Severance S2 E3-4: Why This Could Change EVERYTHING

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>> Will: Foreign.

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>> Sarah : Greetings Nerds. This is Scene N nerd. I'm your

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host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is

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our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing

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tonight, Will?

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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. Hope you're doing well.

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Happy November.

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>> Sarah : I know I. This year has been strange. I was

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thinking about this earlier today. Like, I know so

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much has happened that I understand how many feel

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like it's been a long year, but for me, it's been

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a very quick year because I feel like so much has

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transpired that I view it as, well, there was

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2025, and then July hit, and next thing I know,

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I'm in November.

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>> Will: I was thinking that too. Today. I was like, I

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think. I think it was. Yeah. As I was posting some

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stuff as far as, like, our plans for this month,

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which is to cover severance and. And. And just

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really, like, thinking about, like, it's. It's

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November, and. And you're right. And really has,

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like, flown by the second half of the year. it

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just seems like it was, like, crawling up the

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June, and then, boom, it's like, oh, okay, all

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right. We're. We're here at Thanksgiving.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, I feel like there was a lot of ant, so that

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kind of helped move this year along, because as

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soon as Superman hit theaters, it was just like.

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And then Fantastic Four, and then we took a break

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for family stuff. And then. And then the next

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thing. And the next thing. It's just. There was a

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lot. Not to say there wasn't a lot of content at

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the first half of the year. I just feel like

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there. There's. There's really divide. It was,

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like, a slow start, but it's finishing at a rapid

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pace.

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>> Will: for sure.

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>> Sarah : All right, so that brings us into Severance Season

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two, Episode three, who is Alive format. Four

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employees of a mysterious company, Mark, Helly,

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Irving, and Dylan, are trying to uncover the truth

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about the workplace and secrets that surround

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them. You know, I need to stop reading IMDb

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summaries because, like, well, maybe not stop, but

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here's my thing, Will, Okay. Since we just got

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finished covering Gen V, Those are brilliant IMDb

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summaries. And then I get like, that. That could

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honestly summarize this entire show.

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>> Will: Yeah, for real.

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>> Sarah : I mean, where are the goats?

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>> Will: Goats? Where are the. Yeah, for real.

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>> Sarah : Weird paintings. I mean, there's so many things

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they could have grabbed on from this episode to

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put in there to spice it up, but geez.

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>> Will: Yeah, we're in a 4 temp. You know, the four

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tempers with malice and the rams. The goats. Yeah,

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I Mean, it's just. Yeah.

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>> Sarah : It's so weird.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : but before we get to the goats, because we will,

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unlike the summary, we will get to the goats. I

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want to start with Dylan. Okay. Because he, he

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really dominated this episode for me. I be. Mainly

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because of a lot of what we were talking about

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last week with him.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : And I like how. How he's clearly on his own story.

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more so than any of the other three. And, and I

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don't find it distracting.

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>> Will: No.

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>> Sarah : You know, adds more to It flesh out so much

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perspective on being a severed employee and not.

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And last week from watching. Watching the second

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episode in particular and seeing him and his

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struggle to hold a job or to find a job after

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being fired from Lumon.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Then to go into the innie world and to see that

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that carrot of family visitation is motivating him

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to like not plot but really like stick to the

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thing because he can get a reward. And then we see

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the reward and shout out to the casting because

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Merritt Weaver. I was just like yes. I miss this

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woman. I'm so glad she's on the screen and I'm so

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glad. This pairing and it just the overall arc

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between this, this visitation that I did not

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expect to happen so soon.

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>> Will: Yep.

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>> Sarah : But then to have it leave with a kiss on the

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cheek. And then to parallel that with the Audi

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world and her. The white lie she told about the

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habit of kissing Dylan on the cheek. But, but the

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Dylan on the couch did not get no cheek, kiss. Or

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I think he got a peck. But. But I. Sorry, I, I

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said that wrong. The, the. The. The thing that was

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different was the I love you.

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>> Will: Yes. That's what I was thinking. I was about to

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bring that up. Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Yeah.

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>> Will: Yeah. Because that was. Yeah. I mean you know we,

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we have to your point with the pairings and, and

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you know this is you know, Dylan's story and I

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will say whenever I had to like watch the I had to

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watch the Audi family visitation scene a couple

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times because just to roll it back just a little

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bit. thinking about you know when we were

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discussing the, the IMDb summary these shows. I

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mean there's so much packed in in an hour and I

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had. And so with any Dylan and, and the story

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with, with Gretchen and, and the I love you and

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you know this like I was starting to like, you

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know, thinking about the relationships in this

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show as far as you know, Mark, Mark S. And Helly,

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and Bert and now Dylan. Any villain Has Gretchen.

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And, and just how when you juxtapose any Dylan

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with Outtie Dylan and they're in this. Just the

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whole. Just, you know, any Audi Dylan just sort of

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seems like a guy who, like, you know, and, you

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know, as they were talking about, like, he can't

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hold down a job. He just seems to just be co. You

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know, just a, Just, Just a lump on. Literally a

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lump on the couch kind of individual in some, you

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know, as far as what we've seen of him. but, you

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know, also going back to the la. You know, with

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the, you know, the difficulty that he's had as far

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as just holding a job, whereas the, The Annie

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Dylan seems to be more curious. I don't know. I

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don't know if curious is the right word, but he

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just seems to be more, More alive.

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>> Sarah : Right.

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>> Will: Dennis. Outer Persona.

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>> Sarah : Right. And I think the converse. What, the

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details. Gretchen is able to sum up in the 18

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minutes, what however many seconds, you're. They.

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They give us some, Some clues about that because

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she talks about how he has trouble keeping other

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jobs, but he, she. But. And then, and then Dylan

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starts to question, like, well, what's wrong with

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him?

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : And she's very adamant. Nothing. But he hasn't

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found his thing. And that is heartbreaking

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because. I see. And that's where I kind of like,

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wanted to chime in. When you said he was a lump on

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the couch, I was like, no, he. He is just because

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he's not at work, so he's on the couch, he's

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hanging out with his kids. His wife is suddenly

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leaving like, like to go to her job. So their

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ships in the night.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : so that's what leads us, gives us some context for

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how their relationship is a bit strained given

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their, like, need for income. And but. But that's

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leaving like one minute of togetherness.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : So. And then Dylan, who we have seen as an innie

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for so long, you see, he. He does belong on the

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severed floor. Like, we. And I think we've talked

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about this before with this idea that this show

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does really good in terms of that sense of if you

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are your job, you have that identity as like, for

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eight hours, nine hours a day, I am in this place

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and I have this identity, which is not. I'm not

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saying it's. It's completely different, but it.

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There are slight differences between your behavior

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at work versus your behavior at home. And so to

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me, I just. I feel like in that conversation

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Gretchen clearly said he just hasn't like, found

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where he belongs. Which is heartbreaking because

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Dylan feels like he belongs there, like he's at

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his job. And so then you start to think about it,

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okay, well, how up is it that a person who in the

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outside world is just trying to find a place where

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he can belong to support his family. And the

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reality is he has found that, but because he's

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found that as a severed person, like, he will

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never know that fulfillment that any. Any Dylan

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has.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Oh, it's so good.

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>> Will: It really is. It's just so. It's just so. Yeah. I

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mean, and I don't want to jump ahead to the fourth

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episode, but I think, you know, but I think going

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backwards to the second episode and this also

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just, you know, like you were saying, he, you

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know, Dylan does belong on that severed floor.

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And, and. And. And you know, and just thinking

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like in the second episode where he's at the job

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interview and you know, talk, you know, and. And.

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And we see like, you know, so maybe I was being a

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bit harsh on calling Al Dylan a lump on the couch

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because he, you know, he is trying to find that

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purpose and, and. And you know, and for a moment

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through, you know, job interview that he was. He

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was in, you know, hard in a sense that it was just

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like, you know, it's just the tortured

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conversations that we have with, you know, with

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job interviews sometimes, you know, I think he was

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bonding with the guy until it hit that he was on,

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you know, that he works for Lumon and he's a

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severed Lumon employee and everything from that

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point forward, like, the tenor of the interview

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changed. And so, you know, so I think that gave us

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a glimpse into what Gretchen was talking about

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when any Dylan was asking, well, is he a dick? Is

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he, you know, what is. What's wrong with them?

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That job inter. That, you know, it can. That that

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job interview really contextualizes what we see in

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the third episode for like, why, to your point, as

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far as their relationship, Outtie Dillon's, you

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know, lack. Lack of not being able to find his

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thing. Well, whereas any Dillon has found his

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thing, you know, because of. Because of all the

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issues of, you know, how many people in the Audi

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world sees this, you know, sees this severed.

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>> Sarah : Yeah.

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>> Will: Deployment. He, you know, he's. He's probably had.

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That. He's probably is defeated at this point

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because every time he, you know, he's probably

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gets to like to the, you know, 90% through the

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interview, and then they bring that up and then

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I'm sorry, you know, we'll take your thing under

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Advancement.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. I mean, I. I think you raise an excellent,

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point in terms of the irony that And. And what she

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did not say is that technically speaking, based on

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that scene you were just talking about, the thing

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that is wrong with him is that he's a severed

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employee, which now. Now I wonder how that

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conversation would have gone if she had said that.

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And like, what any Dylan. How any Dylan would have

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reacted to that. but the thing, like, it's not

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like, now that he's back with Lumon, he's not job

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hunting. but. But there is still a, a depressed

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nature about him because he does not. Once

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they're. Once they walk out of the office, they

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don't know what life is as an innie. Just like

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what they don't like. The innies don't know, like,

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what life is as an Outtie. So. And that's where

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you would think with a show like this that has

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been on now for two seasons, people would get

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tired. But I feel like the pace that they are,

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like, unraveling this onion makes that whole

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scenario much more fascinating and like a

245
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spiritual, stable place rather than. Oh, well,

246
00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:48,580
this is getting a bit tiresome.

247
00:13:49,220 --> 00:13:51,990
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah, well, I think. Yeah, I heard. I was,

248
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,080
heard a conversation. They were talking about the

249
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,480
showrunners and the creator was, you know, making

250
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,880
a point as far as, like, season one was sort of

251
00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,690
like, you know, for the. It was, you know, young

252
00:14:03,690 --> 00:14:07,330
child. And now, you know, season two is like the.

253
00:14:07,330 --> 00:14:09,330
We're. We're going into adolescence as far as,

254
00:14:09,330 --> 00:14:14,150
like a growth pattern, of. Of the. Of the show. So

255
00:14:14,150 --> 00:14:16,510
it's like. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you with the

256
00:14:16,510 --> 00:14:19,270
pacing because there, you know, this. This third

257
00:14:19,270 --> 00:14:21,710
episode, and I know we'll get to it, you know, it

258
00:14:21,710 --> 00:14:23,790
had, you know, there were some things that for

259
00:14:23,790 --> 00:14:26,430
other series probably would have been the

260
00:14:26,430 --> 00:14:29,230
penultimate or the finale as far as some of the

261
00:14:29,230 --> 00:14:32,010
things that happen in this episode. but, and. And.

