Why John WALKED AWAY From Being a Green Lantern

0:00 >> Will: How betrayed everything to keep this ring, his code, the oath, even himself. And it broke him. Proud. He doesn't even remember why he wanted the damn thing. And neither do I.

0:45 >> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is student Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is our mystery producer, Will Will Polk Carry. Doing tonight, Will. >> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. Looking forward to speaking with you tonight. About episode five of Lanterns. I mean, we're already past the halfway point now. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, past the halfway point. We are talking. Lantern Season 1, Episode 5 Lights Out. As the Macon family's history unravels, Rushville mobilizes in the face of the escalating threat. As John is placed in an impossible position. Hal risk everything in a final attempt to take down the Manhunter. But this episode begins with a. A new year in the past 2007 Rushville. And it is actually a flashback of Ms. Carrie Kane and how she enters finds herself in Rushville and meets Zoe. And it's just a cold, open for us to understand not only a little bit more about Carrie, but also just why the town of Rushville is. Is under Zoe's thumb.

1:52 and, and how she acquires that loyalty and, and. And it. And like I said, it also gives us more information about the very shady backstory regarding the town sheriff who was on the run because her father did something to go against a crime family. I mean, she's from Gotham, so of course, and she's a cane. So what. What did you think about this, Col? I don't know. A little bit about what you thought on Carrie's role in this episode. >> Will: Yeah, well, with this cold open, I think it was we. Again, this show does a great job of using timelines and jumping around timelines to set things up for our characters in either in 2016 and then of course 2026. As far as the first episode, which we haven't gone back to since the first episode. But yeah, I mean, you know, with respect to Carrie, it was one of those things we knew she was from got and there are some theories spiraling as far as the name Kane. Is she related to the Bruce's cousin because of the Cain family and the connection there. And we still didn't get a firm answer to that question. But we do know that her father is engaged in organized crime. And I didn't get a chance to like, dig into some of the backstory of some other of Kane's and in the comic lore, but. But I do remember there, I think in the Batwoman TV show in The Arrowverse, there was some situations where the Daddy Kane had some issues

3:24 with some very. Elements that were very problematic. So I think they. I think in this episode, in this show, getting back to Lanterns, we get some understanding of as far as that. And then of course we really do do get the reveal there that, that he is indeed the Manhunter. And, and then it really gets into the whole issue of okay, I will save you, but. And I'll help you out, but you got to do something for me in return. So it gets into this Faustian bargain that she establishes with. With Carrie and ah. In order to protect both. Both Zoe as. As well as the town. And I guess it was early on in the process. So we. Whatever her relationship with Macon is unclear at that point. I assume that they're married and you know, I guess she's treated him for cancer and all that as well. But yeah, you know, but again, I think it just did a good job of just really deepening the. The, the lore as far as with this, this show in this universe.

4:17 >> Sarah : So with this cold open, we're led to believe that Carrie's loyalty comes from this moment and because leading up to this episode, Carrie has played on both sides. Yeah, she, she has not been outright loyal to Macon. This is on Macon, not Zoe. And she has also been helpful and, and, and very much like I will share only so much and, and some of the decisions, quote unquote decisions that she makes and plays for Team Hal and Team John, are actually at. With aligned with what Zoe wants. Like Zoe. Zoe wants her to guide them to Hammond and all that stuff.

5:09 But there's a scene in this episode where Hal confronts Carrie. And it's interesting because what do you make of the line I owe her. What, what does she, what does Carrie owe to Zoe? >> Will: Yeah, so I think there are a couple things that she owe, that may. That she may owe her. >> Sarah : Well, okay, then let me rephrase the question. What is her reference to regarding the miracle is Noah? Yeah, yeah, that. That seems like the most logical thing to me because of the. There. There's a very important scene in this episode between Zoe and Noah. There's like the first thing. And I keep going back to this ironically that is said between Carrie and John is how's. How's your son doing?

6:01 And which. Which is just fascinating. And, and you know what? We. We have a loose relationship with IMDb at this point, but it does say the young Noah Macon. So we will be seeing the older Noah Macon. And because we still don't really know now that opens up other pantheon. But I, I, I like that subtleness just because it makes more sense to. Why her ambivalence to the whole thing. Like she received a miracle that she also knows things are not right there, there's an uneasiness and there's a reason why she has this. Like she's willing to help Hal only so, so much that, and she, she clearly wants to screw him.

