Severance Season 2 Eps 9 & 10: Cold Harbor, Mark’s Choice & That Ending

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>> Will: Foreign.

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>> Sarah : Greetings Nerds. This is Scene N nerd. I'm your

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host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is

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our Mr. Producer, will Will Polk Carry doing

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tonight. Will.

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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. Happy Thanksgiving. Early.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, and it's on it. And we're. We're talking on

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Tuesday.

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>> Will: Yeah. Or. Yes, we are. Yes, we are. I, I was

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watching my. My Panthers last night, lose to the

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49ers. But you know, as I was telling you before

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the. Before the, we started recording here, if it.

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If you know, at least the first half was

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competitive because if it had gotten out of hand

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earlier, I would have been like, all right, I

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could do it tonight. But, it. They. They it has

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need to become a consistent ball club. But this is

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not a football podcast. But, but that's why we're

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doing Tuesday night instead of Monday night.

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>> Sarah : do you want to go ahead and give the exciting

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announcement?

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>> Will: Yeah, let's do that.

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>> Sarah : Do you want to give the.

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>> Will: Okay. yeah. So, yeah. So we are as, As I noted, it

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is Thanksgiving and of course the, you know, Black

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Friday is coming up and Christmas and all that.

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And we are excited to announce the holiday food,

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drive that we're going to be, doing here on the

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podcast for the food banks in our home in our

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respective hometowns of Fairbanks, Alaska and

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Durham, North Carolina. and so, we will, be

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supporting the Fairbanks Food bank and the food

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bank at Central and eastern North Carolina, the

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Durham branch. And figure that with all the crazy

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hustle and bustle and just so many things that

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have happened this year and we know the

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affordability crises and all that kind of stuff

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and we just thought it would be a good idea to

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have a. Help. Help out our. Have the nerd

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community help help our fellow nerds and folks in

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the community. And we are doing the scene and

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serve a holiday food drive. And so if you see here

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on the screen, if you're looking at watching us on

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YouTube, you can scan the QR code, but if you're

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listening to us on our audio feeds, we'll have a,

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A link in the show notes where you can. Where you

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can donate and you know, no, you know, where.

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Whether it's $5 or. Or more, you know, we just. It

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all matters. So you know, please, if you feel so

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inclined, please donate to help out. Help out our

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communities and and also even if you want to do

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something in your home, in your home community, we

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are all about service and thank you so much for.

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In advance for your donation.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. Whether it's $5 or $50, that is.

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Donations are just welcome and all the same. all

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right, so that brings us to severance Season two,

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episode nine, the After Hours. Mark and Devon team

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with an ally heli investigates further. Wow. Yeah,

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that was quite the.

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>> Will: That was quite the.

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>> Sarah : They don't even feel like complete sentences.

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>> Will: No, I think AI must have written that one. I don't

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know.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, I mean they forgot to mention how. How

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Dylan quits in this episode. any Dylan to be

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specific. He. He quits after Gretchen Basic

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basically breaks up with him because she, she

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tells the real or Audi Dylan the their. About

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their makeout session and, and she And. And so he,

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he submits his resignation because she just says I

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conf. I can't. I can't do that to my husband

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anymore, so I'm out of here. And so which, which

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is basically like in a way if you think about it,

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he, by. By resigning, Dylan basically said, well,

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if I can't have Gretchen, then I'm gonna commit

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suicide.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was Whenever he like, you

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know. Well, several things that happened with that

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scene. I mean there was, you know, I thought

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whatever. I was watching it. I was thinking back

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to something that the creator of the show had

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mentioned about this season. The Ennis in season

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one versus the Ennis in season two. And you know

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where I think he. I think he basically like call

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the enemies of season one like babies in a sense

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as far as their emotional maturity. And then now

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we're. We're were in the teenagers and, and, and

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it was like. I was thinking about that because it

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was very like. Or you know, it's a very young,

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young love kind of thing. You know, Dylan like got

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down on his knee. He like fashioned this like, you

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know, ring out of you know, some. I guess it

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looked like paper or something. But he was given

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to Gretchen and, and, and, and all that. And it

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was in that blood curdling scream whenever he, you

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know, whenever she like, you know, basically it's

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like we can't do this anymore. But you know, but

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it. What I also really liked about that this

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penultimate episode and it's. You know, there were

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a lot of things that was just really setting up

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for obviously for the finale. But it also pulled a

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lot of things forward as far as really putting a

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bow on many elements of the story and also really

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getting back to the philosophical, things

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especially after, you know, episode eight was

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really, you know, detour and to learning more

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about Cabela and her background and, and you know,

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and it was just we, I think we may have even

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talked about it. It's just like with the cheat.

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You know, how, how is this gonna like unfold when

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the cheating. You're basically like cheating.

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You're, it's like cheating on yourself, but you're

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really not cheated. Oh you know, cheating with,

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with your own spouse. Because you know, the Ennis

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are a separate person.

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>> Sarah : Right. Right.

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>> Will: And so

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>> Sarah : I, I think they summed it up in the line where,

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where Outtie Dillon says, you used my own body to

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cheat on me. Maybe I just quit and end his

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existence. Which is ironic because that is like

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his threat is the very thing that any Dylan

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ultimately does. Like he makes that choice. so, so

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it, I think that having that statement and then

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the action of any Dylan connected like that is a

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reminder that they, they are majority the same.

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It's just they are, they are living in different

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circumstances.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Like their environment, their world. I, I think

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the world is, is more appropriate. Is different.

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And so, and so their life experience is different

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and that's what creates the cracks. But at the

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same time like any Dylan did come from a corner of

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Outtie Dylan's brains. So, so even the attraction

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that Gretchen like. And, and it's funny because

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Dylan at the end of the day, Outtie Dillon

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couldn't even fault any Dylan for. It's like. I

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get it. I totally get it. But I also. You. So

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Yeah, I, I There, there was that the, the also.

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And I'm, I'm gonna just go, go back here.

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Milcheck. I love talking about Milchick because I

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just, I feel like he's the Most, him and Ms. Huang

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are the most, some of the most interesting

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characters. And like they are middle management in

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the sense. And so we're seeing that. But I, I

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still think there's something else there. but

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Milre informs In this episode Ms. Hong that her

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fellowship is over. And he says, and I had to

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write this noun, empathy awaits. Fellow Hong lay

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the game on the table because I just, I couldn't

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figure out why he chose the words empathy awaits.

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Like what does that mean? Yeah, I mean we, we

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don't, we don't really know what a fellow like

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where she's going. I haven't seen it yet or heard

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about it. But the fact that he says empathy

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awaits.

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>> Will: Yeah. I, I was when I said that I was and I still

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haven't like, is one of these things in. In this

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show, you know, given that there's so many mystery

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boxes that. That. That. That we have, and. And

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this is one of them because, you know, we. We

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notice she was part of the fellowship that

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Harmony, was also. Was a part of, and she's, you

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know, she gets the. You know, she gets the. You

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know, the. The Egan bust. And, And so. So it was.

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I don't. Yeah, I. I don't. It's like, maybe as far

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as empathy, because, I mean, I guess with Dylan's

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resignation and stuff going back to that, and how

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she felt like she didn't serve him well. I mean,

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maybe that was where that was coming from, but I.

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I just don't know.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. He also, during this exchange,

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talks about how the handbook requires that you

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mark. Mark this betterment with a material sac, a

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proper totem. And so throughout the episodes, very

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subtly, we've seen her with this game, this ring

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game, and that is her totem, and then she has to

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smash it. And, if at first I will. Kelly, believe

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it or not, when he talked about a proper totem, I

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was like, oh, are we doing Inception? Because of

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all of their inception, the totems, to make sure

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they know if they're in a dream or not. I. I just

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thought that was interesting. I'm sure there was

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some inspiration there. But so. So we have this

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scene, and at the same time, we get arguably a

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scene that I never thought while watching this

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season that I needed, but thank God we got it this

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season. Drummond and Milchick, basically.

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>> Will: Yeah, go ahead. Before you jump that, there's one

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thing I did want to just, hit, on with Swan and.

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And Milchick in that, where the. The child labor

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aspect of things really got tied back in from the

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prior episode with Hampton. So that's what. What I

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meant by, like, things kind of get pulled forward

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because, you know, I know last week when we were

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talking about episode eight, I was kind of like,

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yeah, you know, it feels like this could easily

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have been, like, you know, sprinkled out

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throughout, but there were things that happened

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there that, like, with, you know, seeing how Lumon

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again, I mean, this is reinforcing just how

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despicable this company is, but, you know,

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especially. But, you know, whenever. Not only the

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child labor, but then also, like, whenever she

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was, like, you know, picked up by the Lumon bus,

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and, you know, there's a parents there. I mean,

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it's all about. It's all about the Lumon. Of it

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all. You know, there's. And. And you're part of

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the. Part of the machine and. And rather you're.

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>> Sarah : Sorry, did I miss something? What? Bus.

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>> Will: Whenever they picked. Whenever. Whenever. Ms.

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Wonga. Whenever she got picked up at the end.

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Eustace. Whenever she. Okay.

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>> Sarah : I felt during that part.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Okay, so we saw her in the Audi world get picked

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up on the bus. Okay. I was writing something down

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or something. I was not paying attention during

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that. Okay, so. Because. We. We'll circle back to

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that when we talk about episode 10.

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>> Will: Sounds good.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. So Drummond and Melch scene where m. We're

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basically another scene about vocabulary and

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apologize for the word. And then, Because. And

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then he says devour vacculence, which means eat

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shit, to put it monosyllabically. But. But besides

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that, it was also just him pointing out like I am

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the manager of the severed floor, which means two

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things. I own. I am owned. Respect, even from my

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superiors. Second and more obvious is that the

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floor comprises that my whole jurisdiction. Like,

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it's not my fault Mark called in sick. Like I. I

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can't. I can't control him when he's not on our

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premises. Like, what don't you get about that? And

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because really this episode, to put it in an IM

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Deep summary format, is all about how Lumon is on

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the verge of having Cold harbor completed at this

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momentous day, only for. For Mark to basically be

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like, yeah, I'm not coming in today. I just need a

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day. I just. I need a day. And. And so we're

243
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seeing. We're seeing, the other characters in

244
00:14:06,190 --> 00:14:09,480
Lumon, the Ennis who did show up to work, all

245
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also, kind of go about their way with. Without

246
00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:18,090
Mark around, at least on the severed floor. So,

247
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did he have any thoughts about the Drummond

248
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,080
Milcheck scene before I move on?

249
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>> Will: I mean, just really, I think with the. With the.

250
00:14:29,150 --> 00:14:31,550
You know, apologize for the word. And I could.

