Lanterns Eps 3 Discussion: The Intersection of Race, Family, and Heroism in John's Story

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>> Sarah : Foreign. Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and

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with me, as always, is our M. Mr. Producer, Will

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Paul. How are you doing tonight, Will?

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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. I hope you're doing well.

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Looking forward to talking about episode three of

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Lanterns. I know it's really the hot topic this

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week for sure.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah.

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So we are talking Lanterns. Season one, episode

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three, Outcast. When his father misinterprets the

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Guardians contact, John becomes the next choice

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for a Green Lantern. And after years of

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preparation, he finally gets the interview with

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the Guardians. Will, what did you think about this

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episode?

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>> Will: Well, I, I have to say I really enjoyed this

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episode. It was completely, unapologetically

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black, so I really enjoyed that, that aspect of

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it. But also, but I think there was also some

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universal themes as well that, you know, that

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people can, you know, definitely can resonate

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with, with viewers. You know, we've all seen like,

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the, you know, the parenteral expectations, the

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parental situations where you may have the chosen

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kid who may excel in athletics or, you know,

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academics or something like that. And you know, so

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we have the proverbial sports parent. In this

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case, it's the superhero parent. But also, I think

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there was, you know, some exploration of, of John

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and his agency and places where he, you know, he

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tried to have his own little quiet rebellions

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wherever. So like I said, I think there was a lot

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to unpack in this episode.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, let's go ahead and start with the parents.

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So we, we get the revelation that John's father

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was chosen by the ring and he asked the question.

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And of course, I mean, you're, you're taken from

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your sleep and risen out of bed. So you're like,

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yeah, I am afraid because I have no idea what's

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going on. Which kind of stems into this whole

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thing about how at the time when the ring was

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searching for it's the new Lantern, they, it, it

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was a flawed system. Appeared to more than even

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just John's father. There was a lot of people who

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are now distraught psychosis. And, and it all

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makes logical sense. I mean, I, I said this last

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week. Something that struck me even in the first

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episode is that they're doing aliens on Earth

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really well, because there's a subtleness, but

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there's also a balance to it where it doesn't feel

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hokey or anything, allows these things to exist in

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what feels like an authentic reality. So in the,

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in the first episode, we, we get a glimpse at,

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John's relationship with his father. And, and

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from, from no one who knows Jon Stewart, there's a

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sense of a very stern and tough father. But I like

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how much this is Bernie's plan. This is only. It

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was. It's her house, it's her rules. And John,

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John Sr. And John Jr. Just abide. Okay. I mean

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John, of course John Senior does have to agree to

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it, but he does ask the question or raises point.

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John will hate them for this and she's just like,

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so be. Whatever. This is the way through. But I, I

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really, that struck me and I really appreciated

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that.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think that was one of the

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things that really stuck out to me as well as far

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as the. You know, because we, and also the first

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week we, we were wondering about where, where was

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John's mother and all, all of this because, you

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know, whenever we were first introduced to John,

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you know, given the way they've done this show

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with the time jumps, our introduction to young

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John was the whole William Tell moment where he's

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with, you know, we see the bullet holes and stuff.

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And all that. And of course, you know, without

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that, you know, without the additional context,

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you're like, man, this is like kind of, you know,

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it's borderline or it is, you know, abusive. But,

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but yeah, but whenever we see it in the, in the

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larger context now with, with this origin story

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that, that we get presented in this third episode

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with John, then we understand like you truly is

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how Bernadette came up with this plan after the

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Garden Guardians came and Lynn, I think the

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character's name was. Yeah, yeah. Laura Linda.

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>> Sarah : Yeah.

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>> Will: It was just in the closed captions that, where I

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think they had, they saw the, we saw the

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character's name. It wasn't actually spoken on

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screen. But yeah, but you know, but we, you know,

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we, we, we see, we learn, you know, we, we learn

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from that conversation several things. You know,

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the trauma that the Guardians just didn't really

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understand that their, their, their prior met

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people was flawed. But also, you know, again gets

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into the. Some of the winner to ask the question.

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Well, are you afraid? You know, I know there's

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been, you know, clearly asking a black man that in

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America. Are you afraid? You know, there, there's,

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you know, they, they didn't phantom and they

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didn't understand, you know, asking that type of

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question what, what generational or you know,

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historical trauma that that entails.

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>> Sarah : Which like it's such a, such a good point. But at

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the same time, like the, to go back to what you

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just said about the flawed system. It's flawed

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because it's being enacted On Earth. So this,

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because Hal's the first Earth Guardian, it makes

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you think about the fact like, okay, so there's so

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many planets with guardians at this point, solar

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systems with guardians, and yet this is the first

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time they're coming here. And suddenly the flaws

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appeared. So. So you're telling me all the other

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alien species, they don't have this thing called

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race. They don't have this thing where people

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don't look like each other. And this is a global

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phenomenon and you don't have different color

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skins. So it's, It helps make the uniqueness of

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Earth in retrospect to like, why it worked on the

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other planets and why. I mean, they. They said

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we're a. But we also have diversity. So I think

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that's something.

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>> Will: Yeah. And there was also too, I think they were

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making some points about, I think, genetic makeup

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of people too, which, you know, which is also had

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multiple meanings as far as, like, you know, what

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is flawed, you know, or are they saying that a

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black man is flawed or humans flawed in itself,

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you know, or, you know, or. Yeah, you know.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, so. So she, Laura Linney's character admits

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that they didn't understand the ramifications of

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this. And then she also, I mean, it's more

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personal when talking with Bernie because we don't

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know how many black men or how many black white

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men were selected or Hispanic or Asian or any of

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that.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : But she chose to reveal herself as a white woman.