6:49 >> Will: But, But I don't think you're way off there. >> Sarah : No, no, I, I think there's sexual tension between them and I, I mean, I find it hard for, to believe that someone of Kyle Chandler's age bracket would not. I find that hard to believe. Okay. Okay. So, but yeah, I, I really appreciate that. And, and it parallels what we see occur with John in this episode and Zoe's impact and impact interference savior, whatever you want to call it. But do you want to talk about John and what happens to him in this episode? >> Will: Yeah. One more point too. With the, with the Noah of it all before we move on to John. There was also.

7:30 Whenever Zoe had that last moment with John with. Excuse me, with Noah. she also said don't forget everything I taught you. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, exactly. Thank you for bringing that up. I forgot about that. But no, that is the line that I wrote down. I. It's going to play into. Because she created him. That's our theory. That's our working theory. >> Will: Yeah. because, yeah. And the reason why I brought that up because whenever, just to, just to touch a little bit on Anton and Macon later in the, in the episode, whenever they had that interrogation with between Anton and Macon, one of the things that Anton noted that in order to get to someone, you gotta have quite this, you know, sexual relations with them. And then, and, but they, but Anton and the Manhunter couldn't conceive. So the miracle is. Even though I don't, you know, even though I think Carrie. The miracle is Noah as far as either, you know, having, having a grandson and stuff. Maybe Carrie couldn't one of her other issues may of those also maybe she wanted children, but she couldn't conceive. And, and maybe that was, you know, now that we know the Manhunter has these abilities. Like for example, she cloned a, a pink pinky to replace the one that Carrie chopped off to, you know, satisfy the goon for Gotham and, And of course move as we turn to John what the things that she did for him. So maybe that's the other thing that why Carrie feels, feels obligated. Is because one, Zoe gets the grandchild and then Carrie gets a wish of having, a child. And, well, they both have the shared wish of maybe having family or whatever. So

9:02 that. That's why I just wanted to bring that up. >> Sarah : No, no, I. I think it's very important that moment to go into, like, Noah's role in the remaining three episodes, which will. I think we'll at some point see older and that'll be important. But Zoe. Oh, go ahead. >> Will: Yeah. Or the wild thing is, you know, maybe. Maybe Noah's another Manhunter. >> Sarah : But see, see, that's. That. That's why. I don't think that's a wild thought. I think that there is something to be said about if she created him. How much is human? How much is artificial? I mean, Manhunters themselves are the closest thing you're going to get to. To. To be able to clone. I forget the exact word, but you know what I'm talking about. It's a quote said earlier in the season. So it just makes you think. I mean, we'll get to John in a moment, but because you've brought up. So. So we have two different things going on, or, Of course, as usual, we have more than two different things, but just for compartmentalization's sake, I'm going to say we have two different things going on because we have this. This through line with John.

10:11 And then we also have Hal's plan, which is to convince, as you've brought up, that. Convince Anton that William Macon is actually the Manhunter, and which the Makins and Zoe already know that that's what he'll do. So they have already figured it out. There's a scene in the episode where Macon calls Zoe and they say thank you and pretty much goodbye. You're gonna die in about 10 minutes. And that does happen. It's. Do you think that Hal really thought it would work? >> Will: I think he did. I mean, he's at that point where he's just so. You know, he always has. He always says, I have something. I have a filling in my gut. So in his gut, he thought that to work?

10:58 >> Sarah : Yeah. I don't know. M. I mean, he did initially, but I don't think. I think the more it went on, there were a lot of lines like, well, if. If this happens, like, I think Carrie says it to him, like. Like, if this goes the other way, then all of the consequences will be on you. And they have a lot like. Like, linger on him. And then later there's a similar line. I Forget who says it where. It's kind of like a. Just reminder. This is all on you, because you chose the hard way. so I. And I feel like in those moments, that gut feeling was getting quieter and quieter and quieter because he also. Only. I don't know if he necessarily brought that up at the beginning when he was hitchhiked, talking about this plan. Like.

11:49 And I think that was our sign that this isn't going to go his way. Like, because when he does listen to his gut, it is, as time has proven over the last five episodes. Like, he. He is right. But I don't think it was his gut. I think it was his mind, and I think he was trying to play chess. >> Will: Yeah, to your point, I think you're right. I mean, I think you're right. He. Over once the attack began and he was walking through the street and seeing the ramifications of when the Manhunter turned on the machines and started attacking Rushville. Yeah, you're. I think, to your point, I think that's when you realize, like, oh, I really screwed up here because.

