Was The Last of Us Season 2 FINALE a Total Disappointment?

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>> Will: Music

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>> Sarah : Greetings, Nerds This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as

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always, is our Mr. Producer, will Will Polk How are you doing tonight,

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Will.

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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing this evening?

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>> Sarah : I'm doing good. I,

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It was the Tuesday, which felt like a

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long ass Monday as we were talking about

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earlier now. But.

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But in the back of my mind, I was like, well,

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we're gonna eat good tonight because we have a very

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controversial episode of television.

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>> Will: Yes, we do. Yes.

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>> Sarah : Oh, my God.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : So, so controversial. And it's

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just. That's so funny to me. But,

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But, yeah, like, just to start

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us off, Will, why don't you tell us your

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thoughts on, the season finale of the Last

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of Us. season two, episode seven converges

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amid the battle between Seattle's warring

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factions. Ellie searches search

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draws towards a devastating

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confrontation.

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>> Will: Yeah. So controversial,

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controversial show, controversial

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episode. and I. I had to.

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I will say I thought it was fun.

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I. As I

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message you Sunday night after

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we. After I watched it, I think I sent you a gif. That

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was like. I mean, yeah.

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because I. And it wasn't, And so

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it wasn't that they switched that with the ending

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where I was reacting to. It was just everything

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else. I just really felt that this episode for

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me was just all over the place and

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it was fine, but it just kind

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of captured my feelings

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of. Of this season. It was, you

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know, there were some high points and the rest of it was fine. I

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mean, it wasn't bad. It was just

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okay.

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>> Sarah : So when. When you say it was

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all over the place.

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Can you give me an example?

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>> Will: Yeah, I just. I just felt like it was.

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I felt like I was watching a bunch of cut scenes put together.

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>> Sarah : Uh-huh. that's a fair point. Yeah.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah. I mean, between the, you

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know, we start off with the. With

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we. With Ellie coming back from,

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torturing Nora. And again, I guess part of it too

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is just, you know, given the. And

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we wondered about this, given that

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how, you know, given that they shifted from

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all the action in episode five, go

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to episode six with the flashbacks, would

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that interrupt the momentum that they had built

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with this season? And. And now

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I have to say it did. I mean, I loved episode six.

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Don't get me wrong. I mean, it's. It was great. It

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definitely, as I said last week, it definitely reminded

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me, some of the things that, you know,

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clearly Pedro and Bella, when they are paired

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together, just amazing. I mean, and we saw that chemistry and

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everything last week, but I Did. But

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when we cut back to Seattle, day

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three, it. It did. Did

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interrupt the flow for me so that when

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we. We do see Ellie coming back and of course

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we start, in the, you know, in the

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theater and, and Jesse and Dina and all that and

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you know, it was, you know, we had that

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scene and then, you know, we got this book trip with

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the. To the. The scars

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island and all. You know, it was just. I just didn't feel like it

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had a good narrative. It didn't have a flow to me. as far as

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the scenes. And then, I mean, we'll get into. Get into some

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of the choices and, and things about

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Ellie, you know, and, And. And just the

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decision making of. Of all these folks. as we, as

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we discussed, as you said, we definitely have a lot to. A lot to chew

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on, but, those are. That's just sort of

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initial thoughts as far as why it felt. Why, I

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felt it was fine and just, you know, felt kind of choppy to me.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, I, I mean, it's a fair point.

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and it's.

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And you know this because you've seen the episode and you see

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how it ends and I'm sure you've listened to

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the podcast afterwards. Like,

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it. It does feel like a bunch of cut scenes because it's all

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from Ellie's perspective. And season three is

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all going to be told from Abby's

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perspective.

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>> Will: Right?

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>> Sarah : and then some. Yeah,

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I. I think that's where what

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people like, yes, season three

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will detail from Abby's perspective

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the three days in Seattle. But there's

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more like

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they're.

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Arguably the way

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the gameplay works that's

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disjointed is that. Is that

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you. You. You start off

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with. With Ellie and you go through

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this entire season and then you jump to Abby

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and. And it's. And it's very similar

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in the sense that it's like, well, well, why. Why

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am I suddenly playing as the antagonist

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and like, I don't care or like,

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what is this? And then.

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But. But it goes past the three days

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and it goes into a lot more. And there's. There's a

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lot more. But why I'm,

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I'm saying that is because

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I think overall, I mean,

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besides this episode just feeling like

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a bunch of cut scenes spliced together, which is

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just so valid and I think is the best

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way to describe this episode.

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It's. This entire season

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is set up for

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next season and the payoff

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for all of this, you have to

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wait. Like the payoff in the game,

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you don't wait.

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>> Will: Right. Yeah.

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>> Sarah : So I just. I.

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I mean, I love the showrunners. I think they are

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very smart, but I don't understand.

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I understand their logic for how they

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constructed this season, but you should

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have shot season two and three back

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to back. Exactly there.

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You can't. You can't do it. You. There.

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There is a. You're. And from what

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I briefly saw, in, like two minutes,

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they're losing viewership with this final

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episode because they are, already taking some

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missteps. They're. They're gonna have a

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lower return rate because people

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will a. Have forgotten

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and also be like,

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I, know, like they feel like they

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know what they're. They're

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getting into and they've already seen it and they don't

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really care. Like, at no point

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in. I, think the big failing

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is at no

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point in this season

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is there anything other than the fact

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that the Doctor was her dad

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that gives any kind of like, oh,

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well, I, I want to know.

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Get to understand Abby more.

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It just. And, And, And

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I, I could have

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predicted this.

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And by this, I mean, of course, the events, because I know what

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happens, but more importantly, the

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overall response

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way back in episode two.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

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>> Sarah : Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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>> Will: And I guess the other thing, too. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you

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off. I mean, I guess, Go ahead. Go ahead.

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>> Sarah : Oh, no, go. Go ahead. What's the other thing?

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>> Will: Yeah, I mean, I guess the other thing for me was just,

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you know, to, to your

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reacting to your point about shooting seasons two and three

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together because, Because I think

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the reaction I think people are having. I. Obviously, I didn't play

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the game, but I do. But people,

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they, you know, it was just. Just like the game is

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playing out in live action. People reacted very

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strongly and, and, and,

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but. But to your point, at least with the

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game, you know, you could have this. You know, you can

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jump right into it. You know, a year

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wait is, you know, fine. I mean, I get that. I mean, if we had to

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wait till, you know, 2026, you know, summer,

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that's fine.

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>> Sarah : But.

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>> Will: But to me, it. To your

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point, I mean, it's probably best case. Best case,

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we're looking at probably 20, 27, before we get back to the

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show. and so. And TV will end. That is

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a long time. I mean, to use you to think of another thing that we're

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waiting for to drop. And up to the point where it's almost

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like off the collective conscious for me is Stranger Things

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as a. As an analogy, as far as, like, having

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too long of a break between. Between seasons.

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>> Sarah : I. I thought you were gonna say special. Ah.

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Spider man across the multiverse or whatever.

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>> Will: And that one, too. That's another one.

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>> Sarah : I've given up more on that than Stranger Things, but

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I totally agree with your point.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. It's just, Because.

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Especially for us casuals who never play the game, and we, you

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know, so.

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>> Sarah : But. So here's to play devil's

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advocate.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Because.

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>> Sarah : Because we got through the season where

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Abby's the villain because she

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kills off the beloved Pedro

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Pascal, AKA Joel.

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>> Will: She.

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>> Sarah : We get. We get. The viewers

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get so much distance.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : From that. That maybe.

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And maybe by that point, it's just like, I just

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want to return to the world. Like, I don't really care.

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And. And also. Also, yes.

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It's a rehash of some events.

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Some events. Because not everything

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that Ellie goes through, Abby goes through, I'll tell you that much.

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But I. But

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that. That it's enough distance where it's like,

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oh, this feels familiar. Familiar. Like

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deja vu almost. So. So

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it could work to their benefit, I

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don't think, viewership wise, it's going to. I think

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people. What will happen. This is my

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prediction. What will happen is people who

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want to return will return.

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And then if. If season three

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is like, oh, my God, you

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need to watch this, they're gonna

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have. They're gonna, like, the. The

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repeat viewership. Like. Like,

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people will instantly start. It'll. There'll

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be buzz and all of that, and I think it'll get a lot

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of, like, oh, I missed it, but I'm watching.

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I'm binge watching it now. Or. Yeah,

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whatever.

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>> Will: Or. Or. Or there could. Yeah. There'll be any number of factors.

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You know, there'll be the Hate Watch. They'll be the, Oh, yeah,

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I. I mean, I think, you know, and I think they were trying to

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give us this season a,

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little bit of structure, you know, with introducing Abby the way

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that they did in episode one, giving her

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backstory, you know, changing things up to, you know, to basically

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give us a give. Give viewers, especially

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for newbies like me who didn't play the game. I mean,

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I know enough about this character to be like,

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oh, okay, you know, give us. Give us a.

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00:12:14,821 --> 00:12:17,781
Get us something to get. I almost say invested,

255
00:12:17,781 --> 00:12:18,821
but at least interested.

256
00:12:19,471 --> 00:12:22,471
>> Sarah : yeah, well, it's. It's also goes

257
00:12:22,471 --> 00:12:25,271
beyond Abby because. Because in

258
00:12:25,271 --> 00:12:28,031
this episode, we. We get.

259
00:12:28,191 --> 00:12:29,871
We get Owen and Mel.

260
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>> Will: Yeah.

261
00:12:31,391 --> 00:12:31,791
>> Sarah : And.

262
00:12:34,431 --> 00:12:36,751
And. And we Just get a taste of it

263
00:12:37,471 --> 00:12:39,951
and we. We find out

264
00:12:40,671 --> 00:12:43,471
Mel's pregnant. Yeah, that was

265
00:12:43,471 --> 00:12:44,271
Owen's child.

266
00:12:46,691 --> 00:12:49,011
and. But there's also, like,

267
00:12:49,811 --> 00:12:52,651
I'm not good at geometry, but you

268
00:12:52,651 --> 00:12:55,531
got. You got three characters. Two are female, one is a

269
00:12:55,531 --> 00:12:58,291
boy. Yep, yep. We got another love

270
00:12:58,291 --> 00:12:59,331
triangle happening.

271
00:13:01,411 --> 00:13:01,811
>> Will: So.

272
00:13:02,051 --> 00:13:04,851
>> Sarah : So when. When Abby comes in at the end

273
00:13:04,851 --> 00:13:07,611
and she says, you killed my friends. No,

274
00:13:07,611 --> 00:13:10,381
no, no, no. That. That

275
00:13:10,381 --> 00:13:12,781
is the simplest way,

276
00:13:13,181 --> 00:13:15,741
like, to describe her dynamic with

277
00:13:15,901 --> 00:13:18,781
especially Owen. Like. Like,

278
00:13:19,251 --> 00:13:22,011
yeah. So what I'm. What I'm. What I'm

279
00:13:22,011 --> 00:13:24,971
saying is, like, all of this season,

280
00:13:25,371 --> 00:13:28,011
the. The. The execution of the season

281
00:13:28,571 --> 00:13:30,971
really will only be determined in

282
00:13:30,971 --> 00:13:33,891
hindsight because it'll be based on whether

283
00:13:33,891 --> 00:13:36,731
or not they can actually deliver with season

284
00:13:36,811 --> 00:13:37,211
three.

285
00:13:38,001 --> 00:13:38,321
>> Will: Yeah.

286
00:13:38,481 --> 00:13:41,121
>> Sarah : Because if season three fails, then

287
00:13:41,201 --> 00:13:44,121
the entire. These. This season was a

288
00:13:44,121 --> 00:13:47,121
waste. If season three, like, lives up to

289
00:13:47,121 --> 00:13:49,361
expectations and then some.