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So, Do you think there is. There is a little bit

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of a raised eyebrow? Like, so you're telling me

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you know nothing about race and you're confronting

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me as my own gender, but the quote unquote white

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version. So what. What do the Guardians know and

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what don't they understand about Earth?

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>> Will: Yeah, I mean, there's just so many now that you

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bring that up because, you, know, I guess

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subconsciously, I, You know, I did like clock that

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while I was watching that scene. But now that

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you've like, verbalized it as you. And especially,

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you know, in the context that we're having this

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conversation, you know, it really just doubles

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down the point that you made earlier about how

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unique the Guardian, you know, even though the

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Guardian didn't out now, you know, the Guardian

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acknowledged that there. That Earth, even though

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it's a. Of a place, it has some. Some unique

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points. And one of the things, you know, and, and,

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but also, again, gets back to that fundamental

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lack of understanding and cultural competency that

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the Guardians had as far as just understanding the

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nuances. Of interpersonal dynamics and inter.

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Racial. You know, even though race is a, you know,

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is a construct basically that's been developed

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here on this. Here on Earth for over. Over time.

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And how. How. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

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>> Sarah : Choice. I would make myself look like Laura. Lenny

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too. I mean, she looks great for her age.

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>> Will: Yes. To be fair.

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>> Sarah : And you know, her, her acting. So.

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>> Will: So look at the casting.

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But it really just doubles down the point. Like

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just how. How. How oblivious the Guardians are to

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like things on this world. And like, you know, and

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also, you know, the

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>> Sarah : oblivious, but not. I think. I think they do a

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good job about making us understand John also

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dropping seeds about the Guardians.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : And the lantern way. Because how. How isn't how.

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For no reason. You know, so there. There are

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reasons why he makes the choices he made that

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leads him. Leads them to find a replacement. So.

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But to. To hold on to the parents. Bernie. I'm

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gonna call her Bernie because I. I like that

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nickname. I. I was thinking that nickname before

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he even said it. Like, I just want to call.

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Because she doesn't feel like a Bernadette, but

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she feels like a Bernie. She's a badass. But to go

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back to the parents and the quote, unquote, child

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abuse. So I. You. You brought up before the

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William Tell scene of it. I'll Apple on the head.

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and we see that a few different times in this

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episode. And it's. It's all about perspective.

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Because as you brought up in the first episode,

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the perspective of something ain't right in this

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family. Fast forward to this episode. All about

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the family and the childhood and Jon Stewart. And

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so the first time Jon himself places the apple on

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his head and he wants his father to shoot it. And

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the hesitancy that his father has and the lack of

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hesitancy from Bernie M. He ultimately doesn't

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shoot it right. Really? Am I getting that right?

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Yeah, he. He doesn't shoot it. And then later he

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does shoot it because I. I think we see him shoot

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it at least once.

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>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Because then. Yeah, they do it. Yeah.

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Because then he. And that was the whole thing

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where the cheeseburger reward started.

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>> Sarah : Started. Yeah. But then later when. When Bernie is

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frustrated with. And losing faith almost, if you

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will, the Guardians. And in this whole plan,

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granted, at this point he's like 10 years old. So

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she then encourages John Jr. To his father. The

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apple off his head. And. And the. The same fear

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that. That fear is expressed in John Senior, like,

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both ways. It's all there. And. And then. But John

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Jr. Can and then you have, and then there's a part

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where Bernie comforts, quote, unquote, her son.

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And, and then he decides, okay, we're going to do

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this, but I'm not going to shoot off of your head.

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Her face when, when he is aiming. And, and then

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when it is shot. And like, you know, like, I was

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surprised the camera didn't pan back to where she

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was standing and there wasn't a puddle. I mean,

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let's go.

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>> Will: Oh, yeah. Well, especially, like, you know, given

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what we talked about before, like, mom wasn't

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present in that first episode, so I was like, oh,

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they won't she.

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>> Sarah : No, you went there.

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>> Will: Well, there, Well, a couple reasons why. One is,

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yeah, it's the superhero trope, you know, because

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every super, you know, even in this show, you

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know, Hal lost his parents when it, you know,

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whenever they were young, when he was young. So I

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was thinking maybe that was the way they were

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going.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. But no, it, it, they didn't go there.

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So. To stick on the childhood.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : I want to talk about the birds. Not the birds and

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the bees, but the birds. Because I have a question

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for you, Will. Yeah. Did John's mom make up the

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birds?

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>> Will: I think it was, it was the sort of, it's the

247
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Scene N Claus phenomenon, you know, or, or elf or,

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or the elf on the shelf, you know, as far as,

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like, you know, you, you, we got, you know, you

250
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got to do these things, kid, to, like, in order to

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get your reward.