12:29 >> Sarah : And. And. And I think, like, I. It was. I screwed up and this wasn't the best option I could have played. And. And I think it goes all the way back to the car accident, quote, unquote, that then escalates to John being burned alive. Okay, that was a bit evil. That was. Yeah, just a bit. And. And so correct me if I'm wrong. So basically, how in the whole car accident of all, his motive was. He says to remove John from the board, but he doesn't kill him. Like, John could have survived that. I think Zoe basically did the. Did the let me burn you alive part. So.

13:15 >> Will: Well, and I think was. >> Sarah : Was it bait? Was Hal leaving John there in that predicament just so that Zoe would intervene, show, or expose herself? >> Will: I think so. Yeah. I do think that's the case. And then Zoe, where she could have saved John, she's already again going back to Anton and just talking about how they use sex to take down the Alpha. >> Sarah : He. I'm sorry, I just have to point this out. I am the one not bringing up this line. Will has referenced it at least three times. So everyone, continue. Your counter. Your counter about this reference. People are not letting. >> Will: Hey, it's part of plot. Yeah, but. Yeah, but again, that was. That was the. Again, that was her way. The. Her way of like. Well, she. Yeah, she already had some bargaining power over John anyway because of just.

14:11 >> Sarah : There was savior mode. Like. Like you. I. I know where you're going with it. But before we go into that, that conversation that they have with him on the operating table, I want to go back to something that John says where I think he's talking to his parents and he's giving them the Cliff Notes of the shitstorm day that he has. And along the way he mentions, I don't know if Hal wanted me to live or die in that moment. And I love that unans censored thing. And what convinces me even more that Hal did that whole setup for bait because it parallels what Jon ends up doing with Hal at the end of the episode. And so, again, these characters who, you're led to believe are very, very different, they have clearly learned from each other.

15:14 Amoy. >> Will: They're not. >> Sarah : They're. They're more alike. They also understand, have. Have grown to understand each other more than. Than they thought they could have. So it's. The decision making is, Is very much parallel between the two. But we'll get into that third act of it all. But before we do, there's a very important conversation that occurs between Zoe and John as she has made this deal to skin graft, regenerate skin. And I mean, part of me just believes it was an excuse to basically just continue to watch Jean Pierre in his underwear for like a, good five minutes. But I, I ain't mad at that. I'm just saying I was like. There are some scenes where I'm like, he's basically nude right now. Basically nude. Okay, it's a lot. But also what stuck out to me the most about this scene was. And just an overall thought about this episode and this season as a whole. I just love how we continue to be right. And I say that because way back when Laura Linnie showed up, and I know her character's name now is Liana, but that's basically Laura and Lenny combined. I was not wrong. But we, we made a point to discuss the fact, like the subtleness of the conversation at the time about in the third episode. Why. I mean, I know why they cast Laura Linnie. That's not the

16:47 question. But we're led to believe, like the Guardians know nothing about Earth, and yet first one we meet is a white female to confront a black female. I'm just gonna throw that there built there too. So this episode, they. Again, it's a nice exchange about. And John asks her after first declaring deals off if you make me white. But asks her, like, why does she. How did she choose the way to present herself? Because she is not white. And, and. And she gives a line about the fastest way to understanding a civilization is to come from at, a disadvantage. I. Barrier of adversity. Because that makes you stronger, more stronger than comfort ever could. What did you think about this moment in this episode?

17:42 >> Will: I think what you set it up perfectly. I mean, it really was a good bookend to what we discussed earlier as far as how the Guardians. And also something that the, that. That John's family presented early as well, as far as they don't notice us either down here or up there. And, and it was very interesting that a creation of the Guardians is the one who realized that in order to be able to survive in this environment, you know, which really speaks to something about. It just really gets into something about. With the Guardians and just. It was one. It's one of those things like, yeah, the Guardians as an institution, as a body, they see they're the protectors of the universe. They're the cop, they're the police of the universe. But over time, just like many institutions, they. They get so convinced in their own rightness and, and they get up, and they get oblivious or, or they, they put balls up or just have blind spots about the things around them. And so I think that's sort of what this show is saying about the Guardians here, is that, yes, they are the protectors of the universe and stuff, but they're unavailable. And in fact, they have some significant blind spots as far as how they treat the people that they're supposed to be protecting.

18:56 >> Sarah : Well, and it's also. They have a full universe, okay. Galaxy, whatever. Like, like space is a large area. Yeah, so. So there's a line not in this episode, but in a different episode that basically suggests the, the fact that, there's a reason why there had never been a Guardian on Earth before. Like, we were. We were. We're considered the sewer. And part of that comes from the diversity. So I don't know if like, as a whole, they. They have this huge blind spot, but it's just this, this idea that the diversity in all of the different races and make that. That.