262
00:14:32,010 --> 00:14:35,110
And, But, But you're right. I mean, but the pacing

263
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:37,670
here is just like, oh, yeah, we're gonna. We're

264
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:39,190
gonna wrap some things up. We're gonna. We're

265
00:14:39,190 --> 00:14:43,030
gonna keep. We're gonna start. For me, I will say

266
00:14:43,510 --> 00:14:46,070
episode threes at first kind of, you know,

267
00:14:46,070 --> 00:14:48,630
especially with the scene with Dylan and Gretchen.

268
00:14:48,630 --> 00:14:50,990
I, you know, I said I had to watch it, had to stop

269
00:14:50,990 --> 00:14:54,030
it and go back a couple times. Part of it was I

270
00:14:54,030 --> 00:14:56,670
felt like the pacing was a bit slow to me for

271
00:14:56,670 --> 00:15:02,910
whatever reason. but then. But then next thing.

272
00:15:02,910 --> 00:15:05,590
But all. But at the same Time for what they were

273
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:09,670
doing. It was the right pace. So I wasn't like.

274
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:11,750
>> Sarah : I have no idea what you mean by that.

275
00:15:11,830 --> 00:15:14,030
>> Will: What I mean by that is just basically I didn't

276
00:15:14,030 --> 00:15:16,700
feel, it was like. I didn't feel like it was

277
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:17,340
rushed.

278
00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:18,860
>> Sarah : Right, right.

279
00:15:19,180 --> 00:15:21,220
>> Will: Unlike some other things that may have happened

280
00:15:21,220 --> 00:15:22,540
that happened in this episode.

281
00:15:22,540 --> 00:15:22,940
>> Sarah : Right?

282
00:15:23,340 --> 00:15:23,820
>> Will: Yeah.

283
00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:28,670
>> Sarah : yeah, I, I, I don't think that severance knows how

284
00:15:28,670 --> 00:15:33,400
to rush, but I, that. Because I had the slow issue

285
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,880
with the fourth episode. But we'll get there.

286
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:41,240
Irving, in this episode, he ends up, trying to

287
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:47,070
find, the hallway. And he. Well, but he's looking

288
00:15:47,070 --> 00:15:50,070
for the hallway, but he's also trying to help Mark

289
00:15:50,390 --> 00:15:56,170
find Ms. Casey. And so he has to go to his, What

290
00:15:56,170 --> 00:15:57,210
is Bert's department?

291
00:15:57,450 --> 00:15:59,610
>> Will: O, D. O, N, D. Yeah.

292
00:15:59,610 --> 00:16:03,650
>> Sarah : O, N, D. Which. And then we, we get, we meet

293
00:16:03,650 --> 00:16:07,490
Felicia and it's in. And it's a nice moment

294
00:16:07,490 --> 00:16:11,850
between them, but. Oh, the breadcrumb that she

295
00:16:11,850 --> 00:16:16,810
drops about what is we now known as the exports

296
00:16:17,130 --> 00:16:17,690
hall.

297
00:16:18,010 --> 00:16:18,410
>> Will: Yes.

298
00:16:18,410 --> 00:16:23,050
>> Sarah : And O and D used to send a lot of shipments there,

299
00:16:23,410 --> 00:16:25,970
and they used to go themselves, but now they just.

300
00:16:25,970 --> 00:16:29,330
A guy gets sent to pick up the shipments and go

301
00:16:29,330 --> 00:16:34,330
down there. So emphasis on the word exports. Very

302
00:16:34,330 --> 00:16:40,330
interesting. but, and, and, and yeah, that's,

303
00:16:40,330 --> 00:16:43,170
that's really, that's really what Irving is about.

304
00:16:44,050 --> 00:16:47,500
there are signs in this episode that he does not

305
00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:50,340
trust heli. Granted, we've known that since

306
00:16:50,340 --> 00:16:51,260
episode two.

307
00:16:51,740 --> 00:16:52,300
>> Will: Yeah.

308
00:16:53,820 --> 00:16:57,060
>> Sarah : Or no, was it episode two or episode no? It's the

309
00:16:57,060 --> 00:17:00,150
first episode when, when the Innies are reunited

310
00:17:00,310 --> 00:17:04,870
and they go around sharing, and that's when Helena

311
00:17:04,870 --> 00:17:07,430
chooses to say Night Gardener.

312
00:17:07,830 --> 00:17:08,310
>> Will: Yeah.

313
00:17:08,310 --> 00:17:09,750
>> Sarah : Wrong move. Wrong move.

314
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:10,950
>> Will: Wrong move. Yep.

315
00:17:11,830 --> 00:17:15,070
>> Sarah : That was the start. And then it just continues

316
00:17:15,070 --> 00:17:18,080
where she can never quite do or say the right

317
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,400
thing. In particular with Irving, where it's like,

318
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,480
that's not what Helly would have done there. But.

319
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:25,080
Okay.

320
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:26,370
>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

321
00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:31,630
>> Sarah : and, and we, we also, speaking about art and all

322
00:17:31,630 --> 00:17:35,510
of that, Seth. Seth gets a gift from the board.

323
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:39,030
Will, what did you think about how the board

324
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:41,870
wanted to make him feel appreciated? Appreciated.

325
00:17:42,190 --> 00:17:44,830
>> Will: Oh, God, I'm so glad you brought that up, because

326
00:17:45,790 --> 00:17:50,430
just like Seth, as he was looking at that, I had

327
00:17:50,430 --> 00:17:54,270
the same reaction where I was just like, what the.

328
00:17:56,670 --> 00:18:01,590
It was. I mean, there's so many levels of, with

329
00:18:01,590 --> 00:18:03,750
that, with that scene. I mean, you know, one when

330
00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:07,970
they had like, the, you know, you know, with Cure

331
00:18:09,010 --> 00:18:11,730
basically, like, black facing here.

332
00:18:15,810 --> 00:18:17,010
>> Sarah : Oh, my God.

333
00:18:18,610 --> 00:18:23,019
>> Will: It really was. I mean, and Irving, you know, and,

334
00:18:23,019 --> 00:18:25,500
and when Seth was looking at it and he was just

335
00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:30,260
like, thanks. But it really brought on so many

336
00:18:30,260 --> 00:18:35,590
things as far as just like, you know, just like,

337
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:37,430
you know, the corporate, you know, think about

338
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:40,070
like over the last few years and you know, with,

339
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:44,310
with how cup corporations shift in moods with

340
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:47,430
political wins and stuff and how like, you know, a

341
00:18:47,430 --> 00:18:50,350
few years ago everything was like, oh, we're so

342
00:18:50,350 --> 00:18:53,910
woke. We're so. We're so fitting in. We're, you

343
00:18:53,910 --> 00:18:56,070
know, black lives matter. We're this for that and

344
00:18:56,070 --> 00:18:58,510
all that. And now, you know, now that the winds

345
00:18:58,510 --> 00:19:00,590
have shifted a bit, now they're like, oh no, no,

346
00:19:00,590 --> 00:19:02,190
no, no, we're going to kiss the ring and we're

347
00:19:02,190 --> 00:19:04,410
going to like, you know, you know, pay money to

348
00:19:04,410 --> 00:19:07,530
CBS to you know, settle lawsuits and all those

349
00:19:07,530 --> 00:19:10,330
kind of things. So I felt like that was what was

350
00:19:10,330 --> 00:19:12,650
going on here with, with, with. With Lumon where

351
00:19:12,650 --> 00:19:15,130
they're like, you know, we're trying, we're trying

352
00:19:15,130 --> 00:19:17,290
to fit in and we're trying to make you feel part

353
00:19:17,290 --> 00:19:21,330
of the company and you know, and, and, and trying

354
00:19:21,330 --> 00:19:25,010
to relate and it was just, it was just like the,

355
00:19:25,330 --> 00:19:30,530
the racism and the, and the. In the. And the just.

356
00:19:30,690 --> 00:19:34,250
Just bad taste was just. Just seeping from that

357
00:19:34,250 --> 00:19:37,050
scene and even like, you know, when, when Natalie

358
00:19:37,050 --> 00:19:40,370
was like talking to was, you know, was. Was there

359
00:19:40,370 --> 00:19:47,290
and like talking with Seth and I mean, you know,

360
00:19:47,290 --> 00:19:49,650
just gotta pull up the, the image. I mean it's

361
00:19:49,650 --> 00:19:53,650
just like. Yeah, it's just they both had that

362
00:19:53,730 --> 00:19:57,040
share look of like uncomfort whenever she, you

363
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,040
know, she disconnects from the board and even

364
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,280
though she, you know, it was one of that to me

365
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,360
when I was watching that scene, they both had that

366
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,680
look of understanding as far as like, this is just

367
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,870
so wrong. but, you know, but you know, but at the

368
00:20:11,870 --> 00:20:13,070
end of the day, you know, you don't want to lose.

369
00:20:13,070 --> 00:20:14,950
You know, sometimes you guys got to like, swallow

370
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:16,750
your tongue and just like, okay, I just got to do

371
00:20:16,750 --> 00:20:20,230
my job. And but at least at the end of the

372
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:23,230
episode, you know, we saw Seth like basically take

373
00:20:23,570 --> 00:20:26,890
the, take these, these things, these portraits and

374
00:20:26,890 --> 00:20:29,090
you know, put them back in a box and put them away

375
00:20:30,290 --> 00:20:32,450
in the closet there, the storage room there and

376
00:20:32,610 --> 00:20:36,290
where, where they belong. And you know, but I do

377
00:20:36,290 --> 00:20:42,010
think that, that all of that is going to like, you

378
00:20:42,010 --> 00:20:46,530
know, have a role in what may come down the line

379
00:20:46,530 --> 00:20:49,050
as far as like if Seth ever has to like to pick

380
00:20:49,050 --> 00:20:51,750
up, you know, pick big aside or something, with

381
00:20:51,750 --> 00:20:55,150
the company or just, or just understanding what

382
00:20:55,150 --> 00:20:56,750
his Whole role in, in.

383
00:20:56,750 --> 00:21:04,430
>> Sarah : This whole process is so I think a scene like the

384
00:21:04,430 --> 00:21:07,270
reaction to the painting and then also the putting

385
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:13,280
away of the painting, just is the, the example of

386
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:16,890
many throughout this season that we'll find of

387
00:21:17,450 --> 00:21:21,540
why, Charmel Tillman got an Emmy for this season.

388
00:21:21,940 --> 00:21:22,500
>> Will: Yeah.