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>> Sarah : And I, I, I love that there was a pause because I

253
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love the idea that throughout this whole episode,

254
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every time you think you understand what's going

255
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on with the birds, there is an interaction or a

256
00:12:54,270 --> 00:12:56,510
scene that leaves you to doubt it. The fact that

257
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she says it, but she says it after we, like, fast

258
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forward a few years and he's blowing out his

259
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candles on his fifth birthday and there's a bird

260
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on the cake. So he had, and they did that

261
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purposely because he already had a fascination

262
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with birds before she saw anything. And then she

263
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takes it, but simultaneously, because we're coming

264
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in from last week's episode, and he creates the

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bird and we know. And, and then the way the birds

266
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are seen out the rest of this episode, they, they

267
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did such a good job of making you question if

268
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Scene N Claus exists to take your metaphor. And,

269
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and I could go either way. I, I think that she did

270
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manipulate it and use it as a point of making sure

271
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he understood the st. Mistakes and that there are

272
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others watching him because he wanted her to

273
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believe in the Guardians as much as she did. But

274
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she could not bring the Guardians to have that

275
00:14:03,340 --> 00:14:06,020
conversation the way she did because she knows

276
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what it feels like to hear John Senior tell her

277
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what happened and not believe it. So she. She has

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to convince him or else there will be a fear if

279
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and when he ever does meet the Guardians. So. But

280
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I. But I. I mean that I was A question I have.

281
00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:27,660
But I have another thing, and this isn't a

282
00:14:27,660 --> 00:14:29,900
question, but a point I want to bring up because

283
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something that struck me in terms of the childhood

284
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and the upbringing of Jon Stewart in this episode

285
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was I kept circling back to a point that was made

286
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about Hal Jordan in either the first or second

287
00:14:46,180 --> 00:14:49,920
episodes. There's that scene where. Share. Where

288
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Carrie points out how lonely. How. I mean, we see

289
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his house, we. We see bits and pieces of him, but

290
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we don't see any family. We don't see any,

291
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friends. We. We see a guy obsessed, but also mad

292
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at his job at the same time. Like, it's all very

293
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confusing. And he. He just battled his mentor and

294
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sent him to prison and all of this stuff. Stuff.

295
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So he. But that loneliness. And I bring that up

296
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because there's a lot of conversation during the

297
00:15:26,750 --> 00:15:30,710
job interview, but it flashes. It's all informed

298
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:32,790
by the flashbacks that we're seeing throughout

299
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this episode about how isolating Jon Stewart's

300
00:15:38,270 --> 00:15:42,190
childhood and adulthood has been just through

301
00:15:42,190 --> 00:15:45,570
these series of events. And I thought that was so

302
00:15:45,570 --> 00:15:49,930
good because simultaneously we understand the. The

303
00:15:50,090 --> 00:15:55,450
odd couple of it all, but. But this hones in on

304
00:15:55,610 --> 00:16:01,130
the sameness. They are both very lonely for very

305
00:16:01,130 --> 00:16:02,010
different reasons.

306
00:16:02,090 --> 00:16:05,930
>> Will: Yeah, I. I picked up on that. That as well. And

307
00:16:05,930 --> 00:16:08,890
also just the. The lonely loneliness, as far as,

308
00:16:08,970 --> 00:16:10,490
you know, whenever you're having a conversation in

309
00:16:10,490 --> 00:16:13,410
your interview, but also just in the household

310
00:16:13,410 --> 00:16:17,070
dynamics with like, for ex. Yeah. Yeah. You know,

311
00:16:17,070 --> 00:16:18,950
obviously, you know, there's. There's a scene, of

312
00:16:18,950 --> 00:16:22,070
course, in the car and every day was when he was

313
00:16:22,070 --> 00:16:26,070
rap Atlanteans, the Outcast song, there. And they,

314
00:16:26,070 --> 00:16:28,390
you know, how he recited it back to them and you

315
00:16:28,390 --> 00:16:30,390
know, they were like, stunned. It's like. And

316
00:16:30,390 --> 00:16:32,350
even. It's something that John even said himself.

317
00:16:32,350 --> 00:16:34,110
It's like, you know, we were all, you know, for 18

318
00:16:34,110 --> 00:16:36,630
years, we all were under the same roof. But to

319
00:16:36,630 --> 00:16:39,230
your point, you know, he was alone. It's like, you

320
00:16:39,230 --> 00:16:41,430
know, is this, you know, because of, you know, the

321
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:43,390
thing I thought about the siblings is like, you

322
00:16:43,390 --> 00:16:45,400
know, also just, you know, with a lot of times,

323
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,440
you'll see where you know, the gift. Again, I'm an

324
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,290
only child. So I can't speak to this, but, but I

325
00:16:49,290 --> 00:16:52,170
have seen it with friends, you know, with folks

326
00:16:52,170 --> 00:16:55,530
who have the gifted kid, whether it's the gifted

327
00:16:55,530 --> 00:16:57,530
football player or the gifted whatever, you know,

328
00:16:57,530 --> 00:17:00,529
all the attention and everything goes to. To that

329
00:17:00,529 --> 00:17:02,890
gifted child. And then the others are. Yeah.

330
00:17:02,890 --> 00:17:04,810
>> Sarah : I just want to bring up a point because I've heard

331
00:17:04,810 --> 00:17:08,330
that point raised. But. And, And I, I totally

332
00:17:08,330 --> 00:17:11,050
agree with it. But it's interesting that we go to

333
00:17:11,050 --> 00:17:16,540
that point and not, The last child syndrome is

334
00:17:16,540 --> 00:17:18,380
sick. All the attention is on them.

335
00:17:18,380 --> 00:17:19,460
>> Will: Yeah, well, that's another.

336
00:17:20,340 --> 00:17:23,780
>> Sarah : Yeah, but it's the inverse of it. Like you, You.