251
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When I was watching that, I did think about, an

252
00:14:36,130 --> 00:14:39,580
earlier episode where Milchick was looking at the

253
00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:44,460
mirror, you know, and the. And the And have, you

254
00:14:44,460 --> 00:14:48,300
know, repeating words and the mirror and. And. And

255
00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:52,460
just like wondering when the cracks of. Of things

256
00:14:52,620 --> 00:14:56,460
were. You know, it was, you know, he's Company man

257
00:14:56,460 --> 00:14:58,060
through and through. But then at this time there

258
00:14:58,060 --> 00:14:59,580
was these moments where I was like, is he going to

259
00:14:59,580 --> 00:15:03,580
like break and like go to, you know, become a

260
00:15:03,580 --> 00:15:06,300
rebel and you know, and all. But no, he's company

261
00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:09,220
man through and through. Even. But even though to

262
00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:12,500
your Point about like, you know, he was right to

263
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:14,580
say, like, drumming everything on the outside

264
00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:18,940
world is your, your responsibility. and I, and I

265
00:15:18,940 --> 00:15:21,020
do like the glimpse of humanity, you know, the

266
00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:27,590
actual humanity conversation between Milchek and

267
00:15:27,590 --> 00:15:29,470
Mark when you brought about him, you know, being

268
00:15:29,470 --> 00:15:32,910
out, calling out sick for work and stuff. and,

269
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and, and, and, and also another moment where

270
00:15:36,350 --> 00:15:38,910
Milchick, you know, he, he had kind of like a tear

271
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in his eye when he was looking up at the the

272
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painting in his office there. Well, you know,

273
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after, after that situation, after what went down

274
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with him and him and and Drummond. So that was,

275
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you know, those moments like that are just like

276
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why the show is just, just really, just works so,

277
00:15:57,390 --> 00:16:00,580
so well for me. just, you know, because it's just

278
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so many levels of of emotion, that these, that

279
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,430
these characters are conveying, when these things

280
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are happening.

281
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>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to be honest. I will admit

282
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,820
during these two episodes, I check out during the

283
00:16:18,820 --> 00:16:24,260
Irving Bert stuff, I don't, I don't know what it

284
00:16:24,260 --> 00:16:30,700
is. I, I just, I, I, I definitely am watching, but

285
00:16:31,020 --> 00:16:34,330
nothing is really resonating. So, do you, do you

286
00:16:34,330 --> 00:16:37,700
have any, thoughts about their scenes?

287
00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:42,900
>> Will: Yeah, I mean, I think it really again, like, I, I

288
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:44,980
sound, I know a broken record here, but it just

289
00:16:44,980 --> 00:16:48,220
really, this episode pulls, pulls all the various

290
00:16:48,540 --> 00:16:52,340
threads from earlier episodes. At least with most

291
00:16:52,340 --> 00:16:56,300
of the characters. I have some thoughts about

292
00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:58,740
Mark, but at least with Irving, you know, I think

293
00:16:58,740 --> 00:17:01,860
about whatever they had that moment. I thought

294
00:17:01,860 --> 00:17:06,660
about the dinner with, with Fields and, and the

295
00:17:06,660 --> 00:17:10,310
discussion that they had about, about the, how

296
00:17:10,310 --> 00:17:13,450
they have. The church basically sees, you know,

297
00:17:13,450 --> 00:17:17,690
Ennis as, you know, having a soul and, and, and,

298
00:17:17,690 --> 00:17:20,610
and, and Bert, ah, you know, discussing all the

299
00:17:20,610 --> 00:17:22,690
bad things he's done in the past, which we finally

300
00:17:22,690 --> 00:17:24,530
understand what those bad things are. I mean, he

301
00:17:24,530 --> 00:17:29,460
basically was like a hitman for, for Lumon. and,

302
00:17:29,460 --> 00:17:32,860
and, and so, you know, so whenever he did, you

303
00:17:32,860 --> 00:17:36,860
know, buy this ticket to, and told Burt to like

304
00:17:36,860 --> 00:17:41,440
this you and Radar just go and you know, don't

305
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,640
tell me where you're going. you know, it just

306
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,280
really, it really, it add a weight and more you

307
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,080
know, and really contextualized that earlier

308
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,480
conversation around the dinner table. Fields and

309
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,450
and also like, you know, even down to like the

310
00:17:55,450 --> 00:17:58,250
discrepancy, the misremembering as far as like

311
00:17:58,250 --> 00:18:00,850
when the severance, severance procedure started

312
00:18:00,850 --> 00:18:03,250
because, you know, Fields, you know, Bert said one

313
00:18:03,250 --> 00:18:05,730
time like 20 years ago, and then Phil's corrected

314
00:18:05,730 --> 00:18:08,190
and was like 12 or something like that. So you

315
00:18:08,190 --> 00:18:11,670
know, so, you know, clearly it just, you know,

316
00:18:11,670 --> 00:18:15,270
Bert is. When he did this for, For. For. For

317
00:18:15,670 --> 00:18:17,790
Irving, it was just sort of like again, he's just

318
00:18:17,790 --> 00:18:20,310
trying to like earn his. Earn his wing, so to

319
00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:22,670
speak, as far as make an atonement for the things

320
00:18:22,670 --> 00:18:23,510
he's done in the past.

321
00:18:24,870 --> 00:18:28,680
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. I forgot to mention while we were

322
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,440
talking about Gretchen and Dylan that heli r is

323
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,840
surprisingly wrapped up in the whole Dylan thing.

324
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:36,800
>> Will: Yeah.

325
00:18:39,020 --> 00:18:41,900
>> Sarah : Really smart of the writers considering her whole

326
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:49,840
position with with Mark and Ms. Casey and the. And

327
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,719
so it was. It was interesting how after Dylan gets

328
00:18:54,719 --> 00:18:59,770
rejected, he she. She says to him, like, keep the

329
00:18:59,770 --> 00:19:02,130
ring and give it to someone you meet down here.

330
00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:05,210
And then like also at the same time like she's

331
00:19:05,210 --> 00:19:10,340
not. She's not your wife. So, so I, I feel like a

332
00:19:10,340 --> 00:19:14,870
lot of that. A lot of the encouragement and

333
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:19,470
discouragement she was sharing with him was an.

334
00:19:19,550 --> 00:19:23,910
Her own inner monologue as she's trying to deduce

335
00:19:23,910 --> 00:19:27,700
her own situation with Mark and this this love

336
00:19:28,670 --> 00:19:33,400
quartet that they got going on. and, and. And also

337
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,240
I think Heliar just needed somebody to bounce off

338
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,310
of because Mark was MIA because Mark is hanging

339
00:19:41,310 --> 00:19:44,910
out with Devin and trying to meet up with Cobell

340
00:19:44,910 --> 00:19:48,180
because they want to go to the lodge. to. To have

341
00:19:48,180 --> 00:19:51,940
a one on one with the innie. so. So. So you. You

342
00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:54,360
kind of teased it. but what were your thoughts

343
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:55,800
about Mark in this episode?

344
00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,920
>> Will: Yeah, so I'm still. So this whole re Integration

345
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,940
thing is. Is. Is something. because you know, we,

346
00:20:05,940 --> 00:20:09,740
we. We get you. We. We. We. I feel like in a lot

347
00:20:09,740 --> 00:20:16,340
of ways Marcus has sort of. This is his hit up up

348
00:20:16,340 --> 00:20:20,170
until the finale. His. His sort of arc has been

349
00:20:20,170 --> 00:20:23,010
kind of like, kind of boring to me in. In some

350
00:20:23,010 --> 00:20:25,650
regards because you know, he got. We went through

351
00:20:25,650 --> 00:20:28,160
the reintegration. Not boring in a sense that it

352
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,840
was just. It just sort of like it's there. But I

353
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,320
don't feel like it has progressed much other than

354
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,880
just, you know, other things around him has. Have

355
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,910
progressed. and yes, he did get the proceed. You

356
00:20:38,910 --> 00:20:40,990
know, he did get the reintegration procedure done.

357
00:20:43,570 --> 00:20:45,200
M. But it's not finished. That's what I was gonna

358
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,330
say. Yeah. so, you know, it just sort of like. So

359
00:20:49,330 --> 00:20:51,410
whenever he and Cabell are like, you know, so

360
00:20:51,410 --> 00:20:53,170
they're, you know, he and Devin are like waiting

361
00:20:53,170 --> 00:20:55,770
in the woods and I just felt like it was a

362
00:20:55,770 --> 00:20:57,650
metaphor for like most of the season where I just

363
00:20:57,650 --> 00:21:01,530
feel like he's just been waiting for, like, things

364
00:21:01,530 --> 00:21:04,490
to happen so we can finally get to help, you know,

365
00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:07,210
finally get to the stage of where we are, which is

366
00:21:07,290 --> 00:21:11,210
getting Gemma out of. Out of, where she is. but,

367
00:21:12,010 --> 00:21:15,410
you know, but I, like, I referenced a phone call

368
00:21:15,410 --> 00:21:17,250
earlier. I thought that was like, probably the.

369
00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:19,590
The thing that m. really stood out the most in

370
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:22,070
that scene with, for me was whenever he and

371
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:24,950
Milchick talked, because, you know, whenever he

372
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:27,710
and Cobel were, like, having their back and forth

373
00:21:27,710 --> 00:21:29,910
about Cold harbor and all that kind of stuff, it

374
00:21:29,910 --> 00:21:31,910
was like the obvious question is there. It's like,

375
00:21:31,910 --> 00:21:36,040
what's so special about Cold Harbor? But. But

376
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,920
they. But the way they structure the show, it's

377
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,840
like, we're going to keep that mystery box until

378
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,280
the finale. So we're not. We're not going to tell

379
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,680
you what. What's so special about Cold Harbor.

380
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,920
Even though we kind of. We. We. We are pretty. I'm

381
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,800
pretty sure Cabela knows what it's all about,

382
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,800
clearly, because she was, you know, she was a

383
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,640
supervisor for that floor. But.

384
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,120
>> Sarah : Yeah, but she. She doesn't talk in English.

385
00:22:00,670 --> 00:22:04,670
>> Will: Yeah, she does. She obfuscates and just. Yeah, and

386
00:22:04,750 --> 00:22:08,630
so that was probably the very frustrating thing

387
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:12,110
for me, with. With respect to Mark, but. And also.

388
00:22:12,910 --> 00:22:16,590
>> Sarah : Yeah, so. So it's interesting because I have a

389
00:22:16,590 --> 00:22:21,080
different take on it. I. I actually find, both

390
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,880
Marks to be very active this season. Now, I do

391
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,020
think what you're getting at is kind of like,

392
00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:33,940
we're waiting for Outtie Mark in particular,

393
00:22:34,340 --> 00:22:37,460
especially Outtie Mark to catch up and be like,

394
00:22:37,540 --> 00:22:41,140
yeah, yeah, this is what's going on. So there's a

395
00:22:41,140 --> 00:22:45,620
lot more exposition with him, but I still find him

396
00:22:45,620 --> 00:22:48,580
active because he. He did make that decision upon

397
00:22:48,580 --> 00:22:52,340
learning that his wife was still alive in there.