389
00:21:22,580 --> 00:21:27,540
>> Sarah : And it's because everything you just said, like

390
00:21:27,540 --> 00:21:31,940
there's that. But I also feel like the way he

391
00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:37,060
plays Milchick is. It's very similar to the way

392
00:21:37,060 --> 00:21:42,580
the actors who plays Natalie, that performance.

393
00:21:42,980 --> 00:21:46,620
There's a, there's a hint of artificial

394
00:21:47,340 --> 00:21:52,380
intelligence, like a roboticness about it where

395
00:21:54,300 --> 00:21:59,020
it's, it's so interesting because we have also we

396
00:21:59,020 --> 00:22:03,980
see that there is like Milchick is not divided

397
00:22:03,980 --> 00:22:07,630
between any and Audi. Right, right. Because we've

398
00:22:07,630 --> 00:22:13,030
seen him react the same exact way as an Outtie.

399
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:17,310
So, so there, there is no which. And then it just

400
00:22:17,310 --> 00:22:20,950
makes you wonder like well, well, well, what is

401
00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:27,030
it? Why is it that they, they. There's the,

402
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:32,230
There's a, albeit a manufacturedness about them.

403
00:22:32,890 --> 00:22:33,210
>> Will: Yeah.

404
00:22:33,210 --> 00:22:36,650
>> Sarah : That just makes you question. And we don't know

405
00:22:36,730 --> 00:22:43,130
anything about them. where. I also feel like on

406
00:22:43,130 --> 00:22:45,810
top of all of the racism you were just talking

407
00:22:45,810 --> 00:22:51,770
about, there was also just like there was

408
00:22:51,770 --> 00:22:54,490
something else. There was, there was something

409
00:22:54,490 --> 00:22:58,880
else of that was shared between them of like, of

410
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:04,120
like this is, this is this is where we come from.

411
00:23:04,830 --> 00:23:08,110
and this is like the re. It's, it's so

412
00:23:08,110 --> 00:23:16,190
interesting. the, the, the levels and, and Yeah.

413
00:23:16,190 --> 00:23:20,150
And then we also see Natalie very much like

414
00:23:20,150 --> 00:23:26,160
Milchick out in the outer world, snuggling up to

415
00:23:26,380 --> 00:23:30,770
Rickon and talking about how they want to bring

416
00:23:30,850 --> 00:23:35,290
his work into the, any world, into the Severed

417
00:23:35,290 --> 00:23:40,370
Floor and rewrite the book, but from an any

418
00:23:40,370 --> 00:23:45,570
perspective. And because there are certain words

419
00:23:46,260 --> 00:23:51,100
that Innies respond to and it's just, And I, I, I

420
00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:54,820
think, I think we need that book for just our own

421
00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:57,220
Audi understanding of the world.

422
00:23:57,620 --> 00:23:58,500
>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

423
00:24:01,540 --> 00:24:04,340
>> Sarah : But I, because I, I really just want to understand

424
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:07,140
what words in particular is she talking about.

425
00:24:07,540 --> 00:24:07,910
>> Will: Yeah.

426
00:24:07,910 --> 00:24:10,410
>> Sarah : because that would be very interesting. But then

427
00:24:10,410 --> 00:24:14,330
again that would, that also I think would give us

428
00:24:14,330 --> 00:24:17,370
clues as to what's really going on at Lumon and

429
00:24:17,370 --> 00:24:20,540
what their overall goal is. and while, while

430
00:24:20,540 --> 00:24:24,260
they're doing that, we also get Devon, who leads

431
00:24:24,260 --> 00:24:30,250
us into Mark's overall storyline. Which, which we,

432
00:24:30,250 --> 00:24:33,130
we get two. We get. We could both get an Outtie

433
00:24:33,130 --> 00:24:38,400
and an Innie. Mark. Because the, Anyone I could

434
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,400
care less about. I'm just gonna be honest. The

435
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:46,920
goats were Fine. But, and, and I, and I kind of

436
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,200
wanted this. I kind of asked her and I know this

437
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:55,160
is my own problem, but I, I didn't, it didn't take

438
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,760
me out, but it didn't suck me in, if that makes

439
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,480
sense. It was kind of just there and I kind of was

440
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,870
just like, can we have more, can we get more, some

441
00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:10,630
more information from Felicia or. Can we get some

442
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:14,630
more information? I, I, for whatever reason. And

443
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:18,600
I, and maybe it's probably because, there were a

444
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,720
lot of metaphors and all of these other stuff

445
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,010
going on in, in those scenes. but, but you like

446
00:25:27,010 --> 00:25:27,330
them?

447
00:25:28,290 --> 00:25:31,210
>> Will: Yes. Yeah. I mean, it was, you know, for, I guess,

448
00:25:31,210 --> 00:25:33,250
you know, speaking of any Mark, I mean, there were

449
00:25:33,250 --> 00:25:35,370
like two stories going on because at first, you

450
00:25:35,370 --> 00:25:38,610
know, it kicks off as we, you know, as we talked

451
00:25:38,610 --> 00:25:41,460
about earlier with Dylan, and, and Irving, you

452
00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:43,620
know, they were in the office there. You know,

453
00:25:43,620 --> 00:25:46,220
they had had the missing thing looking for Ms.

454
00:25:46,430 --> 00:25:49,000
for, Gemma or Ms. Casey, as she's known in any

455
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,200
world. And so, you know, so, you know, so it

456
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,370
definitely led to them, you know, running into, I

457
00:25:56,370 --> 00:25:58,010
can't remember Gwendolyn Christie's character's

458
00:25:58,010 --> 00:26:00,730
name, but, you know, she was just, I guess they

459
00:26:00,730 --> 00:26:03,930
were like the, what was it? The m m. Mn. The, Oh,

460
00:26:03,930 --> 00:26:08,210
gosh, 40. The multi. They were like, basically

461
00:26:08,449 --> 00:26:13,690
the, oh, the animals. Natural. yeah, yeah. floor.

462
00:26:13,690 --> 00:26:17,250
And you know, so it was, you know, so we see, you

463
00:26:17,250 --> 00:26:19,210
know, so we've seen the goats from the first

464
00:26:19,210 --> 00:26:21,850
season. You know, now they have their whole wing

465
00:26:21,850 --> 00:26:25,670
and you know, of course, M. Mark and, and Heli

466
00:26:25,670 --> 00:26:28,950
are, you know, having to go down a shaft and, and,

467
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:33,910
and, you know, you know, figure this whole, this

468
00:26:33,910 --> 00:26:36,270
whole thing out. So, you know, so I think it was,

469
00:26:36,270 --> 00:26:38,470
I think it was just a good connection. I think it

470
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:43,830
was just basically deepening. What, you know,

471
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:48,790
what's the purpose of, of these goats in the, in,

472
00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:51,710
in the Lumon world? I mean, are they, you know, is

473
00:26:51,710 --> 00:26:54,230
it for cloning experiments? I mean, you know,

474
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:56,950
given all the, all the ritual, you know, all the,

475
00:26:56,950 --> 00:27:00,150
all the religious iconography and stuff with, with

476
00:27:00,150 --> 00:27:03,030
Kier. I mean, is it a, is it a sacrifice thing

477
00:27:03,030 --> 00:27:05,310
that they're breeding these goats for? I mean,

478
00:27:05,310 --> 00:27:06,390
it's, it's any, you know.

479
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:10,470
>> Sarah : I, I, I can see that and I understand that.

480
00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:11,410
>> Will: Yeah.

481
00:27:12,780 --> 00:27:16,400
>> Sarah : I, but I also kind of separate the two. And what I

482
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,310
mean by that is, And I'm just gonna give a shout

483
00:27:20,310 --> 00:27:23,390
out that I have been listening to the ringer

484
00:27:23,390 --> 00:27:27,360
Ringer TV talk, about Each episode and they

485
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:31,120
brought up a fabulous point and I forgot about

486
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,840
this and I was sort of kicking myself because I

487
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,360
read the book and I've seen the movie Never Let Me

488
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:38,960
go. Are you familiar with this?

489
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:40,000
>> Will: I have not.

490
00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:44,060
>> Sarah : Okay. It stars Carey Mulligan and Andrew Garfield

491
00:27:44,060 --> 00:27:47,220
and it, the, the book is better than the movie.

492
00:27:47,220 --> 00:27:52,100
The movie is. So, so. But the essential thing is,

493
00:27:54,510 --> 00:27:57,390
these p, these characters who we meet in the book,

494
00:27:58,290 --> 00:28:05,330
we learn are, have been created for, for these

495
00:28:05,330 --> 00:28:10,640
people who may need a kidney, who may need an

496
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:15,800
organ transplant. And so, so you're following a

497
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,480
love story and you realize that these lives are

498
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,680
not, are not technically theirs. Like in a way

499
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,480
where eventually when their person needs something

500
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,930
like a transplant, like they're gonna get taken

501
00:28:33,930 --> 00:28:39,810
away and they're just used for parts. So, so. And

502
00:28:39,810 --> 00:28:43,810
they brought this up and it stuck with me because

503
00:28:44,290 --> 00:28:48,740
of the goat scene and all of the, the language

504
00:28:48,740 --> 00:28:52,340
around husbandry and cattle and, and especially

505
00:28:52,420 --> 00:28:56,020
the last. What, what allows Mark to get what he

506
00:28:56,020 --> 00:29:00,510
wants in this exchange is essentially by just

507
00:29:00,510 --> 00:29:06,310
comparing Ms. Casey to a goat. Like, well, you

508
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:09,070
care about your goats just like I care about Ms.

509
00:29:09,070 --> 00:29:14,840
Casey. Like so, so what are you saying here? and

510
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,150
then I, they, they also reminded me in a, previous

511
00:29:19,230 --> 00:29:24,640
episode recap that the first thing that Helly says

512
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,240
when she enters the severed floor and I think the

513
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,840
first episode is she asked the question, am I

514
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:34,480
cattle?

515
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,400
>> Will: Yeah, I do remember that.

516
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,800
>> Sarah : So, so we get that in the first episode. We get

517
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,680
the sheeps in the finale and now we're getting

518
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:50,810
sheep again. And we're also dealing with super

519
00:29:50,890 --> 00:29:54,450
blending of any and outies because we also know

520
00:29:54,450 --> 00:29:58,250
that the heli in the scene is also Helena. It's

521
00:29:58,250 --> 00:30:06,130
not Ellie. So, so it's so I, I, I think when I,

522
00:30:06,130 --> 00:30:11,690
when I look at the scene and think about the, the

523
00:30:11,690 --> 00:30:18,570
continued themes of twins, which we'll get there

524
00:30:19,290 --> 00:30:24,250
and, and harvesting of organs or people that are

525
00:30:24,250 --> 00:30:29,810
created to extend the lives of other people. I, I

526
00:30:29,810 --> 00:30:34,970
enjoy it, but the way it played out on screen,

527
00:30:35,290 --> 00:30:37,610
like what I'm, what I'm getting at. And this will

528
00:30:37,610 --> 00:30:41,130
summarize my point. I appreciate the subtext more

529
00:30:41,130 --> 00:30:43,810
than I actually appreciate the scene itself.