337
00:17:23,780 --> 00:17:27,540
It goes both ways, whether they are. They are on

338
00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:31,060
one end of where they are unfortunately, very ill,

339
00:17:31,220 --> 00:17:35,460
very, very talented and gifted. And I mean, God,

340
00:17:36,580 --> 00:17:39,620
there's probably so many examples of it, but.

341
00:17:39,860 --> 00:17:44,970
Yeah. The loneliness of being a son with two

342
00:17:44,970 --> 00:17:47,850
brothers and yet having very different childhood

343
00:17:47,850 --> 00:17:48,650
experiences.

344
00:17:48,970 --> 00:17:51,050
>> Will: Yeah. You know, another show I thought about too,

345
00:17:51,050 --> 00:17:52,770
when we watched earlier this year with, you know,

346
00:17:52,770 --> 00:17:55,490
with the similar dynamic with gifted brothers and,

347
00:17:55,490 --> 00:17:58,490
And. And other. And. And. And loneliness is

348
00:17:59,210 --> 00:17:59,970
assignment.

349
00:17:59,970 --> 00:18:02,890
You know, I was just thinking about that is as we

350
00:18:02,890 --> 00:18:04,650
were getting ready for tonight's recording, and I

351
00:18:04,650 --> 00:18:06,410
was like, you know, you know, we all, you know,

352
00:18:06,410 --> 00:18:08,610
we've seen these type of characters who, who

353
00:18:08,610 --> 00:18:11,250
grapple, who. Who deal with loneliness and you

354
00:18:11,250 --> 00:18:14,840
know, people, you know, and, you know, and really

355
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,240
putting up a, you know, putting up a mask. You

356
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:18,760
know, given that we're already a superhero.

357
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,520
Superhero world here. You know, I think John, you

358
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,800
know, you know, had a mass that he had built up

359
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,290
over years. you know, as far as we see it, how it,

360
00:18:28,290 --> 00:18:30,530
you know, how it influenced his military career.

361
00:18:30,530 --> 00:18:30,810
>> Sarah : Yeah.

362
00:18:30,810 --> 00:18:32,370
>> Will: And, you know, and of course, you know, to your

363
00:18:32,370 --> 00:18:34,610
point about how, you know, we do see, you know,

364
00:18:34,610 --> 00:18:38,610
when the vision of him, early days of his. His 10

365
00:18:38,610 --> 00:18:40,690
years, Green Lantern, you know, wearing a mask,

366
00:18:40,690 --> 00:18:43,770
whereas now, you know, now Hal is out and, you

367
00:18:43,770 --> 00:18:45,810
know, doesn't wear the uniform and doesn't wear

368
00:18:45,810 --> 00:18:48,810
the mask. And historically too, Jon Stewart in the

369
00:18:48,810 --> 00:18:50,250
comics did not wear a mask.

370
00:18:50,250 --> 00:18:51,690
Something I brought up, you know, when we talked

371
00:18:51,690 --> 00:18:54,010
about, you know, the episodes last week, you know,

372
00:18:54,010 --> 00:18:56,090
he didn't feel the need to hide anything, which is

373
00:18:56,090 --> 00:18:59,130
very interesting, you know, with this show where

374
00:18:59,130 --> 00:19:01,850
he was, you know, very open about his. At least

375
00:19:01,850 --> 00:19:03,250
with his family, you know, they were very open

376
00:19:03,250 --> 00:19:05,450
about trying to like, become a Green Lantern. So

377
00:19:05,450 --> 00:19:07,050
it's just very interesting how all these, you

378
00:19:07,050 --> 00:19:10,290
know, how these lonely individuals both how, like

379
00:19:10,290 --> 00:19:12,770
you said, how. How their loneliness manifested

380
00:19:12,770 --> 00:19:15,130
itself as far as being a green. You know, being a

381
00:19:15,130 --> 00:19:16,690
Green Lantern or want to be Green Lantern.

382
00:19:16,690 --> 00:19:19,290
>> Sarah : Yeah. And then it's pointed out by Laura Linney

383
00:19:19,290 --> 00:19:22,420
that, Guardians themselves, Lanterns themselves

384
00:19:22,740 --> 00:19:25,900
have. There's isolation and loneliness and there's

385
00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:29,700
a fear that Guardians who are selected, that

386
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:35,140
attribute would be in direct opposition with that

387
00:19:35,140 --> 00:19:36,900
idea of family and friends.

388
00:19:37,620 --> 00:19:38,020
>> Will: Yeah.

389
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:41,770
>> Sarah : And then, But we've already seen like John. John's

390
00:19:41,770 --> 00:19:45,290
inadvertently. That loneliness that came with his

391
00:19:45,290 --> 00:19:48,770
childhood has now just been like, yeah, I'm. I'm

392
00:19:48,770 --> 00:19:50,090
already a loner. I'm good.

393
00:19:50,090 --> 00:19:50,850
>> Will: I'm already a loner.

394
00:19:50,850 --> 00:19:51,530
>> Sarah : Yeah, I'm already.

395
00:19:51,770 --> 00:19:53,610
>> Will: And I don't need. We don't need to have a dead.

396
00:19:53,610 --> 00:19:55,770
The dead parent trauma to like, you know, drive me

397
00:19:55,770 --> 00:19:59,170
to become a superhero. Oh, well, this is all the

398
00:19:59,170 --> 00:19:59,450
plan.