398
00:22:52,910 --> 00:22:55,310
Oh, I'm gonna reintegrate. Like, I'm getting her

399
00:22:55,310 --> 00:23:01,740
back. now. Now I do, I think, because the

400
00:23:01,740 --> 00:23:06,340
reintegration is something that we expected to

401
00:23:06,340 --> 00:23:10,260
kind of be like, oh, we're gonna see what. What

402
00:23:10,260 --> 00:23:13,860
that means this season and. No, we're not. We're

403
00:23:13,860 --> 00:23:16,660
gonna see it next season. What reintegration

404
00:23:16,660 --> 00:23:19,660
means. We're gonna like that. That's something

405
00:23:19,660 --> 00:23:22,180
that has started in this season, but it's not

406
00:23:22,180 --> 00:23:25,370
finished yet. And. And I think that's a bit

407
00:23:25,450 --> 00:23:28,490
frustrating because when. When it was first

408
00:23:28,490 --> 00:23:31,410
brought up and, like, the procedure started, we

409
00:23:31,410 --> 00:23:34,320
were. We were, I swear to God, if you go back to

410
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,360
that episode, we were literally thinking, oh, the

411
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,680
next episode, we're gonna see what that did. Not

412
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,400
exactly And I think I, so I, so I think that that

413
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,480
that's a bit annoying and kind of like oh, but,

414
00:23:49,910 --> 00:23:55,580
but at the same time, everything I, I find it hard

415
00:23:55,580 --> 00:23:58,900
to really be frustrated with Mark because also

416
00:24:01,780 --> 00:24:10,400
his, his relationship with his wife. Like I, I can

417
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,920
appreciate how they managed in this season to

418
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,920
create one of the ultimate love triangles, if not

419
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,120
a love square. And, and that's what's so

420
00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:29,560
compelling, and emotional, because, and that leads

421
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,800
us into the finale which I'm gonna go into

422
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:36,370
because, because I think that episode nine was

423
00:24:36,370 --> 00:24:39,490
just set up like episode I, I honestly when I sat

424
00:24:39,490 --> 00:24:42,660
down here with you, I thought to myself, okay, I

425
00:24:42,660 --> 00:24:44,700
know how we're gonna do this. And then I realized,

426
00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:49,980
oh yeah, there was episode nine. I completely.

427
00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:55,740
Because episode 10, Cold harbor is also what I

428
00:24:55,740 --> 00:24:59,900
felt like was the longest episode. It was to the

429
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:03,470
point where I was also gonna like, okay, Great,

430
00:25:03,870 --> 00:25:07,780
let's, let's get going guys. but the IMDb summary

431
00:25:07,780 --> 00:25:10,980
is Mark forms a shaky alliance in an all or

432
00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:14,780
nothing play while the team makes a dangerous last

433
00:25:14,860 --> 00:25:21,340
stand. Okay, so because we're already starting

434
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:24,140
with talk about Mark, let's just talk about Mark

435
00:25:24,140 --> 00:25:29,740
because another scene or sequence, really this

436
00:25:29,740 --> 00:25:33,530
episode can be divided into sequences more so than

437
00:25:33,530 --> 00:25:38,170
storylines and characters. So we get the cabin

438
00:25:39,290 --> 00:25:42,170
and, and I don't know about you, if you had

439
00:25:42,170 --> 00:25:45,250
thoughts about how this whole thing was going to

440
00:25:45,250 --> 00:25:48,730
work, but I, I didn't have any thoughts. And so

441
00:25:48,730 --> 00:25:52,290
when it started and they, Cobell basically tells

442
00:25:52,290 --> 00:25:56,610
them, okay, take this camera, record, record a

443
00:25:56,610 --> 00:26:02,370
message and then step outside. And, and, and, and

444
00:26:02,370 --> 00:26:05,090
so at first I thought to myself, oh, we're gonna,

445
00:26:05,090 --> 00:26:07,370
we're gonna do this once. And then it kept going

446
00:26:08,090 --> 00:26:12,330
and it ultimately through editing and dialogue

447
00:26:12,410 --> 00:26:16,130
became what felt like the most authentic

448
00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:19,170
conversation and any in Outtie could have in this

449
00:26:19,170 --> 00:26:23,990
universe. And so it was really well done. what

450
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:26,430
were your thoughts about the Innie and Audi

451
00:26:26,430 --> 00:26:27,150
conversation?

452
00:26:28,230 --> 00:26:30,030
>> Will: Yeah, well, like you said, from a technical

453
00:26:30,030 --> 00:26:33,220
standpoint, it, it was very satisfying. I mean I

454
00:26:33,220 --> 00:26:36,940
was, I mean I think it was like the first 15

455
00:26:36,940 --> 00:26:39,340
minutes or however long it was of the show, I was

456
00:26:39,340 --> 00:26:43,820
like locked in. Because you're right between you.

457
00:26:43,820 --> 00:26:45,300
Because, yeah, because you know, as we were

458
00:26:45,300 --> 00:26:48,700
discussing about the reintegration, I was, you

459
00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:50,780
know, since they, you know, they weren't really,

460
00:26:50,940 --> 00:26:52,580
you know, the whole point, point of the

461
00:26:52,580 --> 00:26:55,920
reintegration is for the, for both hemispheres,

462
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,830
for lack of a better term, to like, you know, to

463
00:26:58,910 --> 00:27:04,190
you know, be able to communicate. But you know,

464
00:27:04,270 --> 00:27:07,190
but using it was it was so simple but, but so

465
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:09,670
genius of using the video cameras for them to

466
00:27:09,670 --> 00:27:14,630
like, talk to one another. Yeah, and, and, yeah,

467
00:27:14,630 --> 00:27:18,910
and, and really get the perspectives and really,

468
00:27:19,070 --> 00:27:24,200
you know, I think really succinctly like, like

469
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,120
captured every, like the essence of what this,

470
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:31,000
what, what this is all about. And it's about, you

471
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,720
know, it's about control, body autonomy, choice

472
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:40,640
and, and, and the choices that led to Mark doing

473
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,720
this to begin with. And, and then, and I loved how

474
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:48,890
any Mark like called him out on it. and you know,

475
00:27:48,890 --> 00:27:50,810
because, because as the conversation was first

476
00:27:50,810 --> 00:27:52,570
going and I was like, yeah, you know, I'm kind of

477
00:27:52,570 --> 00:27:55,250
sympathetic to outer Mark. But then as they

478
00:27:55,250 --> 00:27:57,290
started going deeper and then, you know, and then

479
00:27:57,290 --> 00:28:00,050
Outtie Mark, you know, messed up Helly's name and

480
00:28:00,450 --> 00:28:04,530
you know, and, and it made us, you know, you know,

481
00:28:04,770 --> 00:28:08,890
the sympathetic part was just like, you know, you

482
00:28:08,890 --> 00:28:11,650
know, whether it was severance or whether it was,

483
00:28:11,970 --> 00:28:13,450
you know, we learned, you know, Mark became an

484
00:28:13,450 --> 00:28:15,130
alcohol, you know, lost his job because of

485
00:28:15,130 --> 00:28:17,090
alcoholism and other things, like, you know,

486
00:28:17,090 --> 00:28:19,490
drinking problems and all that kind of stuff. At

487
00:28:19,490 --> 00:28:21,090
the end of the day it was like Mark has just

488
00:28:21,090 --> 00:28:24,810
basically created this any to escape the, the pain

489
00:28:24,810 --> 00:28:25,410
that he lost.

490
00:28:26,050 --> 00:28:26,450
>> Sarah : Right.

491
00:28:27,010 --> 00:28:30,170
>> Will: Losing Gemma. And it was just so, but then to

492
00:28:30,170 --> 00:28:34,520
hear, the enie Mark be like, oh, well, you know,

493
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,320
you know, yeah, that's all, well, good for you.

494
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,880
But you know, if I do this, this means my world

495
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:43,760
ends.

496
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:49,240
>> Sarah : And I was just like, yeah, yeah. So the messing up

497
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:54,650
of the name, great writing because it is parallel

498
00:28:54,650 --> 00:29:00,990
to when Mark S, meets Helena is she, she messes up

499
00:29:00,990 --> 00:29:05,830
Gemma's name. And, and so, and so that's just a

500
00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:10,830
good cue for as soon as, yeah. All of a sudden it

501
00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:15,730
was just like, oh, well, you may not be together

502
00:29:15,730 --> 00:29:19,050
in the Audi world, but you sure think the same to

503
00:29:19,050 --> 00:29:21,930
try to get what you want. And, and again, it's,

504
00:29:21,930 --> 00:29:27,130
it's, it's very well done because his reaction is

505
00:29:27,130 --> 00:29:31,890
very similar to when, when Gemma's names gets,

506
00:29:31,860 --> 00:29:34,310
gets messed up. it's like, no, no, don't touch

507
00:29:34,310 --> 00:29:38,630
that. It's just, it's great irony. And, and I

508
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:44,470
also, I also think that the whole reintegration

509
00:29:44,550 --> 00:29:49,310
thing, I, I, I felt like the conversation when it

510
00:29:49,310 --> 00:29:53,070
went there, I was like, thank you. Can we, can we

511
00:29:53,070 --> 00:29:55,350
explain this? Because I still don't quite

512
00:29:55,350 --> 00:29:59,390
understand how I like how he led with like, oh,

513
00:29:59,390 --> 00:30:02,730
this will benefit you too. We will become, we will

514
00:30:02,730 --> 00:30:06,160
become one. And it's like, how does that work?

515
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:07,040
>> Will: How's that work?

516
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,480
>> Sarah : Just at the end of the day, the, the logic started

517
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,640
coming through and it was just like you, you think

518
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:20,520
that this is going. Let's call spade a spade. He

519
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,600
started the process because he thought that that

520
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,510
was the only way to get into the severed floor.

521
00:30:29,020 --> 00:30:33,740
Right, Right. So now, now with this whole

522
00:30:33,740 --> 00:30:38,020
dialogue, he basically has to recruit. He has to

523
00:30:38,020 --> 00:30:42,220
pivot and recruit the other mark to help him save.

524
00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:45,940
Save Gemma on the severed floor. That's the only

525
00:30:45,940 --> 00:30:49,220
way it works because reintegration has not been

526
00:30:49,220 --> 00:30:52,620
completed. And I'm gonna re. Keep saying that

527
00:30:52,620 --> 00:30:55,930
because it's a very brief moment in these two

528
00:30:55,930 --> 00:31:00,170
episodes and I think, I think it should have been

529
00:31:00,170 --> 00:31:03,010
explained a bit more because I'm still, I'm still

530
00:31:03,010 --> 00:31:06,300
quite confused because then my, my, When that was

531
00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:08,420
brought up and explained and he started talking

532
00:31:08,420 --> 00:31:10,540
about, hypothetically, this is the way it will

533
00:31:10,540 --> 00:31:14,140
work, I was thinking to myself, yeah, yeah,

534
00:31:14,140 --> 00:31:16,580
you're, you're, you're saying what me and Will

535
00:31:16,580 --> 00:31:18,780
have already talked about. It's going to become.

536
00:31:19,020 --> 00:31:22,730
You're going to multiply even further. so. And I

537
00:31:22,730 --> 00:31:26,250
will tell you, I finally, and I did this on

538
00:31:26,250 --> 00:31:28,890
purpose. Finally watched the opening sequence.