530
00:30:44,210 --> 00:30:46,810
>> Will: Yeah, I get that. I get that. I mean. And I guess,

531
00:30:46,810 --> 00:30:48,690
you know, I was saying earlier about the pacing.

532
00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:51,580
>> Will: This is where, this is where I struggled with this

533
00:30:51,580 --> 00:30:52,260
scene as well.

534
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:58,009
>> Will: I did, I, I did. Until I think the, the thing that

535
00:30:58,009 --> 00:31:01,690
got me kind whenever the guy was asking like can

536
00:31:01,690 --> 00:31:03,770
we see your bellies? And you know, and the the

537
00:31:03,770 --> 00:31:07,810
whole, yeah, you know, as well about pouches and

538
00:31:07,810 --> 00:31:09,730
that kind of stuff, but that, those, those were

539
00:31:09,730 --> 00:31:12,270
the moments that I was like, okay, all right, I,

540
00:31:12,270 --> 00:31:18,110
I, I got, pull me back in. But overall I, I, I

541
00:31:18,510 --> 00:31:23,780
like you. I think this, this was the, the Outtie

542
00:31:23,780 --> 00:31:27,860
Mark stuff definitely had my interest more than

543
00:31:27,860 --> 00:31:29,740
what was going on here with the goat floor. Even

544
00:31:29,740 --> 00:31:31,100
though I noticed it's probably very, very

545
00:31:31,100 --> 00:31:33,940
significant. I will, I will stipulate to that. But

546
00:31:33,940 --> 00:31:37,110
it just didn't. Like you said, I think the, the

547
00:31:37,620 --> 00:31:41,020
execution in an already dense episode just didn't,

548
00:31:41,020 --> 00:31:42,860
it didn't pop for me. Unlike some of the other

549
00:31:42,860 --> 00:31:43,140
things.

550
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:50,070
>> Sarah : Yeah, I, I do think that with Mark, what is clever

551
00:31:50,070 --> 00:31:55,590
and different about this episode is for once the

552
00:31:55,590 --> 00:31:58,470
Audi version of him and the NE version are

553
00:31:58,470 --> 00:32:02,400
technically doing the same thing. Yes, they are

554
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:07,040
both looking for, for this woman that they, they

555
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,240
now, they call her different things, but it's the

556
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:14,320
same person. And, and so I think that that is a

557
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,160
great way to start the episode with that. Okay, we

558
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:23,600
now have these two characters who are on the same

559
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:29,170
page and heading to the same point. So, so their

560
00:32:29,170 --> 00:32:32,690
purpose is suddenly the same. Which makes the

561
00:32:32,690 --> 00:32:37,050
ending and the choice to reintegrate that Mark

562
00:32:37,130 --> 00:32:42,490
makes that much more powerful because, because now

563
00:32:42,650 --> 00:32:46,580
they are supposedly re, they, well, sorry, I

564
00:32:46,580 --> 00:32:49,620
shouldn't say supposedly now that now from what we

565
00:32:49,620 --> 00:32:53,130
understand based off of that final scene is

566
00:32:53,130 --> 00:32:59,820
reintegration, occurs. And so what, what were your

567
00:32:59,820 --> 00:33:05,010
thoughts about the, the choice of having him

568
00:33:05,010 --> 00:33:05,970
reintegrate?

569
00:33:07,090 --> 00:33:10,210
>> Will: So up until this moment, and you know, earlier

570
00:33:10,290 --> 00:33:13,370
even I touched on this earlier while we were in

571
00:33:13,370 --> 00:33:16,050
our discussion, I felt that this, this, this, this

572
00:33:16,050 --> 00:33:18,870
moment of the reintegration was rushed. But now

573
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:21,070
that you like, now that you brought, now that you

574
00:33:21,070 --> 00:33:25,640
like sort of contextualized it for me, where both

575
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,320
any and Outtie Mark are looking for the same

576
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,080
thing. It makes sense now why they did it when

577
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:33,800
they did it.

578
00:33:34,670 --> 00:33:38,540
>> Will: To sync up, to sync up, what's going on in both

579
00:33:38,540 --> 00:33:39,100
worlds.

580
00:33:39,580 --> 00:33:46,250
>> Sarah : Right. So because, because it's also, we, we don't

581
00:33:46,250 --> 00:33:49,290
realize it until very later on in that later in

582
00:33:49,290 --> 00:33:54,130
the episode. But for once it's not any Mark trying

583
00:33:54,130 --> 00:33:58,490
to get a message outside. It is Outtie Mark trying

584
00:33:58,490 --> 00:34:04,370
to get a message inside because, because suddenly

585
00:34:04,610 --> 00:34:07,970
he suspects. And then what really solidifies his

586
00:34:07,970 --> 00:34:11,990
choice at the end is he's told his wife is still

587
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:12,790
alive there.

588
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,560
>> Sarah : And, and once he's told he's like it, I don't care

589
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,320
if I die tomorrow, I want to go see her. I, I Need

590
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:19,960
to understand.

591
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,920
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That it totally, totally does

592
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,880
make sense. And, you know, he's willing to take

593
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,640
the risk, even though her last subject PD just

594
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,800
like, you know, ended up dropping dead there in

595
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,310
the. In the parking lot. But, But yeah, it makes

596
00:34:35,310 --> 00:34:38,770
sense now why. You know, but it's funny how, you

597
00:34:38,770 --> 00:34:40,660
know, whenever, You know, whenever he was there

598
00:34:40,660 --> 00:34:43,060
with. They were making the box and. And the

599
00:34:43,060 --> 00:34:44,980
lighting and stuff, and, you know, I think it was

600
00:34:44,980 --> 00:34:47,420
getting a little glimpse into, like, you know, we.

601
00:34:47,580 --> 00:34:50,980
I was pondering, like, how does. How does things

602
00:34:50,980 --> 00:34:53,580
happen between the normal world and the separate

603
00:34:53,580 --> 00:34:56,620
floor, as far as. You know, And. And so when,

604
00:34:58,170 --> 00:35:01,140
Rigabi, like, says, look, you know, whenever he's

605
00:35:01,140 --> 00:35:03,550
with the uv, like, don't, you know, don't sear out

606
00:35:03,550 --> 00:35:05,750
your eyes. Trying to like, you know, because of

607
00:35:05,750 --> 00:35:07,550
the. You know, I guess the clue was the dilated

608
00:35:07,550 --> 00:35:09,150
pupils, because I noticed, you know, because

609
00:35:09,310 --> 00:35:11,390
whenever he start. When the episode starts, he,

610
00:35:11,390 --> 00:35:14,630
like, uses his stopwatch to, like, time stuff as

611
00:35:14,630 --> 00:35:16,990
far as getting into the. Into the facility and

612
00:35:16,990 --> 00:35:19,670
stuff. So, you know, so it's cool. Bring. How they

613
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:22,980
brought all those things together. But, you know,

614
00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:27,060
but it. She was like, I perfected the procedure

615
00:35:27,140 --> 00:35:30,590
and. And. And we. We. We do. You know, it was

616
00:35:30,590 --> 00:35:32,070
really cool whenever they were seeing the

617
00:35:32,070 --> 00:35:33,710
reintegration happen, where they were like,

618
00:35:33,710 --> 00:35:37,910
cutting between both. Both. Both worlds and the

619
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:40,030
colors and all that kind of stuff too, as. As far

620
00:35:40,030 --> 00:35:42,270
as like, Audi mark wearing the red versus the. Any

621
00:35:42,270 --> 00:35:44,600
marks with the blue. And, I just thought it was

622
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:49,030
really, really effective. So, Yeah,

623
00:35:51,430 --> 00:35:56,680
>> Sarah : What I. What I found, very interesting and oddly

624
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,560
worked, which I don't think many shows can pull

625
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,760
this off, but to. To have end an episode like

626
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,960
that. And for me, I watched these back to back. So

627
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,680
to end an episode like that and then to start

628
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:15,920
episode four, Woes Hallow with Irving. Any Irving,

629
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:21,250
definitely not Audi. In the middle of an ice. An,

630
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:23,000
An iced frozen lake.

631
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:23,800
>> Will: Yep.

632
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,870
>> Sarah : Like a scene from. From a Portrait that, This

633
00:36:27,870 --> 00:36:30,870
episode was beautifully shot was how it was.

634
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:31,350
>> Will: Yeah.

635
00:36:32,230 --> 00:36:36,470
>> Sarah : It's interesting how I didn't immediately think to

636
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:41,270
myself, wait, wait, like, like reintegration?

637
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:43,630
Because I was just like, no, that's. That's any

638
00:36:43,630 --> 00:36:43,990
Mark.

639
00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:45,390
>> Will: Yeah.

640
00:36:45,390 --> 00:36:50,080
>> Sarah : And it doesn't. And. And the. The episode of Woe's

641
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:55,910
how. Because they. They set up this, team retreat

642
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:59,430
in the outset, which is another thing that Lumon

643
00:36:59,430 --> 00:37:02,519
promised them, in the first episode for them to

644
00:37:02,519 --> 00:37:04,200
return. It was another carrot.

645
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:05,240
>> Will: Yep.

646
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,200
>> Sarah : Like, I. I didn't. I didn't really even think

647
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:15,490
about the fact that that like. Well, what do like

648
00:37:15,650 --> 00:37:18,730
like has Mark reintegrated? I was just like fully

649
00:37:18,730 --> 00:37:21,490
on board with trying to understand what Woes

650
00:37:21,490 --> 00:37:26,370
Hollow was like the innies. Like, like it wasn't

651
00:37:26,370 --> 00:37:29,650
distracting is what I'm getting at. And, and I

652
00:37:29,650 --> 00:37:33,010
like how even by the end of the episode there's

653
00:37:33,010 --> 00:37:36,850
some flickers that you see where you're like oh,

654
00:37:37,420 --> 00:37:40,220
oh that's gonna come. But I was also like, okay,

655
00:37:40,220 --> 00:37:42,660
yeah, you save that till the next episode because

656
00:37:42,660 --> 00:37:47,260
we'll get there because you're. You're now

657
00:37:47,740 --> 00:37:51,250
changing some other things up. but what, what were

658
00:37:51,250 --> 00:37:54,600
your thoughts about this setup and start of Wo's

659
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:55,120
Hollow?