290
00:13:50,081 --> 00:13:53,041
Like, then people are gonna return to season

291
00:13:53,121 --> 00:13:55,921
two and be like, okay, I understand

292
00:13:56,241 --> 00:13:59,161
this now, and, and all of that. I

293
00:13:59,161 --> 00:14:02,041
mean, granted, a lot of people probably also watch

294
00:14:02,041 --> 00:14:05,001
the end and it was just like, well, I'm gonna. Because we're not

295
00:14:05,001 --> 00:14:07,761
getting until 2027. Might as well go ahead and spoil

296
00:14:07,761 --> 00:14:08,241
myself.

297
00:14:08,641 --> 00:14:11,241
>> Will: Yeah. Go play the game. Or go watch. Go watch all the

298
00:14:11,241 --> 00:14:11,921
cutscenes.

299
00:14:12,321 --> 00:14:15,201
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah.

300
00:14:15,201 --> 00:14:18,121
And. And so I just. Before we move on

301
00:14:18,121 --> 00:14:20,801
from Owen, and Mel, I do want to ask you.

302
00:14:21,041 --> 00:14:21,601
>> Will: Yeah.

303
00:14:22,521 --> 00:14:25,351
>> Sarah : a. At any point, did you think

304
00:14:25,351 --> 00:14:27,631
Mel was pregnant during that scene?

305
00:14:30,501 --> 00:14:32,181
>> Will: I did not, actually.

306
00:14:32,261 --> 00:14:32,621
>> Sarah : Good.

307
00:14:32,621 --> 00:14:32,901
>> Will: No.

308
00:14:32,901 --> 00:14:33,221
>> Sarah : Good.

309
00:14:33,221 --> 00:14:36,221
>> Will: No, I did not. I mean, it. It definitely. It

310
00:14:36,221 --> 00:14:39,181
was a good. Like I said, it was a good reveal. I mean, this is. This

311
00:14:39,181 --> 00:14:41,941
was. That was one place where the season did do a good

312
00:14:41,941 --> 00:14:44,821
job. But I mean, execution of things like

313
00:14:44,821 --> 00:14:47,781
that, I felt this. I

314
00:14:47,781 --> 00:14:50,261
thought the show kept that.

315
00:14:51,621 --> 00:14:53,621
Kept it there. Their good edge there.

316
00:14:54,361 --> 00:14:57,321
>> Sarah : Right. I. I watched

317
00:14:57,321 --> 00:14:59,721
the side by side comparison

318
00:15:00,601 --> 00:15:03,161
with the cut scene in the. In the game.

319
00:15:04,121 --> 00:15:07,071
And, because I. While watching it, I felt I was

320
00:15:07,071 --> 00:15:09,911
like, there's something off about this. And it's because

321
00:15:10,551 --> 00:15:13,031
in the game, what

322
00:15:13,031 --> 00:15:15,711
happens is as the way

323
00:15:15,711 --> 00:15:17,751
Owen dies is the same.

324
00:15:18,151 --> 00:15:18,511
>> Will: Right.

325
00:15:18,511 --> 00:15:21,331
>> Sarah : But with Mel, it's not a

326
00:15:21,331 --> 00:15:24,331
single shot that goes through him and hits

327
00:15:24,331 --> 00:15:27,171
her. Also, she ends up

328
00:15:27,171 --> 00:15:28,691
getting into a knife fight.

329
00:15:29,011 --> 00:15:29,411
>> Will: Right.

330
00:15:29,651 --> 00:15:32,571
>> Sarah : Like, and then Ellie stabs

331
00:15:32,571 --> 00:15:32,851
her.

332
00:15:33,251 --> 00:15:33,811
>> Will: Yeah.

333
00:15:33,971 --> 00:15:36,891
>> Sarah : And. And. And then it's revealed and

334
00:15:36,891 --> 00:15:39,331
there's none of this. You got to take the baby out.

335
00:15:39,731 --> 00:15:41,731
But, man, that was like.

336
00:15:43,171 --> 00:15:45,891
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. So I. I did like that

337
00:15:45,891 --> 00:15:47,011
change from the game.

338
00:15:47,571 --> 00:15:47,891
>> Sarah : yeah.

339
00:15:48,381 --> 00:15:50,661
>> Will: I think it too, because

340
00:15:51,301 --> 00:15:54,261
up until the. Up until that point and, and

341
00:15:54,421 --> 00:15:57,341
and really not only, not only in an

342
00:15:57,341 --> 00:15:59,861
episode, but throughout since, you know, since

343
00:15:59,861 --> 00:16:02,661
episode three. A suspend is vengeance question.

344
00:16:03,781 --> 00:16:06,701
And, and you know, and so the, the

345
00:16:06,701 --> 00:16:09,701
ver. The, the game version of it is definitely

346
00:16:09,701 --> 00:16:12,661
the, the L. Ellie just completely

347
00:16:12,661 --> 00:16:15,521
like, you know, whatever vestages of goodwill or

348
00:16:15,521 --> 00:16:18,401
humanity that at

349
00:16:18,401 --> 00:16:21,281
least in the TV version of Ellie, you know, it

350
00:16:21,281 --> 00:16:24,201
hasn't been completely blinded because at that moment

351
00:16:24,201 --> 00:16:27,161
she still, you know, she felt helpless. And

352
00:16:28,191 --> 00:16:31,121
and also, you know, and she, and she did,

353
00:16:31,361 --> 00:16:34,361
she did have, you know, when, after, after the fact she was like,

354
00:16:34,361 --> 00:16:37,361
okay, we got to go back. You know, she, her humanity kicked in.

355
00:16:37,791 --> 00:16:40,671
>> Sarah : that happened in the game too. Don't get me wrong.

356
00:16:42,111 --> 00:16:44,431
Still played out that way. Like Ellie's

357
00:16:44,911 --> 00:16:47,591
Bella and Ellie like, or just

358
00:16:47,591 --> 00:16:50,271
Ellie still has remorse because

359
00:16:50,431 --> 00:16:53,311
of that realization. It hits her. I think

360
00:16:53,311 --> 00:16:56,151
it was, I do agree. I do think it was

361
00:16:56,151 --> 00:16:58,841
stronger, TV

362
00:16:58,841 --> 00:17:01,790
wise, because, because of the performance and See,

363
00:17:01,790 --> 00:17:04,630
I find, I'm glad you brought it up

364
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:07,630
like that because this leads me into the next thing I

365
00:17:07,630 --> 00:17:09,270
wanted to talk about because

366
00:17:10,550 --> 00:17:13,120
I, I, I thought this episode was fine.

367
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,320
But I've, I've been fine with

368
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,800
how everything is because I know

369
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,280
where, where we're headed. But

370
00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,440
something that stuck out to me and kind of

371
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:26,640
drove me crazy.

372
00:17:28,541 --> 00:17:30,541
Just, just a little annoyance

373
00:17:31,341 --> 00:17:33,261
is, is it.

374
00:17:34,321 --> 00:17:36,961
and I think this is where we're gonna diverge.

375
00:17:37,441 --> 00:17:40,081
But I felt,

376
00:17:40,801 --> 00:17:43,601
I felt annoyed with Ellie in this

377
00:17:43,601 --> 00:17:46,561
episode because it felt like in one scene,

378
00:17:46,801 --> 00:17:49,761
in one scene it's clear she wants to

379
00:17:49,761 --> 00:17:52,481
go back. She's like, I'm not,

380
00:17:52,481 --> 00:17:55,281
I'm not like you guys, I'm better than you.

381
00:17:55,441 --> 00:17:58,411
And then, and then, but the moment she's talking to Jesse, it's

382
00:17:58,791 --> 00:18:01,671
no, no, no, I'm going to do this

383
00:18:01,751 --> 00:18:04,631
and I, and you are not better than me

384
00:18:04,631 --> 00:18:07,591
because you want to go back to Jackson. Like it felt

385
00:18:07,751 --> 00:18:10,591
so flip floppy to me where I'm

386
00:18:10,591 --> 00:18:12,711
just like, girl,

387
00:18:13,271 --> 00:18:16,261
figure out. Are you the, do you, are you ready to

388
00:18:16,261 --> 00:18:19,181
be the villain or are you still adamant?

389
00:18:19,181 --> 00:18:21,341
Like, like it's just,

390
00:18:21,981 --> 00:18:24,941
it bothered me because it felt like she kept

391
00:18:24,941 --> 00:18:27,681
contradicting herself with, with both her

392
00:18:27,681 --> 00:18:29,281
words and her actions.

393
00:18:29,681 --> 00:18:32,521
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so we, we

394
00:18:32,521 --> 00:18:35,401
agree. I completely. Yeah, that was, that was

395
00:18:35,401 --> 00:18:38,201
part of the frustration that I had. But I also have to remember that,

396
00:18:38,201 --> 00:18:39,841
okay, Ellie's a 19 year old kid.

397
00:18:39,841 --> 00:18:41,041
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah.

398
00:18:41,061 --> 00:18:43,971
>> Will: and so, so, so she

399
00:18:43,971 --> 00:18:46,731
is, you know, she is still driven by impulse and,

400
00:18:48,091 --> 00:18:50,811
and so, so

401
00:18:51,071 --> 00:18:54,021
from that standpoint I could see the irrationality

402
00:18:54,021 --> 00:18:55,901
of it. But, but it, but I

403
00:18:57,641 --> 00:19:00,521
Bother me. And I guess that was the other thing too is as far as how they've been writing

404
00:19:00,521 --> 00:19:03,381
the characters this season, I, just feel like they've been.

405
00:19:04,021 --> 00:19:07,021
It's been. I think that to me, where I

406
00:19:07,021 --> 00:19:09,701
felt like the first season excelled over the second season

407
00:19:09,781 --> 00:19:12,701
is the first season. I

408
00:19:12,701 --> 00:19:14,661
felt like they trusted us as viewers

409
00:19:15,381 --> 00:19:18,301
more to put. To connect the dots A to B to

410
00:19:18,301 --> 00:19:21,261
C here to your point, as far as the flip flopping

411
00:19:21,261 --> 00:19:22,661
and all that kind of stuff, they just,

412
00:19:24,351 --> 00:19:27,351
they were like spoon. You know, there were things that they would

413
00:19:27,351 --> 00:19:30,271
do the exposition dump of spoon feeding of stuff or

414
00:19:31,131 --> 00:19:34,131
you know, just. Yeah, I just didn't. I don't feel like they

415
00:19:34,131 --> 00:19:37,011
trusted us as viewers to like, you know, figure out, figure

416
00:19:37,011 --> 00:19:39,971
out some of the things that were going on at this season. So I just

417
00:19:39,971 --> 00:19:42,971
felt like they, they insulted our intelligence as far as,

418
00:19:43,291 --> 00:19:46,251
you know, some of the, the choices of these characters making

419
00:19:46,331 --> 00:19:49,231
very bad decisions, you know,

420
00:19:49,231 --> 00:19:51,791
to this. Reckless decisions.

421
00:19:52,351 --> 00:19:54,991
And. But, but to your point,

422
00:19:55,071 --> 00:19:58,031
also, flip flop being one minute they're a protective

423
00:19:58,031 --> 00:20:00,631
mode because, oh, now I'm gonna be a daddy. You know, both

424
00:20:00,631 --> 00:20:03,511
Ellie. And then next minute they're like, oh, hell

425
00:20:03,511 --> 00:20:06,391
no. Let's just. I'm gonna go across the Puget, you know, go

426
00:20:06,391 --> 00:20:09,391
across the bay and you know, I'm gonna take Abby

427
00:20:09,391 --> 00:20:12,321
out at the aquarium. or, or. Or

428
00:20:12,321 --> 00:20:15,281
not, you know, or whenever the question about the whole

429
00:20:15,281 --> 00:20:16,641
issue of Community came up.

430
00:20:16,801 --> 00:20:17,041
>> Sarah : right.