399
00:20:00,170 --> 00:20:03,330
>> Sarah : Yeah. End of the season, there's still time for

400
00:20:03,330 --> 00:20:04,250
parents to die.

401
00:20:04,570 --> 00:20:06,890
>> Will: True, true. But by that point, he. Yeah, well, I

402
00:20:06,890 --> 00:20:08,410
guess, yeah, we're just. We're stuck. You know,

403
00:20:08,410 --> 00:20:10,470
we're pret much spent a lot of time in 2016 when

404
00:20:10,470 --> 00:20:11,960
he was being interviewed. Not, We haven't gone to

405
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,600
2026 since we saw how on the bleachers they're

406
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:14,960
dead.

407
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,360
>> Sarah : So we'll put a pin on that for a moment.

408
00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:20,640
Let's talk about formerly Sergeant Major John

409
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,320
Stewart. So during the interview, we don't just

410
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,240
cut back to the childhood, but we cut back to how

411
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,480
he is now. He was dishonorably discharged. What

412
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,120
did. What did you think about the inclusion of

413
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:38,160
this series of events or this chapter of Jon

414
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:39,040
Stewart's life?

415
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:42,070
>> Will: Yeah, I. It had a couple. I had a couple thoughts

416
00:20:42,070 --> 00:20:44,000
about it. one, it just, you know, again, it just

417
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,240
reinforces his military career as far, you know,

418
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,240
because even. Even the Guardian asked, you know,

419
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,720
the query why he. Why did he become a Marine. But

420
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,440
I think it really gets into a cup. I think it gets

421
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:58,160
into his couple. His. One of thought. One thing.

422
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,400
One thought I had was like whatever she pressed

423
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,120
him on why he. Why he was disarming discharge is

424
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:04,680
getting through the truth. I tell him the truth.

425
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,160
In the situation with his father, when he told the

426
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,440
truth about being afraid, he. He lost out on being

427
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:15,260
a Lantern. And whenever John Jr shares the truth

428
00:21:15,260 --> 00:21:18,420
about, you know, failing the mission due to. And

429
00:21:18,420 --> 00:21:20,780
not taking the shot is, you know, Cause he didn't

430
00:21:20,780 --> 00:21:23,100
try to concoct some story about. He was just very

431
00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:24,820
honest. Like, yeah, Leonard came and before I

432
00:21:24,820 --> 00:21:26,460
could take the shot, you know, Hal Jordan saved

433
00:21:26,460 --> 00:21:28,580
the day. So. But, you know, but both of them had

434
00:21:28,580 --> 00:21:31,900
consequence for being. Being, you know, honest.

435
00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:33,700
About the situations.

436
00:21:34,260 --> 00:21:36,260
>> Sarah : What do you think, John?

437
00:21:36,420 --> 00:21:39,080
>> Will: But also, but also. Yeah, well, before that too,

438
00:21:39,250 --> 00:21:41,450
other thought too is. But also because of his

439
00:21:41,450 --> 00:21:45,290
honesty with the Guardian and tell him what truly

440
00:21:45,290 --> 00:21:48,020
did happen. John Jr. Was being. It was. Was

441
00:21:48,020 --> 00:21:49,940
selected because like if he had gone some other

442
00:21:49,940 --> 00:21:53,020
way, he probably, they probably would have passed

443
00:21:53,020 --> 00:21:53,420
on him.

444
00:21:53,420 --> 00:21:54,660
>> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah.

445
00:21:54,660 --> 00:21:57,740
What do you think Jon Stewart really thinks about

446
00:21:57,740 --> 00:22:01,220
Hal Jordan? And, and I'm not the current Jon

447
00:22:01,220 --> 00:22:05,210
Stewart and not the 2026, but the, the when he's

448
00:22:05,210 --> 00:22:07,530
asked that question in what was the true answer?

449
00:22:07,850 --> 00:22:10,890
>> Will: He hates this guy. Oh yeah. But, but, well, maybe,

450
00:22:10,890 --> 00:22:13,530
maybe hates. But also I think there's a. I think

451
00:22:13,530 --> 00:22:17,290
there is a. There's a sort of like a thing where

452
00:22:17,690 --> 00:22:20,410
you respect the office, but maybe not the person.

453
00:22:20,570 --> 00:22:23,370
Yeah. So he respects the fact that yes, he is a

454
00:22:23,370 --> 00:22:27,530
Green Lantern, but I, I just don't respect this,

455
00:22:27,690 --> 00:22:30,330
this man at all. Especially whenever. I mean that

456
00:22:30,330 --> 00:22:34,560
moment when he's in the house there and you know,

457
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,800
break. You know, he's already like told the news

458
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,560
to the parents that he's going to be training

459
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,720
John. And you know, the whole huxtable cup, the

460
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,440
whole huxtable of it all which, you know, which

461
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,040
is, which is its own, like has so many meanings to

462
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,000
it because this episode has so many places where

463
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,680
he can go. But, but I think it really reinforced

464
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,560
like, like I said what I said earlier, that yeah,

465
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,320
he respects the office that this guy has, but he

466
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,100
doesn't respect the man at all.

467
00:22:59,180 --> 00:23:01,740
>> Sarah : Yeah. I think the discharge aside.

468
00:23:01,740 --> 00:23:02,140
>> Will: Yeah.