660
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,760
>> Will: Yeah, so the whole setup as far as Woes Hollow, it

661
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:06,950
was This episode for me was really just. Just like

662
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:09,670
I think through your first point, just to pick up

663
00:38:09,670 --> 00:38:12,070
on what you said. Love the way they started with

664
00:38:12,070 --> 00:38:16,790
Irving and you know, and on the ice and you know,

665
00:38:18,070 --> 00:38:20,790
getting its perspective of, you know, is the any

666
00:38:21,110 --> 00:38:24,700
and But also just I think it's how. How it just

667
00:38:24,780 --> 00:38:28,560
visually how it looked because I think I realized

668
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:34,320
how claustrophobic being in Lumon, the factory had

669
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,510
become watching the show. and also even, even.

670
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:42,390
Even the town itself is just like, you know, it's

671
00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:46,710
dark hues and stuff. So for them to be outside and

672
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:50,710
just to be in this expansive place, whether it's

673
00:38:50,790 --> 00:38:54,860
you know, you know, the, the. The Engan, you know,

674
00:38:54,860 --> 00:38:57,940
national forest, that's what we'll get as we learn

675
00:38:57,940 --> 00:39:01,060
what it is later. I. It was just. It was a cool

676
00:39:01,060 --> 00:39:03,140
change of pace of. I mean also, even, just even

677
00:39:03,140 --> 00:39:06,020
this little small things like you know, instead of

678
00:39:06,020 --> 00:39:08,660
cutting to the normal opening credits, they just

679
00:39:08,660 --> 00:39:10,340
had, you know, severance there on the screen in

680
00:39:10,340 --> 00:39:17,140
the sky and, and just different color grading and

681
00:39:17,140 --> 00:39:21,220
also just like the you know, all the Enies wearing

682
00:39:21,220 --> 00:39:27,840
black and, and Seth and Ms. M. Wong use it wearing

683
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,760
white and just, you know, it just really just. It

684
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,600
did so many things about. It just like really just

685
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,080
did a great job of framing the, the the the. The.

686
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,400
The. The atmospherics around the episode so that

687
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,560
when the characters were dealing with their

688
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,250
various know. Issues within the episode, it just,

689
00:39:46,250 --> 00:39:50,450
it just made the episodes pop and go so much

690
00:39:50,450 --> 00:39:54,370
deeper for me. You know, with the, with the

691
00:39:54,370 --> 00:39:57,380
changes. Change of scenery. and then all the, and

692
00:39:57,380 --> 00:39:59,340
then of course all the reveals that we get in this

693
00:39:59,340 --> 00:39:59,860
episode.

694
00:40:00,930 --> 00:40:03,430
>> Sarah : it felt like they were in a VR game.

695
00:40:05,590 --> 00:40:09,790
>> Sarah : Very much where I, I like how Dylan's like, oh, I

696
00:40:09,790 --> 00:40:13,370
knew there was sky and this I'm like. But I'm

697
00:40:13,370 --> 00:40:15,010
thinking to myself, I'm looking, I'm like, that

698
00:40:15,010 --> 00:40:20,210
looks painted. That looks like, like you, like, I,

699
00:40:20,210 --> 00:40:23,210
I can appreciate how you started. And you're like

700
00:40:23,610 --> 00:40:27,330
the, and you started to explain how the, the

701
00:40:27,330 --> 00:40:31,130
difference between that. Such a wide open space.

702
00:40:31,450 --> 00:40:34,450
Right. Which honestly, this reminds me of where

703
00:40:34,450 --> 00:40:37,570
I'm from. So I wasn't that. Oh, it wasn't that

704
00:40:37,570 --> 00:40:40,110
really. Ooh. I was like, this is another day in

705
00:40:40,110 --> 00:40:48,980
life. and, but to me, for such a large space, it

706
00:40:48,980 --> 00:40:50,580
felt very confining.

707
00:40:50,900 --> 00:40:51,620
>> Will: Oh, yeah.

708
00:40:52,660 --> 00:40:58,100
>> Sarah : And it felt very much like there was still an un,

709
00:40:58,740 --> 00:41:03,730
an untold barrier. or a constraint, if you will,

710
00:41:03,810 --> 00:41:06,990
of where, yeah, we're going to let you out here.

711
00:41:06,990 --> 00:41:10,590
But this is your box. Yeah, we're not going to

712
00:41:10,590 --> 00:41:13,960
tell you you're in a box. But you, like, we will

713
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,200
also warn you from straying away from Keir's path

714
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,390
and all of that. this is the Irving episode that,

715
00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:26,270
I brought up last week. I, I will say. And I'm

716
00:41:26,270 --> 00:41:29,430
like, I said, I, I was like, I have no idea. Just

717
00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:32,110
like little bits and pieces that I've heard. I'm

718
00:41:32,110 --> 00:41:34,030
pretty sure something big is going to happen to

719
00:41:34,030 --> 00:41:37,940
Irving, and boy does it. but I also was not

720
00:41:37,940 --> 00:41:42,900
expecting it to go the way it does with him and

721
00:41:42,900 --> 00:41:49,860
his, albeit annoyance with Helena being a imposter

722
00:41:50,739 --> 00:41:56,540
and, and his spiral into this paranoia that

723
00:41:56,540 --> 00:42:02,230
ultimately makes him attempt to kill her. Like,

724
00:42:02,230 --> 00:42:06,070
there's no doubt about that. Which, but it's a

725
00:42:06,070 --> 00:42:09,270
sacrifice. Like, it's this interesting thing where

726
00:42:10,390 --> 00:42:14,790
he and I, and he knew it. He, I, I feel like this,

727
00:42:15,390 --> 00:42:19,830
looking at both days, you can see him walking this

728
00:42:19,830 --> 00:42:24,480
path and knowing, like, if I push this, it's

729
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,080
gonna, it's gonna impact me. Like, it's, it's,

730
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,280
it's gonna be an exchange. And essentially was, it

731
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:36,210
was like, like bring heli back, flip the switch.

732
00:42:36,530 --> 00:42:39,330
Like, we don't want this Outtie. We don't know

733
00:42:39,330 --> 00:42:44,090
this Outtie. Like, get her out. And, and Seth

734
00:42:44,090 --> 00:42:48,330
does. Seth comes to it because, or, or Helena

735
00:42:48,330 --> 00:42:52,610
would have drowned to death. And, and in return,

736
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:58,550
Irving gets fired in the worst way possible. Like,

737
00:42:59,690 --> 00:43:04,090
it will be as if you, Irving, be never existed or

738
00:43:04,090 --> 00:43:08,610
drew a single breath on the earth. M. May Keir's

739
00:43:08,610 --> 00:43:11,690
mercy follow you into the eternal dark.

740
00:43:12,570 --> 00:43:13,130
>> Will: Yeah.

741
00:43:13,450 --> 00:43:24,940
>> Sarah : Which. Oh my God. Like, I, I. It's another solid

742
00:43:24,940 --> 00:43:29,380
ending because does it make me want to, like,

743
00:43:29,380 --> 00:43:33,880
okay, like, I, I, feel as though these episodes

744
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:36,480
with severance, they do a very good job with

745
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,080
satisfying You.

746
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:38,880
>> Will: Yeah.

747
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,240
>> Sarah : Where you're, you're, you are curious, but you're

748
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:47,600
not overly curious. Like, I'm not jumping to like,

749
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,440
let's go, let's go hit the next episode. No, I'm

750
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,040
like, I'm, I'm taking my time. It took me nine

751
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,980
months since the show came out to watch. I'm, I'm

752
00:43:56,980 --> 00:44:02,140
no rush. But, but at the same time, it's also just

753
00:44:02,140 --> 00:44:07,660
like. Okay, all right. Because yes, we don't know

754
00:44:07,980 --> 00:44:11,340
what this means for Irving as a character in this

755
00:44:11,340 --> 00:44:21,460
show. But at the same time, that idea of. But

756
00:44:21,460 --> 00:44:26,280
there, it's. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna summarize

757
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,600
this and let you talk and ramble and rant about

758
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,760
it. But, but just the idea that now we're

759
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,800
introduced with the idea of what does it mean for

760
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,800
an Outtie or an Innie to die.

761
00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:43,450
>> Sarah : Which Death. Which is ironic because in. With,

762
00:44:43,450 --> 00:44:47,140
with this whole scene and Seth's ending sentiment

763
00:44:47,140 --> 00:44:49,940
to Irving, it's essentially, you are no longer

764
00:44:49,940 --> 00:44:52,020
employed here, therefore you are dead.

765
00:44:53,460 --> 00:44:58,420
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean that there's this,

766
00:44:58,660 --> 00:45:01,900
There's a lot to unpack whenever that happened to

767
00:45:01,900 --> 00:45:07,060
Irving. And because, yeah, to be fired by this

768
00:45:07,060 --> 00:45:10,980
company means literally this. Yeah, I mean that

769
00:45:12,980 --> 00:45:18,610
he, Irving B. Irv B. No longer exists. And I mean,

770
00:45:18,610 --> 00:45:23,650
I'm stating the obvious, but it's, it's like, you

771
00:45:23,650 --> 00:45:26,570
know, get into that duality as far as, you know,

772
00:45:26,570 --> 00:45:28,410
the levels we talked about earlier this evening.

773
00:45:28,810 --> 00:45:31,730
if. Because, you know, we see the evolution of

774
00:45:31,730 --> 00:45:35,010
this character from season one to now. And you

775
00:45:35,010 --> 00:45:37,730
know, he went from being the company man, you

776
00:45:37,730 --> 00:45:41,570
know, he was content. Irv B. The any was content

777
00:45:41,570 --> 00:45:45,260
with, with working in his job. It was his whole

778
00:45:45,260 --> 00:45:49,100
existence. And then he meets Bert and everything

779
00:45:49,100 --> 00:45:52,660
is like, everything changes. You know, like, like,

780
00:45:52,660 --> 00:45:54,500
like what happens a lot of times in life, you

781
00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:56,900
know, an event happens, and whether you fall in

782
00:45:56,900 --> 00:46:00,860
love or any number of things, your perspective on

783
00:46:00,860 --> 00:46:04,420
things change. And so. And now, now that we have

784
00:46:04,420 --> 00:46:10,250
this with Irv and now that he. And you know, and

785
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:14,170
also like, his relationship with Dylan and his

786
00:46:14,650 --> 00:46:18,850
relationship with the true heli are who the. Any

787
00:46:18,850 --> 00:46:21,170
heli. Not Helena. You know, all those

788
00:46:21,170 --> 00:46:23,330
relationships and stuff that he has in bonds that

789
00:46:23,330 --> 00:46:27,330
he's built up over time is now. Has now ended. And

790
00:46:27,330 --> 00:46:29,370
now we've, you know, and then, you know, how the,

791
00:46:29,370 --> 00:46:33,090
you know, not only are we going to lose this

792
00:46:33,090 --> 00:46:36,370
character, but the Ennis will lose a, a member of

793
00:46:36,370 --> 00:46:39,330
their team that they have, you know, come to, you

794
00:46:39,330 --> 00:46:42,170
know, mark, you know, fault to have him come back

795
00:46:42,810 --> 00:46:46,010
so now we're you know, so now they're. As we move

796
00:46:46,010 --> 00:46:48,850
forward, you know, how's the story going? How's.