431
00:20:17,281 --> 00:20:20,241
>> Will: Yeah. So those were the kind of things. It was just like, okay.

432
00:20:21,441 --> 00:20:22,881
And maybe that was intentional.

433
00:20:23,441 --> 00:20:25,841
>> Sarah : Well, well, so I,

434
00:20:27,361 --> 00:20:30,241
I agree with you for the most part. I, I

435
00:20:30,241 --> 00:20:33,241
don't, I can't recall a scene where I felt

436
00:20:33,241 --> 00:20:35,891
like exposition dump. and I,

437
00:20:35,891 --> 00:20:38,331
I don't know if we were spoon fed.

438
00:20:39,611 --> 00:20:42,481
I, it's almost from my perspective, it's as if

439
00:20:42,481 --> 00:20:43,521
we were not spoo.

440
00:20:47,421 --> 00:20:50,141
But also. Hm. Let me take that

441
00:20:50,141 --> 00:20:52,461
back. I think the problem

442
00:20:52,781 --> 00:20:55,461
is, and this is something I said last

443
00:20:55,461 --> 00:20:58,301
week, I think in season one.

444
00:20:59,181 --> 00:21:02,141
Yes, the through line was Joel and Ellie,

445
00:21:02,461 --> 00:21:05,301
but there were so many. There were a handful

446
00:21:05,301 --> 00:21:06,941
of other stories told

447
00:21:08,141 --> 00:21:09,501
this season though.

448
00:21:10,861 --> 00:21:12,301
This was all Ellie.

449
00:21:12,871 --> 00:21:13,271
>> Will: Yeah.

450
00:21:14,071 --> 00:21:16,951
>> Sarah : And that's where the repetition,

451
00:21:17,671 --> 00:21:20,391
the frustration, the going in

452
00:21:20,391 --> 00:21:23,231
circles, the like, what was

453
00:21:23,231 --> 00:21:25,871
it? Episodes, 5 and 4

454
00:21:25,871 --> 00:21:28,831
felt like kind of the same thing. And it's just

455
00:21:28,831 --> 00:21:31,231
like, okay, and, and then,

456
00:21:31,471 --> 00:21:34,151
and when that leads me as a

457
00:21:34,151 --> 00:21:36,911
viewer to suddenly be like

458
00:21:37,071 --> 00:21:37,951
convenience.

459
00:21:38,901 --> 00:21:39,221
>> Will: Yep.

460
00:21:40,021 --> 00:21:42,581
>> Sarah : Was the other thing that drove me crazy about this

461
00:21:42,581 --> 00:21:45,341
episode. They're standing on top of like a

462
00:21:45,341 --> 00:21:48,341
skyscraper and she's like, oh, I figured out

463
00:21:48,341 --> 00:21:51,301
the Whale wheel thing. Let me just head over there.

464
00:21:51,541 --> 00:21:54,261
I. Okay. Tangent time

465
00:21:55,061 --> 00:21:57,221
in Seattle. Okay.

466
00:21:57,781 --> 00:22:00,581
I. I've been there a bunch of

467
00:22:00,581 --> 00:22:03,541
times, but there was one

468
00:22:03,541 --> 00:22:06,531
time when me and my dad, we were. I think it was

469
00:22:06,531 --> 00:22:09,371
downtown Seattle and we were staying at a

470
00:22:09,371 --> 00:22:12,291
hotel and we didn't have a rental car. And my dad

471
00:22:12,291 --> 00:22:14,731
says, hey, look, there's a space needle. Let's walk.

472
00:22:15,211 --> 00:22:18,011
We can walk to it four hours

473
00:22:18,091 --> 00:22:20,891
later. Okay. Okay.

474
00:22:21,371 --> 00:22:24,011
Yeah, four. Four hours. Okay.

475
00:22:24,491 --> 00:22:27,411
So the moment she did that and then

476
00:22:27,411 --> 00:22:30,371
the next thing I know, she's at the beach. I'm

477
00:22:30,371 --> 00:22:32,021
like, hm,

478
00:22:32,761 --> 00:22:35,761
convenience. There's

479
00:22:35,761 --> 00:22:38,721
no way. There is no way. And

480
00:22:38,721 --> 00:22:40,521
also the. Just

481
00:22:42,281 --> 00:22:44,201
they spend so much time

482
00:22:45,161 --> 00:22:48,001
throughout these episodes explaining, like, you

483
00:22:48,001 --> 00:22:51,001
have the map. Like, Seattle's a big

484
00:22:51,161 --> 00:22:54,161
place. So. So it felt like

485
00:22:54,161 --> 00:22:56,881
in a few episodes we would. We would maybe

486
00:22:56,881 --> 00:22:59,841
go a mile and. And then in this episode,

487
00:22:59,841 --> 00:23:02,841
it felt like we went down to the beach, back to

488
00:23:02,841 --> 00:23:05,841
the center of the city, like all over the place in

489
00:23:05,841 --> 00:23:08,561
the same day. And I just like, no,

490
00:23:08,561 --> 00:23:10,441
no, no. Or in the same night.

491
00:23:11,401 --> 00:23:14,281
So that, like, like, they,

492
00:23:14,281 --> 00:23:17,161
they. I understand. Because

493
00:23:17,161 --> 00:23:20,161
they really wanted. They

494
00:23:20,161 --> 00:23:22,921
really wanted this season told

495
00:23:23,001 --> 00:23:25,501
through her perspective where the

496
00:23:25,501 --> 00:23:28,501
viewers felt like they were experiencing the

497
00:23:28,501 --> 00:23:31,341
emotions. Maybe this is the flaw.

498
00:23:32,541 --> 00:23:35,181
Viewers already had so much love for. For

499
00:23:35,181 --> 00:23:38,141
Pedro and for Joel. They

500
00:23:38,141 --> 00:23:41,140
don't need to. To grieve the

501
00:23:41,140 --> 00:23:43,661
way or see how Ellie is grieving

502
00:23:44,301 --> 00:23:47,261
or processing this. And the path,

503
00:23:47,661 --> 00:23:50,221
like, there needed to be

504
00:23:50,301 --> 00:23:53,141
more so stories that

505
00:23:53,141 --> 00:23:56,141
were told. And that's. I think that's why a lot of people did like

506
00:23:56,141 --> 00:23:58,861
last week is because, yes, you had Joel and

507
00:23:58,861 --> 00:24:01,381
Ellie, but you also had,

508
00:24:01,971 --> 00:24:04,851
Katherine o' Hare's character and

509
00:24:05,411 --> 00:24:08,331
Gail and Eugene and you got a little bit

510
00:24:08,331 --> 00:24:09,251
of their story.

511
00:24:09,651 --> 00:24:10,131
>> Will: Yeah.

512
00:24:10,131 --> 00:24:13,091
>> Sarah : And. And, and the sad thing about it

513
00:24:13,091 --> 00:24:15,651
is, ah. At the end of this episode, Jesse dies.

514
00:24:16,621 --> 00:24:18,541
And, And. And

515
00:24:19,581 --> 00:24:22,501
he's one of the constants where you're just like, I want to know

516
00:24:22,501 --> 00:24:23,501
more about Jesse.

517
00:24:23,901 --> 00:24:26,461
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, this

518
00:24:26,461 --> 00:24:29,421
episode, I. Yeah, I mean, this, this. Whenever

519
00:24:29,501 --> 00:24:32,380
Jesse and Dina. Well,

520
00:24:32,380 --> 00:24:35,221
especially. Especially just Jesse, whatever he was on

521
00:24:35,221 --> 00:24:38,101
the screen. I just. That's

522
00:24:38,101 --> 00:24:40,981
when I was engaged because, you

523
00:24:40,981 --> 00:24:43,541
know, he, he, you know,

524
00:24:43,541 --> 00:24:46,341
shared, you know, you know, we learned. We

525
00:24:46,341 --> 00:24:49,121
learned so many things, with. About

526
00:24:49,121 --> 00:24:51,881
him. You know, he had, you know, for example, when they

527
00:24:51,881 --> 00:24:54,721
were. When they were sitting in the bookstore, the library

528
00:24:55,201 --> 00:24:57,681
there, you know, he talked about how, you know,

529
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,641
he had an opportunity to. To,

530
00:25:00,801 --> 00:25:03,321
you know, go with the group to

531
00:25:03,321 --> 00:25:06,281
Mexico and, and, and, you

532
00:25:06,281 --> 00:25:09,281
know, and had, you know, great two weeks of, you know, of.

533
00:25:09,281 --> 00:25:12,001
Of his life. And all that.

534
00:25:12,001 --> 00:25:14,481
But, you know, but at the same, you know, but

535
00:25:14,961 --> 00:25:17,721
he, but he had this sense of community. And I know

536
00:25:17,721 --> 00:25:20,481
and I know that what they were trying to do there with,

537
00:25:20,961 --> 00:25:23,801
you know, him being the responsible community leader, you know,

538
00:25:23,801 --> 00:25:26,681
future leader of Jackson versus, you know, in the whole

539
00:25:26,681 --> 00:25:29,681
community thing. And you know, and you know, Ellie has

540
00:25:30,081 --> 00:25:33,001
in some way sort of stepped into the role that

541
00:25:33,001 --> 00:25:36,001
Joel did whenever he was having that conversation with Maria at the

542
00:25:36,001 --> 00:25:39,001
beginning of this, you know, with the first episode about, community. So,

543
00:25:39,001 --> 00:25:42,001
you know, so I know what, you know, so I get where they're trying to paint the

544
00:25:42,001 --> 00:25:45,001
picture of, you know, and even, you know, to your point, you brought up Gail.

545
00:25:45,001 --> 00:25:48,001
I mean, you know, I think about Gail and Tommy's conversation

546
00:25:48,001 --> 00:25:51,001
in the, at the baseball game, you know, that Joel and Ellie are,

547
00:25:51,161 --> 00:25:53,961
are basically, they're,

548
00:25:53,961 --> 00:25:56,841
they're very similar as far as their personality types

549
00:25:56,921 --> 00:25:59,431
and who they are. So you know, so I,

550
00:25:59,591 --> 00:26:02,591
so whenever they had those moments during the episode,

551
00:26:02,591 --> 00:26:05,431
I really like those moments because to your point, you know,

552
00:26:05,431 --> 00:26:08,041
it added depth to the characters. It felt,

553
00:26:08,441 --> 00:26:10,921
you know, it, it, it, you know, you know,

554
00:26:11,401 --> 00:26:14,041
whenever they get into some of the story, the moral

555
00:26:14,041 --> 00:26:17,041
questions and, and more philosophical things, I think this is

556
00:26:17,041 --> 00:26:18,281
when the show really excels.

557
00:26:19,161 --> 00:26:21,801
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, it, it, it does

558
00:26:21,881 --> 00:26:24,441
because it's what they

559
00:26:24,601 --> 00:26:27,401
we come to expect with season one.

560
00:26:28,341 --> 00:26:30,741
and it also, it's,

561
00:26:32,271 --> 00:26:35,071
you can only have so much fight. Fight action.

562
00:26:36,191 --> 00:26:36,671
>> Will: Yeah.

563
00:26:36,671 --> 00:26:39,511
>> Sarah : And I will say, not a single infected

564
00:26:39,511 --> 00:26:40,511
in this episode.

565
00:26:40,671 --> 00:26:42,431
>> Will: Nope, nope. Not not at all.

566
00:26:42,591 --> 00:26:45,551
>> Sarah : For better or for worse. Because arguably I'm like,

567
00:26:45,551 --> 00:26:48,551
I, I saw the distance between where you were Ellie,

568
00:26:48,551 --> 00:26:51,551
and where that, that aquarium was.

569
00:26:51,791 --> 00:26:54,391
Okay, you're telling me you didn't run into a single freaking

570
00:26:54,391 --> 00:26:54,911
infected?

571
00:26:55,391 --> 00:26:55,871
>> Will: Yeah.