19:43 That exists in humankind or mankind, they. That that unique quality doesn't exist on any other planet. Like, there. There's something. I mean, people in, in shows like this science fiction, it's always like the humanity of it all. But no, this one is like leaning more towards into the fact that there are so many different races makes. Makes a very unique paradigm in this civilization that is not found on arguably any other planet from what We've learned. And in terms of this show, so. And I still call bullshit because I still. That they know something. They. They knew something enough. They knew enough. The one Guardian, Liana, knew enough to present herself as A, in that moment, and then B, she chose to make herself white. So she had to have known, like, well, your options are white chocolate and like. And ah. For some reason she did that. I think. I think that they knew a little bit more than they're letting on. They just didn't want to be perceived as racist in that moment. So.

21:03 >> Will: Yeah, that's very. Well, that's very. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I think. Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of what the show is trying to say too, which is. Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, I think it. You know, again, I really like the way they framed this. This whole moment between. Well, going back to really with Jon and Zoe in the. In the cafe when they were just having that initial conversation about, how's your way go? We get the episode three, of it all and the multiple moments twice in an episode where, you know that line about the Guardians and their, you know, well, the Guardians. And also just first time when they passed John's father for the lantern. And then again, I think his mother raised pushes that point too. So. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's. I know a lot of people sometimes will, you know, some viewers quibble about that as being all woke and stuff, but, I mean, it actually is not. It's actually a very good point of storytelling there that they're. That they're, you know, that they're highlighting about humanity's role in the universe here, within this universe in particular, and even just everyday life here.

22:08 >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. And. And I like. I think it works because the conversation also goes into the ab and swear of it all. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : And more importantly, the distrust with the Guardians, because she knows he. He has yet to say anything to the Guardians, so clearly he doesn't trust them. And he admits that when confronted with it. And. And we've known that. That there's been a kernel of distress, especially since they said, Liana specifically said, no, no, you're gonna just take the ring. He's never gonna give it to you, so you have to take it. And. And it's very interesting because you would think for someone who, quote, unquote, apparently has been watching this kid go through all these years of training and everything, to know that that would be somewhat against his moral code because. And he even says, like, it was because they won't told me to take it. Like he. That rubbed him the wrong way. And that leads to him doing what he's told the Order. And, and he does take it and he gives it right back because he. It doesn't feel right.

23:27 Like this is the first time. Well, arguably when he's received what he's wanted and. But. But he didn't. I think why it doesn't work for John is because by taking it, it doesn't feel. >> Will: I don't know. Yeah. And we've talked. I mean, we've. We've. We have touched on that, throughout the. The earning of the. Earning the ring. One, two. It gets into the programming part of the thing is to be like. Zoe was programmed to react and respond a certain way because that's what the Guardians programmed her to do. So that was one of the things that Anton, for example, knew. That's why Mason was not. Was not really the Manhunter, because they don't. They don't invite death. And then. And then this and in the other actions that she did, how he has his own version of programming. As far as just what we were just discussing earlier as far as superhero thing, his.

24:23 His wired ideation was, I'm gonna set all these things up when he was talking to Carrie because this. Here's the plan, what I'm gonna do, because this. I'm a superhero. So that's my. That's my program. John, from the moment that his mom made the deal with Liana and they were. They literally programmed him to train him up to be a Green Lantern. And to the point where when I was watching that whole sequence go down there with John and Leanna, I was like, is this was the moment John. His agency came through and he made a choice. And. And I think to me that was where Sinestro was going as far as why John was so dangerous because he. With. Despite all the things, all the training, he's, you know, is what we talked about before, like how he and Hal are very similar. John, it. Even with the whole thing as far as how Hal thinking, well, he's just going to follow orders. He's just going to. Well, music's gonna, That's how he's been programmed to do so the fact that Sinestro saw John had that.

25:23 That has still had that glimmer of like his own self and. And moral code. Like you were saying, that this doesn't feel right because I didn't earn it. It was, I won't say handed to me. And it's handed to me. But it was. It wasn't something that I. It wasn't because of my own blood, sweat and tears or whatever that I got this. Basically, the situation was such that me that Hal and John got into a fight. >> Sarah : He. He. He beat him to the pulp. >> Will: He beat. Yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : But then, can I just add in here, like, so you brought. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : I don't agree with you about Hal to an extent. I don't think it's a superhero thing, programming. You're forgetting that Sinestro told him what to do about John and that's the plan that he tries to enact in this episode. It was Sinestro's plan. So.

