A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms Ep 6 & Paradise Season 2 Ep 1: The End and the Beginning

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>> Will: Foreign.

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>> Sarah : Nerds. This is Sandy Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah

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Belmont, and with me, as always, is our Mr.

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Producer, will Will Polk How are you doing

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tonight, Will.

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>> Will: Doing very well, Sarah How you doing this

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Wednesday evening?

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>> Sarah : Yeah, I'm, I'm doing good. I mean, we just got

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done discussing the fact that over the last few

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days I've re. Watched all of A Night of the Seven

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Kingdoms, and two hours ago I watched first. First

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episode of Paradise Season 2. So, yeah, that's, I

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don't know if I have necessary formulated thoughts

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about either, but to say that they are fresh in my

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mind is an understatement.

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>> Will: Yes, yes, Well, I, Yeah, I, I'm sure we will have

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excellent discussions about both shows and Yeah,

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and it's cool that you, did. Right. Rewatched all

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of season one of A Knight of Seven Kingdoms. I

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haven't had a chance to do the full rewatch yet,

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but, I'm very interested to see how, you know, now

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that you've watched it all, you know, all at once,

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binging it with your parents over the last few

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days, what your, what your overall impressions are

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of the series and now that we're here at the

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finale.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, absolutely. Night of the Seven Kingdoms,

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Season one, episode six, six the Morrow. As

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Ashford mourns a great loss, Doug considers his

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next move and whether to keep Egg as his squire.

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Will, what did he think about this episode?

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>> Will: So I will say that this episode truly was an

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epilogue and, and not in a bad way. I mean,

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sometimes it's. It. It. I, liked that this ending

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really did do a good job of just sort of wrapping

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up things for this first season. it was, you know,

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know, as someone who, with, with respect to, you

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know, the book versus the, the TV show, I liked

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how they took very. Really in a novella was only

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like about five pages or so, of what really was

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chronicled here, in. In this final episode. But

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they really expanded on it and, and just like they

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have done so all season, they've really. When

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they've added new material in the adaptation here

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on hbo, Max really felt like it just heightened

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and, and really expanded the story in a good way

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that it didn't take away from it. And so, so I

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think it. It both both worked and, and, and the,

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how Makear with how things played out in this show

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versus you pretty much track the things that we've

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learned about Egg and, and, and I like how. How it

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was ambiguous in the novella. It was also. It

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wasn't as ambiguous in the book. Excuse me, In a

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TV show. But. But I do like that they did.

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>> Sarah : What do you mean?

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>> Will: What's that?

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>> Sarah : What. What. What do you mean? What was ambiguous

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in the book? That.

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>> Will: So I. Yeah, so in the. So with the source

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material, it was never. Never directly said or not

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whether or not make our. Approved of Egg going

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with Duncan.

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>> Sarah : Oh, okay. Okay.

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>> Will: Yeah, yeah. They left it ambiguous. and even. Even

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in the show, it was kind of ambiguous until we got

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that mid credit. But. But it's totally. But I

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liked it. But I liked it because it just. It's

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just how we first met Egg, you know, running off

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from the Targaryens. He's still doing it now. And.

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And so I, really. I really like that. That mid

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credit because it's just like, oh, yeah, this is a

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character we've gotten into all season.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, he's a liar.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, he's very Targaryen, whether he likes it or

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not.

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>> Will: Exactly.

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>> Sarah : It's very interesting with him.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, I. I like that part. mainly because it just

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re. Emphasized something that has been known since

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the beginning. And it's interesting if you want to

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flip it. Dunk continues to fall for it. He. He

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didn't learn a lesson. He did not learn his lesson

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the first time around.

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>> Will: He.

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>> Sarah : Now granted, he did. Did. It does have the line in

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the finale, like, I think I'm done with princes.

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And then he's. He realizes the opportunity that's

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befallen on him and that this act of service might

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be exactly what the gods have in mind for the

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realm and. And all. But it's. It's also just like

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fool me wanting stunk. This might become a

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pattern. so. So Egg might. Might still be a little

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boy, but the kid knows how to lie. Okay. And in a

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way, I think part of it is also the fact that

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Makar does have that conversation with him where

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he does want him to. Or, he does want Egg to

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squire for. For Duncan and. Because he wants the

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kid to be a squire. But it's also. It's also the

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fact that, you know, it's not like make ours

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behind him waving goodbye. And there's a different

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conversation where. Where this whole idea Duncan

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comes up with about, okay, I will do this, but

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it'll be on my terms and it's gonna be the same

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way that I learned. And I love that line that

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make. Our maker stole this episode for me, by the

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way. and like. But away from his family and. And

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it's the thing that Duncan was not saying, but

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subconsciously he was saying that, like, yeah, if

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you want this one to turn out good, he has to be

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removed and isolated from the rest of you. And.

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And I think why. That plays into why Makar stole

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this episode for me. And it's because of this.

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This duality that. That was very highlighted in

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him, where on one hand, he's a Targaryen prude, a

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prick, and everything that we first meet alongside

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his brother. Without his brother, though, you

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start to see his humanity, which is him as a

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father.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : And. And his care and love for all of his

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children, but. But his also helplessness and. And

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they don't. They don't allude to. To his dead

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wife. I mean, I think that was the truth that Egg

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was telling. I, don't know for sure. I. I'm pretty

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sure it is. But it's also like this idea that

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another infamous line from this finale is, he's my

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last son.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Like, he's the last one. He's my last hope. He

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says it with such convention. It's so great. But,

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like, the. Also the fact that he leads that

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conversation. Sorry, I'm rambling. But he starts

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out that conversation with Dunk, by. By making

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sure he's aware I know Arian's a bastard, so I'm

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sending him to the East. Okay.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : Yeah. I'm. I'm gonna clear this kid over here

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because I'm aware of him. I. I can't do anything

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about Darren. Darren is. I, I'm still working

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through an Egg. I just know he needs to be a

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squire and he needs to learn from someone and.

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And, you know, he only wants to learn from you. So

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we. We could come to Summer Hall. But he's. He

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then witnesses Egg almost like, attempt to kill

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his brother Aryan. And that moment was. Was also

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so vivid and well done because. Because of the

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fact that we also start. Make our first line in

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this episode is really about Baylor and the fact

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that he knows everyone. Like, he's going to get

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the blame as well as Doug for Baylor's demise

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because he threw the chase. It was his chase that

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hit him. And. And so to then fast forward and then

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see the. The rivalry and the. The fractured

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relationship between Aryan and Egg come to this,

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it's just like, oh, man. I. I don't know what to

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do. They're supposed to love each other, but,

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they're both my sons. Like, I also can very much

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appreciate how. It's not like he's a bad father.

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>> Will: No.

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>> Sarah : Because he loves all of his sons. He just. We

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don't know as viewers what happened to Aryan. We.

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It's alluded to that there was a time when he was

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a good kid and then that fell to the wayside. So,

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the. The.

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>> Will: The.

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>> Sarah : The nature in which these boys are being raised is

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causing that more darker side of the Targaryen of

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the dragon to come out. That's what we're seeing.

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But I've. I've rambled enough and so Will, why

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don't you chime in with some.

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>> Will: Oh, no, no. I mean, I think. Yeah, you know, I

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think with. With respect to this. I mean, I think

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with, you know, Darren also, whenever they have

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that conversation, there at, Beesbury's funeral,

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and, you know, to that point, as far as the. The,

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See, you know, basically, you know, following up

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on the theme that, you know, Egg is Magar's last

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son. And yes, he has, you know, he definitely has

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the Targaryen traits that we. That we. We are very

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familiar with, but there is maybe some hope. And

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Darren also, you know, shares that with. With.

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With Dunk there. And you know, because they. They,

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Know, they. One thing they did change. They. They

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broke up this. The. The conversations that Dunk

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and. And Maar had with respect to, Egg becoming.

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Going to be a squire. So, so. So they add that,

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You know, they. They add that. That context they

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had conversation that he had with Darren to be

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like, hey, you know, maybe go back and you know,

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say, I'll take. I'll take, Egg on as. As my. As my

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squire. And then of course make our walks off.

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But, you know, I think it really does get the. It

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does get the, The point that you're making there

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is that, you know, there is still some hope for

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Egg and he definitely, you know, has to like, get

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away from the influences because as. As we saw,

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the. That. That. That Targaryen dragon bloodlust

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or whatever was, was, you know, had manifested

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itself in an egg and where he was. He was about to

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take out Aryan, and. And thankfully make our.

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Stopped him. And I think that also helped make her

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realize, like, yeah, he's got to get out of this

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place. If he's going to have any chance of being

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a, you know, not going down a dark path, he's

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gotta. He's gotta go.

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>> Sarah : Yeah, right. But he still is upset when he can't

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find the egg at the end.

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>> Will: Yeah. Because he didn't agree to it.

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>> Sarah : Right, right, right. So, like, I don't, I think I

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think what, it's not so much like, yeah, he's got

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to get out of here, but it's just like, how do I

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stop this? How do I stop. He knows Aryan's going

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to go to the east, so that's. That's his plan. He

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just has a limited period where they're still

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around each other. I have the exact quote from,

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the Darien exchange with Duncan. And he says, my

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brother wasn't always such a little monster. And

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then he clarifies that he's talking about Aryan.