797
00:46:48,850 --> 00:46:51,930
How's the story going to be told now and how. How

798
00:46:51,930 --> 00:46:56,010
is it going to unfold as far as given that yeah

799
00:46:56,010 --> 00:47:00,890
Neb any Urban is gone but Outtie Irv definitely

800
00:47:00,890 --> 00:47:05,410
has learn some things and knows what's. Has

801
00:47:05,890 --> 00:47:10,130
understand what's going on on. You know, as far as

802
00:47:10,450 --> 00:47:12,090
you know there's no. They haven't been

803
00:47:12,090 --> 00:47:15,970
reintegrated like Mark. But Outtie Irv knows you

804
00:47:15,970 --> 00:47:17,410
know with the paintings and stuff. There's some

805
00:47:17,410 --> 00:47:21,130
stuff the things going on that has any has been

806
00:47:21,130 --> 00:47:28,870
engaged in. So you know how Irv Irving interact

807
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:32,270
with the Innies now to like given that you know,

808
00:47:32,270 --> 00:47:37,110
given that he's you know he's. He's not allowed on

809
00:47:37,110 --> 00:47:39,660
the property and stuff. So. Yeah, it's just a lot

810
00:47:39,660 --> 00:47:43,220
of levels too like where things go in these next

811
00:47:43,220 --> 00:47:44,100
six episodes.

812
00:47:45,540 --> 00:47:50,540
>> Sarah : Right right. Well it's also just like what will

813
00:47:50,540 --> 00:47:55,380
Irving be Audi reaction be to all of this because.

814
00:47:55,780 --> 00:47:58,280
Or what will he be told happened?

815
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,080
>> Will: Yeah yeah, yeah.

816
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:02,280
>> Sarah : So yeah.

817
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:03,840
>> Will: Yeah, because that's a good point. I'm glad you

818
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,360
brought that up because yeah, we you know we, we

819
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,840
have seen at least the first time because of the

820
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,480
actions of the Overtime Initiative, him being

821
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:17,240
dismissed by Seth and and so now you know, are we

822
00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:19,480
going to you know. So now yeah we're going to see

823
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,280
that again and but you know, but now the Outtie

824
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:26,680
Irving knows a lot. Probably knows probably knows

825
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,740
a little bit more than what he did that we saw a

826
00:48:30,740 --> 00:48:31,700
couple episodes back.

827
00:48:32,180 --> 00:48:36,180
>> Sarah : Yeah, well, I, I think. I think if we get anything

828
00:48:36,420 --> 00:48:39,380
for. From Irving for the rest of the season it's

829
00:48:39,380 --> 00:48:43,380
gonna be about Bert and still trying to find Bert

830
00:48:43,380 --> 00:48:46,950
in the outer world. because we, and we are shown

831
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:50,310
Bert a glimpse of him. So and he, he clearly knows

832
00:48:50,310 --> 00:49:00,610
something. so we're. We're told. basically they

833
00:49:00,850 --> 00:49:03,330
during this adventure, if you would call it like

834
00:49:03,330 --> 00:49:07,010
this, this, this ah, sleep away camp excursion,

835
00:49:07,810 --> 00:49:12,110
they they are following the guidebook and this

836
00:49:12,110 --> 00:49:18,270
ancient Kier text and I, I, we. We could sit here

837
00:49:18,270 --> 00:49:20,710
for like the next hour and probably go through all

838
00:49:20,710 --> 00:49:24,430
of the different lines. But the biggest line and

839
00:49:24,430 --> 00:49:27,900
arguably the only line that I really took away

840
00:49:27,900 --> 00:49:32,540
from the episode was the at the end of the creepy

841
00:49:32,540 --> 00:49:36,580
horror tale about the twin brothers because

842
00:49:36,580 --> 00:49:38,140
apparently Kier had a twin.

843
00:49:38,870 --> 00:49:39,270
>> Will: Yep.

844
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:47,480
>> Sarah : And cure, Keir's twin, died and And then he's told

845
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:55,510
by What did they call The. The bride, the bride's.

846
00:49:55,830 --> 00:49:57,670
>> Will: She. That's the temper woe.

847
00:49:57,910 --> 00:50:01,190
>> Sarah : Yeah, the temp. Yeah, he's told by the temper woe,

848
00:50:01,870 --> 00:50:06,670
that this is your doing. You suffered wantonness.

849
00:50:07,710 --> 00:50:15,150
Now he's no one's brother, only Chaos's. And the

850
00:50:15,150 --> 00:50:21,310
word wantonness was, was really stuck out to me

851
00:50:22,030 --> 00:50:25,750
because in what you were just talking about with

852
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:28,990
Irving and then what we were talking about with

853
00:50:28,990 --> 00:50:34,230
Dylan and Mark and Helly and Helena, there is a

854
00:50:34,230 --> 00:50:39,710
lot of want and desire for what the other, like

855
00:50:39,710 --> 00:50:41,630
Outtie or any has.

856
00:50:43,370 --> 00:50:49,640
>> Sarah : Which is driving these characters. So, so I was

857
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,240
like, oh, that's. That's a great word to describe.

858
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:59,920
What's really happening here is. Is your desire to

859
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:06,320
have that thing that unknowingly or. Well, now

860
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,400
knowingly, because Mark does know that his wife is

861
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:14,260
alive in this. On the severed floor, is exactly

862
00:51:14,260 --> 00:51:20,230
what, like, they want. And so it kind of goes back

863
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:25,030
to the previous episode where I was saying if, if

864
00:51:25,110 --> 00:51:29,760
Gretchen had said to Dylan, well, the thing that's

865
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,160
wrong with him is he can only get a job here

866
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,000
because he's severed. And there are, there's

867
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:43,160
prejudice out there against severed people. Then,

868
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,950
then it's kind of like, well, well, as an innie,

869
00:51:46,950 --> 00:51:48,590
it's like, well, I'm just gonna go back to my

870
00:51:48,590 --> 00:51:52,270
cubicle because I'm not wanted out there, I'm

871
00:51:52,270 --> 00:51:56,350
wanted here. You know, it's like, it's. It's

872
00:51:56,350 --> 00:52:00,909
suddenly like, oh, so, so the Audi world, the

873
00:52:00,909 --> 00:52:05,030
Audis, I, I don't belong there, clearly, because

874
00:52:05,590 --> 00:52:08,310
I'm getting my butt kicked out there. And yeah, I

875
00:52:08,310 --> 00:52:11,760
have a family, but apparently that's not enough.

876
00:52:12,240 --> 00:52:17,680
So, so I'm, I'm living my best, best life. So I, I

877
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:22,320
just, I think that's really a good summarization

878
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:27,160
and I like how it's just one line in a very dense

879
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,640
episode, but at this rate, I'm gonna say we can't

880
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:32,360
use that term anymore when we're talking about

881
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,640
severance, because every episode they're all nuts.

882
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:37,200
>> Will: Yeah, agreed.

883
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,680
>> Sarah : But what, what was your takeaway from all of this,

884
00:52:42,170 --> 00:52:45,850
twisted mythology that we learn about cure during

885
00:52:45,850 --> 00:52:47,280
this, group retreat?

886
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,960
>> Will: Yeah, so I think it just, you know, I think it

887
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,840
really can take it really, between several. A

888
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:58,350
couple things. One, with all the, with all the,

889
00:52:58,830 --> 00:53:03,400
the Ennis meeting their doppelgangers, as

890
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,040
throughout the episode. And then we learned that

891
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:11,860
Kir had had a brother. and it just, you know, and

892
00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:14,420
it go back. Goes back to, to what I was sharing at

893
00:53:14,420 --> 00:53:16,300
the Beginning as far as. Just like the. The

894
00:53:16,300 --> 00:53:18,820
framing of this with the colors like the black v.

895
00:53:18,820 --> 00:53:22,500
White. The. As far as the. You know, the. And he's

896
00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:28,980
wearing that and. And Milchick wearing the white.

897
00:53:28,980 --> 00:53:34,850
And. And. And really just the whole duality of the

898
00:53:34,850 --> 00:53:37,490
any versus Outtie, it just sort of like you know,

899
00:53:37,490 --> 00:53:39,250
it just looks like kind of like the rule of two

900
00:53:39,250 --> 00:53:44,830
with the. With these folks, where that all of

901
00:53:44,830 --> 00:53:48,230
this. All of this Lumon mythology and. And and

902
00:53:50,070 --> 00:53:53,990
was. Was you know, was basically like set up.

903
00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:56,980
because you know, from you know, basically this

904
00:53:56,980 --> 00:54:00,360
fourth book was like hidden because of. Of the

905
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:05,020
shame that Kier had for his brother Dieter because

906
00:54:05,020 --> 00:54:08,620
he was like, you know, jerking off and spoiled

907
00:54:08,620 --> 00:54:14,580
his. You know, his legacy out on the. In. In the

908
00:54:14,580 --> 00:54:17,540
woods there. It's like. It's like he you know,

909
00:54:17,540 --> 00:54:21,340
it's like he's disgusted by. By this. By his

910
00:54:21,340 --> 00:54:23,980
brother and he's trying to like correct all these

911
00:54:23,980 --> 00:54:26,100
things. And it kind of also reminds me of like

912
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,440
whenever he saw Helena earlier when his. You know,

913
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,840
as far as the. The legacy family members reaction

914
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:39,830
to when You know, when dad saw Helena after the.

915
00:54:39,830 --> 00:54:44,830
The big. You know, after the overtime issue where

916
00:54:44,830 --> 00:54:47,430
it's just. You know there is. There is a way of

917
00:54:47,430 --> 00:54:50,390
things and the cure way is the way to do it,

918
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:53,380
whereas Dieter is like the. The. The. The. The.

919
00:54:53,380 --> 00:54:59,300
The impure. The improper way. And so. So I felt

920
00:54:59,300 --> 00:55:02,550
there was that I think you know, some of the

921
00:55:02,950 --> 00:55:06,150
larger things that we were dealing with with these

922
00:55:06,150 --> 00:55:08,590
characters too with the Enies versus the Audis is

923
00:55:08,590 --> 00:55:11,910
the whole body autonomy issues. Especially like

924
00:55:12,230 --> 00:55:15,880
you know, given what we learn, you know, where.