26:14 So it's interesting. Like, he tries to do that just like John tries to do what the Guardians want him to do. And neither plan works out because that's not them. It's ironic. And to go back to the Liana of it all, it's like that distrust there in this episode, Zoe is trying to use so many things. Like they. They've had sex a few times. Will has mentioned it three times. So they. She has played that card. Now she is being savior mode and saving him. There she is reconfirming like, I am your people.

26:56 Like, we are similar. You see me, I see you. Like, there's a connection there. She re. That. And then she brings up the Guardians and the fact that they made me. And so she's thinking that all of this is gonna allow her to win, but he still chooses to kill her. Like, and, And, And I. That goes back to also the conversation Hal and John have about, killing people. Like, there's a reason why Hal didn't. When he could have really removed Jon from the board. He didn't. He. He just kind of put him on ice and then. And, let what happened happens.

27:43 And the same thing. In that moment, he takes. He could easily. I think John, I don't know. Both of you basically did cause some real pain. So you could have led a little bit gentler, but. Dear Lord. But he doesn't kill Hal. He just takes the ring, goes about his way, and then uses him as bait. So that. Because that's what Zoe wants him to do. Again, these people who have been telling, whether it be Hal or Jon, what to do to get what they. They play into it. And then Jon, more so than Hal, swerve and just. And be like, you know what? I'm gonna. I'm gonna do it my way and then I'm gonna get what I want. And then I'm Gonna return it because I didn't. I got it the way I didn't want to get it. And this. This doesn't feel right. And. And. Sorry, my last point about that whole thing is I just want a reminder. John was the one to experience the.

28:48 What Zoe actually did that caused this whole situation to occur. Like that genocide that occurred on that anatomic planet. >> Will: That's right. >> Sarah : This is the one who still like that. I don't think Zoe factored in. >> Will: Yeah, she didn't. Yeah, she probably, Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good point. I'm glad you brought that. Brought that up about the genocide, because that's. Again, that. That X factor that she didn't account for. And even. And then also. Even the. Again, both of them having the plan, like when I was lying there and basically used. Was used as bait so that John could take, you know, take out. Take Zoe out. And then also. And I think too Hal had. He had a. Both John and Hal have had opportunities to kill one another.

29:34 >> Sarah : Yeah. Oh, yeah, they have. >> Will: Yeah, they have. >> Sarah : Or. Or. >> Will: Or do something to like, not like. Because even that moment when. When. When the Manhunters attack on the motel, with the last little bit of energy that they had in that ring, Hal enveloped both of them. Even though Hal was just like, in the moment, you know, you're not going to take this goddamn ring from me. But, >> Sarah : But he's not going to kill John. >> Will: He's not going to kill John. >> Sarah : He can't kill an innocent life. >> Will: Yeah, they're. Both of them are like, have their. Their. Their issues and stuff, but at the core, they're just both honorable men, you know, how's. Kind of lost his way a bit and gotten a little jaded over time. John. John is now sort of had this epiphany. Like, I, you know, I, This just doesn't feel right because, yeah, I got the ring, but how did I get it? You know, take it from basically a defenseless man at this point.

30:23 >> Sarah : And also, I want to bring up a line, he says to Lyanna, like, what's in the bag? Your sins and consequences teams the genocide not only on Zoe, but on Zoe's creator and as he should. So. So I think that's why they. They had another reason why they had the. The conversation about the fact that Zoe was. The Manhunters were created by the Guardians. Because again, knowing what he knows about the Manhunter knowing who created them and who then are now, like everything the Manhunters do then goes back to the sins of the creator, the sins of the parents.

31:08 >> Will: So. >> Sarah : So it's. I think, also on why. Another reason for him to return the ring is like, I don't want to work for you. I've. I've realized what working for you does to people. I'm going to go a different way. I don't. I don't know. You know, now that I've done the job, things will get. >> Will: Pick. Pick other objects. >> Sarah : Yeah. I think I'm going to go and do some art stuff and some architecture, you know, build some buildings instead of tearing it down. I don't know. But I mean, I know a lot of people are saying, like, this is episode five, and that felt like the finale. I don't think so. And here's why. Because this. Because episode one sets up a few different things. And like you brought in this discussion. We have yet to return to 2026. So. So we. And we know Guy is just chilling in the shadows right now. So we. They have given us a story, but they. They also very carefully open doors that leave doors open. And as we discussed in previous weeks, like, this is called the Lanterns. It's not about a single lantern. Okay.