572
00:26:58,591 --> 00:27:01,541
>> Sarah : There's so much of that that it,

573
00:27:01,541 --> 00:27:04,141
it just, and, but there

574
00:27:05,261 --> 00:27:08,221
it's so I,

575
00:27:08,381 --> 00:27:11,341
I, I have thought in like the 48

576
00:27:11,341 --> 00:27:14,141
hours since I've watched this episode, I have thought,

577
00:27:14,141 --> 00:27:16,941
I'm like, I, I see that I have my criticism,

578
00:27:17,181 --> 00:27:20,101
I, I, I know other people's

579
00:27:20,101 --> 00:27:23,061
criticism. But then I go back and I'm

580
00:27:23,061 --> 00:27:25,501
like, well, how would,

581
00:27:27,031 --> 00:27:29,271
what could you, what would you do

582
00:27:30,071 --> 00:27:32,871
besides potentially shooting them back

583
00:27:32,871 --> 00:27:35,591
to back? Like how would you structure this

584
00:27:35,591 --> 00:27:38,381
season any other, differently. And the

585
00:27:38,381 --> 00:27:40,981
one thing that I kept circling back to

586
00:27:41,861 --> 00:27:44,701
that I, I, we will never know if

587
00:27:44,701 --> 00:27:47,661
this could happen. or

588
00:27:47,661 --> 00:27:50,421
what the response would be is I

589
00:27:50,421 --> 00:27:52,501
wonder if what they should have done

590
00:27:54,281 --> 00:27:56,921
is this should have been Abby's season.

591
00:27:58,681 --> 00:28:01,441
No, no Joel, no Ellie until the

592
00:28:01,441 --> 00:28:01,721
end.

593
00:28:03,691 --> 00:28:05,691
>> Sarah : Or, or maybe arguably

594
00:28:06,491 --> 00:28:09,251
like, like, or even telling

595
00:28:09,251 --> 00:28:11,611
the three days through her perspective.

596
00:28:12,411 --> 00:28:15,091
And at the end, like,

597
00:28:15,091 --> 00:28:17,931
Ellie shows up and you're like, whoa, what's going

598
00:28:17,931 --> 00:28:20,911
on here? And then, and then they might

599
00:28:21,071 --> 00:28:23,871
mention or tease to like, well, you

600
00:28:23,871 --> 00:28:26,781
killed this person. but you don't see

601
00:28:26,781 --> 00:28:29,541
that until season three. Just, I just

602
00:28:29,701 --> 00:28:31,621
wonder if,

603
00:28:33,301 --> 00:28:34,821
because it's such a,

604
00:28:36,021 --> 00:28:38,901
it's such a departure from

605
00:28:38,901 --> 00:28:41,381
like, I mean, we didn't even spend that much time in

606
00:28:41,381 --> 00:28:44,061
Jackson last season, but

607
00:28:44,061 --> 00:28:46,501
still, coming into this season,

608
00:28:46,981 --> 00:28:49,821
you're like, okay, we're gonna see life in Jackson.

609
00:28:49,821 --> 00:28:52,761
Oh, by episode three, we' out of Jackson. This is

610
00:28:52,761 --> 00:28:53,841
all about Seattle.

611
00:28:54,241 --> 00:28:56,961
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a very

612
00:28:56,961 --> 00:28:59,871
interesting thought. yeah, because as, as you were, as

613
00:28:59,871 --> 00:29:02,591
you were sharing that, I was thinking like, okay, how

614
00:29:02,591 --> 00:29:05,311
if, if, if I were, if I were Neil Druckman and Greg

615
00:29:05,311 --> 00:29:08,111
Mason, how would I, how, and

616
00:29:08,111 --> 00:29:11,071
how would I structure this? And you know, and this is why I'm sitting

617
00:29:11,071 --> 00:29:12,711
here talking to you instead of being a

618
00:29:13,191 --> 00:29:16,111
showrunner of a, several

619
00:29:16,111 --> 00:29:19,061
successful TV shows and, and and no Druckman, who

620
00:29:19,061 --> 00:29:21,901
has created, you know, a, you know, epic, game

621
00:29:22,061 --> 00:29:22,941
twice now.

622
00:29:23,421 --> 00:29:23,821
>> Sarah : Right.

623
00:29:24,541 --> 00:29:26,701
>> Will: But yeah, I, I,

624
00:29:27,501 --> 00:29:30,221
I, I don't know. I don't.

625
00:29:30,221 --> 00:29:33,021
Maybe if they had, if they, maybe if they

626
00:29:33,021 --> 00:29:36,021
had more than seven episodes, maybe they could

627
00:29:36,021 --> 00:29:38,941
have like done that type of structure

628
00:29:38,941 --> 00:29:41,901
where you have thought, you know, you know, a,

629
00:29:41,981 --> 00:29:43,901
a three, three,

630
00:29:44,941 --> 00:29:47,751
you know, you know, three,

631
00:29:47,751 --> 00:29:50,551
three, one or something like that. Or, or four, four, two.

632
00:29:51,111 --> 00:29:53,951
>> Sarah : Yeah, I, I think it needs to be more

633
00:29:53,951 --> 00:29:56,151
than that. I, because

634
00:29:57,831 --> 00:30:00,551
what you want is you

635
00:30:00,551 --> 00:30:00,951
want,

636
00:30:03,321 --> 00:30:06,141
Abby to suddenly be like, oh, okay,

637
00:30:06,141 --> 00:30:08,741
so, or, or what you want is to be like,

638
00:30:08,741 --> 00:30:11,581
oh, okay, we're, we're definitely

639
00:30:11,661 --> 00:30:14,581
still in this post apocalyptic world, but now

640
00:30:14,581 --> 00:30:17,561
we're following this other person. And then

641
00:30:17,561 --> 00:30:18,921
as you follow the story,

642
00:30:20,521 --> 00:30:23,361
they, they become like, I'm seeing the world

643
00:30:23,361 --> 00:30:25,161
through their lens. This community,

644
00:30:26,121 --> 00:30:28,681
emphasis on community, is now my community

645
00:30:29,161 --> 00:30:31,961
in this world. And then the,

646
00:30:32,441 --> 00:30:35,241
the, and then by

647
00:30:35,401 --> 00:30:38,281
the course, because we had 10 episodes,

648
00:30:38,361 --> 00:30:41,121
nine episodes with Abby with Joel and

649
00:30:41,121 --> 00:30:41,641
Ellie.

650
00:30:42,611 --> 00:30:43,971
>> Will: I think season one was nine episodes.

651
00:30:44,131 --> 00:30:46,851
>> Sarah : Nine episodes. So, so you

652
00:30:46,851 --> 00:30:49,691
almost need to give as much weight if

653
00:30:49,691 --> 00:30:52,691
you're gonna introduce a whole new character and

654
00:30:52,691 --> 00:30:55,371
a whole new world and, and

655
00:30:55,371 --> 00:30:57,331
arguably community

656
00:30:58,291 --> 00:31:00,451
that the viewers become attached to.

657
00:31:01,651 --> 00:31:04,451
I will say there is one character that was not introduced

658
00:31:04,451 --> 00:31:07,451
this season that I'm definitely looking forward

659
00:31:07,451 --> 00:31:10,151
to because they are awesome.

660
00:31:11,431 --> 00:31:14,431
Oh, I just, I can't wait. And they

661
00:31:14,431 --> 00:31:16,311
are very critical to Abby's story.

662
00:31:16,951 --> 00:31:19,871
>> Will: So, like, story. Yeah. So

663
00:31:19,871 --> 00:31:22,551
what did you think about? Because I know there's been

664
00:31:22,711 --> 00:31:25,031
some. I know some of the discourse was

665
00:31:25,511 --> 00:31:28,271
what was going on with, With Jeffrey

666
00:31:28,271 --> 00:31:31,221
Wright, with, With Isaac. because I just felt,

667
00:31:31,221 --> 00:31:34,101
again, to the point about cutscenes, this is one example where I

668
00:31:34,101 --> 00:31:37,021
felt like this was a, a, a, a, a

669
00:31:37,021 --> 00:31:39,941
scene that was just added because, you know, we have Jeffrey Wright, so we're

670
00:31:39,941 --> 00:31:42,901
gonna, we're gonna use that. Jeff, Jeffrey F. And Wright. But

671
00:31:43,381 --> 00:31:46,101
overall, I just didn't know how it, like, played through the

672
00:31:46,101 --> 00:31:48,341
whole. With the rest of the episode.

673
00:31:50,741 --> 00:31:53,661
I just seemed. Yeah, it just seemed kind of like, okay, we're just

674
00:31:53,661 --> 00:31:56,181
gonna throw it in here and then. Or,

675
00:31:56,421 --> 00:31:59,141
or was it for. To set or was it supposed to meant.

676
00:32:02,691 --> 00:32:05,011
>> Sarah : I. Everything is set up. Yeah,

677
00:32:05,491 --> 00:32:08,451
everything. Because arguably this entire season is

678
00:32:08,451 --> 00:32:10,771
set up because, like,

679
00:32:11,171 --> 00:32:13,891
again, it's that continuation of.

680
00:32:18,771 --> 00:32:21,451
We only got so much of the star fights in the

681
00:32:21,451 --> 00:32:22,291
wlf.

682
00:32:22,611 --> 00:32:23,051
>> Will: Yeah.

683
00:32:23,051 --> 00:32:25,651
>> Sarah : Because only Ellie only knows so much.

684
00:32:26,211 --> 00:32:28,611
But this season was told through her

685
00:32:28,611 --> 00:32:31,491
perspective. So we as viewers are like, these

686
00:32:31,491 --> 00:32:33,921
are crumbs. And, and

687
00:32:33,921 --> 00:32:36,801
arguably that's why it, that scene in particular

688
00:32:37,041 --> 00:32:39,721
probably felt thrown in there because it's

689
00:32:39,721 --> 00:32:42,281
suddenly like, Abby's, not there.

690
00:32:42,361 --> 00:32:45,161
Ellie's not there. Actually, scratch the first

691
00:32:45,161 --> 00:32:47,721
part. Ellie's not there. So what are we doing?

692
00:32:47,881 --> 00:32:50,601
Like, why do, why do we care? Like, it's so

693
00:32:50,601 --> 00:32:53,081
random. They got away with it in the previous

694
00:32:53,241 --> 00:32:55,961
episodes because they used them as cold

695
00:32:55,961 --> 00:32:56,521
opens.

696
00:32:56,761 --> 00:32:59,721
>> Will: Right? Yeah. See, I was missing the cold open. I, I,

697
00:32:59,801 --> 00:33:02,581
I was like, I thought of you as soon as the opening

698
00:33:02,581 --> 00:33:05,341
credit started. I was like, well, no cold open this week.

699
00:33:05,501 --> 00:33:08,301
>> Sarah : So, so, so then when you,

700
00:33:08,301 --> 00:33:11,301
when you put it that way, it's like, if they had

701
00:33:11,301 --> 00:33:13,901
taken that scene, moved it to the beginning,

702
00:33:14,221 --> 00:33:17,011
used it as a cold open, I, think it would it

703
00:33:17,011 --> 00:33:19,811
have, yeah. Would it have worked better and would

704
00:33:19,811 --> 00:33:21,931
it, like, not stuck out as much?

705
00:33:22,171 --> 00:33:23,691
>> Will: It would have worked so much better.

706
00:33:24,091 --> 00:33:26,041
>> Sarah : Right, Right. Like,

707
00:33:26,681 --> 00:33:29,681
they're, I think

708
00:33:29,681 --> 00:33:32,161
they just made missteps with this whole

709
00:33:32,161 --> 00:33:34,761
idea of Ellie's perspective

710
00:33:35,401 --> 00:33:38,051
where, Where I think

711
00:33:38,131 --> 00:33:40,691
something that arguably

712
00:33:40,771 --> 00:33:43,411
was so subtle in this episode

713
00:33:45,011 --> 00:33:47,411
that, that I think because

714
00:33:47,811 --> 00:33:50,571
of the, Everything else that is

715
00:33:50,571 --> 00:33:53,331
being talked about regarding it, I think it's lost.