539
00:31:29,210 --> 00:31:29,730
>> Will: Oh, good.

540
00:31:29,730 --> 00:31:30,890
>> Sarah : For the last episode.

541
00:31:31,530 --> 00:31:31,850
>> Will: Good.

542
00:31:31,850 --> 00:31:33,890
>> Sarah : The whole multiplying thing.

543
00:31:33,890 --> 00:31:34,970
>> Will: Yeah. Yep.

544
00:31:35,210 --> 00:31:38,210
>> Sarah : Yeah. So I was just like, yeah, it's not going to

545
00:31:38,210 --> 00:31:42,290
be any Mark and Outtie mark as one. It's going to

546
00:31:42,290 --> 00:31:48,370
be the, the reconfigured mark. It's going to be a

547
00:31:48,370 --> 00:31:52,250
third one and keep multiplied. And also the fact

548
00:31:52,250 --> 00:31:55,970
that this, this whole exchange occurs at a

549
00:31:55,970 --> 00:31:57,610
birthing cabin.

550
00:31:57,930 --> 00:31:58,410
>> Will: Yes.

551
00:31:58,810 --> 00:32:02,490
>> Sarah : And there are these creepy statues with a man and

552
00:32:02,490 --> 00:32:06,570
a female who are pregnant. So there, there,

553
00:32:06,570 --> 00:32:13,450
there's a lot about, about reproduction. So.

554
00:32:13,450 --> 00:32:15,810
>> Will: Yeah, it really. Yeah. I mean that, that was the

555
00:32:15,810 --> 00:32:18,330
other thing that I noticed as well. It's just.

556
00:32:18,910 --> 00:32:22,510
Yeah. Even going back to the. Yeah. Going to the

557
00:32:22,510 --> 00:32:24,110
fact that they are going to the birthing cabin

558
00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:27,190
and, and something about that birthing cabin, you

559
00:32:27,190 --> 00:32:29,510
know, does allow for the severance chip to kick

560
00:32:29,510 --> 00:32:33,160
in. and, and so, so again, it's just like gets

561
00:32:33,239 --> 00:32:35,520
back to that, to that point, like, yes, we are, we

562
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:41,560
are, we are creating. Creating beings to do. To

563
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,100
basically to propagate the, the workforce for, for

564
00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:47,260
Lumon. You know, as far as from the.

565
00:32:47,260 --> 00:32:50,580
>> Sarah : Corporate side, I don't, I don't think that's

566
00:32:50,580 --> 00:32:51,060
right. But.

567
00:32:51,060 --> 00:32:53,020
>> Will: Well, I mean, not literally, not literally just

568
00:32:53,020 --> 00:32:55,020
figuratively. I mean, that's, I mean, I mean, I

569
00:32:55,020 --> 00:32:58,300
think I was gonna say it's not, I don't mean that

570
00:32:58,300 --> 00:33:00,260
like in a literal sense, but more just figurative.

571
00:33:00,260 --> 00:33:03,140
As far as Storytelling sense as it makes sense to

572
00:33:03,140 --> 00:33:05,020
your. I'll just. It makes sense to your point.

573
00:33:05,020 --> 00:33:07,340
Like the setting being that birthing center.

574
00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:15,749
>> Sarah : Right, right. Why I chimed in there was because I

575
00:33:15,829 --> 00:33:21,149
think that what we learned in this episode about

576
00:33:21,149 --> 00:33:25,549
what Cold harbor is and the. And the Ms. Casey of

577
00:33:25,549 --> 00:33:32,749
it all. So. So the files that. That he's been

578
00:33:32,749 --> 00:33:38,240
working are. Are her emotions and. And memories

579
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,760
and pathways into the brain and all of that. So.

580
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,880
And. And we. We find out that once he completes

581
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,080
Cold harbor, the files gets completed. There's a

582
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:56,670
test, an efficiency test that occurs and. And it's

583
00:33:56,670 --> 00:34:00,870
basically product control because she gets sent

584
00:34:00,870 --> 00:34:05,970
into a room that is barren with no crib. Or. With

585
00:34:05,970 --> 00:34:10,130
a crib. Sorry. Yeah, with a crib in it. And then

586
00:34:10,130 --> 00:34:14,530
she's told to deconstruct it. And we. We learned

587
00:34:14,530 --> 00:34:17,330
from the doctor who's watching as well as James.

588
00:34:18,610 --> 00:34:22,130
James Egan, he's also watching this unfold that

589
00:34:22,370 --> 00:34:25,970
like the status is, oh, she feels nothing. Even

590
00:34:25,970 --> 00:34:29,010
though we know historically, like she had a

591
00:34:29,010 --> 00:34:31,820
miscarriage. They wanted a kid, not. None of her

592
00:34:31,820 --> 00:34:33,740
memories were resurfacing.

593
00:34:34,220 --> 00:34:34,780
>> Will: Yeah.

594
00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:38,140
>> Sarah : Can I just call spade a spade? This is the worst

595
00:34:38,140 --> 00:34:42,860
test of efficacy because the moment M. Mark enters

596
00:34:42,860 --> 00:34:46,340
and I know I'm jumping ahead, it's like, no out

597
00:34:46,340 --> 00:34:51,100
the window. Severed bonds are broken. It's like

598
00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:55,020
that's really what you should be testing because I

599
00:34:55,020 --> 00:34:58,980
think. I think they are. They are. there. It's

600
00:34:58,980 --> 00:35:01,580
like a. Ah. It's like a modification. It's like,

601
00:35:01,580 --> 00:35:06,260
how far can we push this into everyday life? And

602
00:35:06,220 --> 00:35:09,340
Which goes into a theory about Milchuk. But, I'll

603
00:35:09,340 --> 00:35:10,820
let. I'll let you chime in.

604
00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:15,970
>> Will: Yeah. No, I mean, as far as the, Yeah, we learn

605
00:35:17,010 --> 00:35:20,290
several things as they are doing this efficacy

606
00:35:20,290 --> 00:35:22,890
test and you know, and it goes back to like, you

607
00:35:22,890 --> 00:35:25,090
know, we've. What we've talked about with other

608
00:35:25,090 --> 00:35:29,100
episodes and. And interactions with, folks, you

609
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:32,260
know, in the Audi world with Mark and Helena and

610
00:35:32,690 --> 00:35:35,310
as far as the bond and even like. Even like

611
00:35:35,470 --> 00:35:37,910
Gretchen and Dylan, it's just like, you know,

612
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:43,520
there's elements of. Of people, you know, the. The

613
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,600
base personality, that, you know, that. That does

614
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:53,400
get exposed, you know, with. With which, you know,

615
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,280
whichever, you know, whichever you know, person

616
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,480
they're with at that moment. As far as like, you

617
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,200
know, Gretchen saw, you know, things about the.

618
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,680
Any Dylan that reminded her of her or Dylan

619
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,680
whenever they met years ago. and then with. With,

620
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,080
you know, but using that. The test as far as a

621
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,090
very pivotal moment, for. For Mark and Gemma,

622
00:36:14,140 --> 00:36:18,440
because I think back to episode seven, where, you

623
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,560
know, when they do get the crib, and then Gemma,

624
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,600
like, you know, teases Mark about the. The whole

625
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,760
building of the crib and, you know, how handy or

626
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,050
handsy he can be. but, you know, but that's a very

627
00:36:33,050 --> 00:36:35,900
strong emotion that whenever, you know, when Mark

628
00:36:35,900 --> 00:36:39,550
does, like, go into the Cold Harbor Room, and. And

629
00:36:39,550 --> 00:36:44,510
she, you know, those bounds, you know, at least at

630
00:36:44,510 --> 00:36:46,630
that point, it's outing Mark. And. But, you know,

631
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:52,000
we have any. We have any. Jenna. it definitely,

632
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,000
like, you know, we definitely see that. That.

633
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,160
That. That innate level of trust, because even

634
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,240
though she was confused, seeing his guy coming

635
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:01,090
here all bloodied and stuff, there was some. There

636
00:37:01,090 --> 00:37:04,690
was still that level of familiarity that was able

637
00:37:04,690 --> 00:37:07,450
to, like, you know, basically break through the

638
00:37:07,450 --> 00:37:09,450
severed boundaries.

639
00:37:10,090 --> 00:37:13,410
>> Sarah : Right. Well, what's also important to remember

640
00:37:13,410 --> 00:37:17,490
about Gemma, though, is what separates her from

641
00:37:17,490 --> 00:37:20,170
the others is also she's dead in the outer world.

642
00:37:20,970 --> 00:37:23,730
So what did Lumon do? Like, that's another thing

643
00:37:23,730 --> 00:37:27,950
that's a bit frustrating, because wanting to know

644
00:37:27,950 --> 00:37:31,190
more about Romy, at least wanting to understand

645
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:35,230
more about the sequencing. Like, okay, we know she

646
00:37:35,230 --> 00:37:37,830
died, right? M. Yet you still have her

647
00:37:37,830 --> 00:37:41,670
consciousness or a consciousness. Like, so there.

648
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:45,190
There was something happening before then, some.

649
00:37:45,190 --> 00:37:47,310
Some kind of connection. I don't know if it was

650
00:37:47,310 --> 00:37:49,670
the severed procedure or a different procedure.

651
00:37:49,990 --> 00:37:50,450
>> Will: Yeah.

652
00:37:50,450 --> 00:37:54,610
>> Sarah : and so somebody. Somebody mentioned. And I thought

653
00:37:54,610 --> 00:37:56,730
that this was really clever, so I'm going to put

654
00:37:56,730 --> 00:37:57,330
it out there.

655
00:37:57,810 --> 00:37:58,290
>> Will: Yeah.

656
00:37:58,770 --> 00:38:01,250
>> Sarah : Because I've been. I've been speculating all

657
00:38:01,250 --> 00:38:05,689
season two about Milchick, and again, I've said

658
00:38:05,689 --> 00:38:09,080
he's different. And somebody said, potentially

659
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:14,850
Milchick could be, someone who has had, like,

660
00:38:14,850 --> 00:38:20,730
their Cold harbor file completed. M. Right.

661
00:38:21,450 --> 00:38:21,930
>> Will: Yeah.

662
00:38:21,930 --> 00:38:27,010
>> Sarah : So. And that's why he's a company man. So. Because

663
00:38:27,010 --> 00:38:29,770
we don't. We don't know anything else. I mean, you

664
00:38:29,770 --> 00:38:32,810
talked about a letter a few episodes ago, like, an

665
00:38:32,970 --> 00:38:37,450
offshoot of this, that sort of tied into his name

666
00:38:37,450 --> 00:38:42,200
and. And heritage. But. But I could. I could see

667
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,920
that, like, him and Natalie, I could see that as,

668
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,640
like, maybe they are. Because there's such a

669
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:55,640
roboticness about them that. And. And when Gemma

670
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,440
is Ms. Casey, she does come off as a bit robotic,

671
00:38:59,440 --> 00:38:59,760
too.

672
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:00,680
>> Will: She does? Yeah.