32:22 Is. So we got a few different paths we're walking on. And for Hal, all roads lead to Rushville because he. He ends up in Rushville, dead. So now does he stay there after the events of 2016? We don't know. But I. I just. I think that they did a very good job in that pilot episode of setting a past, present, future. Yeah, we have. We took that one episode in episode three to explore the past. We've taken predominantly the rest of the episodes to explore the present. The future is a coming. >> Will: Yep. I wonder if we'll get any more of the Sentry Century Howl, because that was the other thing, that came up briefly in this episode. And so. And of course, we did see John have some interaction with the Sentry. So I wonder if we'll get some of that with Guy and Century How. I guess hologram, you know, with, in. In 2026, whenever he gets to ring. So. Yeah, I mean, it's just. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I think, you know, we got three episodes left. I didn't feel like it was the finale either. I mean, it definitely. But it was a. I felt like it was the end of a chapter. Yeah, but. But as far as the, end, I didn't feel like.

33:33 Or ended of the season. No, I didn't feel that way either. It just felt like. Okay, we're closing the chapter on 2016, and now we're going to get into 2026 and just, you know, pick up, I guess. And I'm sure in between that time, we'll probably get maybe some intervening, you know, some, some history between 2016 and 2026, as well as some kind of flashback to sort of contextualize how Hal ended up back in Rushville and on the, in, in, in the football stadium. As you brought up earlier in our discussions during this series, there's something special about that football stadium and. >> Sarah : Oh, I, I, I thought I brought it up because Kyle Chandler, Friday Night Lights. >> Will: Well, there's Friday, there's that piece, but he also, there's definitely the Friday Night Lights of it all, but, but also just sort of, it's sort of that focal point because that was what, you know, whenever John and Hal had their, sort of first got into town and the Manhunters were there with all the massacre and stuff. So with the mass, shooting there during the game and just recognizing all the things that were going on, how there was no emotion considering, you know, the event that happened there. So.

34:37 >> Sarah : Well, I also, I mean, also, there's a lot to be filled in about John. He is like, I know I just two minutes ago said the show is called Lanterns and Son about a single person, but John has predominantly. We got a full flashback episode of John, so, so it's also the 10 years. Okay, so he rejected the ring. He's. Carrie first calls him the. Between these three characters, Carrie, John, and the ten years that occur between present and future, there. There is a lot still to mind, and I don't think we're going to get it in three episodes. I think they're going to like, they want this show to go on another season or more so. So I think that they have definitely opened this world to tell multiple stories. And we got the end of a chapter.

35:32 And in these next three episodes, we're gonna get probably an end of another chapter, but also the start of a bunch too. So, I mean, the writers know how to write on this show, and Linda Loft, we know, knows what he's doing, and they're just very consistent right now, which I appreciate. And like I said before, I appreciate being right. >> Will: Yes, you are. >> Sarah : You are too. Will you lead? You guide me follow? And sometimes I'm like, I'm gonna. >> Will: No, no. I did make a note, though, to con. You were right, I was wrong about the, the man. At least the Manhunter and the Benefactor being two different people. We, we definitely learned this week that the Benefactor was indeed the man. They were one in the same you.

36:14 >> Sarah : I'm, I appreciate it. And I will try not to say I still don't understand how you thought they were different people, but just didn't. >> Will: It was. It was. It was a very effective head fake. I will just say that. >> Sarah : Okay, well, I know you've gone through a lot, so I'm just going to leave it there. Do you think it was, >> Will: You know, it's one of those things you get, you know, you get. You know, it's like the fan theories. You know, everybody gets so wrapped up in their little fan theories that, like, oh, maybe there's more, you know, but. >> Sarah : Right. You get stubborn about it and. >> Will: Yeah, and I totally did. I freely admit that I did. >> Sarah : Fan theories. Certain people having romantic relationships, you know, I can relate to that. Sorry, it's like, what? All right, well, I think that is it for us tonight. Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you.

37:00 >> Will: Yes, you can find me on the all the socials at, Will and Polk. W, I L, L M B O >> Sarah : L. You can find me there, too, at S.J. belmont. S J, B L M O T. Please follow our crew on Twitter @Cena Nerd. on Blue Sky. Find us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene Nerd, and visit our website, www.cerner nerd podcast.com. but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome, Sam.