469
00:23:02,140 --> 00:23:06,300
>> Sarah : Hal Jordan is the villain of, of his childhood

470
00:23:06,380 --> 00:23:08,900
because he, he's already made peace that his

471
00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:11,260
father chose the wrong answer in that moment

472
00:23:11,260 --> 00:23:13,619
because if his father had chosen the right answer,

473
00:23:13,619 --> 00:23:16,100
his childhood would be very different. He would

474
00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:18,100
have been very. He would have been an art school

475
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:22,460
by the age of six. Okay. It would have been a very

476
00:23:22,460 --> 00:23:25,210
different childhood. And so I think, any

477
00:23:25,210 --> 00:23:28,690
resentment, because it's also brought up like if

478
00:23:28,690 --> 00:23:31,970
he resents his parents, if he. Does he love his

479
00:23:31,970 --> 00:23:35,090
parents because of everything that they've put him

480
00:23:35,090 --> 00:23:39,290
through. And, and I think he's put all of that on

481
00:23:39,369 --> 00:23:44,090
because he also, up until 2016, has never really

482
00:23:44,170 --> 00:23:49,770
met how he just. So, so you, you're kind of basing

483
00:23:49,770 --> 00:23:54,150
your opinion about someone and their actions over

484
00:23:54,630 --> 00:23:57,670
how they have affected your life without even

485
00:23:57,750 --> 00:24:00,990
knowing them and how. Doesn't understand. He has

486
00:24:00,990 --> 00:24:04,990
no idea who Jon Stewart is. He has no idea the

487
00:24:04,990 --> 00:24:08,790
impact. He doesn't know that. That who John, John

488
00:24:08,790 --> 00:24:13,910
Senior is. So there, there's so much ignorance

489
00:24:14,070 --> 00:24:18,390
with how that it's just like. Because, because

490
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:22,120
now. And that's why you get how being how where

491
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,640
pal. Pals. Like you're now becoming the villain of

492
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,440
my story. And I don't appreciate that and I'm not

493
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,920
a 10 year old child and I can tell it to your

494
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,890
face. Okay, but, but I really, I like that idea

495
00:24:35,890 --> 00:24:39,250
that even in that interview and when asked a

496
00:24:39,250 --> 00:24:44,090
question, he answered it like you said. But I

497
00:24:44,090 --> 00:24:48,560
think a 10 year old version would, would give a.

498
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,790
Albeit a more truthful answer. And he's. He's the

499
00:24:52,790 --> 00:24:56,150
devil. He's the person who stole my childhood. He

500
00:24:56,150 --> 00:25:01,430
ruined Christmas. So he. Because it, it reshaped

501
00:25:01,590 --> 00:25:05,670
everything about John's family and his entire life

502
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:09,470
journey. So it is, it's really interesting. And,

503
00:25:09,470 --> 00:25:12,910
and I like how we see both sides of it, as we now

504
00:25:13,070 --> 00:25:17,030
see John's side and we see Hal's side of it and,

505
00:25:17,030 --> 00:25:21,810
and the full circle moment. The way this was all

506
00:25:21,810 --> 00:25:27,650
edited was beautiful. I am not mad that we got in

507
00:25:27,650 --> 00:25:31,090
episode three, a flashback episode because there's

508
00:25:31,090 --> 00:25:34,610
been a lot of talk about that. And to, to me I'm

509
00:25:34,610 --> 00:25:38,210
just like, okay, y' all need to understand that

510
00:25:38,210 --> 00:25:41,450
there's a part of this audience, myself included,

511
00:25:41,770 --> 00:25:45,410
who have not read the comics who do not know Jon

512
00:25:45,410 --> 00:25:48,110
Stewart who are ah, albeit don't even know Hal

513
00:25:48,110 --> 00:25:51,670
Jordan. Yeah, we need a backstory. You may not,

514
00:25:51,910 --> 00:25:55,510
but there is a part of the audience and there's

515
00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:59,510
also a bigger net that the show is trying to get

516
00:25:59,750 --> 00:26:01,630
grasped and it's just called character

517
00:26:01,630 --> 00:26:01,910
development.

518
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:03,790
>> Will: Okay, exactly.

519
00:26:03,790 --> 00:26:07,550
>> Sarah : So. So I just get angry when I hear this. Oh my

520
00:26:07,550 --> 00:26:10,590
God, we have flashbacks. Are flashbacks episodes

521
00:26:10,590 --> 00:26:13,270
always my cup of tea? Hell no. We all know that.

522
00:26:13,270 --> 00:26:16,310
But, but when they are done right, they are done

523
00:26:16,310 --> 00:26:16,670
right.

524
00:26:16,670 --> 00:26:19,650
>> Will: Yeah. You're so up. Yeah, I mean, I 100% agree

525
00:26:19,650 --> 00:26:21,330
with you. Plus, I m mean especially in the comic

526
00:26:21,330 --> 00:26:23,570
book continuity, I mean there were like, I think

527
00:26:23,570 --> 00:26:25,810
multiple, you know, multiple versions of John's

528
00:26:25,810 --> 00:26:27,370
story. Because at first I think, you know, we got

529
00:26:27,370 --> 00:26:29,530
into this a little bit last week. One, ah, we.