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And then, because Dunk thinks he's talking about

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egg, he says, but no doubt will make a man of him,

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too. Perhaps the seeds of madness are sewn in the

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womb, as the maesters say. But Arion was the glad

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child once. He was liked fishing. The seeds of

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madness are swn in the womb. That two things. The

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word. The use of the word womb. And considering,

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like, if even if listeners are new here or if

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listeners have, like, come on board while we're

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watching House of Dragon Season 2, go back and

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really listen to our Season 1 I House of the

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Dragon discussions. Because that season had more

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childbirths than any other season of television, I

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swear to God.

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>> Will: Yeah.

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>> Sarah : And. And it's very. So. So I relate the word womb

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to that because we see so much of that and so much

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childbirth gone wrong in horrible circumstances.

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And the idea of lineage and legacy with. Within

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the Targaryen family that we know is very

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incestuous. Then on the flip side, madness. We all

242
00:13:47,180 --> 00:13:50,460
know about the Mad King, too, that is to come, and

243
00:13:50,460 --> 00:13:53,540
the reign of the Mad King. So I just. I. I love

244
00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:57,740
that line for the hints of the Targaryens in the

245
00:13:57,740 --> 00:14:00,220
past that we're aware of and the Targaryens in the

246
00:14:00,220 --> 00:14:04,630
future that we're aware of. it's just. It plays

247
00:14:04,630 --> 00:14:09,710
into the lore without, like, it's not necessarily

248
00:14:09,710 --> 00:14:13,550
an Easter egg. It's just a hint. And it's just

249
00:14:13,550 --> 00:14:17,230
this idea and this understanding that if you have

250
00:14:17,230 --> 00:14:23,870
been following this family's legacy, present, past

251
00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:27,870
and future, there is a trend.

252
00:14:28,510 --> 00:14:29,070
>> Will: Yeah.

253
00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:32,870
>> Sarah : And. And then it brings. And it's a very eloquent

254
00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:35,970
way with this dilemma. Is it nature? Is it

255
00:14:35,970 --> 00:14:39,570
nurture? Because there's another line earlier on,

256
00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:44,860
with. With Lionel or not with Lionel, but there's

257
00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:48,660
an A line earlier this season. Like, the best

258
00:14:48,660 --> 00:14:55,530
thing a Targaryen will ever do is. Is, go on. On

259
00:14:55,530 --> 00:14:59,180
the tits of the. Of the wife, so to speak. Sorry,

260
00:14:59,180 --> 00:15:01,180
I'm butchering that line. But we all know what I'm

261
00:15:01,180 --> 00:15:01,540
talking about.

262
00:15:01,540 --> 00:15:03,180
>> Will: Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. So.

263
00:15:03,340 --> 00:15:08,120
>> Sarah : So it' like we're. Dunk is mainly around people

264
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:15,240
who have emphasized the idea that all Targaryens

265
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,520
are de. Are bad and they're just born that way.

266
00:15:20,359 --> 00:15:24,960
And we in fact even start this episode on that

267
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,520
note. Now, granted, we also start this episode in

268
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,050
the wake of Baylor's death, the supposed good

269
00:15:33,690 --> 00:15:38,090
dragon. Right. Yet Lionel still says in this

270
00:15:38,090 --> 00:15:41,450
conversation with. That kicks off the episode with

271
00:15:41,450 --> 00:15:45,610
Dunk any. The only good dragon is a dead dragon.

272
00:15:46,090 --> 00:15:51,290
So Lionel doesn't even care about Baylor's death.

273
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,720
because he. No matter what, he's still a

274
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:55,480
Targaryen.

275
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:56,280
>> Will: Yeah.

276
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,850
>> Sarah : And that. And you know what has. Has Lionel put

277
00:15:59,850 --> 00:16:01,970
together the fact that Egg is a Targaryen?

278
00:16:02,850 --> 00:16:06,010
>> Will: I. You know, I don't think he. Well, let's see.

279
00:16:06,010 --> 00:16:08,570
I'm trying to think. The egghav had the target.

280
00:16:08,570 --> 00:16:13,090
The. The coat of arms on and some scenes.

281
00:16:13,330 --> 00:16:17,490
>> Sarah : I'm sure he. He's had. I'm sure once Dunk got

282
00:16:17,490 --> 00:16:21,610
thrown into jail. But he's still. He still managed

283
00:16:21,610 --> 00:16:25,090
to be convinced by Egg to come and join arms and

284
00:16:25,090 --> 00:16:28,990
defend Dunk. That's what he said during battle. So

285
00:16:29,470 --> 00:16:33,040
it's, I don't know how he feels about Egg. And I.

286
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,760
I would like to in future seasons to explore that

287
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,520
a little bit more, which I'm sure we will, because

288
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,080
it is a fascinating thing,

289
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:50,040
>> Sarah : that, that, that the family is so large and the

290
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,229
legacy is so long that we've seen good and bad.

291
00:16:54,229 --> 00:16:56,389
But then again, you can say that about any of

292
00:16:56,389 --> 00:17:00,589
these. Like the Barantians, they got some

293
00:17:00,589 --> 00:17:01,829
troublemakers in the future.

294
00:17:02,389 --> 00:17:04,149
>> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they do.

295
00:17:05,269 --> 00:17:08,710
>> Sarah : So, so it's But what. What are some of your

296
00:17:08,710 --> 00:17:12,070
thoughts about this opening scene between Lionel

297
00:17:12,070 --> 00:17:12,830
and Duncan?

298
00:17:13,470 --> 00:17:15,960
>> Will: Yeah, it was, You know, again, this is where the.

299
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,881
This was added and this was a. A, welcome ad

300
00:17:18,881 --> 00:17:21,112
because I think, you know, one of the things that

301
00:17:21,112 --> 00:17:24,152
this season also, you know, where we are in the

302
00:17:24,152 --> 00:17:27,232
history of Westeros is, you know, the dragons.

303
00:17:27,472 --> 00:17:30,472
Yes, they may be the House of the Dragon, but the

304
00:17:30,472 --> 00:17:33,352
dragons themselves are no longer around. So, you

305
00:17:33,352 --> 00:17:36,632
know, so the, The. The. The. The military oomph,

306
00:17:37,272 --> 00:17:42,152
behind the. The Targaryen dynasty is. Is not

307
00:17:42,152 --> 00:17:46,802
there. So I think people are more willing to like,

308
00:17:47,122 --> 00:17:51,852
say stuff about them. and, and so I think there

309
00:17:51,852 --> 00:17:54,092
was. There was that piece and I just really like

310
00:17:54,092 --> 00:17:56,412
Lionel as a character. I mean, as far as like, you

311
00:17:56,412 --> 00:17:58,572
know, you need that, you know. Yeah, he's kind of

312
00:17:58,572 --> 00:18:01,132
the bro, you know, as Far as, you know, he's very

313
00:18:01,132 --> 00:18:05,532
vivacious. Just a. Just a fun, you know, light

314
00:18:05,532 --> 00:18:09,892
character. But he's also. But he. But he also, you

315
00:18:09,892 --> 00:18:15,082
know, sees and Dunk, a. A. A valued person that,

316
00:18:15,082 --> 00:18:17,802
you know, that. That. That he will. That. That he

317
00:18:17,802 --> 00:18:22,242
literally fought for and. And. And. And. And so I.

318
00:18:22,322 --> 00:18:27,562
I've just really enjoyed seeing Lionel grow and

319
00:18:27,562 --> 00:18:29,482
being utilized in this story throughout the season

320
00:18:29,482 --> 00:18:31,882
because he was always there, whether it was a

321
00:18:31,882 --> 00:18:35,222
moment of. Of, you know, comic relief or if it was

322
00:18:35,222 --> 00:18:37,542
a moment there where he did have a key role. And,

323
00:18:37,542 --> 00:18:39,952
you know, I mean, you know, Raymond, whenever

324
00:18:39,952 --> 00:18:43,912
Dunk, like, hesitated there in the. In the. In the

325
00:18:43,912 --> 00:18:47,082
trial, he's always been a very key utility player

326
00:18:47,082 --> 00:18:49,522
for the story. It helps. It helps push the story

327
00:18:49,522 --> 00:18:53,322
along. Like. Like, as you were just saying, how he

328
00:18:53,322 --> 00:18:55,242
was just referencing, like, the only good dragon

329
00:18:55,242 --> 00:18:58,042
is a dead dragon, and it just really shows, like,

330
00:18:58,042 --> 00:19:00,522
you know, Dunk, I know you don't. Don't feel.

331
00:19:00,522 --> 00:19:03,402
Don't, don't. Don't shed too many tears for Balor,

332
00:19:03,682 --> 00:19:05,282
because at the end of the day, he still is a

333
00:19:05,282 --> 00:19:06,002
Targaryen.