716
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,480
And they, it should have been given more time and really

717
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,920
fleshed out was this idea that,

718
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:01,920
in a way,

719
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:05,760
Ellie betrays Dina.

720
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:07,040
>> Will: Yeah.

721
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,520
>> Sarah : And I, and I say that way

722
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,160
because Dina,

723
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,560
up until this point has only

724
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,400
been given so much of the truth. Like, yes,

725
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,251
they, she knows that Ellie

726
00:34:21,731 --> 00:34:24,621
is, is immune, but

727
00:34:25,181 --> 00:34:27,981
she never, like, they never

728
00:34:27,981 --> 00:34:30,781
made. Ellie never told her the

729
00:34:30,781 --> 00:34:32,941
connection about that

730
00:34:33,261 --> 00:34:36,061
immunity. Abby's

731
00:34:36,061 --> 00:34:38,701
father and why Joel

732
00:34:40,541 --> 00:34:43,541
died. Like, Joel died because

733
00:34:43,541 --> 00:34:46,471
of his own choice. And he said it himself, he

734
00:34:46,471 --> 00:34:48,351
would never not make that choice.

735
00:34:48,671 --> 00:34:49,311
>> Will: Yep.

736
00:34:49,311 --> 00:34:52,191
>> Sarah : That will always be his choice. And that's

737
00:34:52,191 --> 00:34:54,711
something that Jesse or no

738
00:34:54,711 --> 00:34:57,561
Tommy says in this episode. is

739
00:34:57,561 --> 00:34:59,961
that they made their choices after,

740
00:35:00,281 --> 00:35:03,041
after Ellie and cold blood kills a pregnant

741
00:35:03,041 --> 00:35:06,001
lady. pregnant very much in

742
00:35:06,001 --> 00:35:07,731
cold blood. And

743
00:35:09,491 --> 00:35:12,291
so, so again you have these characters making

744
00:35:12,291 --> 00:35:15,251
choices, but it's that idea

745
00:35:15,251 --> 00:35:17,971
like I'm the hero and I'm right because I'm

746
00:35:18,371 --> 00:35:21,251
doing this for me and community and

747
00:35:21,251 --> 00:35:22,851
all like my family.

748
00:35:24,291 --> 00:35:26,451
But, but then it goes back to, well,

749
00:35:27,091 --> 00:35:29,571
is your family more important than my family?

750
00:35:30,051 --> 00:35:31,011
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

751
00:35:31,011 --> 00:35:33,971
>> Sarah : Like, and that was Jesse's whole point. And that's why

752
00:35:34,171 --> 00:35:36,081
I, I think you and others,

753
00:35:36,881 --> 00:35:39,041
like we wanted more Jesse or

754
00:35:39,601 --> 00:35:42,361
he felt like his scenes were like so

755
00:35:42,361 --> 00:35:44,681
good because it was more of the

756
00:35:44,681 --> 00:35:47,281
rationale and like a grounding

757
00:35:47,281 --> 00:35:49,601
force in this very chaotic.

758
00:35:50,081 --> 00:35:50,641
>> Will: Yeah.

759
00:35:52,881 --> 00:35:55,601
Yeah. He was to grown up in the room because

760
00:35:56,241 --> 00:35:58,841
he, because he you know, even tell. You know, because you know,

761
00:35:58,841 --> 00:36:01,841
Ellie all this time thought that, you know, possibly he was

762
00:36:01,841 --> 00:36:04,691
one of the few votes that she received. And then

763
00:36:04,691 --> 00:36:06,971
he's like, no, no.

764
00:36:06,971 --> 00:36:09,891
>> Sarah : And I, and I think, and you know, to go back to

765
00:36:09,891 --> 00:36:12,851
Dina, like she finds out

766
00:36:12,851 --> 00:36:15,491
the truth and even she's

767
00:36:15,491 --> 00:36:18,371
now very subtly second guessing

768
00:36:18,450 --> 00:36:21,171
but we don't get enough of it. Like

769
00:36:22,931 --> 00:36:25,731
feels too quick with her. Like just like

770
00:36:25,891 --> 00:36:28,891
are for argument's sake. It was too quick for that

771
00:36:28,891 --> 00:36:31,651
kiss. Like, like, it was

772
00:36:31,651 --> 00:36:34,171
like it was like you're not even gonna question this

773
00:36:34,171 --> 00:36:37,131
immunity thing. Like, like,

774
00:36:37,611 --> 00:36:39,851
like you don't have any questions about that.

775
00:36:40,411 --> 00:36:42,171
But now like

776
00:36:44,171 --> 00:36:47,051
so, so that could have been fleshed out more.

777
00:36:47,911 --> 00:36:50,711
the, the other thing is the Tommy of it all.

778
00:36:51,911 --> 00:36:54,551
Like I, I,

779
00:36:54,711 --> 00:36:57,541
I wonder if, if

780
00:36:57,861 --> 00:36:58,981
we had,

781
00:37:01,701 --> 00:37:04,621
if they didn't, if they didn't go for

782
00:37:04,621 --> 00:37:07,581
the Jesse saves Dina

783
00:37:07,581 --> 00:37:10,301
and Ellie in the nick of time because they

784
00:37:10,301 --> 00:37:11,141
followed them.

785
00:37:12,981 --> 00:37:15,821
And, and we actually like went

786
00:37:15,821 --> 00:37:18,621
back and forth between Ellie and Dina and then

787
00:37:18,621 --> 00:37:21,301
Jesse and Tommy on their trail

788
00:37:22,191 --> 00:37:24,991
like that. And then we could have gotten

789
00:37:24,991 --> 00:37:27,551
some more insight into a

790
00:37:28,191 --> 00:37:30,111
Tommy's whole grief process.

791
00:37:31,391 --> 00:37:34,111
And also this whole talk

792
00:37:34,111 --> 00:37:36,951
about like, but is what

793
00:37:36,951 --> 00:37:39,391
Ellie doing selfish or

794
00:37:40,191 --> 00:37:43,151
like and that's not really the moral dilemma. But like,

795
00:37:43,631 --> 00:37:46,471
like this idea like she's seeking

796
00:37:46,471 --> 00:37:49,151
vengeance versus

797
00:37:49,711 --> 00:37:52,111
trying to protect Jackson.

798
00:37:52,751 --> 00:37:55,391
Yeah, like,

799
00:37:55,951 --> 00:37:57,551
like and, and

800
00:37:59,781 --> 00:38:02,021
yeah, it's just. But she also.

801
00:38:02,501 --> 00:38:05,501
There's a guilt there too that

802
00:38:05,501 --> 00:38:08,461
I think they again I, the

803
00:38:08,461 --> 00:38:11,221
the complexity of Ellie.

804
00:38:12,101 --> 00:38:14,581
I think instead of be

805
00:38:14,741 --> 00:38:17,701
being viewed and being explained

806
00:38:18,741 --> 00:38:21,741
in a Very delicate way that

807
00:38:21,741 --> 00:38:24,421
allowed all of the different layers to seep

808
00:38:24,421 --> 00:38:27,221
through. It came off

809
00:38:28,901 --> 00:38:31,221
as being very messy,

810
00:38:31,781 --> 00:38:34,421
very sporadic

811
00:38:35,061 --> 00:38:36,421
and just

812
00:38:38,501 --> 00:38:41,461
clear. Vengeance. Or I'm a

813
00:38:41,461 --> 00:38:44,141
scared little girl who misses her dad.

814
00:38:44,621 --> 00:38:45,101
>> Will: Yeah.

815
00:38:45,421 --> 00:38:47,821
>> Sarah : And it was, it's. It's too much.

816
00:38:48,541 --> 00:38:50,221
And, and I think

817
00:38:51,181 --> 00:38:53,021
that that's why

818
00:38:53,901 --> 00:38:56,421
this season is being

819
00:38:56,421 --> 00:38:59,101
viewed through the, through this lens of

820
00:38:59,101 --> 00:39:01,901
chaoticness and just like, okay,

821
00:39:01,901 --> 00:39:04,661
what, what. What are we doing? What. What are we doing

822
00:39:04,661 --> 00:39:04,941
here?

823
00:39:04,941 --> 00:39:06,401
>> Will: What are we doing? Yeah, what are we doing?

824
00:39:06,401 --> 00:39:07,321
>> Sarah : Why do we care?

825
00:39:07,721 --> 00:39:10,201
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that's the. I mean, I guess I,

826
00:39:11,431 --> 00:39:14,351
Yeah, maybe that's. I think that's the core. I just

827
00:39:14,351 --> 00:39:17,231
like, why should I care? Why. Why should I be invested

828
00:39:17,231 --> 00:39:19,471
in, in, in a vengeance story.

829
00:39:20,191 --> 00:39:20,671
>> Sarah : Yes.

830
00:39:21,471 --> 00:39:24,111
>> Will: And, and, and I've seen, you know, and we've seen.

831
00:39:24,111 --> 00:39:27,031
And part of it is probably, you know, I'll

832
00:39:27,031 --> 00:39:29,911
call a spade a spade. I mean, I think there is

833
00:39:29,911 --> 00:39:32,361
some gender bias towards that.

834
00:39:32,681 --> 00:39:35,131
You know, you know, because I think if this were a

835
00:39:35,211 --> 00:39:38,091
male character, I think some of us,

836
00:39:38,411 --> 00:39:41,131
including me, would probably, I mean, you know,

837
00:39:41,451 --> 00:39:44,371
we'll probably view it a little bit differently. Give a little bit more grace,

838
00:39:44,371 --> 00:39:47,281
I should say. I still will probably at the end of the

839
00:39:47,281 --> 00:39:50,281
day be like, why, why, why should I care? But

840
00:39:50,281 --> 00:39:53,081
I do think there, that there is some element of that

841
00:39:53,081 --> 00:39:53,361
also.

842
00:39:54,161 --> 00:39:56,641
>> Sarah : Oh, I never thought about that, but

843
00:39:57,521 --> 00:40:00,161
that's interesting. Ah, that.

844
00:40:02,161 --> 00:40:04,641
Yeah, yeah. Oh, and also,

845
00:40:05,201 --> 00:40:08,011
do you think, not just sexism, but

846
00:40:08,091 --> 00:40:08,801
homophobia.

847
00:40:08,801 --> 00:40:11,451
>> Will: Ah, yeah, that too, yeah, I think,

848
00:40:11,451 --> 00:40:14,331
yeah, I think both of those lenses, I mean. Yeah, I mean, I

849
00:40:14,331 --> 00:40:17,211
think, I mean you just look at the discourse, you know, I've

850
00:40:17,211 --> 00:40:20,171
been slowly creeping back into social media.

851
00:40:20,971 --> 00:40:21,451
>> Sarah : Yeah.

852
00:40:21,611 --> 00:40:24,451
>> Will: To see what the, to see what the discourse is about these shows.

853
00:40:24,451 --> 00:40:27,251
And, and you know, and I think that

854
00:40:27,251 --> 00:40:30,201
there is some element of that. yeah, I think that, you

855
00:40:30,201 --> 00:40:31,441
know, but,

856
00:40:33,601 --> 00:40:36,401
and so, but also like I said too

857
00:40:36,401 --> 00:40:39,281
earlier, while we're recording them, I m. Do you know, I

858
00:40:39,281 --> 00:40:42,201
also have to remind myself too that this is a 19 year old kid,

859
00:40:42,201 --> 00:40:44,321
whether it's a male or female. And,

860
00:40:45,281 --> 00:40:48,041
and so they're going to, they're

861
00:40:48,041 --> 00:40:50,401
reacting in a way, ah. That a teenager would.