530
00:26:29,530 --> 00:26:32,880
Whenever he was first introduced, you know, he,

531
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:36,400
you know, his family had a certain background. You

532
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,760
know, his parents, he lost his parents along the

533
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,370
way to various reasons. you know, one, you know,

534
00:26:41,370 --> 00:26:43,530
one point he was an architect, but then they

535
00:26:43,530 --> 00:26:46,530
retconned the marine piece to it. So, you know, so

536
00:26:46,530 --> 00:26:49,690
to your point, you know, for this character has

537
00:26:49,690 --> 00:26:53,490
needed a more developed, you know, backstory that,

538
00:26:53,730 --> 00:26:55,890
you know, that, you know, for once and for all,

539
00:26:56,370 --> 00:26:56,850
here's.

540
00:26:56,850 --> 00:26:59,090
Here is the, you know, and in particular, this

541
00:26:59,090 --> 00:27:02,290
adapt. It's an adaptation. So, you know, so people

542
00:27:02,290 --> 00:27:05,370
need to also, we've talked about this before. Back

543
00:27:05,370 --> 00:27:07,290
down a little bit, take it, you know, take a

544
00:27:07,290 --> 00:27:10,930
breath. It's an adaptation, you know, so in this

545
00:27:11,010 --> 00:27:15,260
live action version, this is the, origin story for

546
00:27:15,340 --> 00:27:18,790
Jon Stewart and be happy, you know. You know, and

547
00:27:18,790 --> 00:27:22,390
this is his first time being shown in live action.

548
00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:24,390
Yeah. You know, he was in a Justice League show

549
00:27:24,390 --> 00:27:26,430
for years and you know, and you know, animation,

550
00:27:26,510 --> 00:27:28,510
that's great, but this is the first time. So I'm

551
00:27:28,510 --> 00:27:30,790
glad they did this. And like you said, it was a

552
00:27:30,790 --> 00:27:34,790
well executed origin story that now as. That, you

553
00:27:34,790 --> 00:27:39,510
know, now as we continue in the series, well, you

554
00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:42,660
know, we, we have a better understanding for what

555
00:27:42,660 --> 00:27:45,900
yet is to come, what is driving those motivations.

556
00:27:46,060 --> 00:27:50,780
>> Sarah : And it also just. The way. The reason why I think

557
00:27:50,780 --> 00:27:54,140
this flashback episode works so well is because we

558
00:27:54,140 --> 00:27:56,940
just spent two episodes jumping timelines.

559
00:27:57,020 --> 00:27:57,500
>> Will: Yeah.

560
00:27:57,660 --> 00:28:00,820
>> Sarah : And that is exactly what we did here. It just was

561
00:28:00,820 --> 00:28:04,020
fully centered about him. And it's not like we

562
00:28:04,020 --> 00:28:07,460
haven't visited this timeline before. I mean.

563
00:28:07,460 --> 00:28:08,050
>> Will: Exactly.

564
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,520
>> Sarah : So. So it is just, it is adding more context.

565
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,040
>> Will: Yeah. It makes total.

566
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,520
>> Sarah : And even when we go into the future to 2026, it's

567
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,320
still hinted at with the line that you will never.

568
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,360
The only way you're gonna get this ring is if you

569
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:25,080
pry it out of my cold, dead hand.

570
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:30,090
>> Will: Yep, exactly. wink, wink. Yep. Yeah, there you go.

571
00:28:30,090 --> 00:28:32,930
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And yeah, but also too

572
00:28:32,930 --> 00:28:35,290
like, you know, it could really. This frames

573
00:28:35,370 --> 00:28:38,890
whenever we first while, you know, whenever, when,

574
00:28:39,050 --> 00:28:42,650
when Hal picks up John and you know, and, and the

575
00:28:42,650 --> 00:28:45,330
whole, the, the dynamics there in the, in the car,

576
00:28:45,330 --> 00:28:48,050
I mean, it just like adds a whole nother, whole

577
00:28:48,050 --> 00:28:50,010
nother level to it. And John's like, yeah, you

578
00:28:50,010 --> 00:28:52,690
know, I think he likes me. And you know, I think

579
00:28:52,690 --> 00:28:54,610
as far as looking at the bird, you know, and it

580
00:28:54,610 --> 00:28:57,450
deepens the bird, you know, part too, because,

581
00:28:57,530 --> 00:28:59,650
because, you know, like I said, and to your point,

582
00:28:59,650 --> 00:29:01,890
you know, a lot of people did not know, you know,

583
00:29:01,890 --> 00:29:03,490
that, you know, at least in the comics, that

584
00:29:03,490 --> 00:29:05,410
John's an architect. Here they just tweak it, make

585
00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:07,800
him an art school student. But, you know, but what

586
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,600
I talked about last week, as far as him

587
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,400
understanding the, you know, the deepness and the

588
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,800
taking things apart and rebuilding it, like when

589
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,720
the guardian asked him to, like, you know, sketch

590
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,800
the school, you know, it just added such depth to

591
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,160
it. And then of course, when they built the

592
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,360
construct with the watch, you know, again, it just

593
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,880
really gets you into, you know, just that simple

594
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,240
visual there with the, you know, in the 45 seconds

595
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,380
or so of that, it just helps, again, help visually

596
00:29:33,380 --> 00:29:37,900
show and also tell how John's mind works. And it

597
00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:40,900
adds to the point that Sinestro was making about

598
00:29:40,980 --> 00:29:44,060
why, you know, people, you know, why this

599
00:29:44,060 --> 00:29:46,740
character is so special and also why, you know,

600
00:29:46,820 --> 00:29:49,980
Anton was also really trying to, you know, get

601
00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:52,660
John on his side. So it's just so many things that

602
00:29:52,660 --> 00:29:56,100
this episode, those first two were sort of laying

603
00:29:56,100 --> 00:29:59,460
the table now, you know, now we fully understand

604
00:29:59,540 --> 00:30:02,180
who this character is. So now we can now move.

