just the way they've treated all these,

1051
01:00:01,621 --> 01:00:05,221
all their little special characters. No one's. No,

1052
01:00:05,221 --> 01:00:08,901
you know, they, they have put so much plot armor

1053
01:00:08,901 --> 01:00:12,581
on these folks, and the plot armor for l was. No,

1054
01:00:12,581 --> 01:00:15,221
she can't have her happy ever after with the gang,

1055
01:00:15,381 --> 01:00:19,991
but she can finally get some peace by going, you

1056
01:00:19,991 --> 01:00:21,991
know, finally going off into this mythical. This.

1057
01:00:21,991 --> 01:00:25,031
Into this land that, you know. Yeah. You know, she

1058
01:00:25,031 --> 01:00:27,151
and Micah talked about this place and it was just

1059
01:00:27,151 --> 01:00:29,911
our. It was, you know, for folks who think that l

1060
01:00:29,911 --> 01:00:34,431
survived, you know, this was giving us a vehicle

1061
01:00:34,431 --> 01:00:37,311
of a happy ending. And then for Mike, it was.

1062
01:00:38,111 --> 01:00:40,591
>> Sarah : Were there three waterfalls or two?

1063
01:00:43,501 --> 01:00:45,021
>> Sarah : Because I could have. There were three.

1064
01:00:46,141 --> 01:00:47,181
>> Will: I think there were three.

1065
01:00:47,581 --> 01:00:50,061
>> Sarah : Yeah. That was the other thing that bothered me.

1066
01:00:50,061 --> 01:00:52,541
Not the fact that there were three waterfalls, but

1067
01:00:52,781 --> 01:00:55,821
I was also like. So. So we're supposed to believe

1068
01:00:56,941 --> 01:01:01,621
a girl who is maybe 18, maybe has spent two days

1069
01:01:01,621 --> 01:01:05,381
in school, has no money, no job, but these powers,

1070
01:01:05,381 --> 01:01:09,381
too, but also needs food and energy? She. She made

1071
01:01:09,381 --> 01:01:12,381
it, like, arguably outside of the United States.

1072
01:01:13,101 --> 01:01:17,141
>> Will: Yeah. So listen, logic doesn't. This, again, this

1073
01:01:17,141 --> 01:01:20,101
is, this is, this is, you know, this is. This is

1074
01:01:20,101 --> 01:01:23,061
the place where, like, you know. Yeah, we had the

1075
01:01:23,061 --> 01:01:25,780
big mind player fight. That, that, that, you know,

1076
01:01:25,780 --> 01:01:26,901
that I.

1077
01:01:26,901 --> 01:01:30,061
>> Sarah : I know, I know, but you kind of like.

1078
01:01:30,061 --> 01:01:31,341
>> Will: Yeah, you gotta. Yeah. I mean.

1079
01:01:33,821 --> 01:01:37,481
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You do. You do have to

1080
01:01:37,481 --> 01:01:40,921
suspend disbelief. But. And, and when things are

1081
01:01:40,921 --> 01:01:44,441
written. Well, I do. But when. When there are

1082
01:01:44,441 --> 01:01:47,751
clear, logical, like. Hm.

1083
01:01:48,081 --> 01:01:48,401
>> Will: Yeah.

1084
01:01:48,401 --> 01:01:51,321
>> Sarah : I mean, speaking about, like, choices and what to

1085
01:01:51,321 --> 01:01:54,281
believe, it's like, well, yeah, but I kind of want

1086
01:01:54,281 --> 01:01:56,921
to look at this, like, logically because. Because

1087
01:01:56,921 --> 01:02:00,281
again, the only reason why somebody would start to

1088
01:02:00,281 --> 01:02:03,191
think that is because suddenly you've brought up

1089
01:02:03,191 --> 01:02:05,951
the possibility that this other thing happened.

1090
01:02:06,431 --> 01:02:09,391
It's like, oh, okay, so then I have to think that

1091
01:02:09,391 --> 01:02:12,431
through because you're not going to show me all of

1092
01:02:12,431 --> 01:02:15,111
the ins and outs of that. Just like you're not

1093
01:02:15,111 --> 01:02:18,421
going to show me. and this is going to be my last

1094
01:02:18,421 --> 01:02:21,021
point because I'M kind of tired about talking

1095
01:02:21,021 --> 01:02:24,251
about it. I'm so negative. and I've brought this

1096
01:02:24,251 --> 01:02:28,111
up in other things, but specifically with, with

1097
01:02:28,111 --> 01:02:32,231
fight sequences and large action sequences. Space,

1098
01:02:32,871 --> 01:02:34,711
like time and space of characters.

1099
01:02:35,191 --> 01:02:35,671
>> Will: Yeah.

1100
01:02:36,611 --> 01:02:40,011
>> Sarah : throughout, arguably Volume two and the finale

1101
01:02:40,011 --> 01:02:47,651
itself. I just think being way too complicated, I

1102
01:02:47,891 --> 01:02:51,781
like the whole Cali of it all because that's the

1103
01:02:51,781 --> 01:02:55,181
other thing. I'm like, was she dead? And then.