862
00:40:50,751 --> 00:40:53,671
Versus and, and so, so

863
00:40:53,671 --> 00:40:56,631
when the Jesse's of the world or the Maria's of

864
00:40:56,631 --> 00:40:59,551
the world come up, you know, because Maria was also the same way too.

865
00:40:59,551 --> 00:41:02,551
She's like, but the council, she's like, I gotta. I

866
00:41:02,551 --> 00:41:05,061
got a bigger, you know, we, we have to like make sure

867
00:41:05,301 --> 00:41:08,221
we gotta keep all our resources here in Jackson because they're you know, we

868
00:41:08,221 --> 00:41:11,061
just, like, had the Horde attack here, so I'm glad, you know. You

869
00:41:11,061 --> 00:41:14,021
know, you brought up Jack. You know, we spent time in Jackson that

870
00:41:14,021 --> 00:41:16,661
actually, it was a very smart thing of them to, like,

871
00:41:17,101 --> 00:41:19,901
put that in the show because it

872
00:41:19,901 --> 00:41:21,021
gives, you know, because

873
00:41:23,741 --> 00:41:26,541
adds to the discussions that we had

874
00:41:26,541 --> 00:41:29,301
with Jesse and Ellie in this episode about

875
00:41:29,301 --> 00:41:32,221
Community and the stakes as far as why this

876
00:41:32,221 --> 00:41:35,061
was a bad idea to go off and do

877
00:41:35,061 --> 00:41:35,341
this.

878
00:41:36,381 --> 00:41:39,301
>> Sarah : Yeah. And why Tommy

879
00:41:39,301 --> 00:41:40,221
didn't go with her.

880
00:41:40,621 --> 00:41:41,341
>> Will: Exactly.

881
00:41:41,581 --> 00:41:44,401
>> Sarah : It's a, forgiving. It's a forgiveness thing,

882
00:41:44,401 --> 00:41:47,201
too, because it's like in the back of your mind, you're like,

883
00:41:47,201 --> 00:41:48,121
where's Tommy?

884
00:41:48,361 --> 00:41:48,921
>> Will: Yeah.

885
00:41:50,041 --> 00:41:52,841
>> Sarah : Which. Which I. I would like them to

886
00:41:52,841 --> 00:41:55,521
explain about why they didn't utilize Tommy

887
00:41:55,521 --> 00:41:58,201
more. but

888
00:41:58,201 --> 00:42:00,721
maybe they're saving some stuff. I don't know.

889
00:42:01,281 --> 00:42:04,281
But I. I do feel like. And. And I

890
00:42:04,281 --> 00:42:07,161
can see why they. We spent majority of time

891
00:42:07,161 --> 00:42:10,041
with Jesse because this, like, was going to be his last

892
00:42:10,041 --> 00:42:12,851
episode, so you really wanted

893
00:42:12,851 --> 00:42:15,651
to send. Send him off. Well,

894
00:42:16,291 --> 00:42:19,091
and you. You still got

895
00:42:19,091 --> 00:42:21,811
Tommy to. To play with, so.

896
00:42:22,051 --> 00:42:22,531
>> Will: Yeah.

897
00:42:22,531 --> 00:42:23,011
>> Sarah : Arguably.

898
00:42:23,571 --> 00:42:26,531
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Said he found out

899
00:42:26,531 --> 00:42:29,531
he was gonna be a father. I was like, oh, he's dead. I don't need

900
00:42:29,531 --> 00:42:30,211
a cutscene.

901
00:42:30,691 --> 00:42:33,451
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. You know, you

902
00:42:33,451 --> 00:42:36,291
don't need. You don't need to know. But

903
00:42:37,741 --> 00:42:37,951
I,

904
00:42:40,481 --> 00:42:43,031
I, I, What? So. So

905
00:42:43,271 --> 00:42:45,911
speaking about, like, why do I care or anything.

906
00:42:46,231 --> 00:42:46,711
>> Will: Yeah.

907
00:42:46,871 --> 00:42:48,871
>> Sarah : Because I was. I was very

908
00:42:49,271 --> 00:42:51,991
excited when I saw the stadium.

909
00:42:52,631 --> 00:42:54,631
>> Will: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

910
00:42:55,991 --> 00:42:58,911
>> Sarah : And then that triggered so many. There

911
00:42:58,911 --> 00:43:01,601
is a sequence that

912
00:43:02,161 --> 00:43:04,981
I am, And you know me well. This is an

913
00:43:04,981 --> 00:43:07,301
action sequence, and this is

914
00:43:07,301 --> 00:43:10,221
gameplay, and I am. I

915
00:43:10,221 --> 00:43:13,141
am betting they're gonna do it. And it's

916
00:43:13,141 --> 00:43:15,461
just. I will say this

917
00:43:16,261 --> 00:43:18,501
a part of me, as much as I love,

918
00:43:18,971 --> 00:43:20,091
Caitlin Deaver,

919
00:43:21,771 --> 00:43:24,731
I wish, like, for this specific

920
00:43:24,731 --> 00:43:27,491
sequence, I wish Florence Pugh was

921
00:43:27,491 --> 00:43:27,971
cast.

922
00:43:30,371 --> 00:43:32,531
>> Will: The physicality of it. Oh, yeah.

923
00:43:32,531 --> 00:43:35,371
>> Sarah : Just because of what she did with thunderbolts. I'm

924
00:43:35,371 --> 00:43:38,251
like, oh, my God. She would have had a field

925
00:43:38,251 --> 00:43:40,531
day with this sequence. And so

926
00:43:40,931 --> 00:43:43,491
I, like, I

927
00:43:44,291 --> 00:43:45,811
seen that stadium.

928
00:43:46,451 --> 00:43:47,011
>> Will: Yeah.

929
00:43:47,331 --> 00:43:50,251
>> Sarah : It's just like, okay, we

930
00:43:50,251 --> 00:43:51,971
saw, like,

931
00:43:53,131 --> 00:43:55,851
10 of Seattle, y' all. Yeah.

932
00:43:56,491 --> 00:43:59,411
Okay. Daisy, like, there. There is

933
00:43:59,411 --> 00:44:02,251
some. There are some very cool a

934
00:44:02,331 --> 00:44:04,651
characters, as I've previously teased,

935
00:44:05,211 --> 00:44:07,691
and sequences that are in

936
00:44:07,691 --> 00:44:10,331
store beyond just the

937
00:44:10,811 --> 00:44:12,481
vengeance and, the

938
00:44:13,761 --> 00:44:16,481
seeing things through Abby's perspective. Like,

939
00:44:16,641 --> 00:44:19,611
they're. I

940
00:44:19,611 --> 00:44:21,771
feel like in season three,

941
00:44:22,331 --> 00:44:25,291
we are gonna go back and get some

942
00:44:25,291 --> 00:44:28,091
more of those basics and get more of those

943
00:44:28,171 --> 00:44:30,971
other stories that feed into your main

944
00:44:31,051 --> 00:44:33,991
overall storyline. I

945
00:44:33,991 --> 00:44:36,991
understand Like, I can. I. I

946
00:44:36,991 --> 00:44:38,871
get why they did it this way.

947
00:44:42,411 --> 00:44:45,391
but at the same time, I. I

948
00:44:45,391 --> 00:44:48,391
feel like it was a missed opportunity

949
00:44:49,271 --> 00:44:52,071
to put back on that. Well,

950
00:44:52,151 --> 00:44:53,991
this worked this way in the game,

951
00:44:55,431 --> 00:44:57,991
but the game players didn't even like that.

952
00:44:59,351 --> 00:45:02,191
Maybe. Maybe we should have tweaked it a

953
00:45:02,191 --> 00:45:03,031
little bit more.

954
00:45:05,831 --> 00:45:06,231
So.

955
00:45:06,471 --> 00:45:09,351
>> Will: So, yeah. Speaking of which, there.

956
00:45:09,591 --> 00:45:12,391
There was one thing, I guess. I think I read this somewhere.

957
00:45:12,891 --> 00:45:15,731
but I guess the scene with the. To your point about set setting

958
00:45:15,731 --> 00:45:18,661
things up, and the gameplay that. I guess the scene where

959
00:45:18,661 --> 00:45:21,531
Ellie was on the island with the With the Seraphites,

960
00:45:21,511 --> 00:45:24,301
that was supposed to be in the game, but it actually got cut out.

961
00:45:25,021 --> 00:45:27,940
M. So I guess they were able to utilize. Utilize

962
00:45:27,940 --> 00:45:30,331
it, for. For this, you know, in this episode.

963
00:45:30,981 --> 00:45:33,711
you know, because something you said earlier, that,

964
00:45:33,981 --> 00:45:36,271
whenever we're talking about Isaac and you know

965
00:45:37,791 --> 00:45:40,271
what. You know, the things are going on with the WLF and.

966
00:45:40,431 --> 00:45:43,311
And the. The war there.

967
00:45:43,471 --> 00:45:46,351
So, I mean, so I guess they added. To your point, they added

968
00:45:46,351 --> 00:45:48,951
this scene here just so they could have it, you know, show the

969
00:45:48,951 --> 00:45:51,911
Seraphites, show what's going on. Probably what was going on with

970
00:45:51,911 --> 00:45:53,711
Abby, you know, maybe.

971
00:45:53,871 --> 00:45:54,271
>> Sarah : Well.

972
00:45:57,231 --> 00:45:59,761
>> Will: I, might be. I don't want to. I want to say anything for folks.

973
00:46:00,001 --> 00:46:02,291
I think. I think I know

974
00:46:02,691 --> 00:46:04,531
possible something. So I don't want to say anything.

975
00:46:05,251 --> 00:46:07,651
>> Sarah : A spoiler alert. Say what you want to say.

976
00:46:08,371 --> 00:46:11,251
>> Will: All right. Spoiler alert. So

977
00:46:11,571 --> 00:46:14,371
it. So spoiler alert. I. I want to say.

978
00:46:14,931 --> 00:46:17,851
Was Abby like captured by the Seraphites as

979
00:46:17,851 --> 00:46:20,811
she escaped prior to her getting to

980
00:46:20,811 --> 00:46:23,651
the theater and you know, discovering.

981
00:46:23,651 --> 00:46:24,691
Discovering the crew?

982
00:46:25,491 --> 00:46:28,451
>> Sarah : So people have pointed out that,

983
00:46:28,451 --> 00:46:31,051
ah, if you look closely at Abby

984
00:46:31,211 --> 00:46:34,091
at her throat, there is a clear scar

985
00:46:34,251 --> 00:46:36,891
there from. From a rope.

986
00:46:37,051 --> 00:46:39,771
So. So. So that I. I think.

987
00:46:39,851 --> 00:46:42,811
I think that those who care have

988
00:46:42,811 --> 00:46:45,371
probably seen a bunch of people point that out.

989
00:46:45,451 --> 00:46:48,371
So. So I can. So

990
00:46:48,371 --> 00:46:51,211
when you brought up that scene and saying how it was cut

991
00:46:51,211 --> 00:46:52,651
from the game originally.

992
00:46:54,041 --> 00:46:56,761
Well, I don't know if it's set up so much

993
00:46:56,761 --> 00:46:59,561
as. Again, the point is

994
00:46:59,881 --> 00:47:01,961
to try to do as much

995
00:47:02,441 --> 00:47:05,161
mirroring as possible between these two.

996
00:47:05,881 --> 00:47:08,641
So I think with Ellie and inserting the

997
00:47:08,641 --> 00:47:10,841
scene where she fails

998
00:47:11,481 --> 00:47:14,441
horribly on the boat, I don't know why she got back

999
00:47:14,441 --> 00:47:17,201
on it only to be washed

1000
00:47:17,201 --> 00:47:20,061
ashore. And then she. She gets back pulled

1001
00:47:20,061 --> 00:47:23,061
away by not the wlf. She's

1002
00:47:23,061 --> 00:47:25,901
viewed by the Seraphites as a member of

1003
00:47:25,901 --> 00:47:28,501
the wlf. She's viewed

1004
00:47:28,981 --> 00:47:30,981
as part of Abby's community.