334
00:19:07,922 --> 00:19:11,802
>> Sarah : So I agree with you. Like, Lionel is a great

335
00:19:11,802 --> 00:19:14,882
character because he provides levity, but

336
00:19:14,882 --> 00:19:20,602
simultaneously, he proves that he is almost the

337
00:19:20,602 --> 00:19:24,642
most aware character that we've met or Dunk has

338
00:19:25,122 --> 00:19:29,922
managed to meet. because during my rewatch, again,

339
00:19:30,002 --> 00:19:33,362
it goes back to the penultimate episode, which is

340
00:19:33,362 --> 00:19:36,362
classic Game of Thrones, where you're gonna have a

341
00:19:36,362 --> 00:19:40,202
penultimate episode that is so good that the

342
00:19:40,202 --> 00:19:46,082
finale is always gonna feel like an epilogue. That

343
00:19:46,082 --> 00:19:51,422
penultimate. and in that penultimate, he starts

344
00:19:51,422 --> 00:19:54,222
out the episode with Baylor rounding everybody up,

345
00:19:54,222 --> 00:19:57,432
telling them what to do on the battlefield. And

346
00:19:57,432 --> 00:19:59,912
that's where you have that whole exchange about

347
00:20:00,792 --> 00:20:06,192
mother loved you best. Well, it's fleshed out,

348
00:20:06,192 --> 00:20:11,272
really, what Lionel was getting at in this opening

349
00:20:11,272 --> 00:20:16,372
exchange with Duncan, where he says, like, where

350
00:20:16,372 --> 00:20:20,412
he says, your prince fought for you against men

351
00:20:20,412 --> 00:20:21,952
who are sworn to protect him.

352
00:20:22,102 --> 00:20:22,262
>> Will: Him.

353
00:20:22,262 --> 00:20:26,022
>> Sarah : He risks nothing. And gods do not favor a fraud.

354
00:20:26,502 --> 00:20:29,582
Yeah, that was alluded to at the beginning of the

355
00:20:29,582 --> 00:20:32,742
episode. And I think. And I know we talked about

356
00:20:32,742 --> 00:20:36,502
that, but I don't think we really fell into that

357
00:20:36,502 --> 00:20:40,742
discussion about, is Baylor. Like, was that right

358
00:20:40,742 --> 00:20:44,902
or wrong? And. And is that. Is that ultimately

359
00:20:45,302 --> 00:20:49,142
what led to his demise? Like, that decision to use

360
00:20:49,142 --> 00:20:54,392
that advantage in his favor only to then be hit in

361
00:20:54,392 --> 00:21:01,232
the head with a mace? So. So it's. It's. It's very

362
00:21:01,232 --> 00:21:05,872
good. And simultaneously, that also leads into

363
00:21:06,272 --> 00:21:13,152
something that has been a subtle story point for,

364
00:21:14,002 --> 00:21:18,522
For Duncan in this entire Six episodes. And it's

365
00:21:18,522 --> 00:21:22,572
this idea. Is he a knight or is he not a knight?

366
00:21:22,572 --> 00:21:23,772
>> Will: Yeah, yeah.

367
00:21:25,052 --> 00:21:30,492
>> Sarah : And. And so. And he. And that's alluded to because

368
00:21:30,732 --> 00:21:35,092
Dunk's response to Lionel is, well, then why do

369
00:21:35,092 --> 00:21:39,772
they favor me? Because if. If Baylor's a fraud,

370
00:21:41,132 --> 00:21:45,532
I'm kind of a fraud. He doesn't knight that guy

371
00:21:46,012 --> 00:21:49,932
in, as you. As you've mentioned. And then we see

372
00:21:50,172 --> 00:21:53,552
remnants of knighted, and we're like, I don't

373
00:21:53,552 --> 00:21:56,462
really know. But, you know, the more I think about

374
00:21:56,462 --> 00:22:02,862
it, I. Because it's also there. There's a scene

375
00:22:02,862 --> 00:22:06,072
between Arnold and, And Duncan where he asks,

376
00:22:06,072 --> 00:22:09,152
like, why did you never knight me? I don't know

377
00:22:09,232 --> 00:22:12,492
if, if Arnold was ever knighted.

378
00:22:13,932 --> 00:22:14,652
>> Will: Arlen.

379
00:22:15,132 --> 00:22:16,892
>> Sarah : Arlen was ever knighted.

380
00:22:18,832 --> 00:22:21,792
>> Will: it's, you know, it's. That's a very good point. I.

381
00:22:22,672 --> 00:22:25,712
He made. You know, these are all Hedge nights.

382
00:22:26,202 --> 00:22:28,642
>> Sarah : and Steve is a father, you know.

383
00:22:28,642 --> 00:22:32,632
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. it's very. It's. It's very possible

384
00:22:32,872 --> 00:22:37,912
that he, you know, there. But Eve. But I think

385
00:22:38,072 --> 00:22:41,602
even if they weren't like, formally knighted, I

386
00:22:41,602 --> 00:22:44,682
think they. I think the thing. Both Arlen and

387
00:22:44,682 --> 00:22:51,002
Duncan do aspire to the nightly code and the

388
00:22:51,002 --> 00:22:52,242
nightly. The things that.

389
00:22:53,122 --> 00:22:54,802
>> Sarah : Oh, absolutely, yeah.

390
00:22:54,802 --> 00:22:57,522
>> Will: So where these highborn or these noblemen, these

391
00:22:57,522 --> 00:23:00,562
quote unquote noblemen who, you know, aren't so

392
00:23:00,562 --> 00:23:03,442
noble, as we saw earlier in this season, where

393
00:23:03,762 --> 00:23:06,362
they were trying to, like, you know, get dumped to

394
00:23:06,362 --> 00:23:09,782
take, you know, take a dive or, you know, you

395
00:23:09,782 --> 00:23:12,542
know, and try to fix the matches. So even among

396
00:23:12,542 --> 00:23:16,142
these. These noblemen, they're not. They're not,

397
00:23:16,142 --> 00:23:18,422
you know, they don't have clean hands or don't

398
00:23:18,422 --> 00:23:20,782
even aspire to, like, what it means to be at

399
00:23:20,782 --> 00:23:23,762
night. you know, I think Dunk, on the other hand,

400
00:23:24,961 --> 00:23:27,962
to that point of, like, if, you know, if. If in

401
00:23:27,962 --> 00:23:32,092
fact he wasn't properly knighted by Arlen, you

402
00:23:32,092 --> 00:23:34,092
know, he's still. He's, you know, he's. He's still

403
00:23:34,092 --> 00:23:36,482
trying to constantly prove himself to everyone

404
00:23:36,482 --> 00:23:38,842
that, yes, I am a knight, even though I may have

405
00:23:38,842 --> 00:23:41,442
not had the official blessing.

406
00:23:42,372 --> 00:23:44,452
>> Sarah : even though he feels like an imposter.

407
00:23:44,772 --> 00:23:47,732
>> Will: Oh, yeah, the imposter syndrome was always that.

408
00:23:47,732 --> 00:23:49,732
You know, it's been there through. You know, that

409
00:23:49,732 --> 00:23:52,012
was a theme throughout that we've talked about

410
00:23:52,012 --> 00:23:55,522
here on the pod. with respect. With respect to

411
00:23:55,522 --> 00:23:58,482
Duncan and. And then also something you brought up

412
00:23:58,482 --> 00:24:02,252
last week that. That I thought about, with. With

413
00:24:02,252 --> 00:24:05,962
respect to the gods and everything. and. And

414
00:24:05,962 --> 00:24:09,122
whether or not, you know, you know, we, we talked

415
00:24:09,122 --> 00:24:13,192
about, was it fate? As far as, you know, Duncan's

416
00:24:14,282 --> 00:24:16,322
You know, he's always feeling like bad things

417
00:24:16,322 --> 00:24:20,522
happen around him. And is it, you know, is that

418
00:24:20,522 --> 00:24:24,082
because of the, the, the, the. The fruit of the

419
00:24:24,082 --> 00:24:27,052
original sin, the original lie that, you know,

420
00:24:27,052 --> 00:24:30,102
that the fact of the matter is, you know, I, you

421
00:24:30,102 --> 00:24:34,132
know, wasn't properly united. but I've carried on

422
00:24:34,132 --> 00:24:37,532
this charade throughout this whole thing even

423
00:24:37,532 --> 00:24:39,772
though I didn't have anyone to vouch for me

424
00:24:40,092 --> 00:24:42,252
whenever he first went to try to get on the list.

425
00:24:43,142 --> 00:24:47,142
but, you know, because he's like carried that sin

426
00:24:47,222 --> 00:24:50,142
around as far as, you know, lying about the fact

427
00:24:50,142 --> 00:24:52,902
that he was knighted even though, yes, he won. You

428
00:24:52,902 --> 00:24:55,982
know, he was able to come out of the. The gods

429
00:24:55,982 --> 00:25:00,222
quote unquote favored him. As far as the, the, the

430
00:25:00,222 --> 00:25:04,982
trial, the penance that happened is the. The heir

431
00:25:04,982 --> 00:25:08,582
apparent to the crown gets mer, you know, gets

432
00:25:08,582 --> 00:25:10,982
killed. And you know, all these bad things happen,

433
00:25:11,142 --> 00:25:13,262
you know, around Duncan that he's always worried

434
00:25:13,262 --> 00:25:14,902
about because he's like trying to cover up this

435
00:25:14,902 --> 00:25:15,302
lie.