925
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:20,290
Where our suspicions were confirmed about Heli

926
00:55:20,290 --> 00:55:23,970
and. And Helena being that Helena was you know, in

927
00:55:24,050 --> 00:55:27,690
you know, basically been. We. We basically from

928
00:55:27,690 --> 00:55:30,170
the night of the overtime incident to this moment,

929
00:55:30,170 --> 00:55:32,290
you know, we. We've been. We've been dealing with

930
00:55:32,450 --> 00:55:38,940
Helena and You know, and. And how you know, we saw

931
00:55:38,940 --> 00:55:41,620
her like taking you know, taking an interest in

932
00:55:41,620 --> 00:55:44,150
you know, she all she you know. Yeah. I think you

933
00:55:44,150 --> 00:55:46,630
mentioned this like maybe last with last week when

934
00:55:46,630 --> 00:55:49,920
we were discussing her like looking at the videos

935
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,720
of Mark and stuff and her trying to you know,

936
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:55,760
fill. Fill that relationship void and you know

937
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,680
that. That you know, she's. She's interested in

938
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:05,550
Mark, and also you know Interested in helping him

939
00:56:06,430 --> 00:56:11,530
and for you know, for both the any and Audi as far

940
00:56:11,530 --> 00:56:16,010
as you know. I think the any for. For Heli are you

941
00:56:16,010 --> 00:56:19,890
know, I think Helena's like jealous that Heli her

942
00:56:19,890 --> 00:56:22,650
any has this relationship with Mark and, And you

943
00:56:22,650 --> 00:56:25,040
know, so whenever she, like, whenever had, when

944
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,400
they had sex there in the tent, I mean, I think

945
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,120
she was just like taking advantage of the

946
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,360
situation. So, you know, so gets into the ethical

947
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,890
questions as far as body autonomy here and, and

948
00:56:34,890 --> 00:56:37,210
for all these. For all the Innies and the Audis,

949
00:56:37,210 --> 00:56:40,250
as far as who's. Who's really in control here. So

950
00:56:40,250 --> 00:56:40,890
there's just.

951
00:56:41,210 --> 00:56:45,800
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. a few things about what you just said,

952
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:51,480
because one thing that I keep wanting to raise and

953
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,840
it's not really something I want to discuss, but

954
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:55,720
more just like something I want to throw out

955
00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:59,490
there, that continues to go through my mind

956
00:57:00,370 --> 00:57:05,850
whenever we talk about Helena. And it's. It's this

957
00:57:05,850 --> 00:57:11,390
idea. Does she know what happened to Ms. Casey? M.

958
00:57:11,570 --> 00:57:14,890
Because that's the thing that's. That's haunting

959
00:57:14,890 --> 00:57:19,410
me. Like Helena, so far it's been very clear her

960
00:57:19,810 --> 00:57:24,290
what. What her angle is in over these last, four

961
00:57:24,290 --> 00:57:28,260
season two. But that's the thing where I'm just

962
00:57:28,260 --> 00:57:32,980
like, is that something she doesn't know? Like,

963
00:57:33,300 --> 00:57:37,220
because she's now been an imposter for a little

964
00:57:37,220 --> 00:57:41,700
bit here and she's given no sign that she really

965
00:57:41,860 --> 00:57:47,860
knows A, who Ms. Casey is, and B, also has made

966
00:57:47,860 --> 00:57:51,880
the connection that Ms. Casey is Mark's wife in

967
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:56,360
the outer world who is dead. So they. At least

968
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,720
from what they've shown us, there's been no sign

969
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:02,400
for me or context clue that she does know, which

970
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:06,320
would make her even more villainous in my opinion.

971
00:58:08,340 --> 00:58:12,260
so maybe that's why it's best to keep her not

972
00:58:12,500 --> 00:58:16,580
knowing and then to explain why she doesn't know

973
00:58:17,090 --> 00:58:23,970
later on in the show. but. But yeah, the. I don't

974
00:58:23,970 --> 00:58:27,650
know if it's the autonomy. Like, yes, they had sex

975
00:58:27,650 --> 00:58:31,250
and whose body is this? I. I just think what

976
00:58:31,250 --> 00:58:33,770
they're doing is something that we've talked about

977
00:58:33,930 --> 00:58:37,170
since the first episode this season. It's. It's

978
00:58:37,170 --> 00:58:41,210
the creating of. Not a triangle, but more like a

979
00:58:41,210 --> 00:58:47,270
pentagon, more like a. A six. Because yes, we see

980
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:51,260
the physicalness, escalate between Mark S. And

981
00:58:51,260 --> 00:58:57,780
Heli or Helena in this instance. But we also saw

982
00:58:57,780 --> 00:59:02,099
in the previous episode an interaction between.

983
00:59:02,500 --> 00:59:05,060
That felt very much like a first date between

984
00:59:05,220 --> 00:59:12,260
Gretchen, who's the wife of. Of Dylan, but she's

985
00:59:12,260 --> 00:59:15,420
meeting the innie. Dylan for the first time. So

986
00:59:15,420 --> 00:59:19,600
it's. It's like, whoa, who are you married to?

987
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:24,800
Where. What is the confines of adultery here?

988
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:26,000
>> Will: Yeah.

989
00:59:27,210 --> 00:59:32,610
>> Sarah : and then on top of now, because we already talked

990
00:59:32,610 --> 00:59:37,410
about how. How Irving pushed it and and, and we

991
00:59:37,410 --> 00:59:40,530
know at the end of this episode Heliar is back and

992
00:59:40,530 --> 00:59:42,090
Helena is gone.

993
00:59:42,940 --> 00:59:43,180
>> Will: So.

994
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:48,480
>> Sarah : But we also know that within like the next 10

995
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:55,920
minutes mark s is gonna be switched again. So who

996
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,480
knows what that means in terms of this. This very

997
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:06,320
much. It's very clever. And this is coming from a

998
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:15,830
shipper to, to be able to take a, a, a pair who

999
01:00:15,830 --> 01:00:21,660
have chemistry and and it not to be tiresome and

1000
01:00:21,660 --> 01:00:24,100
just be like get Siska together. Because

1001
01:00:24,100 --> 01:00:27,540
technically it's not a pair, it's two pairs. And

1002
01:00:27,540 --> 01:00:30,580
now we're seeing, and this season we're seeing all

1003
01:00:30,580 --> 01:00:33,950
the different ways they compare. And I'm not

1004
01:00:33,950 --> 01:00:40,110
talking about, I'm just talking about interaction

1005
01:00:40,110 --> 01:00:40,590
wise.

1006
01:00:41,150 --> 01:00:41,590
>> Will: Yeah.

1007
01:00:41,590 --> 01:00:45,590
>> Sarah : Because we, we've now seen Helena interact with

1008
01:00:45,590 --> 01:00:50,580
Mark S. Any Mark S. Wait until we see Helena

1009
01:00:50,530 --> 01:00:53,530
interact with Outtie Marquez. We have yet to see

1010
01:00:53,530 --> 01:00:53,890
that.

1011
01:00:54,530 --> 01:00:57,650
>> Will: Well you know, but they did have now. But we did

1012
01:00:57,650 --> 01:00:59,850
see that the integrate the reintegration did work

1013
01:00:59,850 --> 01:01:04,600
because when they were in the tent Outtie Mark was

1014
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,120
there for like a moment.

1015
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:12,070
>> Sarah : A moment. But I don't think he was there when Heli

1016
01:01:12,070 --> 01:01:12,630
woke up.

1017
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:16,510
>> Will: No, he, Whatever. Right. He wasn't. No, not yet.

1018
01:01:16,510 --> 01:01:19,030
>> Sarah : Yeah, I think, I think it was a flash but it,

1019
01:01:19,750 --> 01:01:24,990
yeah, yeah. I don't think we fully have had. I

1020
01:01:24,990 --> 01:01:27,400
don't think we've, I don't think that counts

1021
01:01:27,790 --> 01:01:32,270
towards Helena and Mark S interacting and by

1022
01:01:32,270 --> 01:01:35,390
Marcus, I mean Outtie Marquez interacting with

1023
01:01:35,390 --> 01:01:39,550
Helena. I, I, I think there was a flicker and

1024
01:01:39,790 --> 01:01:42,590
remember it didn't instantly work either.

1025
01:01:42,590 --> 01:01:43,710
>> Will: No, no.

1026
01:01:43,790 --> 01:01:48,850
>> Sarah : But so, so I took it more as like okay, okay, that

1027
01:01:48,850 --> 01:01:51,650
that'll be coming. But the very moment we get

1028
01:01:51,650 --> 01:01:57,010
Heliar back, then suddenly the next day or so or,

1029
01:01:57,010 --> 01:02:00,450
or really based on timeline should be within an

1030
01:02:00,450 --> 01:02:03,510
hour. But five minutes, it shouldn't take that

1031
01:02:03,670 --> 01:02:07,430
long for, for Mark S to be reintegrated. But also,

1032
01:02:08,950 --> 01:02:13,550
and this ties back to Irving. Technically we don't

1033
01:02:13,550 --> 01:02:16,310
know what it means for an innie to be in

1034
01:02:16,310 --> 01:02:17,190
reintegrated.

1035
01:02:18,950 --> 01:02:20,420
>> Will: Right. We don't.

1036
01:02:20,580 --> 01:02:22,940
>> Sarah : Like what does that, what, what does that mean for

1037
01:02:22,940 --> 01:02:26,940
the any does is that mean the same exact thing for

1038
01:02:26,940 --> 01:02:30,060
the Outtie of where like yeah, you go through the

1039
01:02:30,060 --> 01:02:33,820
machine but, but you're still the same. And, and

1040
01:02:33,820 --> 01:02:38,500
also does that m. This is a better question. Does

1041
01:02:38,500 --> 01:02:40,420
that create a whole new character?

1042
01:02:42,420 --> 01:02:44,540
>> Will: Yeah, it does. Well, I mean I guess it's a

1043
01:02:44,540 --> 01:02:48,110
blending. Yeah, I mean right. Yeah. because it's

1044
01:02:48,110 --> 01:02:52,710
the bl. Yeah, because yeah, yeah, yeah.

1045
01:02:53,750 --> 01:02:57,120
>> Sarah : It's like, it's like well yeah, technically it

1046
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,280
would because then you've. You're. You're suddenly

1047
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:02,400
enforced. I don't know.

1048
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,480
>> Will: You are. Yeah, I mean, I get. Yeah. Because we've

1049
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,080
integrated the two distinct personalities into a

1050
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:12,110
new fully. Yeah. Full third person.

1051
01:03:12,990 --> 01:03:17,790
>> Sarah : I. Yeah, man. Ah, yeah. So. So again, it's a

1052
01:03:17,790 --> 01:03:20,590
pentagon. They've managed to create pentagons, not

1053
01:03:20,590 --> 01:03:24,030
love triangles. They've managed to create three

1054
01:03:24,030 --> 01:03:28,510
dimensional spheres of just love and affection and

1055
01:03:28,590 --> 01:03:38,760
wantedness. And boy, oh boy, it Yeah, they. It's

1056
01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:43,710
it's. It's good that I feel like this show can

1057
01:03:43,710 --> 01:03:49,950
allow me to. To not spiral theory, like theory

1058
01:03:50,030 --> 01:03:53,310
spiral, but just throw out things and be like,

1059
01:03:53,980 --> 01:04:00,420
Well we'll see. We'll get there eventually. But.