1005
00:47:31,781 --> 00:47:34,581
Yeah, like. Like

1006
00:47:34,661 --> 00:47:37,381
there are so Many similarities between

1007
00:47:37,461 --> 00:47:40,261
these two people that I think it just

1008
00:47:40,341 --> 00:47:42,341
furthers that.

1009
00:47:43,501 --> 00:47:46,331
And. And yeah, there. There's a reason. And.

1010
00:47:46,331 --> 00:47:49,131
And you could also make the argument that

1011
00:47:49,131 --> 00:47:52,031
if you watch Owen and Mel's

1012
00:47:52,031 --> 00:47:54,671
conversation, they. They

1013
00:47:54,671 --> 00:47:57,631
hint. I mean, Mel says that would put

1014
00:47:57,631 --> 00:48:00,591
you behind enemy lines. We know the enemies,

1015
00:48:00,591 --> 00:48:02,911
the Seraphites. Like, she.

1016
00:48:03,231 --> 00:48:05,831
Abby is clearly in a very

1017
00:48:05,831 --> 00:48:08,831
dangerous place because Owen

1018
00:48:09,311 --> 00:48:12,031
is going to risk it all to go after her.

1019
00:48:12,191 --> 00:48:15,071
So now what she's doing there and

1020
00:48:15,071 --> 00:48:17,631
how she got there, that has yet to be revealed.

1021
00:48:17,941 --> 00:48:19,301
But, yeah. Yeah.

1022
00:48:19,861 --> 00:48:19,911
>> Will: Okay.

1023
00:48:20,741 --> 00:48:23,621
>> Sarah : so there. I. I mean, I.

1024
00:48:23,621 --> 00:48:26,501
I really think you hit the nail on the hammer when you said

1025
00:48:26,501 --> 00:48:28,981
it just felt like a bunch of cutscenes. Because it is.

1026
00:48:29,461 --> 00:48:31,061
Because they can't.

1027
00:48:32,421 --> 00:48:35,101
They can't flesh out

1028
00:48:35,101 --> 00:48:38,021
these things because it's all through. It's.

1029
00:48:38,261 --> 00:48:40,261
Then that's telling Abby's story.

1030
00:48:40,661 --> 00:48:41,141
>> Will: Yeah.

1031
00:48:41,381 --> 00:48:44,231
>> Sarah : And so I think, So

1032
00:48:44,471 --> 00:48:47,031
maybe people got curious and are getting.

1033
00:48:47,751 --> 00:48:50,751
As time goes past, they get more curious about, like,

1034
00:48:50,751 --> 00:48:53,711
what did that mean? What was going on here? I

1035
00:48:53,711 --> 00:48:56,551
mean, like, you're. Like, you pointed out before, they

1036
00:48:56,551 --> 00:48:59,511
have Jeffrey Wright. Why did

1037
00:48:59,511 --> 00:49:01,911
Jeffrey Wright sign up for, like, two

1038
00:49:01,991 --> 00:49:02,711
scenes?

1039
00:49:04,791 --> 00:49:07,591
He's. He's got so, like, there.

1040
00:49:08,071 --> 00:49:11,001
The. It's a. It's a. It's a different story.

1041
00:49:11,871 --> 00:49:14,631
but something that I

1042
00:49:14,631 --> 00:49:17,511
think arguably did

1043
00:49:17,511 --> 00:49:20,471
work to an extent, even though

1044
00:49:20,471 --> 00:49:23,231
frustrating, even though a bit redundant, is

1045
00:49:23,231 --> 00:49:26,111
that this

1046
00:49:26,271 --> 00:49:28,831
same choice that Joel

1047
00:49:28,911 --> 00:49:31,071
made at the end of season

1048
00:49:31,471 --> 00:49:33,871
1M is just

1049
00:49:35,401 --> 00:49:37,881
ricocheting and reoccurring

1050
00:49:39,081 --> 00:49:41,961
in Seattle. And it's not.

1051
00:49:42,761 --> 00:49:45,241
It's not one choice. It's choices

1052
00:49:46,121 --> 00:49:47,481
and it's people.

1053
00:49:48,201 --> 00:49:48,761
>> Will: Yeah.

1054
00:49:48,901 --> 00:49:51,862
>> Sarah : And. And I. So.

1055
00:49:51,942 --> 00:49:54,422
So to an extent, they are building

1056
00:49:54,662 --> 00:49:57,632
that, there's just some

1057
00:49:57,632 --> 00:49:59,712
other structural and

1058
00:50:00,512 --> 00:50:02,952
creative choices that. That

1059
00:50:02,952 --> 00:50:05,952
argument argumentatively, they could

1060
00:50:05,952 --> 00:50:08,112
have made differently and could have done better.

1061
00:50:08,872 --> 00:50:11,872
and season three will tell us how much

1062
00:50:11,872 --> 00:50:13,112
season two worked.

1063
00:50:13,512 --> 00:50:15,992
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I will say after our

1064
00:50:15,992 --> 00:50:17,672
conversation tonight, my. My,

1065
00:50:19,922 --> 00:50:22,312
My, score for this

1066
00:50:22,312 --> 00:50:25,152
episode definitely goes up from fine to. It was

1067
00:50:25,152 --> 00:50:26,312
really. Actually, it was pretty good.

1068
00:50:27,592 --> 00:50:30,072
>> Sarah : Yeah. I. I think

1069
00:50:30,312 --> 00:50:33,192
that the initial watch,

1070
00:50:34,392 --> 00:50:37,112
like, it's like, okay, that was fine,

1071
00:50:37,272 --> 00:50:40,232
but the more you dissect it and

1072
00:50:41,432 --> 00:50:44,432
it's like, no, actually that. That was a

1073
00:50:44,432 --> 00:50:47,222
good episode of tv. it just.

1074
00:50:47,462 --> 00:50:50,342
The season overall leaves a bad taste in

1075
00:50:50,342 --> 00:50:51,222
everyone's mouth.

1076
00:50:51,922 --> 00:50:52,242
>> Will: Yeah.

1077
00:50:52,482 --> 00:50:55,362
>> Sarah : Because of. And. And it's not. Yeah, it's

1078
00:50:55,362 --> 00:50:58,162
the ending, but it's. It's. It's.

1079
00:50:58,882 --> 00:51:01,602
You could have. That ending could have worked

1080
00:51:01,682 --> 00:51:04,522
just like in any other TV show. It's all of the

1081
00:51:04,522 --> 00:51:07,401
events Leading up to it, like, yeah,

1082
00:51:07,401 --> 00:51:10,362
it's like. It's like people to walk

1083
00:51:10,362 --> 00:51:12,642
away and say, yeah, the ending sucked. Well,

1084
00:51:13,522 --> 00:51:16,002
you only feel that way because

1085
00:51:16,482 --> 00:51:18,242
the build up, like,

1086
00:51:19,202 --> 00:51:22,122
totally. It left you in this other

1087
00:51:22,122 --> 00:51:22,962
way, so.

1088
00:51:23,362 --> 00:51:26,322
>> Will: No, no, because, I mean, to me, the ending worked great

1089
00:51:26,322 --> 00:51:29,162
for me. I mean, that was. That was the after. After

1090
00:51:29,162 --> 00:51:32,002
being frustrated for like, however many 40

1091
00:51:32,002 --> 00:51:34,882
minutes or 45, however long it was. I. Yeah, I was

1092
00:51:34,882 --> 00:51:37,842
just done. And then. And then we. Abby wakes up,

1093
00:51:38,082 --> 00:51:40,522
and I'm like, you know, and we get that

1094
00:51:40,522 --> 00:51:43,412
amazing scene at the stadium. And, you know, I'm

1095
00:51:43,412 --> 00:51:46,412
like, okay. You know, I was like, ah, Uh-huh. You

1096
00:51:46,412 --> 00:51:49,372
know, it's like, I get it, you know, so, you

1097
00:51:49,372 --> 00:51:52,292
know, so, you know, so for me, it was just like, oh, yeah,

1098
00:51:52,372 --> 00:51:55,292
it was just leading up to it, but, like. But as I

1099
00:51:55,292 --> 00:51:58,132
said, really dissecting it

1100
00:51:58,132 --> 00:52:01,092
and. And really discussing all the

1101
00:52:01,172 --> 00:52:04,052
disparate parts that were, like, pull together,

1102
00:52:04,612 --> 00:52:07,532
you know, in this episode. Yeah,

1103
00:52:07,532 --> 00:52:10,472
you know. Yeah, it was. It was. It was good. I

1104
00:52:10,472 --> 00:52:13,152
mean, I. I. You know, I said it was fine, but

1105
00:52:13,392 --> 00:52:15,682
it was good. It was a good episode. just.

1106
00:52:16,322 --> 00:52:18,762
Just at the end of the day, I think, just

1107
00:52:18,762 --> 00:52:21,512
overall, like, like we said earlier this

1108
00:52:21,512 --> 00:52:24,462
season, episodes four and five just kind of

1109
00:52:24,702 --> 00:52:27,182
felt like we were spinning our wheels, but, you know, but,

1110
00:52:27,482 --> 00:52:30,372
But I'm still. I'm still on the train. I'm not, You know, I

1111
00:52:30,372 --> 00:52:33,302
just. I just wish we could get the third season

1112
00:52:33,302 --> 00:52:36,182
sooner Than. Than. Than. Than. We'll

1113
00:52:36,182 --> 00:52:36,862
probably get it.

1114
00:52:37,502 --> 00:52:40,262
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, I

1115
00:52:40,262 --> 00:52:40,542
think,

1116
00:52:43,362 --> 00:52:45,922
it'll. It'll be here quicker than we realize.

1117
00:52:47,762 --> 00:52:50,562
It'll. It always happens that way.

1118
00:52:52,292 --> 00:52:54,972
I do just want to say, as a closing

1119
00:52:54,972 --> 00:52:57,772
thought, to quote Abby, I let you

1120
00:52:57,772 --> 00:52:59,132
live, and you wasted it.

1121
00:53:02,262 --> 00:53:04,982
Which. Which all. Ah, I hope

1122
00:53:04,982 --> 00:53:07,862
everyone, when she said that instantly went

1123
00:53:07,862 --> 00:53:10,462
back to when she was talking to

1124
00:53:10,462 --> 00:53:13,302
Joel, and Joel said, I saved you.

1125
00:53:13,302 --> 00:53:15,622
And she said in response,

1126
00:53:17,222 --> 00:53:19,702
what life? What life did you save?

1127
00:53:20,282 --> 00:53:23,062
M. Like, like, what life do I have?

1128
00:53:23,542 --> 00:53:26,432
So. So it's so, again,

1129
00:53:26,752 --> 00:53:29,512
the mirroring, albeit subtle

1130
00:53:29,512 --> 00:53:32,432
and disconnected, it is happening.

1131
00:53:33,102 --> 00:53:36,022
so, we shall flesh it all

1132
00:53:36,022 --> 00:53:38,942
out in 2027, if not

1133
00:53:38,942 --> 00:53:39,262
later.

1134
00:53:42,142 --> 00:53:44,852
>> Will: Speaking of 2027, if not

1135
00:53:44,852 --> 00:53:47,802
later, before we close out any other things,

1136
00:53:47,802 --> 00:53:50,672
on Last of us are we. Can we move to quick? Quick.

1137
00:53:50,912 --> 00:53:53,832
>> Sarah : That was a great, like, go tie

1138
00:53:53,832 --> 00:53:56,752
into this Avengers stuff. So I don't know.