436
00:25:16,182 --> 00:25:20,302
>> Sarah : Right, right, absolutely. But you could also make

437
00:25:20,302 --> 00:25:26,222
the argument that Baylor's demise came from his

438
00:25:26,222 --> 00:25:31,702
own fraudulent behavior as well as Eggs. Yeah,

439
00:25:31,942 --> 00:25:34,982
like, they're like. That's, that's the beauty of

440
00:25:34,982 --> 00:25:37,622
Game of Thrones is that these characters tend

441
00:25:37,622 --> 00:25:40,662
never to be one sided. I think it's kind of

442
00:25:40,822 --> 00:25:44,982
cliche, that whole line about Dunk thinking like,

443
00:25:45,622 --> 00:25:48,622
oh, don't come near me. I'm. I'm. You're just

444
00:25:48,622 --> 00:25:53,042
gonna end up like this is no good. I. I just wreak

445
00:25:53,042 --> 00:25:59,642
habit. I think it's more interesting that it's

446
00:25:59,642 --> 00:26:03,002
the, the fortune and the misfortune of these two

447
00:26:03,002 --> 00:26:08,942
characters who just so happen to both be lying m

448
00:26:08,942 --> 00:26:13,122
inner. Like their lies intersect in a way that

449
00:26:13,282 --> 00:26:19,832
allow. Allow what they really desire to. To

450
00:26:19,832 --> 00:26:23,992
ultimately become fruitful because. Because Egg's

451
00:26:23,992 --> 00:26:26,242
been very clear. He. This whole time he's he's

452
00:26:26,242 --> 00:26:29,482
wanted a squire for someone. Darren. He can't.

453
00:26:29,722 --> 00:26:32,962
Darren like has no interest in it, so he can't be

454
00:26:32,962 --> 00:26:35,162
a squire for Darren and.

455
00:26:35,242 --> 00:26:35,642
>> Will: Right.

456
00:26:35,722 --> 00:26:39,802
>> Sarah : And so he needs to. So he's lying his way into

457
00:26:39,802 --> 00:26:42,182
getting what he wants. The same same. And into

458
00:26:42,182 --> 00:26:46,382
this role that he wants and desires while Dunk is

459
00:26:46,382 --> 00:26:48,982
doing the same thing. It just so happens that they

460
00:26:48,982 --> 00:26:53,502
intersect in a way I. With Baylor's whole demise.

461
00:26:54,382 --> 00:27:00,182
Yeah. I think both of them. Like that just adds.

462
00:27:00,182 --> 00:27:04,502
But I like the idea more that it was his demise

463
00:27:04,502 --> 00:27:07,982
was a result of his own actions and behavior.

464
00:27:08,952 --> 00:27:11,112
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. And it goes to like Too. When you

465
00:27:11,112 --> 00:27:14,782
think whenever Dunk gives, his condolences to, to

466
00:27:14,782 --> 00:27:18,272
Valar, Whenever. Yeah, whenever, you know, why did

467
00:27:18,272 --> 00:27:20,152
the gods take him and leave you? I mean that I

468
00:27:20,152 --> 00:27:23,272
think your point there about Baylor's potential

469
00:27:23,672 --> 00:27:25,312
and, and what we've talked about with Lionel too,

470
00:27:25,312 --> 00:27:28,272
as far as who's the fraud here, you know, so maybe

471
00:27:28,272 --> 00:27:30,992
that answers that question that, you know, that

472
00:27:30,992 --> 00:27:33,482
rhetorical question of Villar threw out there as

473
00:27:33,482 --> 00:27:36,802
far as why, you know, my father's gone, but you,

474
00:27:37,042 --> 00:27:41,792
Mr. Mr. Knight, got to, Got to live. So, I mean,

475
00:27:41,872 --> 00:27:43,432
yeah, to your point, I mean, I think that's the

476
00:27:43,432 --> 00:27:45,952
beautiful thing about, about this, this series is

477
00:27:45,952 --> 00:27:48,432
like there's no one with entirely clean hands.

478
00:27:53,392 --> 00:27:53,952
>> Sarah : Yeah.

479
00:27:54,032 --> 00:27:54,912
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

480
00:27:56,452 --> 00:27:58,212
>> Sarah : anything else you want to touch on?

481
00:28:00,112 --> 00:28:02,192
>> Will: I, I, you know, I think we've, I think we've

482
00:28:02,192 --> 00:28:05,322
covered most, most of the, most of the things. I

483
00:28:05,322 --> 00:28:08,002
mean, I did like the, I did like that Raymond got

484
00:28:08,002 --> 00:28:11,482
to get, you know, the relationship between Raymond

485
00:28:11,482 --> 00:28:13,482
and, and Dunk was like, really exploring. And

486
00:28:13,482 --> 00:28:17,592
Raymond, hooked up with, with Rowan, the ah,

487
00:28:17,592 --> 00:28:20,082
prostitute from, from way at the beginning. And

488
00:28:20,082 --> 00:28:22,802
Dunk, Dunk did, did him a solid there where he

489
00:28:22,802 --> 00:28:24,202
just like, you know, because she was like, I'm

490
00:28:24,202 --> 00:28:27,062
pregnant. And Uncle's like, I'll just like, met.

491
00:28:27,062 --> 00:28:29,542
But he didn't like, you know, didn't like blow up

492
00:28:29,942 --> 00:28:33,462
Raymond's marriage, quote unquote, you know, his

493
00:28:33,462 --> 00:28:35,222
marriage to her and stuff. So that was a nice

494
00:28:35,222 --> 00:28:37,342
little touch. And then, you know, that the last

495
00:28:37,342 --> 00:28:41,742
thing was just whatever that whenever, Duncan Egg

496
00:28:41,742 --> 00:28:45,702
were. Were going on, off on their next adventures

497
00:28:45,702 --> 00:28:49,802
and you know, just the scene of, Arlen, you know,

498
00:28:50,282 --> 00:28:53,122
peeling off. I thought that was a nice touch too,

499
00:28:53,122 --> 00:28:55,882
just to like, okay, now this truly is like, okay,

500
00:28:55,882 --> 00:28:59,802
this journey's ended with Arlen and, and Dunk and

501
00:28:59,802 --> 00:29:04,542
Egg are on, on their way to do, you know, their

502
00:29:04,542 --> 00:29:07,102
next adventures, you know, and obviously It'll be

503
00:29:07,102 --> 00:29:09,782
seasons two and three and many, many more since

504
00:29:09,782 --> 00:29:12,142
George R.R. martin says there's like you know, 10

505
00:29:12,142 --> 00:29:14,742
or 12 stories with these characters, even though

506
00:29:14,742 --> 00:29:16,502
we're still waiting for her to win the winner.

507
00:29:18,582 --> 00:29:22,662
>> Sarah : Yep. Yep. We're off to Dorn in season two. All

508
00:29:22,662 --> 00:29:22,982
right.

509
00:29:23,462 --> 00:29:25,782
>> Will: Well. Yeah, so. Well, okay, I won't say anything.

510
00:29:26,502 --> 00:29:28,702
Yeah, that. Well, there are, there are some nice

511
00:29:28,702 --> 00:29:31,302
puppet shows in Dorne and I will leave it at that.

512
00:29:34,502 --> 00:29:34,952
Cool.

513
00:29:34,952 --> 00:29:37,732
>> Sarah : all right, so that brings us to paradise. Season

514
00:29:37,732 --> 00:29:41,212
2, Episode 1 Graceland Annie is a tour guide in

515
00:29:41,212 --> 00:29:43,372
Memphis, Texas. Thomas, Tennessee. When the world

516
00:29:43,372 --> 00:29:46,212
ends, her survival in the ensuing years after the

517
00:29:46,212 --> 00:29:49,812
day is revealed, as well as her encountered with a

518
00:29:49,812 --> 00:29:52,332
traveling group of survivors. Will, what did you

519
00:29:52,332 --> 00:29:53,492
think about this episode?

520
00:29:54,292 --> 00:29:58,482
>> Will: Yeah, so, you know, I have to say, this was not

521
00:29:58,482 --> 00:30:01,242
quite what I expected as far as just kicking off,

522
00:30:02,152 --> 00:30:05,772
the, the season. But it was not a bad thing since,

523
00:30:06,912 --> 00:30:09,872
to me it made sense to like, start this way

524
00:30:10,032 --> 00:30:13,112
because, you know, we gotta set up things for, for

525
00:30:13,112 --> 00:30:15,552
life outside the bunker and what's going to happen

526
00:30:15,552 --> 00:30:18,592
in the second season. So, you know, because we

527
00:30:18,592 --> 00:30:21,312
already know about, you know, obviously those

528
00:30:21,312 --> 00:30:23,432
characters and where, you know, the folks in

529
00:30:23,432 --> 00:30:26,472
Colorado are. But it was nice to, you know, get an

530
00:30:26,472 --> 00:30:29,512
introduction to one of the, you know, two of the

531
00:30:29,512 --> 00:30:33,642
key characters that we're going to be, having

532
00:30:34,762 --> 00:30:38,722
stories about this season with Annie and Link and,

533
00:30:38,722 --> 00:30:41,242
and just basically, you know, using this first

534
00:30:41,242 --> 00:30:43,722
episode as a way to just sort of set that up, but

535
00:30:43,722 --> 00:30:48,762
also still had had ties back to the, to what we

536
00:30:49,562 --> 00:30:54,492
seen in the first season, and how things, how life

537
00:30:54,492 --> 00:30:59,022
was for other people outside of, of the bunker and

538
00:30:59,022 --> 00:31:02,462
other characters when the day happened when, when,

539
00:31:02,462 --> 00:31:06,782
when the world ended. So I, I, I, I was, it was a

540
00:31:07,902 --> 00:31:10,382
positive. I thought that was some good things,

541
00:31:10,382 --> 00:31:13,022
negative. There were some things that, that were a

542
00:31:13,022 --> 00:31:16,302
little predictable which, you know. But again,

543
00:31:16,462 --> 00:31:18,382
overall, I like the first episode.