605
00:30:02,260 --> 00:30:05,520
Move forward in the story as far like, you really

606
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,840
exploring what else is to come. And. And then

607
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,040
also, you know, we do have the Guy Gardner of it

608
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,080
all, who's still out there.

609
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:12,840
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah.

610
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,760
>> Will: And how he, you know, how he ended up being the

611
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,240
Lantern. And then, you know, and also one of the

612
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,440
things too, just quickly going back to the Great

613
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,280
Wolf and the assassination attempt and how jumping

614
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,680
in something that, you know, we. We. That, you

615
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,280
know, was explored in Superman but also explored

616
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,440
in this episode too, is, you know, the Guardians

617
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,400
were not happy with how. Interfering with Earth,

618
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,590
you know, with Earth affairs as far as political,

619
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,280
political things. So will that come up in, in, in

620
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:36,800
this season?

621
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,360
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, I just. I'm glad you mentioned, like,

622
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,880
listen, that's Jostine because, like, we should

623
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,240
have known we were going to get a John centric

624
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,840
episode when in episode two ends with the last

625
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,560
words being like, who is Jon Stewart? And then

626
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,240
we're explained. I still have plenty of questions

627
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,160
about Jon Stewart. I still have plenty of

628
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,020
questions, but I also. I think it's done well

629
00:31:01,180 --> 00:31:04,580
because of not only the exploration of Jon

630
00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:07,740
Stewart, but we're starting to gather more

631
00:31:07,740 --> 00:31:11,340
information about the Guardians. Starting to

632
00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:13,860
gather more information about how. And because

633
00:31:13,860 --> 00:31:17,260
it's all perspective and so it's shaping the.

634
00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:22,380
It's. It informed so much about 2016, which is

635
00:31:22,380 --> 00:31:25,790
our, primary timeline or our primarily primary

636
00:31:25,790 --> 00:31:28,590
point in time, I should say that. That this series

637
00:31:28,590 --> 00:31:33,310
is focused on. So, so, yeah, I, I really enjoyed

638
00:31:33,310 --> 00:31:35,750
it. I think this was just. Shout out to the

639
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:38,940
editors. I think they did a fabulous job of, Ernie

640
00:31:38,940 --> 00:31:40,659
is a powerhouse. I mean, I know she was in

641
00:31:40,659 --> 00:31:42,540
Hamilton, so like, come on.

642
00:31:42,540 --> 00:31:44,460
>> Will: Yeah, just shout out to. Yeah, shout out her.

643
00:31:44,460 --> 00:31:46,180
Yeah, the scene where she looks at the Guardian,

644
00:31:46,180 --> 00:31:48,420
whatever, they're blue and stuff. I mean, you

645
00:31:48,420 --> 00:31:50,780
know, get to see, you know, everything, you know,

646
00:31:50,780 --> 00:31:52,500
shout out to that. Shout out to Stephen Williams

647
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:55,420
and, And. And who directed this episode. I know

648
00:31:55,420 --> 00:31:58,120
he' and should have led with this, but

649
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,440
representation matters because, you know, there

650
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,940
was such an authenticity to this story, as an. As

651
00:32:03,940 --> 00:32:06,820
an African American. And. But like I said, also

652
00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:10,580
there were some universal themes, too, so that I

653
00:32:10,580 --> 00:32:13,260
think no matter what your ethnic or racial

654
00:32:13,260 --> 00:32:15,460
background is, there's things in there that you

655
00:32:15,460 --> 00:32:17,500
can identify with. And I think that's the. That

656
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:20,140
was the genius of this episode. As. Yes, as we

657
00:32:20,140 --> 00:32:21,990
have an, interracial podcast discussion here.

658
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:23,550
You're a white female, I'm a black male. And

659
00:32:23,550 --> 00:32:25,910
we're. You know, there's so many. You know, we. We

660
00:32:25,910 --> 00:32:27,750
touched on it earlier. I mean, we. We identified,

661
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:30,430
like, some universal themes that regardless of

662
00:32:30,430 --> 00:32:32,430
your background and stuff, there's something there

663
00:32:32,430 --> 00:32:33,030
for everybody.

664
00:32:35,670 --> 00:32:38,310
>> Sarah : All right, well, on that note, Will, why don't you

665
00:32:38,310 --> 00:32:40,070
tell our listeners where they can find you?

666
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:42,870
>> Will: Yes, you can find me wherever you get your social

667
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:47,280
media at Will and Polk. W I, L L, M M P O L K And

668
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:47,520
you can

669
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,560
>> Sarah : find me there, too. J, B E L M M O N T. Please

670
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,960
follow crew on X, formerly known as Twitter. At

671
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,540
Scene N Nerd on bluesky. Friend us on Facebook,

672
00:32:55,540 --> 00:32:57,540
follow us on Instagram and threads, at Scene

673
00:32:57,540 --> 00:32:59,140
Unnerd and Visit our website,

674
00:32:59,220 --> 00:33:02,980
www.scenenerdpodcast.com. but most importantly,

675
00:33:02,980 --> 00:33:05,140
rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcast,

676
00:33:05,140 --> 00:33:07,420
Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcast. Good

677
00:33:07,420 --> 00:33:29,370
night, geek out. You're welcome. Sam m.