1139
00:53:57,392 --> 00:54:00,112
>> Will: Yes, that's exactly. That's exactly where I was

1140
00:54:00,112 --> 00:54:02,912
going, because we did get news that the

1141
00:54:03,312 --> 00:54:06,072
Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret wars

1142
00:54:06,072 --> 00:54:08,882
is Going to be pushed back for I guess

1143
00:54:08,882 --> 00:54:11,002
seven months each. I guess. The

1144
00:54:12,262 --> 00:54:14,422
Doomsday originally was going to premiere in May

1145
00:54:14,422 --> 00:54:17,422
2026, but now star wars has that month all to

1146
00:54:17,422 --> 00:54:19,942
itself. Because Doomsday is now going to be December

1147
00:54:20,242 --> 00:54:23,202
19, 2026. And Secret wars will

1148
00:54:23,202 --> 00:54:25,792
now be a year later, December 17,

1149
00:54:25,918 --> 00:54:26,482
2027.

1150
00:54:28,722 --> 00:54:31,682
Because it's all about, and it's all about box office.

1151
00:54:31,922 --> 00:54:34,762
Because that's December is the Chris is the month that you're gonna make all your

1152
00:54:34,762 --> 00:54:35,282
money now.

1153
00:54:37,682 --> 00:54:40,482
>> Sarah : Oh, I thought it was because of cgi.

1154
00:54:41,282 --> 00:54:43,522
>> Will: Well, probably. Well, I'm sure that's probably it,

1155
00:54:44,882 --> 00:54:47,612
but yeah, yeah, but, but I mean, I, I,

1156
00:54:47,612 --> 00:54:50,322
I, but let me remember, I think was it

1157
00:54:50,322 --> 00:54:53,122
no Way Home didn't come out December. It was like a two billion

1158
00:54:53,122 --> 00:54:56,122
dollar movie or something like that, so. Or 1.9

1159
00:54:56,122 --> 00:54:58,752
million dollar movie. billion dollar movie. So

1160
00:54:58,912 --> 00:55:01,662
this is all box office. to me, I think,

1161
00:55:02,862 --> 00:55:04,302
yeah. Water pushing it back.

1162
00:55:04,302 --> 00:55:06,302
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, I think

1163
00:55:07,262 --> 00:55:09,662
they're, they're box office.

1164
00:55:10,302 --> 00:55:12,142
There's so many things. But

1165
00:55:14,972 --> 00:55:17,932
what, where did they originally have it? They originally had it in May,

1166
00:55:17,932 --> 00:55:18,252
right?

1167
00:55:18,252 --> 00:55:20,812
>> Will: In m. May. Yeah. That was usually, that was like, yeah.

1168
00:55:20,812 --> 00:55:22,012
>> Sarah : End game was in May.

1169
00:55:22,332 --> 00:55:23,132
>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

1170
00:55:23,292 --> 00:55:26,092
>> Sarah : So, so you could say box office, but

1171
00:55:26,732 --> 00:55:29,722
like to me it's just like, I

1172
00:55:29,722 --> 00:55:32,562
don't know because May is a, pretty much a box

1173
00:55:32,562 --> 00:55:35,482
office month as well in the past. So.

1174
00:55:35,482 --> 00:55:36,002
>> Will: Yeah.

1175
00:55:36,082 --> 00:55:38,562
>> Sarah : So like you can, you can

1176
00:55:38,952 --> 00:55:41,672
moving it later. It's not the best sign.

1177
00:55:41,912 --> 00:55:44,832
Like no, no studio ever wants to

1178
00:55:44,832 --> 00:55:47,712
push these things back. Which, which I'm

1179
00:55:47,712 --> 00:55:50,392
just like, you guys do it so constantly and

1180
00:55:50,392 --> 00:55:53,032
consistently. Why don't you just get better

1181
00:55:53,192 --> 00:55:56,152
ideas of when you like stop over

1182
00:55:56,152 --> 00:55:56,872
Promising.

1183
00:55:57,752 --> 00:56:00,552
>> Will: Yeah, but I mean, you know, I think, you know, but the thing is,

1184
00:56:01,122 --> 00:56:04,002
everything is so scheduled and you know, they don't like

1185
00:56:04,002 --> 00:56:07,002
ladies really. There's not a random thing. I think as far

1186
00:56:07,002 --> 00:56:08,882
as these release dates, I mean because they are, they.

1187
00:56:08,882 --> 00:56:11,292
>> Sarah : Are filming and why do they keep getting

1188
00:56:11,292 --> 00:56:11,972
delayed?

1189
00:56:12,612 --> 00:56:13,412
>> Will: I'm telling you.

1190
00:56:17,252 --> 00:56:19,932
>> Sarah : Okay, okay, so, so the

1191
00:56:19,932 --> 00:56:22,812
rock comes out and announces Black

1192
00:56:22,812 --> 00:56:24,292
Adam in 2014.

1193
00:56:25,492 --> 00:56:28,292
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. That's not a good example.

1194
00:56:29,412 --> 00:56:32,092
>> Sarah : Projects have been announced, canceled or

1195
00:56:32,092 --> 00:56:34,932
delayed. You know, like that, that's my

1196
00:56:34,932 --> 00:56:37,782
point. Point. I understand your point, but

1197
00:56:38,102 --> 00:56:40,582
I also considering

1198
00:56:40,742 --> 00:56:43,702
that May has, has also proven

1199
00:56:43,702 --> 00:56:45,782
to be very successful for box office.

1200
00:56:46,422 --> 00:56:46,982
>> Will: It is.

1201
00:56:47,222 --> 00:56:50,062
>> Sarah : I, I just, I, I, I

1202
00:56:50,062 --> 00:56:52,422
think like, I don't think it's random,

1203
00:56:52,902 --> 00:56:55,862
but I think whoever is deciding

1204
00:56:55,862 --> 00:56:58,822
these dates, they, they

1205
00:56:58,822 --> 00:57:00,262
suddenly got stupid.

1206
00:57:01,152 --> 00:57:01,472
>> Will: Yeah.

1207
00:57:03,392 --> 00:57:06,112
>> Sarah : There'S something in the water over there where

1208
00:57:06,112 --> 00:57:08,992
suddenly they're not as good as determining the dates

1209
00:57:08,992 --> 00:57:10,912
as they once were. That's all I'm saying.

1210
00:57:11,572 --> 00:57:14,532
>> Will: yeah, well also I think, I think, I think the other

1211
00:57:14,532 --> 00:57:17,252
thing too is I think the old, the old way of like releasing

1212
00:57:17,252 --> 00:57:19,972
films is just, you know, we

1213
00:57:20,052 --> 00:57:22,972
used to know like yeah. Ah, May, you know, there are like

1214
00:57:22,972 --> 00:57:25,812
certain tent pole months. Obviously May's one of them because it is the

1215
00:57:25,972 --> 00:57:28,412
kickoff to the summer. You know, you do have that mid summer

1216
00:57:28,412 --> 00:57:29,172
blockbuster.

1217
00:57:29,722 --> 00:57:29,962
>> Sarah : July.

1218
00:57:30,682 --> 00:57:33,452
>> Will: July. and then December now is like, you

1219
00:57:33,452 --> 00:57:36,252
know, you know, causes Christmas. So you know, so those are,

1220
00:57:36,252 --> 00:57:39,212
those are the, so you know that way Star wars

1221
00:57:39,212 --> 00:57:42,212
now because Mandalorian is still currently scheduled

1222
00:57:42,212 --> 00:57:45,092
for May 2026. So now star wars

1223
00:57:45,092 --> 00:57:47,012
has that month all free and

1224
00:57:47,812 --> 00:57:50,292
to, to do his thing and, and now,

1225
00:57:50,872 --> 00:57:53,792
>> Sarah : Well, you should have led with that because that makes

1226
00:57:53,792 --> 00:57:56,392
more sense in terms of property wise for

1227
00:57:56,392 --> 00:57:56,952
Disney.

1228
00:57:57,512 --> 00:57:57,832
>> Will: Yeah.

1229
00:57:57,912 --> 00:58:00,832
>> Sarah : Like why would you release two like those

1230
00:58:00,832 --> 00:58:03,392
two movies? To compete against each other. They're both

1231
00:58:03,392 --> 00:58:06,312
yours. So, so yeah, that makes War

1232
00:58:06,392 --> 00:58:09,032
way more sense in terms of box office

1233
00:58:09,112 --> 00:58:09,912
and money.

1234
00:58:10,392 --> 00:58:10,952
>> Will: Yep.

1235
00:58:12,812 --> 00:58:15,562
>> Sarah : the, the other thing that I,

1236
00:58:15,562 --> 00:58:18,552
I don't really want to get into but Will

1237
00:58:18,552 --> 00:58:21,232
has it on here, so I will say it. Harry Potter

1238
00:58:21,232 --> 00:58:22,522
cast little kids.

1239
00:58:23,242 --> 00:58:23,722
>> Will: Yeah,

1240
00:58:26,122 --> 00:58:29,122
I, I, I was, I was torn because I'm, I'm kind

1241
00:58:29,122 --> 00:58:31,402
of done with the whole Potter thing. I mean.

1242
00:58:31,962 --> 00:58:34,882
Oh, maybe it's, well, maybe I'm just done with J.K. rowling and we

1243
00:58:34,882 --> 00:58:37,841
won. We don't have to, you know, and every, we

1244
00:58:37,841 --> 00:58:40,682
can just leave it there. Folks can, can

1245
00:58:40,682 --> 00:58:43,482
take it how they, they want. You know, I think

1246
00:58:43,482 --> 00:58:46,382
it's fair. But but I just hope the

1247
00:58:46,382 --> 00:58:49,232
Internet's and it, or sorry. I guess for me the other thing

1248
00:58:49,232 --> 00:58:51,992
too is the Internet is just being the

1249
00:58:51,992 --> 00:58:54,792
Internet. You know, people are just being dicks already with the whole

1250
00:58:54,792 --> 00:58:57,432
Hermione thing. So I mean, I guess I'm just

1251
00:58:57,432 --> 00:58:59,952
exhausted. I mean there's so many like,

1252
00:59:01,472 --> 00:59:04,432
you know, there's so many things in the world right now. Can we just like

1253
00:59:05,312 --> 00:59:08,312
just, just enjoy properties for what they

1254
00:59:08,312 --> 00:59:11,112
are? But no, we can't.

1255
00:59:11,112 --> 00:59:13,072
So this is why we can't have nice things.

1256
00:59:13,582 --> 00:59:16,502
>> Sarah : Yep, exactly. That is perfect

1257
00:59:16,502 --> 00:59:19,462
way to end it. But you know what? You know what? Don't

1258
00:59:19,462 --> 00:59:20,782
worry. July will be here.

1259
00:59:21,262 --> 00:59:21,742
>> Will: Yes.

1260
00:59:23,662 --> 00:59:26,592
>> Sarah : I don't know why, we go through these spouts of

1261
00:59:26,592 --> 00:59:29,592
this is why we can't have nice things. And then we get nice things

1262
00:59:29,592 --> 00:59:31,432
and then we go back, we revert.

1263
00:59:36,632 --> 00:59:39,552
All right, well on that note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they

1264
00:59:39,552 --> 00:59:40,152
can find you.

1265
00:59:40,882 --> 00:59:43,882
>> Will: Yes, you can find me at willmpolk on all the

1266
00:59:43,882 --> 00:59:46,802
socials. That's W I L L m P O l

1267
00:59:46,802 --> 00:59:47,962
k and you can find.

1268
00:59:47,962 --> 00:59:50,922
>> Sarah : Me there too at SJ Belmont sjblm M O N

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T. Please follow our crew on Twitter at Scene N Nerd,

1270
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on bluesky@cena nerd and friend us on Facebook.

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Follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene, Underscore n

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underscore nerd and Visit our website

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www.scenanerdpodcast.com.

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but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple

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Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcast. Good night.

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Geek out. You're welcome.