544
00:31:21,182 --> 00:31:25,782
>> Sarah : Yeah, I, I just guess I will just say that, I know

545
00:31:25,782 --> 00:31:28,862
why they dropped all three episodes at once.

546
00:31:30,302 --> 00:31:34,742
because it's, I don't know if paradise will ever

547
00:31:34,742 --> 00:31:38,542
come out with an episode that hits me the way the

548
00:31:38,542 --> 00:31:45,822
pilot episode does and my enamoredness. So, and,

549
00:31:45,822 --> 00:31:49,042
and it's hard not to compare because they were

550
00:31:49,042 --> 00:31:52,122
both for the first episodes of the season to kick

551
00:31:52,122 --> 00:31:57,232
off things. while I was, I had so much to say with

552
00:31:57,552 --> 00:32:00,392
that one episode and I know last year they dropped

553
00:32:00,392 --> 00:32:05,842
the first three as well at once. this season, this

554
00:32:05,842 --> 00:32:08,722
episode, it's a good standalone episode. It's a

555
00:32:08,722 --> 00:32:10,842
good starter point. It's very much like a

556
00:32:10,842 --> 00:32:14,012
prologue, because they are introducing new

557
00:32:14,012 --> 00:32:18,122
characters to us and specifically Annie. I mean,

558
00:32:18,122 --> 00:32:22,432
Link is very much a side note on this. he's gonna

559
00:32:22,432 --> 00:32:24,992
become more fleshed out as season go, I'm sure.

560
00:32:25,552 --> 00:32:35,322
But I, Overall I was just like, okay, next, can we

561
00:32:35,322 --> 00:32:38,242
just, can we get. And it's, there's, there's

562
00:32:38,242 --> 00:32:42,002
nothing wrong with this episode. It's just, it's,

563
00:32:42,002 --> 00:32:45,122
I have very ironically or very similar thoughts

564
00:32:45,122 --> 00:32:47,202
that I did about the first season of the Night of

565
00:32:47,202 --> 00:32:52,402
Seven Kingdoms. Like, it's a fine episode, but I'm

566
00:32:52,402 --> 00:32:58,202
also there, there Isn't a whole lot where I found

567
00:32:58,202 --> 00:33:02,892
a lot of nuance, and a lot of like, oh, I can't

568
00:33:02,892 --> 00:33:05,572
wait to have like a half hour discussion with Will

569
00:33:05,572 --> 00:33:08,172
about this, this, this, this, this, this. It's

570
00:33:08,172 --> 00:33:10,212
like, yeah, that was a decent episode of

571
00:33:10,212 --> 00:33:10,812
television.

572
00:33:12,412 --> 00:33:16,202
>> Will: Yeah. So, let me just ask. So you said that with.

573
00:33:16,202 --> 00:33:18,162
You felt that way about a Knight of Seven Kingdoms

574
00:33:18,162 --> 00:33:21,282
or you felt that way About Paradise Season 1?

575
00:33:21,842 --> 00:33:23,762
>> Sarah : No, I felt that way about a Knight of the Seven

576
00:33:23,762 --> 00:33:24,322
Kingdoms.

577
00:33:24,642 --> 00:33:29,282
>> Will: Okay. Okay. Just want to be. Okay, got it.

578
00:33:33,132 --> 00:33:36,132
>> Sarah : I'm just gonna go straight. Straight almost to the

579
00:33:36,132 --> 00:33:37,532
end. And I just have one question.

580
00:33:38,012 --> 00:33:38,492
>> Will: Yeah.

581
00:33:38,572 --> 00:33:43,932
>> Sarah : Is Alex Sinatra or do we know who Alex is?

582
00:33:45,692 --> 00:33:46,332
>> Will: Alex.

583
00:33:46,712 --> 00:33:49,992
>> Sarah : Okay, and, and here's the line that it comes from.

584
00:33:50,152 --> 00:33:53,622
And why I ask is because, there's an exchange.

585
00:33:53,622 --> 00:33:54,942
>> Will: Oh, yeah, yeah, no talk.

586
00:33:54,942 --> 00:33:58,382
>> Sarah : Tiger and Link and they, they're, they're alluding

587
00:33:58,382 --> 00:34:01,771
to this plan of what they're gonna do. And guy

588
00:34:01,771 --> 00:34:03,891
here says, we gotta get to the bunker. We gotta

589
00:34:03,891 --> 00:34:08,131
get inside and kill Alex. So my first thought is,

590
00:34:08,771 --> 00:34:13,171
is Alex Sinatra? But then I question it because I

591
00:34:13,171 --> 00:34:17,091
don't really remember what her real name is. And

592
00:34:17,331 --> 00:34:21,331
then I start to wonder, well, have I met Alex yet?

593
00:34:21,331 --> 00:34:23,771
And I didn't know if that stood out to you and if

594
00:34:23,771 --> 00:34:24,051
you.

595
00:34:24,051 --> 00:34:27,931
>> Will: Yeah, I did. It did. It did stand out to me. As

596
00:34:27,931 --> 00:34:31,982
far as like the question of who, who is Alex? For

597
00:34:31,982 --> 00:34:35,352
sure. and as far as Sinatra's first name, you

598
00:34:35,352 --> 00:34:38,392
know, I have to, you know, I, I did re. Watch the

599
00:34:38,392 --> 00:34:41,322
first season, but it was it's been about probably

600
00:34:41,322 --> 00:34:44,161
four or five months ago now, so I don't recall if

601
00:34:44,161 --> 00:34:47,982
her first name was mentioned or not. but you know,

602
00:34:47,982 --> 00:34:51,702
the other, other candidates for Alex could be, you

603
00:34:51,702 --> 00:34:54,192
know, the scientists who helped to build the,

604
00:34:54,672 --> 00:34:58,332
build the facility. or it could be somebody, it

605
00:34:58,332 --> 00:35:00,962
could be some, someone else, that, you know, that,

606
00:35:00,962 --> 00:35:03,082
you know, that's the thing about this show. I mean

607
00:35:03,082 --> 00:35:06,322
they do have some mystery boxes and maybe that's

608
00:35:06,322 --> 00:35:07,842
just. That's going to be the one for, for this

609
00:35:07,842 --> 00:35:10,922
season. Because, you know, obviously the, in the

610
00:35:10,922 --> 00:35:13,922
first season it was trying to figure out who was

611
00:35:13,922 --> 00:35:16,602
the individual who, who, who assassinated the

612
00:35:16,602 --> 00:35:16,882
president.

613
00:35:16,882 --> 00:35:19,952
>> Sarah : So, among other things.

614
00:35:20,432 --> 00:35:23,512
>> Will: Among other things. But. Yeah, but that was the,

615
00:35:23,512 --> 00:35:26,072
that was the, that was the, the season long, you

616
00:35:26,072 --> 00:35:28,392
know, plot point that, yeah, we were trying to

617
00:35:28,392 --> 00:35:31,432
figure out. So maybe that, that, that is the, that

618
00:35:31,432 --> 00:35:33,791
is what we are going to be trying to figure out,

619
00:35:34,592 --> 00:35:38,072
you know, this season as far as, with, with, with

620
00:35:38,072 --> 00:35:41,772
Link's group is who, you know, who Alex is and,

621
00:35:41,772 --> 00:35:46,672
and why he or she is, is so critic. Why this group

622
00:35:46,672 --> 00:35:48,072
wants to, to, to kill them.

623
00:35:48,952 --> 00:35:50,152
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah,

624
00:35:52,152 --> 00:35:53,592
>> Will: because I mean, it's, you know, Alex, I mean it

625
00:35:53,592 --> 00:35:55,352
could be Alexandra, it could be Alexander.

626
00:35:55,432 --> 00:35:59,352
>> Sarah : I, I, I understand. What I was going to say though

627
00:35:59,352 --> 00:36:02,552
is there, there's also an illusion to there is

628
00:36:02,552 --> 00:36:06,512
something, not someone in there like, that we

629
00:36:06,512 --> 00:36:09,512
don't know about that is like really dangerous.

630
00:36:09,672 --> 00:36:14,032
Link tries to explain, but he also thinks Annie's

631
00:36:14,032 --> 00:36:16,712
not smart enough to understand, so he's not going

632
00:36:16,712 --> 00:36:18,672
to go into details. And then they have a joke

633
00:36:18,672 --> 00:36:20,112
about Jaws, I think.