1060
01:04:00,420 --> 01:04:02,500
But because the moment you really start thinking

1061
01:04:02,500 --> 01:04:04,400
about is like that makes my head hurt. when

1062
01:04:04,710 --> 01:04:07,030
they'll. If that happens, they'll let me know.

1063
01:04:07,670 --> 01:04:10,150
>> Will: Yeah, yeah. I mean they, they answer some things,

1064
01:04:10,150 --> 01:04:12,600
you know, they. Yeah, yeah, they, you know, we,

1065
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:15,840
we, you know, we, we underst. We. We know that

1066
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:18,880
there is a, you know, there's that whole glass cop

1067
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,520
Glasgow protocol. So we, you know, they, they.

1068
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:24,160
They built in some. They do have some fail safes

1069
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:26,120
built into the system as far as like how to get

1070
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:29,290
the any back. but then it like opens up other

1071
01:04:29,290 --> 01:04:31,210
questions. Like. So is, you know, to your point

1072
01:04:31,210 --> 01:04:34,410
about this being a VR wall. I mean, you know, is

1073
01:04:34,410 --> 01:04:37,370
this another floor on the. You know, is this the

1074
01:04:37,370 --> 01:04:40,410
floor before below the severed floor or they

1075
01:04:40,410 --> 01:04:42,970
really truly outdoors? Because I know we didn't

1076
01:04:42,970 --> 01:04:46,750
talk about, Cobel, as far as episode three, but

1077
01:04:46,990 --> 01:04:49,310
you know, whenever, you know, you know, she was.

1078
01:04:49,390 --> 01:04:52,590
She, you know, she. She was driving to you know,

1079
01:04:52,590 --> 01:04:55,620
to. To assault assault neck. And you know, I was

1080
01:04:55,620 --> 01:04:57,740
thinking now maybe a salt neck. The place where,

1081
01:04:57,900 --> 01:05:00,740
where they, where they had taken the Audis to

1082
01:05:00,740 --> 01:05:03,820
like, you know, through this big park, you know.

1083
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,400
or is it, you know, or, or is. Or is this. This

1084
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,560
place like the whole export floor, you know, where

1085
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:13,880
they were talking. Where Urban and Felicia were

1086
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:15,760
talking about. So I mean, there's just so many,

1087
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:18,520
you know, like you say you can just hold.

1088
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:21,040
>> Sarah : Different floor. Because we saw Goat World.

1089
01:05:21,850 --> 01:05:25,530
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah, we saw Goat World go from one, you

1090
01:05:25,530 --> 01:05:27,890
know, one goat now to a whole. To a whole floor

1091
01:05:27,890 --> 01:05:31,010
with these other. These other people who, who

1092
01:05:31,010 --> 01:05:32,030
aren't. I take.

1093
01:05:32,030 --> 01:05:35,390
>> Will: It. They're not severed. you know.

1094
01:05:35,390 --> 01:05:36,670
>> Sarah : No, there's something else.

1095
01:05:37,070 --> 01:05:39,390
>> Will: Yeah, there's something else that's good for.

1096
01:05:40,830 --> 01:05:43,750
>> Sarah : They're definitely something else, that's for

1097
01:05:43,750 --> 01:05:46,240
sure. Who has Pouches, apparently. Yeah.

1098
01:05:46,990 --> 01:05:48,870
>> Will: but, yeah, they have pouches or something. But I

1099
01:05:48,870 --> 01:05:51,070
just, But I will say with the fourth episode when

1100
01:05:51,150 --> 01:05:53,590
Irving whenever he. And you know, with the cruel.

1101
01:05:53,590 --> 01:05:58,340
I love the way, just to like, just attack. Touch

1102
01:05:58,340 --> 01:05:59,900
on that a little bit because I just. I just

1103
01:05:59,980 --> 01:06:02,459
really, really enjoyed the way that Irving figured

1104
01:06:02,459 --> 01:06:04,980
it, you know, put, you know, put the pieces

1105
01:06:04,980 --> 01:06:09,340
together and you know, with the cruelty and you

1106
01:06:09,340 --> 01:06:11,260
know, now they're sharing about the bonds and the

1107
01:06:11,260 --> 01:06:13,490
relationships with the people. Earlier, with this

1108
01:06:13,490 --> 01:06:15,890
episode, he real. You know, he realized the

1109
01:06:15,890 --> 01:06:19,370
cruelty of Helena as far as. And, and, and, and.

1110
01:06:19,370 --> 01:06:21,450
And hats off. You know, we were talking. You were

1111
01:06:21,450 --> 01:06:24,800
talking about acting as far as Jel. with his

1112
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:29,380
facial, Brit L. Lore. Whenever she, Whenever they

1113
01:06:29,380 --> 01:06:33,840
were having the discussion about the the night

1114
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,920
gardener and stuff. And yeah, and just the face,

1115
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:38,720
the facial change and that was. I pointed the

1116
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:41,370
screen. I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes, we were

1117
01:06:41,370 --> 01:06:44,250
right. Yeah, it was nice to get that confirmation,

1118
01:06:44,250 --> 01:06:46,530
but it was just, just, you know, we talk about

1119
01:06:46,530 --> 01:06:49,250
facial acting a lot of times. You're on the

1120
01:06:49,250 --> 01:06:51,810
podcast and it was just nice to just, just again,

1121
01:06:51,890 --> 01:06:54,330
to my point, as I was giving the overall thoughts

1122
01:06:54,330 --> 01:06:58,090
of this episode, it's just so many levels of, you

1123
01:06:58,090 --> 01:07:00,890
know, acting, production design as far as like the

1124
01:07:00,890 --> 01:07:03,650
colors of the tents and you know, just everything

1125
01:07:03,650 --> 01:07:06,439
about it. It was just like true master class in

1126
01:07:06,439 --> 01:07:06,959
television.

1127
01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:12,199
>> Sarah : Right. Right. See, I didn't, I didn't say like. I

1128
01:07:12,199 --> 01:07:15,439
didn't think we're right. We're right because I,

1129
01:07:15,839 --> 01:07:18,999
I've already decided going into these two episodes

1130
01:07:18,999 --> 01:07:23,759
that that's Helena. I was thinking to myself, man,

1131
01:07:23,759 --> 01:07:28,919
you are the worst actor. You're really not this at

1132
01:07:28,919 --> 01:07:33,350
all. But, but you are right. Brit Lauer does not

1133
01:07:33,350 --> 01:07:37,810
get enough credit, for, for her scenes, and her

1134
01:07:38,050 --> 01:07:43,030
performance, because she. Out of everyone there,

1135
01:07:43,110 --> 01:07:48,550
There are very distinctness. But maybe that's not

1136
01:07:48,550 --> 01:07:51,990
right because I still stand by what I said. I

1137
01:07:51,990 --> 01:07:54,710
don't think they're distinct personalities. I

1138
01:07:54,710 --> 01:07:59,639
really don't. I really think it's more about that

1139
01:07:59,639 --> 01:08:08,030
wantedness and just the idea that, that it's. It's

1140
01:08:09,070 --> 01:08:12,270
their, Their majority. But because their

1141
01:08:12,349 --> 01:08:17,470
experience is different in the world that they.

1142
01:08:17,870 --> 01:08:22,940
Their world view is different. those are the

1143
01:08:22,940 --> 01:08:26,660
nuances that define. Distinguish the any from the

1144
01:08:26,660 --> 01:08:31,891
Outtie. and I think that's been more clarified as

1145
01:08:31,891 --> 01:08:36,051
we continue on in this season specifically. So,

1146
01:08:36,231 --> 01:08:39,701
yeah, I'm glad I told you this yesterday. I'm so

1147
01:08:39,701 --> 01:08:42,020
glad we got to watch these two episodes back to

1148
01:08:42,020 --> 01:08:47,101
back because this. It's a perfect way to set us up

1149
01:08:47,101 --> 01:08:50,701
for the reintegration arc.

1150
01:08:51,261 --> 01:08:51,901
>> Will: Yep.

1151
01:08:53,341 --> 01:08:56,581
>> Sarah : And if you think about it, not only is it Mark

1152
01:08:56,581 --> 01:08:59,701
reintegrated, but in a way, Heliar is, like,

1153
01:09:00,341 --> 01:09:02,621
really being reintegrated because this is her

1154
01:09:02,621 --> 01:09:03,861
first day back to work.

1155
01:09:04,421 --> 01:09:10,581
>> Will: Yep. Yeah, whatever. That means. Waking up frozen.

1156
01:09:10,981 --> 01:09:14,701
Freezing cold. Like, why. You know, you know, why

1157
01:09:14,701 --> 01:09:17,941
am I cold? Why am I wet? And. And why is Irving

1158
01:09:17,941 --> 01:09:18,341
dead?

1159
01:09:19,541 --> 01:09:24,171
>> Sarah : Well, but we don't even know what they see when.

1160
01:09:24,731 --> 01:09:27,101
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there. There's a. There's a lot.

1161
01:09:27,101 --> 01:09:33,461
Because Irving's not. But anyway, we. We have. We

1162
01:09:33,461 --> 01:09:36,431
are. We are nearing the halfway point. and we will

1163
01:09:36,431 --> 01:09:41,801
get there as the writers and directors, give us

1164
01:09:41,801 --> 01:09:44,441
continue to feed us answers to these questions.

1165
01:09:44,441 --> 01:09:46,441
And on that note, Will, why don't you tell our

1166
01:09:46,441 --> 01:09:47,921
listeners where they can find you?

1167
01:09:48,761 --> 01:09:50,941
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on all the socials at,

1168
01:09:50,931 --> 01:09:54,831
willmpolk. W I, L, L, M M, P O L K. And you can.

1169
01:09:54,831 --> 01:09:57,471
>> Sarah : Find me there, too, at S.J. belmont. S.J. b E L M

1170
01:09:57,471 --> 01:10:00,271
O N T. Please follow our crew on X, formerly known

1171
01:10:00,271 --> 01:10:03,261
as Twitter, at Scene and Nerd. on bluesky. Friend

1172
01:10:03,261 --> 01:10:05,781
us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads

1173
01:10:05,781 --> 01:10:09,101
scene, underscore n, underscore nerd, and visit

1174
01:10:09,101 --> 01:10:12,661
our website, www.scenenerdpodcast.com. but most

1175
01:10:12,661 --> 01:10:15,041
importantly, right, follow and comment on Apple

1176
01:10:15,041 --> 01:10:17,201
Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get

1177
01:10:17,201 --> 01:10:18,921
your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're

1178
01:10:18,921 --> 01:10:19,321
welcome.