1104
01:02:55,261 --> 01:02:57,541
Yeah. And then you do. While Mike's telling the

1105
01:02:57,541 --> 01:03:00,101
story, you do like, oh, so we're supposed to

1106
01:03:00,101 --> 01:03:03,421
believe that she was still alive, holding on for

1107
01:03:03,421 --> 01:03:07,421
dear life just at the perfect moment to cast this

1108
01:03:07,421 --> 01:03:11,181
other, this, this spell and to, and all of this.

1109
01:03:11,341 --> 01:03:14,781
It makes logical sense, I understand that. But it

1110
01:03:14,781 --> 01:03:20,371
does require some point of like. Okay, so you're

1111
01:03:20,371 --> 01:03:24,571
never gonna really explain like, where she is

1112
01:03:24,971 --> 01:03:28,661
because you want that potential, path to be

1113
01:03:28,661 --> 01:03:35,041
available for. Ah. L. Yeah, get that. but it's

1114
01:03:35,041 --> 01:03:38,841
just, it's just between. We're in Henry's mind,

1115
01:03:39,801 --> 01:03:41,901
we're. We're fighting Vecna. we're fighting

1116
01:03:41,901 --> 01:03:46,041
mindfully. I, I just, it just became all noise to

1117
01:03:46,041 --> 01:03:51,401
me. And Yeah, I don't. I, I guess my, My overall

1118
01:03:51,401 --> 01:03:54,121
point is, I'm not saying you have to kill a

1119
01:03:54,121 --> 01:03:56,921
character for stakes because that's, that's not

1120
01:03:56,921 --> 01:04:05,121
what a stake is. You, you, you have to, be able to

1121
01:04:07,041 --> 01:04:09,881
understand the consequences of actions. And I

1122
01:04:09,881 --> 01:04:15,011
think overall that's really what bothers me is

1123
01:04:15,011 --> 01:04:17,451
there's no consequence for anything that has

1124
01:04:17,451 --> 01:04:20,011
happened within the last four years.

1125
01:04:20,811 --> 01:04:22,031
>> Will: Nope, not at all.

1126
01:04:22,271 --> 01:04:25,311
>> Sarah : Because the military could care less. They've

1127
01:04:25,311 --> 01:04:28,911
moved on and. Oh yeah, we still really have no

1128
01:04:28,911 --> 01:04:32,191
idea where that thing in the briefcase came from.

1129
01:04:32,831 --> 01:04:35,191
Well, we know where it came from, kind of, but we

1130
01:04:35,191 --> 01:04:37,001
also don't know all of this exposure,

1131
01:04:37,071 --> 01:04:40,471
experimentation that was going on or whatever. So.

1132
01:04:40,471 --> 01:04:42,671
Yeah, if they want to do spin offs, go ahead.

1133
01:04:42,991 --> 01:04:45,231
Possibilities are endless. You've made it that

1134
01:04:45,231 --> 01:04:48,111
way. But what are your final thoughts, Will?

1135
01:04:48,911 --> 01:04:52,611
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. The, the, the spec.

1136
01:04:52,611 --> 01:04:56,981
The, the. The green screen of it all did, take me

1137
01:04:56,981 --> 01:05:00,641
out of it quite a bit, quite frankly. the, the

1138
01:05:00,641 --> 01:05:03,121
fight sequences and stuff just, I mean, not that

1139
01:05:03,121 --> 01:05:08,451
it was bad, it was just. It just, it just that's.

1140
01:05:08,451 --> 01:05:11,131
Without the show that thinking back to the very,

1141
01:05:11,131 --> 01:05:13,091
very beginning. I mean, you, they had more

1142
01:05:13,091 --> 01:05:16,771
practical effect effects and, and, and it was

1143
01:05:16,771 --> 01:05:18,371
really the. You know, as I said, this was like

1144
01:05:18,371 --> 01:05:23,251
the, to me, it was like these, this season really

1145
01:05:23,251 --> 01:05:25,291
like displayed the best and the worst of this

1146
01:05:25,291 --> 01:05:30,371
show. you know, with the emotional moments, you

1147
01:05:30,371 --> 01:05:32,691
know, when they land. Yeah. You know, there were

1148
01:05:32,691 --> 01:05:35,211
some definite moments where I was just like, yeah,

1149
01:05:35,211 --> 01:05:37,651
man, that. That, you know, I didn't cry or

1150
01:05:37,651 --> 01:05:40,531
anything, but, yeah, that. That moment hit and it

1151
01:05:40,531 --> 01:05:43,261
worked. but then there were moments like the big

1152
01:05:43,261 --> 01:05:45,461
battle with the Mind Flayer that I was just like.