634
00:36:20,112 --> 00:36:20,472
>> Will: Right.

635
00:36:21,582 --> 00:36:25,582
>> Sarah : so, so I, what I'm getting at is I don't know if

636
00:36:25,582 --> 00:36:33,502
there's multiple like this, this rag tag crew may

637
00:36:33,502 --> 00:36:35,822
have different motivations. Like one of them

638
00:36:35,822 --> 00:36:38,732
really needs to kill Alex for one reason or

639
00:36:38,732 --> 00:36:42,612
another, and then the other one, like Link is

640
00:36:42,612 --> 00:36:45,892
trying to get this thing that is the destroyer of

641
00:36:45,892 --> 00:36:50,092
worlds, that is in, in that bunker. The, the other

642
00:36:50,332 --> 00:36:54,052
thing about this. And, and like I said at the top

643
00:36:54,052 --> 00:36:57,012
of the show, I only watched this two hours ago, so

644
00:36:57,012 --> 00:37:01,492
I, I didn't really go back and figure this out in

645
00:37:01,492 --> 00:37:05,482
terms of timeline, but we know from season one

646
00:37:06,042 --> 00:37:11,162
that there were people who managed to get close to

647
00:37:11,162 --> 00:37:12,042
the bunker.

648
00:37:12,602 --> 00:37:13,162
>> Will: Yeah.

649
00:37:14,122 --> 00:37:18,242
>> Sarah : And there were people who left the bunker to kind

650
00:37:18,242 --> 00:37:21,882
of go meet some of these people and then all those

651
00:37:21,882 --> 00:37:25,082
people were wiped out. So I guess in terms of

652
00:37:25,082 --> 00:37:32,852
timeline. Links. Lincoln Cruz, departure from

653
00:37:33,332 --> 00:37:39,772
Memphis M. How, how does that correspond with the

654
00:37:39,772 --> 00:37:42,132
events of season one in the bunker?

655
00:37:44,212 --> 00:37:50,452
>> Will: So I think so day 689, you know, we didn't get a

656
00:37:50,452 --> 00:37:53,532
sense as far as we did get a sense

657
00:37:53,532 --> 00:37:55,572
>> Sarah : how long they were there, how long they were

658
00:37:55,572 --> 00:37:55,732
there.

659
00:37:55,732 --> 00:37:59,822
>> Will: I think they were there for, you know, you know,

660
00:38:00,222 --> 00:38:05,432
several, maybe a few weeks for sure. and, and, and

661
00:38:05,432 --> 00:38:09,662
so I think what, so I think what we were seeing

662
00:38:09,662 --> 00:38:13,102
transpire in Memphis was probably the last, the

663
00:38:13,102 --> 00:38:15,222
back half of season one.

664
00:38:16,742 --> 00:38:21,662
>> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. Because by the end of it we see, we

665
00:38:21,662 --> 00:38:25,902
hear the plane crash and at that point Link has

666
00:38:25,902 --> 00:38:28,862
probably been gone, what, six months, seven

667
00:38:28,862 --> 00:38:29,222
months?

668
00:38:29,702 --> 00:38:30,902
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah.

669
00:38:30,902 --> 00:38:34,662
>> Sarah : Well, yeah, based on how pregnant Annie is.

670
00:38:34,982 --> 00:38:37,022
>> Will: Right, right. So, yeah, so that gives you the

671
00:38:37,022 --> 00:38:38,702
clues as far as time, but because of her

672
00:38:38,702 --> 00:38:42,542
pregnancy. Yeah. So, yeah, so I think we're

673
00:38:42,542 --> 00:38:46,502
probably, yeah, so, yeah, we're seeing a good

674
00:38:46,502 --> 00:38:49,632
chunk of like, yeah, probably six to nine months,

675
00:38:49,792 --> 00:38:54,112
six to seven months before whenever they first,

676
00:38:54,432 --> 00:38:56,712
they first get there and then you give, you know,

677
00:38:56,712 --> 00:39:00,712
give a few, about a month maybe of Anne and Link,

678
00:39:00,712 --> 00:39:04,262
you know, Getting closer. yeah, I think that that

679
00:39:04,262 --> 00:39:05,302
makes sense. Yeah.

680
00:39:05,622 --> 00:39:09,462
>> Sarah : Interesting. Very interesting.

681
00:39:12,192 --> 00:39:16,172
>> Sarah : yeah, I, I, What did you think about Link and

682
00:39:16,172 --> 00:39:17,172
Annie together?

683
00:39:18,632 --> 00:39:21,272
>> Will: Thought they definitely, so thought they had.

684
00:39:21,272 --> 00:39:23,502
Definitely had chemistry. you know, they,

685
00:39:23,532 --> 00:39:27,962
Whenever, Whenever, of course, the, the Lincoln is

686
00:39:27,962 --> 00:39:32,002
group showed up. You know, the, you know, the, the

687
00:39:32,802 --> 00:39:35,402
story, the story usually could go one of two ways.

688
00:39:35,402 --> 00:39:40,162
It could go, you know, the, the Marauder gang

689
00:39:40,162 --> 00:39:42,482
that's coming into like, you know, pillage and do

690
00:39:42,482 --> 00:39:45,202
bad things or, you know, or what, you know, and,

691
00:39:45,442 --> 00:39:49,402
and it pivoted to this way where it's like, no, we

692
00:39:49,402 --> 00:39:54,382
are a bunch of nerds who are, basically trying to.

693
00:39:55,182 --> 00:39:58,302
Given that we, we do know that many people did

694
00:39:58,302 --> 00:40:03,862
survive the, the nuclear attacks and the MPG and,

695
00:40:03,862 --> 00:40:07,172
and, you know, and, and all that, just trying to,

696
00:40:07,172 --> 00:40:09,172
you know, save the, you know, keep the power

697
00:40:09,172 --> 00:40:11,492
plants from, from, from melting down so that, you

698
00:40:11,492 --> 00:40:13,412
know, humanity can like, have a second chance,

699
00:40:13,982 --> 00:40:17,362
that, that Cal had intended to happen. I, I

700
00:40:17,362 --> 00:40:19,202
really, I like that aspect of the story.

701
00:40:20,002 --> 00:40:21,922
>> Sarah : How much do you think of that as true?

702
00:40:23,282 --> 00:40:25,921
>> Will: I think, I think the nerd group, I like. I think

703
00:40:25,921 --> 00:40:27,722
you're, I think you're right. I think there are

704
00:40:27,722 --> 00:40:31,722
multiple motivations that are going on here. So I

705
00:40:31,722 --> 00:40:35,522
think, I think some of them are indeed going to,

706
00:40:35,522 --> 00:40:38,312
you know, there are doing that because, I mean,

707
00:40:38,552 --> 00:40:40,632
you did see some, you know, they were taking a

708
00:40:40,632 --> 00:40:43,512
potassium iodide. So that is for, you know,

709
00:40:43,992 --> 00:40:47,672
exposure to radiation. And so I think that that

710
00:40:47,672 --> 00:40:51,232
aspect of it is true. But I do think that, yeah,

711
00:40:51,232 --> 00:40:53,592
as you, as you noted earlier in the discussion,

712
00:40:54,042 --> 00:40:57,122
there, there is another mission that they are

713
00:40:57,522 --> 00:41:00,322
undertaking which is to kill whoever this Alex is.

714
00:41:01,122 --> 00:41:09,282
>> Sarah : Yeah, Yeah. I, I just, I like the mysteries that

715
00:41:09,282 --> 00:41:12,642
have been set up with these characters. I'm not

716
00:41:12,882 --> 00:41:15,962
mean saying like, yeah, this was a decent episode

717
00:41:15,962 --> 00:41:21,322
of television. It's just not. There's, We've only

718
00:41:21,322 --> 00:41:25,322
just started, so it's hard to really look into

719
00:41:25,322 --> 00:41:29,482
nuance of characters. Yeah, I, I think that, I can

720
00:41:29,482 --> 00:41:35,362
appreciate the development of this, this curiosity

721
00:41:35,762 --> 00:41:40,432
to this, You're pretty. I'm pretty. Let's be

722
00:41:40,432 --> 00:41:44,752
pretty together. You're, you're actually not as

723
00:41:45,312 --> 00:41:48,352
rugged and manually as I thought you were. You're

724
00:41:48,352 --> 00:41:51,842
also a lot younger than I thought you were. and

725
00:41:51,842 --> 00:41:55,172
you're also a nerd who apparently has. A nerd who

726
00:41:55,172 --> 00:41:58,332
has never watched any classic movies. Apparently.

727
00:41:58,412 --> 00:42:01,612
I didn't know about that. There, There's a lot of.

728
00:42:02,972 --> 00:42:07,172
I, I, I find, I think we'll find as we learn more

729
00:42:07,172 --> 00:42:13,492
about Link that, that looking back at this first

730
00:42:13,492 --> 00:42:16,972
encounter there, I think we're gonna find some

731
00:42:16,972 --> 00:42:20,852
half truths and we're gonna. There. There are some

732
00:42:20,852 --> 00:42:24,772
secrets very much like Annie. But Grant and Annie,

733
00:42:24,772 --> 00:42:28,572
we know her secrets. Well, we know some of her

734
00:42:28,572 --> 00:42:29,092
secrets.