673
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,200
>> Sarah : Like. Like that they. They died in the outer

674
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,110
world. And Lumon has created this technology to

675
00:39:09,110 --> 00:39:13,070
be. But they're prototypes. And so, like, they

676
00:39:13,070 --> 00:39:17,070
were one step. Because we also learned that. We

677
00:39:17,070 --> 00:39:21,390
learned that this isn't the first time a file has

678
00:39:21,390 --> 00:39:26,950
been completed. So, we. There, there's a lot.

679
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,400
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad you brought that up

680
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,450
because that was, that was also just something

681
00:39:33,450 --> 00:39:35,930
I've been chewing on as well. It's like, you know

682
00:39:35,930 --> 00:39:38,250
what? And we didn't get it full. We never, we

683
00:39:38,250 --> 00:39:40,810
never, we haven't gotten an answer yet. And that's

684
00:39:40,810 --> 00:39:42,930
the thing about this show. You know, they'll

685
00:39:42,930 --> 00:39:44,970
answer one thing, but it'll lead to like, you

686
00:39:44,970 --> 00:39:47,380
know, ten, five others. you know, what was so

687
00:39:47,380 --> 00:39:50,780
significant about, you know. You know, because I,

688
00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:55,380
that, that drew, that drew Lumon to, to Gemma and

689
00:39:55,380 --> 00:39:59,400
Mark in particular. because, I mean, you know, it

690
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,000
goes back to that, you know, with the you know,

691
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,580
fertility. Was it a fertility test? you know,

692
00:40:05,580 --> 00:40:07,500
whenever they were at clinic. The fertility

693
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:10,260
clinic. Excuse me. Or was it when they had the

694
00:40:12,020 --> 00:40:14,980
blood drive? You know, when they first met? I

695
00:40:14,980 --> 00:40:20,380
mean, it just seems, you know, what, why were

696
00:40:20,380 --> 00:40:23,930
these the two test subjects that, that, that were

697
00:40:24,650 --> 00:40:27,410
well suited for them to do, to do this, you know,

698
00:40:27,410 --> 00:40:31,840
to come up with these 25 distinct, personalities.

699
00:40:32,690 --> 00:40:37,010
>> Sarah : for one of them or one of them. Because the other

700
00:40:37,010 --> 00:40:40,530
thing that I was thinking about, especially when,

701
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,800
Mark sits down to actually complete Cold harbor

702
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,470
and Hel's there because she's mandatory to watch

703
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:50,830
it unfold and they have their whole exchange and

704
00:40:50,830 --> 00:40:52,550
she brings up the equator, right?

705
00:40:52,710 --> 00:40:53,120
>> Will: Yeah.

706
00:40:55,020 --> 00:40:59,140
>> Sarah : What, what files are she, is she working on? She's

707
00:40:59,140 --> 00:41:00,620
not working on Cold harbor.

708
00:41:02,380 --> 00:41:05,300
>> Will: So. Yeah, so that was, that's the thing about the

709
00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:09,540
mdr. So I think they're all, I think they, it

710
00:41:09,540 --> 00:41:12,760
seems to me that they all have a Mark. They all

711
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:15,640
like were refining these data points and you know,

712
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,450
they make the point that, that when they make the

713
00:41:19,450 --> 00:41:23,010
point about, all these are, you know, her based.

714
00:41:23,170 --> 00:41:24,610
Gemma's tempers, essentially.

715
00:41:24,770 --> 00:41:29,690
>> Sarah : No, yeah, yeah, that Mark's been completed. Mark

716
00:41:29,690 --> 00:41:33,210
says, I completed 24 files. Yeah, but I'm talking

717
00:41:33,210 --> 00:41:34,290
about anybody else.

718
00:41:35,010 --> 00:41:37,650
>> Will: No, but I'm thinking that they all, they all work

719
00:41:37,650 --> 00:41:40,520
together. I mean, they are working on different

720
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,600
components to feed to Mark. And then Mark does the

721
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,760
sequencing and puts it into the box.

722
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:51,360
>> Sarah : See? I see. When we're briefly shown like Mark

723
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,520
trying to train Heli on what to do in season one,

724
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:00,440
it looks the same. So I, I, you could be right.

725
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:03,240
I'm not, I'm not totally disregarding that or

726
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:07,160
anything, but for me I'm entertaining more of the

727
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,570
idea that they're all working on their separate

728
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,440
files. Which just makes me curious about. Because,

729
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,600
because they made it very clear throughout this

730
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,680
season, like the moment Cold harbor is done, like

731
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:29,320
any mark is useless and also dead. Any mark. Not

732
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,680
Audi mark, but. Okay, so then what happened? Like

733
00:42:36,770 --> 00:42:39,410
the others are still needed for some reason

734
00:42:39,490 --> 00:42:42,250
because again, this is a corporation. There's

735
00:42:42,250 --> 00:42:44,490
going to be more. I think there's more than one

736
00:42:44,490 --> 00:42:49,970
Gemma there. Now Gemma may be special because

737
00:42:50,130 --> 00:42:52,930
maybe this is the first time they've had someone

738
00:42:53,010 --> 00:42:56,610
who's like a consciousness that is dead to the

739
00:42:56,770 --> 00:43:00,450
outer world. Maybe, maybe there's some other,

740
00:43:00,690 --> 00:43:06,420
other uniqueness about her as well. or, or like

741
00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:09,300
she's just the one who's managed to get this far

742
00:43:09,540 --> 00:43:14,180
without other things going wrong. So I, I just,

743
00:43:14,180 --> 00:43:19,900
it's, it's very interesting to me that when heli

744
00:43:19,900 --> 00:43:21,140
brings up the equator.

745
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,000
>> Sarah : I feel, I felt like she was trying to name a file

746
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,320
and then they have this whole joke and that file

747
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,440
doesn't have anything to do with Cold Harbor. How

748
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:32,180
could it it.

749
00:43:32,340 --> 00:43:34,700
>> Will: Right, right. Yeah. I mean that, that's a very, I

750
00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:38,340
mean again, this is a mystery box. And so you're,

751
00:43:38,340 --> 00:43:41,540
it could be completely, you could be completely

752
00:43:41,540 --> 00:43:43,700
spot on with, with your theory there. I mean,

753
00:43:43,780 --> 00:43:47,190
because, yeah, because, yeah, because we know that

754
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:49,390
There are other MDRs because we saw that at the

755
00:43:49,390 --> 00:43:52,390
beginning of this season. and, and so yeah, until

756
00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:54,700
Mark like, you know, again fought for it. Fault

757
00:43:54,700 --> 00:43:56,900
for his team to come back and not these other, not

758
00:43:56,900 --> 00:43:58,420
these other refiners. So.

759
00:43:59,060 --> 00:44:01,700
>> Sarah : Well, there, and there's also just a lot of pain

760
00:44:01,700 --> 00:44:04,340
in the world. So. Are you telling me Mark's the

761
00:44:04,340 --> 00:44:07,180
only one who's had somebody die and him wanting to

762
00:44:07,180 --> 00:44:08,020
forget about it?

763
00:44:08,340 --> 00:44:11,100
>> Will: Exactly. Everybody has. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah. I

764
00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:13,100
mean, yeah. I mean every, yeah, because you know,

765
00:44:13,100 --> 00:44:15,820
every, as we've seen with the other three refiners

766
00:44:15,820 --> 00:44:17,820
in, in the group there, I mean they all have their

767
00:44:17,820 --> 00:44:21,340
different motivations. Exactly. Yeah.

768
00:44:21,740 --> 00:44:27,170
>> Sarah : Yeah. Okay. I had my one laugh out loud moment

769
00:44:27,490 --> 00:44:31,250
this entire season. Do you know what it was?

770
00:44:32,850 --> 00:44:34,610
>> Will: It's either gotta be when.

771
00:44:34,770 --> 00:44:37,210
>> Sarah : No, no, no. Pick one, pick one.

772
00:44:37,210 --> 00:44:41,520
>> Will: Okay. All right. I'm thinking it's When Milchick

773
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,060
gave Dylan the letter from his Outtie.

774
00:44:44,850 --> 00:44:49,010
>> Sarah : Yes. Because of the run to the door was freaking

775
00:44:49,170 --> 00:44:53,970
hilarious. I, I, it was so off guard for me.

776
00:44:53,970 --> 00:44:54,930
>> Will: Yeah, same.

777
00:44:55,410 --> 00:44:58,890
>> Sarah : It just, oh, it was like that's why he got the

778
00:44:58,890 --> 00:45:01,090
Emmy for that rhyme.

779
00:45:02,530 --> 00:45:05,330
>> Will: Not the drum major. No, but it wasn't ready. It

780
00:45:05,330 --> 00:45:06,930
was ready to become the drum major.

781
00:45:07,570 --> 00:45:13,040
>> Sarah : Well, see, the, the like he, he's the gift that

782
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,480
keeps giving because between the run and then the

783
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:21,760
whole like sports announcing thing that happens as

784
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:27,000
they congratulate. I'm just like, wow, wow, you

785
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,920
really got it going on. You're really in your

786
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:34,280
zone. But he, he gives before that it's explained

787
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,790
that because Dylan's on the severed floor. Like

788
00:45:37,870 --> 00:45:41,870
yeah, but we thought he resigned. and nope, nope,

789
00:45:41,870 --> 00:45:45,630
he. He signed the papers but Outtie rejected it.

790
00:45:45,870 --> 00:45:50,670
>> Will: Y. Another. This to go back to the first season.

791
00:45:50,670 --> 00:45:53,630
We saw that with, with Hel and Helena. Yeah, yeah,

792
00:45:53,710 --> 00:45:54,190
yeah.

793
00:45:54,750 --> 00:45:57,670
>> Sarah : And, and even, and even this season, like at the

794
00:45:57,670 --> 00:46:00,990
beginning of the, of the. The first episode of

795
00:46:00,990 --> 00:46:04,770
season, they're given a quote unquote choice to

796
00:46:04,770 --> 00:46:08,210
either stay or go. And it's like it doesn't.

797
00:46:08,610 --> 00:46:13,330
Honestly, their life is both dependent on the

798
00:46:13,730 --> 00:46:18,970
Audis going into the building and also, and they

799
00:46:18,970 --> 00:46:22,590
get a choice to leave the building. and as we've

800
00:46:22,590 --> 00:46:25,430
seen, they could also potentially kill one of

801
00:46:25,510 --> 00:46:30,100
another. But Yeah. So. And, and then, and then we,

802
00:46:30,100 --> 00:46:33,670
we get all of his reasons for rejecting it. and,

803
00:46:33,670 --> 00:46:38,430
and I like, I, I liked it because I, it goes back

804
00:46:38,430 --> 00:46:42,150
to. I think, I think Outtie. Dylan gets a bad rap.

805
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:49,440
he's honestly the same guy. He's just in that

806
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,770
world not fulfilled.

807
00:46:52,330 --> 00:46:52,770
>> Will: Yeah.