1153
01:05:45,461 --> 01:05:48,181
I just checked out and I was just like, okay,

1154
01:05:48,181 --> 01:05:49,981
okay, Nancy's looking like Rambo there. I guess

1155
01:05:49,981 --> 01:05:51,781
that's why they had her hair looking all that way

1156
01:05:51,781 --> 01:05:57,821
this year. And it just kind of like. But. But the

1157
01:05:57,821 --> 01:05:59,901
last little bit with the epilogue, you know, with

1158
01:05:59,901 --> 01:06:03,101
this characters, you know, with the four older

1159
01:06:03,101 --> 01:06:06,971
characters, Joe, Jonathan, Nancy, Robin and. And

1160
01:06:06,971 --> 01:06:09,371
Steve on the. On the roof. I mean, that. That

1161
01:06:09,371 --> 01:06:12,531
though that scene worked because again, I think

1162
01:06:12,851 --> 01:06:16,291
where the show succeeded and. And why the

1163
01:06:16,291 --> 01:06:18,851
nostalgia, especially for a Gen X or like me,

1164
01:06:20,661 --> 01:06:24,981
where. Where it worked and why so many of my peers

1165
01:06:25,061 --> 01:06:27,581
really got in, you know, get into this show and

1166
01:06:27,581 --> 01:06:31,021
got into. And even now I was just like, you know,

1167
01:06:31,021 --> 01:06:32,621
looking at people I went to high school with on

1168
01:06:32,621 --> 01:06:34,861
Facebook and stuff and their reactions to. To

1169
01:06:34,861 --> 01:06:39,801
this, and people I work with who are Gen Xers. You

1170
01:06:39,801 --> 01:06:41,481
know, the reason why we fell in love with the show

1171
01:06:41,481 --> 01:06:43,761
to begin with was they use nostalgia correctly.

1172
01:06:44,411 --> 01:06:47,371
And I felt like over the courses of the subsequent

1173
01:06:47,371 --> 01:06:52,931
seasons, it lost that, for me, that. That

1174
01:06:52,931 --> 01:06:55,731
specialness is. It just became just kind of noise

1175
01:06:56,291 --> 01:07:00,091
as far as, like, the Mind Player battle. But

1176
01:07:00,091 --> 01:07:03,371
whenever they did pivot back to things as far as

1177
01:07:03,371 --> 01:07:05,251
relationships and stuff, for. With these

1178
01:07:05,251 --> 01:07:07,331
characters and interactions, as we were talking

1179
01:07:07,331 --> 01:07:09,941
about earlier this evening, that's when I was

1180
01:07:09,941 --> 01:07:11,981
like, yeah, this is why I like this show and why I

1181
01:07:11,981 --> 01:07:14,981
keep coming back to it. well, I. Will I revisit

1182
01:07:14,981 --> 01:07:20,611
it. Probably not, I was gonna say, but, but. But

1183
01:07:20,611 --> 01:07:22,971
when it did work, it worked. The things that

1184
01:07:22,971 --> 01:07:25,401
worked worked really well. And, yeah, like I said

1185
01:07:25,401 --> 01:07:27,201
at the. At the very beginning, I thought. I

1186
01:07:27,201 --> 01:07:31,241
thought overall it was fine. I'm not, you know,

1187
01:07:31,241 --> 01:07:34,341
I'm not, you know, I'm not gonna. I'm not walking

1188
01:07:34,341 --> 01:07:36,381
away from it being like, damn, that, you know,

1189
01:07:36,381 --> 01:07:40,001
they shot the bed this season. it was just. It

1190
01:07:40,001 --> 01:07:41,201
was. It was. It was okay.

1191
01:07:41,921 --> 01:07:47,401
>> Sarah : Yeah, I. I think that, all of my issues with this

1192
01:07:47,401 --> 01:07:52,641
season and the finale are pretty much the same

1193
01:07:52,641 --> 01:07:56,561
reasons that Are the same issues I had with any of

1194
01:07:56,561 --> 01:08:00,251
the previous seasons. I would also just want to

1195
01:08:00,251 --> 01:08:04,291
make a minor note. I did not like the ending scene

1196
01:08:04,451 --> 01:08:08,721
between, the older kids. Just gonna put that

1197
01:08:08,721 --> 01:08:11,391
there. and on that note, will why don't you tell

1198
01:08:11,391 --> 01:08:12,871
our listeners where they can find you?

1199
01:08:13,671 --> 01:08:16,041
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on all the socials at,

1200
01:08:16,001 --> 01:08:19,041
WillandPolk W I L L M M P O L.

1201
01:08:19,041 --> 01:08:21,961
>> Sarah : K. And you can find me there too at SJ Belmont

1202
01:08:21,961 --> 01:08:27,711
SJBLmot. Please follow our crew on Twitter x,

1203
01:08:27,711 --> 01:08:29,561
whatever you want to call it at Scene and Nerd. on

1204
01:08:29,561 --> 01:08:32,321
Blue sky at Scene and Nerd. Friend us on Facebook,

1205
01:08:32,321 --> 01:08:34,681
follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene,

1206
01:08:34,681 --> 01:08:36,761
underscore n, underscore Nerd and Visit our

1207
01:08:36,761 --> 01:08:40,361
website www.seniorpodcast.com. but most

1208
01:08:40,361 --> 01:08:42,361
importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple

1209
01:08:42,361 --> 01:08:44,201
Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your

1210
01:08:44,201 --> 01:08:46,081
podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.