735
00:42:29,092 --> 00:42:29,612
>> Will: Some of them.

736
00:42:29,612 --> 00:42:32,222
>> Sarah : We know some of them, because we spend the entire

737
00:42:32,222 --> 00:42:35,702
episode with her. This is very much her episode

738
00:42:36,262 --> 00:42:40,182
the day. And we learn about her mom. And I think

739
00:42:40,342 --> 00:42:44,902
my big takeaway with Annie is much less about

740
00:42:44,902 --> 00:42:49,062
Annie and more with her mom. Where we know her mom

741
00:42:49,062 --> 00:42:55,312
was, was got her degree in the medical field. Very

742
00:42:55,392 --> 00:43:01,672
prominent. But we also meet her mom in a very, how

743
00:43:01,672 --> 00:43:04,832
do I put it? In a state of incapacity.

744
00:43:05,232 --> 00:43:05,712
>> Will: Yeah.

745
00:43:06,512 --> 00:43:13,392
>> Sarah : And while Annie is the caretaker and, and when you

746
00:43:13,392 --> 00:43:19,282
realize, like I'm curious. What I'm getting at is

747
00:43:19,282 --> 00:43:22,622
I'm more, I'm more curious about understanding who

748
00:43:22,622 --> 00:43:27,582
her mom was when she. Before she got sick and how,

749
00:43:27,902 --> 00:43:32,862
how it went from this prominent doctor to where we

750
00:43:32,862 --> 00:43:37,782
meet her right before her death and, and how that

751
00:43:37,782 --> 00:43:46,902
translates into this anxiety. Very independent

752
00:43:47,222 --> 00:43:50,262
person that we meet through Annie as an adult.

753
00:43:52,792 --> 00:43:55,592
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I mean as far as her mother. Yeah, I

754
00:43:55,592 --> 00:43:58,632
did. There are a couple things like as you noted

755
00:43:58,632 --> 00:44:02,112
there, one of, one of the just in universe but

756
00:44:02,112 --> 00:44:04,782
also real world things too that that was a good

757
00:44:04,782 --> 00:44:07,472
call back to season one was the fact that she went

758
00:44:07,472 --> 00:44:11,412
to Duke. And immediately I was like. As soon as I

759
00:44:11,412 --> 00:44:13,372
heard that, I was just like, oh, you know,

760
00:44:13,372 --> 00:44:16,452
immediately thought about Cal because of the whole

761
00:44:16,452 --> 00:44:19,452
conversation between, you know, and his nickname

762
00:44:19,452 --> 00:44:21,652
Wildcat, which is, you know, reference to the, you

763
00:44:21,652 --> 00:44:24,972
know, to the shot that Leitner took against

764
00:44:24,972 --> 00:44:29,702
Kentucky. and so, you know, so it was just like

765
00:44:29,702 --> 00:44:32,752
those little nice little callbacks to, to Cal in

766
00:44:32,752 --> 00:44:34,992
the first season and of course, you know, leading

767
00:44:34,992 --> 00:44:39,212
to the day. you know, but also the anxiety that,

768
00:44:40,492 --> 00:44:43,462
that Annie, when we, you know, when we see her in

769
00:44:43,462 --> 00:44:47,672
med school and, and you know, she's helping out

770
00:44:47,672 --> 00:44:49,792
the, you know, help out her classmate whenever

771
00:44:49,792 --> 00:44:51,552
they were trying to diagnose that patient. But

772
00:44:51,552 --> 00:44:55,032
then when it came to her turn and just the, the,

773
00:44:55,032 --> 00:44:57,762
the panic attack or whatever that she had, you

774
00:44:57,762 --> 00:45:02,362
know, and, and just you know, how you know, so the

775
00:45:02,362 --> 00:45:04,842
trauma that she was, that she dealt with with

776
00:45:04,842 --> 00:45:07,802
that. And then you know, fast forward to after the

777
00:45:07,802 --> 00:45:11,082
day in the events of having to take care of her co

778
00:45:11,082 --> 00:45:14,892
worker, when they were, you know, you know, holed

779
00:45:14,892 --> 00:45:18,542
up there in the, in the basement of Graceland, you

780
00:45:18,542 --> 00:45:23,562
know, she was able to. To over, you know, she was

781
00:45:23,562 --> 00:45:25,802
able to, like, at least treat her and, and

782
00:45:25,802 --> 00:45:27,962
whatever anxieties or whatever due to, you know,

783
00:45:27,962 --> 00:45:30,482
due to circumstance, she was able to, like, be

784
00:45:30,482 --> 00:45:32,642
able to do it. Whereas, you know, when she was in

785
00:45:32,642 --> 00:45:34,482
the controlled environment of medical school, she,

786
00:45:34,482 --> 00:45:37,082
you know, the anxiety, like, was over overtook

787
00:45:37,082 --> 00:45:39,892
her. So I wonder if they're, bring that up just to

788
00:45:39,892 --> 00:45:42,732
say, given that, you know, it's very, you know,

789
00:45:42,732 --> 00:45:46,252
that she is a doctor and, you know, she is now

790
00:45:46,252 --> 00:45:50,592
leaving Memphis and want to follow after, Link in

791
00:45:50,592 --> 00:45:53,272
the group. You know, will the, you know, will the,

792
00:45:53,272 --> 00:45:56,112
these, these anxieties and things that she dealt

793
00:45:56,112 --> 00:45:58,552
with whenever she was in med school, you know,

794
00:45:58,552 --> 00:45:59,592
will it resurface?

795
00:45:59,812 --> 00:46:03,162
>> Sarah : well, it kind of does because she chooses not to

796
00:46:03,162 --> 00:46:03,922
go with Link.

797
00:46:04,242 --> 00:46:05,602
>> Will: Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

798
00:46:05,842 --> 00:46:07,602
>> Sarah : She stays behind and.

799
00:46:07,682 --> 00:46:08,162
>> Will: Yeah.

800
00:46:08,722 --> 00:46:11,322
>> Sarah : Which is fascinating. But to go back to the

801
00:46:11,322 --> 00:46:17,172
medical school scene just for one, one second, I

802
00:46:17,172 --> 00:46:21,972
feel like in that moment she was triggered where

803
00:46:21,972 --> 00:46:26,052
before she, she, Nothing was triggering her, but

804
00:46:26,052 --> 00:46:29,132
she saw something, and then that led to flashes,

805
00:46:29,772 --> 00:46:33,652
and then she was overwhelmed, and that led to the

806
00:46:33,652 --> 00:46:39,412
pan panic attack. And, and, and we, we also see

807
00:46:39,412 --> 00:46:44,902
that later because she also resets, Link's wrist

808
00:46:44,982 --> 00:46:48,702
or, or a finger or something. And so she, she's a

809
00:46:48,702 --> 00:46:51,422
very capable person. But this whole thing with

810
00:46:51,422 --> 00:46:55,942
Gail and her taking care of Gail for the first 45

811
00:46:55,942 --> 00:47:02,772
days after the day, I, I, I, I did write a line. I

812
00:47:02,772 --> 00:47:05,012
think what, I think what you did work. I'm not

813
00:47:05,012 --> 00:47:07,972
cold anymore. You did it. You saved me. How did he

814
00:47:07,972 --> 00:47:11,812
get so smart, kid? And in response, Annie says,

815
00:47:12,692 --> 00:47:16,532
I'm not smart. My mom is. So there's, there's a

816
00:47:16,532 --> 00:47:24,572
lot of, of like her because even Link and the

817
00:47:24,572 --> 00:47:27,732
others, the nerd squad, when they encounter, they,

818
00:47:27,972 --> 00:47:31,772
they realize that she's been able to survive for

819
00:47:31,772 --> 00:47:36,502
so long by herself because of her, her ability to

820
00:47:36,502 --> 00:47:40,382
think about things and be smart about it. And so,

821
00:47:41,022 --> 00:47:44,342
so she's not dumb. Like, that was very obvious.

822
00:47:44,342 --> 00:47:47,422
And nobody around her thinks that she's dumb.

823
00:47:47,902 --> 00:47:48,302
>> Will: Right.

824
00:47:48,302 --> 00:47:52,302
>> Sarah : But she's refusing to let herself be seen as

825
00:47:52,302 --> 00:47:56,462
smart. And I think that's a very interesting thing

826
00:47:56,542 --> 00:48:02,712
to do with a character. she's also, I think, and

827
00:48:02,712 --> 00:48:06,112
this goes into what you were getting at with her,

828
00:48:06,492 --> 00:48:11,532
her anxiety, that we see return to an extent at

829
00:48:11,532 --> 00:48:14,252
the end of the episode when she decides not to go

830
00:48:14,252 --> 00:48:17,772
with Link and she shuts him out, both figuratively

831
00:48:17,772 --> 00:48:24,572
and literally where she, she's, she's. So far

832
00:48:24,572 --> 00:48:28,142
we've seen her take good care of her mom. Her mom

833
00:48:28,142 --> 00:48:33,742
Dies. Take good care of Gail. Gail dies. Yeah, she

834
00:48:33,822 --> 00:48:39,782
can't. Dependence on others, like, and she's

835
00:48:39,782 --> 00:48:44,782
about, she's about to be a mom. So, so there I, I,

836
00:48:44,782 --> 00:48:48,862
I can see a very interesting character or this,

837
00:48:48,942 --> 00:48:52,302
this journey to be very interesting as we go

838
00:48:52,302 --> 00:48:55,702
along. and now she's gonna, she's gonna have

839
00:48:55,702 --> 00:48:59,072
Xavier, who's the biggest fixer on the planet,

840
00:49:03,552 --> 00:49:07,592
Who, who's very much, Let me take care of you. Let

841
00:49:07,592 --> 00:49:10,632
me not worry about my. Let me take care of you.