808
00:46:52,770 --> 00:46:57,090
>> Sarah : Professionally. And in that longingness and, and

809
00:46:57,090 --> 00:47:00,730
so that's another reason why he's like, no,

810
00:47:01,290 --> 00:47:04,810
because I may not be able to experience that, but

811
00:47:04,890 --> 00:47:08,530
that is what's occurring as in, as the innie. So I

812
00:47:08,530 --> 00:47:13,370
want that for them not realizing that. That the

813
00:47:13,370 --> 00:47:16,050
innie is envious of the very thing he has in the

814
00:47:16,050 --> 00:47:19,330
Audi world. So it's great dramatic irony and I

815
00:47:19,330 --> 00:47:22,430
think, I think it was a good I'm m not gonna say

816
00:47:22,430 --> 00:47:25,630
bow because everything's so open ended still.

817
00:47:25,950 --> 00:47:29,390
We're getting a third season, but it was a good

818
00:47:30,030 --> 00:47:31,790
conclusion for this arc.

819
00:47:32,270 --> 00:47:34,190
>> Will: Yes. Agreed. Agreed.

820
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:46,320
>> Sarah : okay. Do you want to talk about the goats or the,

821
00:47:46,850 --> 00:47:51,730
the, the only Brienne of Tarth scene that's a Game

822
00:47:51,730 --> 00:47:55,490
of Thrones reference. that, that we got because

823
00:47:55,570 --> 00:47:59,170
man, the escalation, the escalation of events and

824
00:47:59,510 --> 00:48:02,030
it's been a long time since I've seen Brienne of

825
00:48:02,030 --> 00:48:05,270
Tarth in battle, but as soon as, as soon as she

826
00:48:05,270 --> 00:48:08,630
went for it I was like, oh, oh, she's going.

827
00:48:08,630 --> 00:48:11,790
Gwendolyn turned on Game of Thrones mode. So bye

828
00:48:11,790 --> 00:48:12,150
bye.

829
00:48:13,590 --> 00:48:16,920
>> Will: Yeah. For real. Or, or Captain Phasma.

830
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:22,600
>> Sarah : I mean. But what. So seriously, what did you think

831
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:27,240
about the reincorporation of the goats and the.

832
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:32,650
And then this, this ah, ceremony that occurs, that

833
00:48:32,650 --> 00:48:37,460
Drummond is having and it's, it's. He says, hold

834
00:48:37,460 --> 00:48:40,910
on, let me get to where this is. This was a long

835
00:48:40,910 --> 00:48:48,380
ass episode. But He says like this goat that she

836
00:48:48,380 --> 00:48:53,100
brings to him, a sacrifice essentially is. Will be

837
00:48:53,260 --> 00:49:00,300
entombed in an. Essentially what we know as Gemma.

838
00:49:00,540 --> 00:49:03,180
I don't know how that works or what this is. And

839
00:49:03,250 --> 00:49:07,170
Whose spirit must guide to Keir's door.

840
00:49:09,170 --> 00:49:15,130
>> Will: They're a cult. I mean all the theories about it

841
00:49:15,130 --> 00:49:17,890
being cloning and everything else. Nah, it's just.

842
00:49:17,890 --> 00:49:22,090
It's just at the end of the day, Lumon is. Is this

843
00:49:22,090 --> 00:49:24,810
the hope. The religion of cure is just. It's a

844
00:49:24,810 --> 00:49:28,500
cult. and we've seen it, you know, throughout the.

845
00:49:29,090 --> 00:49:30,810
You know, we saw it with Harmony, with the shrine

846
00:49:30,810 --> 00:49:34,410
that she built. the Kier In her. In her house. And

847
00:49:34,890 --> 00:49:38,730
And. And. And this other, you know, other

848
00:49:39,610 --> 00:49:44,460
symbolism and his you know, with Whenever they

849
00:49:44,460 --> 00:49:48,070
went out to the. The Field to do the excursion.

850
00:49:48,070 --> 00:49:50,030
And then also I think back to the first season

851
00:49:50,030 --> 00:49:55,520
whenever they had the Oh gosh, when I'm Blanking

852
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,230
on the It was a sort of. They were. All the four

853
00:49:58,230 --> 00:50:02,310
tempers were. Were there. And you know, and. And

854
00:50:02,310 --> 00:50:04,150
so there's just like, you know, all throughout

855
00:50:04,150 --> 00:50:06,709
there's just been like this religious imagery and

856
00:50:06,709 --> 00:50:08,830
also, you know, on the walls. I mean even like, I

857
00:50:08,830 --> 00:50:11,150
think like when Dylan like resigned, it was just

858
00:50:11,150 --> 00:50:12,990
like he was like positioned there where it looked

859
00:50:12,990 --> 00:50:14,070
like, you know, they were about to do the

860
00:50:14,070 --> 00:50:17,400
sacrifice with. With. With him. And. And then even

861
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,150
the You know, the. In this episode with the new

862
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:24,510
painting that was like, you know, Mark completing

863
00:50:24,510 --> 00:50:27,590
the complete Cold Harbor. I mean this is like all

864
00:50:27,590 --> 00:50:31,030
this, you know, with you know, and this is all

865
00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:33,710
this religious imagery and stuff. And so yeah,

866
00:50:33,710 --> 00:50:35,750
that at the end of the day that's what the goats

867
00:50:35,750 --> 00:50:36,350
are there for.

868
00:50:36,750 --> 00:50:41,390
>> Sarah : Well, religious and historical. Like there's.

869
00:50:42,220 --> 00:50:45,860
There's also this. Because the day hasn't even

870
00:50:45,860 --> 00:50:47,980
happened yet and they already have the painting

871
00:50:47,980 --> 00:50:48,620
up. Right?

872
00:50:49,020 --> 00:50:49,820
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

873
00:50:49,820 --> 00:50:52,580
>> Sarah : And. And also I just. I just want to say this

874
00:50:52,580 --> 00:50:58,220
again. A guide to Kier's door which Two. Two

875
00:50:58,220 --> 00:51:02,100
trains of thoughts. One thought was when I was

876
00:51:02,100 --> 00:51:05,260
first watching it and first heard the line, I was

877
00:51:05,260 --> 00:51:09,460
like, is that what's Cold harbor about? Like in

878
00:51:09,460 --> 00:51:12,500
the sense that because she's dead and they've

879
00:51:12,500 --> 00:51:17,220
reconstructed her, she could take them because

880
00:51:17,220 --> 00:51:20,220
Kier is also dead to our knowledge and understand

881
00:51:20,300 --> 00:51:24,620
and has been dead for a while. So they are wanting

882
00:51:24,620 --> 00:51:29,700
to go and meet him in the afterlife or get him

883
00:51:29,700 --> 00:51:34,220
back from the afterlife. How creepy is that? But

884
00:51:34,300 --> 00:51:39,350
there's also this idea that all of those doors

885
00:51:40,550 --> 00:51:43,430
like that we see that Gemma goes into the 24

886
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:46,390
doors. The also the elevator doors.

887
00:51:46,950 --> 00:51:47,510
>> Will: Yeah.

888
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:51,430
>> Sarah : It. It allows the person who on the outer world is

889
00:51:51,430 --> 00:51:54,550
experiencing an in tremendous pain and suffering

890
00:51:54,870 --> 00:51:59,590
to walk through those completely wipe slate clean.

891
00:52:00,630 --> 00:52:03,430
Just another day in the office or another day

892
00:52:03,430 --> 00:52:08,860
wherever Gemma goes. So. And Kira's whole thing is

893
00:52:08,860 --> 00:52:13,540
a pain free world. So with those doors or this

894
00:52:13,540 --> 00:52:17,980
severance, you're allowing people to escape into a

895
00:52:17,980 --> 00:52:22,420
quote unquote pain free world. But by having a

896
00:52:22,420 --> 00:52:25,420
pain free world, you're also numbing all other

897
00:52:25,420 --> 00:52:28,930
emotions. Yeah.

898
00:52:29,010 --> 00:52:32,000
>> Will: So yeah, I think, yeah. And I think to that I

899
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,960
think that is where this really. What I think was

900
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:41,680
what. What they meant for that. That line to mean.

901
00:52:41,810 --> 00:52:44,450
it really is just going into a pain free world.

902
00:52:44,850 --> 00:52:45,290
>> Sarah : Yeah.

903
00:52:45,290 --> 00:52:47,690
>> Will: And it really does. And that's just a whole, you

904
00:52:47,690 --> 00:52:52,160
know, cult of care. To. To end the pain through

905
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,010
this. Through the severance procedure or And you

906
00:52:55,010 --> 00:52:57,130
know, and, and what they were you know, doing at

907
00:52:57,130 --> 00:53:00,600
these 24, 25, you know, different rooms, you know,

908
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,040
having these different, different innies and you

909
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,840
know, especially when they were talking about the

910
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,760
bonds the servants bonds are holding and stuff. So

911
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:08,360
yeah, I mean you have all, you know, Gemma

912
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,760
literally had like 20, you know, 25 different like

913
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:16,360
iterations of any in her. And when Dr. Miles Bauer

914
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:17,880
like you know, says you're going to kill them all,

915
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:19,830
I mean that you know, he wasn't meaning like he

916
00:53:19,830 --> 00:53:21,910
wasn't you know, he was worried about those, those

917
00:53:21,910 --> 00:53:23,790
24. His experiment.

918
00:53:25,230 --> 00:53:30,630
>> Sarah : Well, okay, so this, in, in a way this kind of

919
00:53:30,630 --> 00:53:33,580
brings me to my thoughts about the, the ending

920
00:53:33,580 --> 00:53:39,820
ending because so you got, you got Marcus finally

921
00:53:39,820 --> 00:53:43,060
reunited with Gemma. They're running, they go into

922
00:53:43,060 --> 00:53:48,110
the elevator and I love, I love this. I love how

923
00:53:48,510 --> 00:53:52,430
going down to the floor by going through becoming

924
00:53:52,510 --> 00:53:56,470
severed, he inadvertently shoots Drummond in the

925
00:53:56,470 --> 00:53:56,910
throat.

926
00:53:57,390 --> 00:53:59,510
>> Will: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

927
00:53:59,510 --> 00:54:03,710
>> Sarah : And then on the reverse he like Mark and Gemma are

928
00:54:03,710 --> 00:54:06,870
fully making out. And then, and then all of a

929
00:54:06,870 --> 00:54:11,680
sudden it's like oh, oh Ms. Casey. So good.

930
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:12,520
>> Will: That was a great moment.

931
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,160
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then. And, and I like how.

932
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:24,040
Mark, any Mark throughout this episode, you're

933
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,200
like okay, he's playing, he's. He's playing ball.

934
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,440
But there, there's an, there's a plan B. But he

935
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:32,560
can't tell heli.

936
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:33,240
>> Will: Right.