842
00:49:10,632 --> 00:49:14,672
But is also dead set on finding his wife. so,

843
00:49:15,312 --> 00:49:20,122
yeah, I, I'm glad we're talking about it because,

844
00:49:20,122 --> 00:49:23,282
yeah, there are bits and pieces and like I said,

845
00:49:23,282 --> 00:49:25,562
it is a good episode of television. I never said

846
00:49:25,562 --> 00:49:28,522
it was a bad episode of television. I just wasn't

847
00:49:28,522 --> 00:49:30,882
overly like, oh, my God.

848
00:49:31,682 --> 00:49:34,602
>> Will: Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, I had to, like, reset my

849
00:49:34,602 --> 00:49:36,682
expectations a little bit because, honestly, I,

850
00:49:36,682 --> 00:49:41,012
you know, because I was like, I, you know, given

851
00:49:41,012 --> 00:49:44,822
how we, we, how season one ended and Xavier was,

852
00:49:44,902 --> 00:49:47,302
you know, flying out to, to find his wife and

853
00:49:47,302 --> 00:49:50,712
everything like that, you know, I, I, I did, you

854
00:49:50,712 --> 00:49:54,092
know, so for, for them to, go the path that they

855
00:49:54,092 --> 00:49:57,042
did. It took me a moment. I have, you know, and,

856
00:49:56,992 --> 00:49:59,182
but, but like I said at the beginning, I think

857
00:49:59,182 --> 00:50:04,332
that it, I, I understand why they went the

858
00:50:04,332 --> 00:50:07,532
direction that they did. And I mean, and, and,

859
00:50:07,532 --> 00:50:10,012
and, and it does make sense because you do need

860
00:50:10,012 --> 00:50:14,092
to, like, you know, because we've chronicled

861
00:50:14,092 --> 00:50:15,492
everything that's happened in the bunker. Now

862
00:50:15,492 --> 00:50:18,012
we're seeing how life, how life was for people

863
00:50:18,012 --> 00:50:21,812
outside of this, you know, this, this quite frank.

864
00:50:21,812 --> 00:50:24,532
You know, these are everyday people for the most

865
00:50:24,532 --> 00:50:26,442
part. because, you know, because really the people

866
00:50:26,442 --> 00:50:29,442
who are in the bunker or the, what was it, 25, 000

867
00:50:29,442 --> 00:50:32,202
or 20, what was it, 25,000, 250,000, whoever,

868
00:50:32,202 --> 00:50:34,282
what, whatever the number was of like, you know,

869
00:50:34,442 --> 00:50:37,892
the best, you know, that Dr. Tarabi basically,

870
00:50:37,892 --> 00:50:42,832
like, identified as the, the chosen ones. and so I

871
00:50:42,832 --> 00:50:43,832
love how the

872
00:50:43,832 --> 00:50:48,752
>> Sarah : bunker is not a secret. Have you realized that how

873
00:50:48,752 --> 00:50:51,671
much people know about this bunker, it really, I

874
00:50:51,671 --> 00:50:53,552
would like to understand more about that

875
00:50:53,552 --> 00:50:56,532
communication and how that went out, when the

876
00:50:56,532 --> 00:50:59,612
world shut down and turned off. But I agree with

877
00:50:59,612 --> 00:51:03,732
you. I, I can appreciate that we're seeing

878
00:51:04,052 --> 00:51:07,692
different people go through the day, like, getting

879
00:51:07,692 --> 00:51:13,252
different perspectives. I think at least one

880
00:51:13,252 --> 00:51:16,092
episode, I don't think, I don't necessarily think

881
00:51:16,092 --> 00:51:18,452
we're gonna get another episode this, this season

882
00:51:18,532 --> 00:51:24,892
that has, like, clear flashbacks to the day, but I

883
00:51:24,892 --> 00:51:28,132
do think an episode A season we will. Where one

884
00:51:28,132 --> 00:51:30,652
character. we're gonna get. We're gonna get

885
00:51:30,652 --> 00:51:32,892
Xavier's wife's experience.

886
00:51:33,452 --> 00:51:38,252
>> Will: Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. So, yeah, yeah.

887
00:51:38,252 --> 00:51:41,572
>> Sarah : So, like. And then. And then also, like, that was

888
00:51:41,572 --> 00:51:46,932
also maybe 15 minutes of this episode where it was

889
00:51:46,932 --> 00:51:51,932
the survival after the day. And. And. And also

890
00:51:52,172 --> 00:51:55,572
this idea, like, okay, what. What really did

891
00:51:55,572 --> 00:51:57,972
happen? What were the sequence of events? And I

892
00:51:57,972 --> 00:52:01,692
like that. Like, Suddenly it's day 30, and it's

893
00:52:01,692 --> 00:52:04,852
like the sun is completely blocked out. Everybody

894
00:52:04,852 --> 00:52:10,252
is freezing, and. And you don't hear life anymore.

895
00:52:10,252 --> 00:52:13,172
And there's a dullness and there's a darkness, and

896
00:52:13,172 --> 00:52:15,692
it's very. The Walking Dead.

897
00:52:16,732 --> 00:52:17,132
>> Will: And.

898
00:52:17,452 --> 00:52:20,612
>> Sarah : And then you break out a few years later and the

899
00:52:20,612 --> 00:52:23,372
sun is out and Annie sees it for the first time

900
00:52:23,612 --> 00:52:24,732
in, like, two years.

901
00:52:25,392 --> 00:52:25,672
>> Will: Yeah.

902
00:52:25,672 --> 00:52:29,152
>> Sarah : And you hear the birds and the horse returns, and,

903
00:52:29,442 --> 00:52:34,522
suddenly things are. Are going again. But there's

904
00:52:34,522 --> 00:52:40,002
still a fear. There's still a fear of if I reenter

905
00:52:40,002 --> 00:52:44,402
the world, I don't know what I'm reentering into.

906
00:52:45,442 --> 00:52:49,562
And I think we see that with Annie, and we felt

907
00:52:49,562 --> 00:52:54,382
that very much with Sinatra, even in the first

908
00:52:54,382 --> 00:52:59,302
season about. Well, yeah, all that stuff we know.

909
00:52:59,382 --> 00:53:02,982
But still, we're probably safer down here.

910
00:53:03,542 --> 00:53:04,102
>> Will: Yeah.

911
00:53:04,102 --> 00:53:06,992
>> Sarah : So, just like, Annie thinks she's safer, which

912
00:53:06,992 --> 00:53:10,992
arguably she is as a pregnant person in Memphis.

913
00:53:12,672 --> 00:53:13,072
So.

914
00:53:13,632 --> 00:53:14,112
>> Will: Yeah.

915
00:53:15,072 --> 00:53:17,832
>> Sarah : All right, well, I think that is it for us

916
00:53:17,832 --> 00:53:19,792
tonight. We will be talking next week.

917
00:53:20,022 --> 00:53:20,262
>> Will: Week.

918
00:53:20,742 --> 00:53:25,862
>> Sarah : about the next three episodes. Y. Yeah, all three

919
00:53:25,862 --> 00:53:29,662
episodes. So. So strap in for that. On that note,

920
00:53:29,662 --> 00:53:31,502
Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they

921
00:53:31,502 --> 00:53:32,262
can find you?

922
00:53:32,742 --> 00:53:35,702
>> Will: Yes, you can find me on all the socials at Will

923
00:53:35,702 --> 00:53:39,222
and Polk. W, I, L, L, M M, P O L, L, K. And you

924
00:53:39,222 --> 00:53:39,342
can

925
00:53:39,342 --> 00:53:41,822
>> Sarah : find me there too, at S.J. belmont. S.J. b, L, M

926
00:53:41,822 --> 00:53:44,422
O, N, T. Please follow our crew on X, formerly

927
00:53:44,422 --> 00:53:47,062
known as Twitter, @Cena Nerd. on Blue Sky. Friend

928
00:53:47,062 --> 00:53:49,422
us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads

929
00:53:49,422 --> 00:53:54,174
at Scene Nerd, and Visit our website, www.scenerd

930
00:53:54,430 --> 00:53:57,342
podcast.com. but most importantly, rate, follow

931
00:53:57,342 --> 00:54:00,022
and comment on Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or

932
00:54:00,022 --> 00:54:01,902
wherever your podcast. Good night. Geek out.

933
00:54:01,902 --> 00:54:02,622
You're welcome,

934
00:54:11,672 --> 00:54:26,872
>> Will: Sam.