937
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:37,560
>> Sarah : He can't tell anybody what it is because it's,

938
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:42,360
it's also hinges on him getting, getting Gemma

939
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:46,920
out. And because which, which I feel like shows

940
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,680
humanity of Mark. I Mean, we. At the beginning of

941
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,039
the episode, we kind of see him be a dickish. Be a

942
00:54:53,039 --> 00:54:56,490
dick. and then by the end of, like, both of them

943
00:54:56,490 --> 00:54:59,130
being on board with this, like, they have a soul,

944
00:54:59,130 --> 00:55:04,070
it is the right thing to do. However, he left her

945
00:55:04,070 --> 00:55:09,340
in the stairwell. And, I. Which. Which then I'm

946
00:55:09,340 --> 00:55:12,460
like, okay, Gemma, I get it. You're. You're

947
00:55:12,460 --> 00:55:16,500
worried about your husband, but they're gonna get

948
00:55:16,500 --> 00:55:19,940
you if you're on their property, so you gotta go.

949
00:55:20,820 --> 00:55:23,540
But I also don't know what it means for you to

950
00:55:23,540 --> 00:55:26,260
really leave the premises, considering you're

951
00:55:26,260 --> 00:55:30,510
dead. Like, try explaining that to people. So. So

952
00:55:30,510 --> 00:55:33,430
I. I don't know if Devon's like, in the parking

953
00:55:33,430 --> 00:55:34,270
lot or something.

954
00:55:34,830 --> 00:55:37,630
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would think that they. Since

955
00:55:37,630 --> 00:55:39,630
they went through this, all the steps to like,

956
00:55:39,630 --> 00:55:42,390
concoct this. Right? Devin needs to be waiting

957
00:55:42,390 --> 00:55:44,310
there in the parking lot. Or Cobel. One of the

958
00:55:44,310 --> 00:55:44,590
two.

959
00:55:44,830 --> 00:55:47,300
>> Sarah : There needs to be a getaway. hopefully it's Devin

960
00:55:47,300 --> 00:55:50,700
and not Covell or. Or Devin and Cabel, because

961
00:55:50,700 --> 00:55:53,010
Cobell alone would. That would be very scary.

962
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:57,570
Scary and even more of a whirlwind. But. But, And

963
00:55:57,570 --> 00:56:01,450
also on the flip side, you also have Mark making

964
00:56:01,450 --> 00:56:04,330
the decision. Any Mark making the decision not to

965
00:56:04,330 --> 00:56:07,570
go through the doorway with her and to stay on the

966
00:56:07,570 --> 00:56:11,600
severed floor and, where he sees Heli. And he

967
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,840
essentially chooses her. And then they're running,

968
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,680
which mirrors the opening sequence of the season.

969
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:19,400
So.

970
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,960
>> Will: Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

971
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,840
>> Sarah : So what were. What. What was your thoughts about

972
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,640
this Sophie's choice that they ended the episode

973
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:29,800
and the season with?

974
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:36,360
>> Will: So it depends. You know, honestly, I think I love

975
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:39,640
the ending. I have to say. I really did. I mean, I

976
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:43,000
felt it was a completely earned ending as far as,

977
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,100
like, if this were. I mean, I know it's going. I

978
00:56:45,100 --> 00:56:46,580
know there's going to be a third season, but if

979
00:56:46,580 --> 00:56:49,880
this were like the, series finale, I would be

980
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,920
satisfied because I felt like in some respects, I

981
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,240
feel like I've gotten a whole story with. With.

982
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,960
With these characters and, And. And. And having

983
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:03,280
these. And seeing the. Any Mark make that choice,

984
00:57:05,310 --> 00:57:08,310
from. And I, I know I said earlier, I felt like

985
00:57:08,310 --> 00:57:12,200
things were kind of like. Feel like it's kind of

986
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,840
paraphrasing here spinning, Spinning wheels as far

987
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,480
as Mark's story. But, but you're right. I mean,

988
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:22,360
we. The, you know, your counterpoint to me was.

989
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,920
Was point on. And. And this. This finale, like,

990
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,790
proves it that, at the end of the day, we. We do

991
00:57:27,790 --> 00:57:31,550
see. We do see growth in this. In Both Marks and,

992
00:57:33,870 --> 00:57:37,960
And know. We. It makes sense that for any Mark to

993
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:42,360
pick heli. Yeah, basically. Especially, you know,

994
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,200
and it goes back to the. The beginning of this

995
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:50,200
episode is the genius level of just exploring that

996
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,680
philosophy, that question of who's in control

997
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:59,010
here, Mark, The Outtie or the. Any. and. And you

998
00:57:59,010 --> 00:58:02,130
know, and. And the motivations for. For why the

999
00:58:02,130 --> 00:58:05,010
Audis do what they do as far as like, you know, as

1000
00:58:05,010 --> 00:58:07,230
we about, you know, create, you know, the whole

1001
00:58:07,230 --> 00:58:08,870
severance thing is, you know, people have

1002
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:12,270
different motivations to. To, you know, do this

1003
00:58:12,270 --> 00:58:16,590
procedure and, And. And. And. And you're

1004
00:58:16,590 --> 00:58:20,070
essentially are creating another. Another person

1005
00:58:20,310 --> 00:58:22,780
whenever you, When you go through the severance

1006
00:58:22,780 --> 00:58:26,740
procedure. As we. As we. As we've seen and even.

1007
00:58:26,740 --> 00:58:27,380
Even within.

1008
00:58:27,540 --> 00:58:31,780
>> Sarah : Yeah, they're like the severed floor is like an

1009
00:58:31,780 --> 00:58:35,610
incubation chamber for them. So they. They then.

1010
00:58:35,770 --> 00:58:36,170
>> Will: They.

1011
00:58:36,170 --> 00:58:39,940
>> Sarah : Then the spawn, as you put it, starts to have his

1012
00:58:39,940 --> 00:58:43,660
own life. And then it's like, but why. Why would I

1013
00:58:43,660 --> 00:58:47,500
want to go out there? Exactly, like if then the

1014
00:58:47,500 --> 00:58:50,380
moment that you decide that all is right in the

1015
00:58:50,380 --> 00:58:52,700
world, you no longer go to the stubborn floor,

1016
00:58:52,700 --> 00:58:53,940
like, what happens to me?

1017
00:58:54,340 --> 00:58:57,620
>> Will: Right, right, exactly. Yeah. And even. And the

1018
00:58:57,620 --> 00:58:59,940
thing is, even. Even in this. And the thing about,

1019
00:59:00,450 --> 00:59:05,970
they Eve. But even with the overtime contingency,

1020
00:59:06,020 --> 00:59:08,340
protocol. I mean there. They have even built in a.

1021
00:59:08,820 --> 00:59:11,860
A protocol to continue to allow the Audis to be

1022
00:59:11,860 --> 00:59:15,260
able to exist in the outside world. So it's just

1023
00:59:15,260 --> 00:59:18,180
so many ethical and moral and you know, like we

1024
00:59:18,180 --> 00:59:20,460
were just talking about Bert and his conversation

1025
00:59:20,460 --> 00:59:22,700
with Phil's earlier. You know, at least within

1026
00:59:22,700 --> 00:59:26,020
this universe, the church has like, basically said

1027
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,040
these are. These are souls who can go to heaven or

1028
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,560
hell. So I mean, this is so many. I just. That's

1029
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,520
what I think. When Mark. Any Mark made this

1030
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,160
decision, I was like, oh, yeah, it makes total

1031
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:41,480
sense. And. But I can see. But if your folks who

1032
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,880
like, you know, who are fans of Outtie. Mark,

1033
00:59:45,210 --> 00:59:47,590
you're probably pissed off. Like, you know what.

1034
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:51,830
What gives this any. The right to like and you

1035
00:59:51,830 --> 00:59:56,270
know, to. To do this to. To Mark who. Who. Who.

1036
00:59:56,270 --> 00:59:59,830
Who underwent this whole procedure because, you

1037
00:59:59,830 --> 01:00:02,510
know, he. He thought is what he lost his wife.

1038
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,920
>> Sarah : Well, he did. He did die.

1039
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,560
>> Will: I mean. Well, that's. Well, yeah, at least. At

1040
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,480
least. Yeah. They created a construct where Gemma

1041
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,640
died, quote, unquote. Died. Yeah.

1042
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:19,190
>> Sarah : Well, no, well, that's a fair point. Yeah. Yeah.

1043
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:22,470
There are. Yeah. Still mysterious circumstances,

1044
01:00:22,660 --> 01:00:25,940
considering where. Where we meet her. But. So I

1045
01:00:25,940 --> 01:00:29,430
think that with the Sophie's Choice, it's it's,

1046
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:33,189
it's a great ending because as you put it fully

1047
01:00:33,189 --> 01:00:36,790
understood why Mark, any Mark would do what he did

1048
01:00:36,790 --> 01:00:41,470
at the end that decision. I am not necessarily on

1049
01:00:41,470 --> 01:00:46,480
Audi Marks side however, again, what they did

1050
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,240
brilliant this season is they made me really fall

1051
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:55,320
in love and also just have the most empathy for

1052
01:00:55,320 --> 01:01:01,360
Gemma. Okay. Like what she's been through. And so

1053
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:07,430
then to him and Heli running away and her like

1054
01:01:07,830 --> 01:01:13,110
getting out. But the cries and the pain, it was.

1055
01:01:13,110 --> 01:01:18,110
Yeah, I was just like girl, but seriously, get off

1056
01:01:18,110 --> 01:01:25,349
the premises, get out. Like so it's, it. I don't,

1057
01:01:25,349 --> 01:01:28,230
I don't view it as being on Audi marks. It's more,

1058
01:01:28,230 --> 01:01:34,750
it's more like yeah, but, but now she's in the

1059
01:01:34,750 --> 01:01:37,810
outer worlds apparently. Supposedly we don't

1060
01:01:37,810 --> 01:01:41,010
really know for sure what will happen to her but.

1061
01:01:41,570 --> 01:01:44,130
So she's given a second chance but she's without

1062
01:01:44,530 --> 01:01:45,170
the person.

1063
01:01:45,970 --> 01:01:46,120
>> Will: Right.

1064
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:50,760
>> Sarah : who like, like it's, it's. It's so like that's

1065
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:54,400
really clever and interesting to me about how, how

1066
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:58,960
they did that because I mean then again, and I say

1067
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,200
this mainly because the gem episode this season

1068
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:05,640
was my favorite episode of this entire show. So

1069
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:09,970
that's told me and I completely abandoned Heli.

1070
01:02:11,410 --> 01:02:16,290
I'm not, not on Team Heli. But I'm also like yeah,

1071
01:02:16,290 --> 01:02:19,490
yeah, you are still as much as you're Heli, you're

1072
01:02:19,490 --> 01:02:22,050
also Helen Helena as well. So I don't know.

1073
01:02:22,610 --> 01:02:27,940
>> Will: Yep, yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean you know,

1074
01:02:27,940 --> 01:02:31,380
and that was the thing about what I think was the

1075
01:02:31,380 --> 01:02:34,830
cool thing about that finale was because Yeah,

1076
01:02:34,830 --> 01:02:37,320
seeing Gemma on the other side of that door and

1077
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,790
just thinking about like you know, when we've had

1078
01:02:39,790 --> 01:02:42,670
like other, you know, like think about the first

1079
01:02:42,670 --> 01:02:44,430
season as far as like what happens when you go on

1080
01:02:44,430 --> 01:02:47,540
the other side of that door and, and and then

1081
01:02:47,540 --> 01:02:50,410
Milchick, you know, whenever Gemma ah, escaped in

1082
01:02:50,410 --> 01:02:53,500
the in her episode and almost got out until

1083
01:02:53,500 --> 01:02:56,570
Milchick like stopped her. it just like. It was

1084
01:02:56,570 --> 01:03:00,250
just so gut wrenching you know, to see they

1085
01:03:00,250 --> 01:03:02,050
finally got. You think they're finally going to

1086
01:03:02,050 --> 01:03:05,330
get their ending and then, and she sees them see,

1087
01:03:05,330 --> 01:03:08,130
you know, even. Even though it's not her husband,

1088
01:03:08,130 --> 01:03:10,610
you know, going back to the, going back to the

1089
01:03:10,610 --> 01:03:14,920
Gretchen and Dylan of it all. it physically it is

1090
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,870
at least that it is her husband, at least outer

1091
01:03:17,870 --> 01:03:20,430
appearances and, and so it was just, it was just

1092
01:03:20,430 --> 01:03:21,710
so, so well done and.

1093
01:03:21,710 --> 01:03:27,020
>> Sarah : But well, her husband is not with her as long as

1094
01:03:27,020 --> 01:03:30,980
he's on the severed floor. So like it's even, even

1095
01:03:30,980 --> 01:03:34,420
the autonomy of it all, it's still at the end of

1096
01:03:34,420 --> 01:03:36,860
the day, it's like, but we were supposed to leave

1097
01:03:36,860 --> 01:03:37,140
together.

1098
01:03:37,780 --> 01:03:38,180
>> Will: Right.

1099
01:03:38,260 --> 01:03:41,140
>> Sarah : And. And then that also begs the question how much

1100
01:03:41,140 --> 01:03:44,740
does like hearing her and witnessing her on that.

1101
01:03:44,740 --> 01:03:47,580
On that other side of that door, how much does she

1102
01:03:47,580 --> 01:03:51,590
realize that as you put it, if she were to walk

1103
01:03:51,590 --> 01:03:54,870
back through that door, like she wouldn't even,

1104
01:03:54,870 --> 01:03:57,070
like she would not have this reaction because she

1105
01:03:57,070 --> 01:04:00,990
would suddenly be Ms. Casey. So it's. It's, it's a

1106
01:04:00,990 --> 01:04:02,230
mind for sure.

1107
01:04:02,230 --> 01:04:06,150
>> Will: It really is. It really is. And yeah. And But

1108
01:04:06,470 --> 01:04:09,270
yeah, I'm glad you said that because it also made.

1109
01:04:09,270 --> 01:04:10,830
While you're, while you're describing that, it

1110
01:04:10,830 --> 01:04:12,990
also gets back to what we were discussing earlier

1111
01:04:12,990 --> 01:04:13,990
about the reintegration.

1112
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:19,240
>> Sarah : Yep. Yeah. And yeah, so will they. I mean it said

1113
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,610
in this episode, that or this episode or the

1114
01:04:22,610 --> 01:04:26,690
episode before to m. To any Mark, you're never

1115
01:04:26,690 --> 01:04:31,040
going to get your happy ending with Heli R. Right.

1116
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:31,920
>> Will: Yeah. Right.

1117
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:36,280
>> Sarah : And. But we are shown through actions in this

1118
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:40,080
episode and specifically the ending Mark S. And

1119
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:43,120
the mark Scout will never get his happy ending

1120
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:53,180
with his dead wife. So. So it's like the, the way

1121
01:04:53,180 --> 01:04:56,690
they're able to twist this. I. When you brought up

1122
01:04:56,690 --> 01:05:00,090
the first season and was doing over some overall

1123
01:05:00,090 --> 01:05:02,610
thoughts, I just kept thinking about how I felt

1124
01:05:02,610 --> 01:05:05,300
like the first season was very much. We're

1125
01:05:05,300 --> 01:05:07,460
introduced to the Severed Floor. These are our

1126
01:05:07,460 --> 01:05:10,100
people and they're curious about what's going on

1127
01:05:10,100 --> 01:05:13,740
in the outer world. In this season we are

1128
01:05:13,740 --> 01:05:18,940
basically we. I. Arguably we spend more time in

1129
01:05:18,940 --> 01:05:21,020
the outer world than we do on the Severed floor.

1130
01:05:21,500 --> 01:05:25,820
And that's because it's about taking the Audis and

1131
01:05:25,820 --> 01:05:30,420
making them more curious or more integrated into

1132
01:05:30,420 --> 01:05:34,190
the any world world. and so then that leads us to

1133
01:05:34,190 --> 01:05:36,110
be like, okay, well then what's season three

1134
01:05:36,190 --> 01:05:38,590
reintegration Explained, please.

1135
01:05:41,390 --> 01:05:45,110
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. Seeing and seeing the, the uprising

1136
01:05:45,110 --> 01:05:48,320
that Heliar was doing on the, on the floor, with

1137
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,080
the, with the severed marching band. I mean. Yeah,

1138
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:52,560
I mean that was, that was that thing. I know we

1139
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:54,640
didn't really touch. I know we talked touched on a

1140
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:56,800
little bit about Milchick and, and, and the whole,

1141
01:05:57,159 --> 01:06:00,999
the whole, you know, scene there with him being,

1142
01:06:00,999 --> 01:06:05,249
you know, getting rushing back. But yeah, I mean

1143
01:06:05,249 --> 01:06:10,009
it's just again, company guy, but also, you know,

1144
01:06:10,089 --> 01:06:11,369
you know, he.

1145
01:06:12,648 --> 01:06:13,369
>> Sarah : Middle management.

1146
01:06:14,169 --> 01:06:15,609
>> Will: Yeah, middle management. Yeah.

1147
01:06:15,609 --> 01:06:18,769
>> Sarah : He's not one of them. But he's also not A superior

1148
01:06:18,769 --> 01:06:19,209
either.

1149
01:06:19,609 --> 01:06:22,729
>> Will: Nope. Yeah. And. And, yeah. And so. Yeah, so when

1150
01:06:22,729 --> 01:06:24,729
he does finally bust out of the. Out of there and

1151
01:06:24,729 --> 01:06:28,310
see in all the, you know, seeing Dylan and, and,

1152
01:06:28,470 --> 01:06:30,950
and, and, you know, heli also just, you know, just

1153
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:32,830
basically like, you know, to give us half a life

1154
01:06:32,830 --> 01:06:35,110
and think we won't fight for it, it gets. If he

1155
01:06:35,110 --> 01:06:37,630
gets out, they'll turn us off like a bunch of

1156
01:06:37,630 --> 01:06:40,230
machines. I mean, again, I mean, like, we were

1157
01:06:40,230 --> 01:06:42,950
just discussing with Mark and. And Gemma as far as

1158
01:06:44,070 --> 01:06:46,660
depending on what side of the door they're on. you

1159
01:06:46,660 --> 01:06:50,980
know, it. It. Their. Their whole perspectives,

1160
01:06:50,980 --> 01:06:54,601
like, change. So, I mean, it's just. It's just so.

1161
01:06:54,601 --> 01:07:00,121
Again, I just really, really, really just, just

1162
01:07:00,521 --> 01:07:03,161
loved how this, this finale just pulled so many

1163
01:07:03,161 --> 01:07:05,961
things together. And, and it works because at the

1164
01:07:05,961 --> 01:07:08,961
end of the day, it's a nice bookend because at the

1165
01:07:08,961 --> 01:07:11,121
beginning of the season, Mark pulled for, you

1166
01:07:11,121 --> 01:07:16,001
know, Mark. Any Mark pulls for his team to come

1167
01:07:16,001 --> 01:07:18,891
back to the floor. At the end of the season, any

1168
01:07:18,891 --> 01:07:22,171
Mark again chooses the floor.

1169
01:07:22,651 --> 01:07:23,131
>> Sarah : Yeah.

1170
01:07:23,531 --> 01:07:25,731
>> Will: And it's happy. And his happy ending with heli.

1171
01:07:25,731 --> 01:07:27,211
Wherever that goes. I mean, of course they're

1172
01:07:27,211 --> 01:07:30,001
running and that's where we end it. But, But yeah,

1173
01:07:30,001 --> 01:07:33,041
I mean, it just. It was just brilliantly executed,

1174
01:07:33,201 --> 01:07:35,521
even with the. Even with the Rocky spots

1175
01:07:35,521 --> 01:07:37,281
throughout. Overall, this thought it was a

1176
01:07:37,281 --> 01:07:38,721
brilliant, brilliant season of television.

1177
01:07:39,841 --> 01:07:44,081
>> Sarah : Yeah, I think I much prefer this season over

1178
01:07:44,081 --> 01:07:48,141
season one. Maybe it's because we actually broke

1179
01:07:48,141 --> 01:07:52,281
down and we're watching the season together. I was

1180
01:07:52,281 --> 01:07:55,801
able to think more and digest more of what was

1181
01:07:55,801 --> 01:07:59,701
going on, than the first time around. But, yeah,

1182
01:07:59,701 --> 01:08:03,982
I, I do see why all of the accolades were given to

1183
01:08:03,982 --> 01:08:07,112
this show. I'm way more on board with it and

1184
01:08:07,112 --> 01:08:11,342
anticipating the third season. and I, I've said

1185
01:08:11,342 --> 01:08:13,662
this multiple times, but I will just say it again.

1186
01:08:14,942 --> 01:08:19,192
Milchick really did deserve that Emmy. and

1187
01:08:19,672 --> 01:08:22,312
arguably there. There was acting, good acting

1188
01:08:22,312 --> 01:08:25,512
across the board, but between the character and

1189
01:08:25,512 --> 01:08:28,792
just all of the moments, there was a wide array of

1190
01:08:28,792 --> 01:08:35,092
emotions. so Team Milchuk for the win. on that

1191
01:08:35,092 --> 01:08:36,512
note, Will, why don't you tell her listen,

1192
01:08:36,582 --> 01:08:37,782
listeners, where they can find you.

1193
01:08:38,422 --> 01:08:40,862
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on all the socials at

1194
01:08:40,862 --> 01:08:45,062
willmpolk W I L L M P O L K And just remember to,

1195
01:08:45,022 --> 01:08:48,042
again, we have our CNS serve, food raising drive.

1196
01:08:48,122 --> 01:08:50,872
So, look for the show notes or scan the QR code on

1197
01:08:50,872 --> 01:08:51,032
our.

1198
01:08:51,032 --> 01:08:56,212
>> Sarah : Socials and you can find me, at SJ Belmont.

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Sjblmnt M. Please Follow our crew on X formerly

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known as Twitter at Scene N Nerd on Blue sky,

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friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and

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threads at Scene ncore Nerd and Visit our website

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www.scenerd podcast.com. but most importantly,

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rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcast,

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Spotify, YouTube or wherever your podcast. Good

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night. Geek out. You're welcome.