The Penguin Episode 3 Shines, Joker 2 Disappoints, Agatha Episode 4 Underwhelms & More TV Insights

0:10 >> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont. And with me, as always, is our mister producer will Will Polk How are you doing tonight. >> Will: Will doing very well. Sarah, great to be here with you tonight. >> Sarah : Yeah. Another one for the books and. >> Will: Yes, yes. >> Sarah : So correct me if I'm wrong. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Cause was it yesterday was both the premiere of Superman and Lois the final season. >> Will: Yep. >> Sarah : And, ten years since the debut of the flash. >> Will: Yeah, I think it was either either yesterday or Sunday, but yeah, they all. Yeah, they were right there together. Yeah. >> Sarah : And it's. It wasn't like your birthday or anything, right?

0:55 >> Will: No, that's not until December, but yeah. Yeah, it did feel that way. it wasn't. Like I said, I think I did post on our socials, this sort of a bittersweet season, premiere day, because, Yeah, I mean, we do both enjoy Superman and Lois. And, from what I gather, it just seeing the one time, the few moments I was on social media last night just to see, what was going on, it was like trending, at least on Twitter. It was like, you know, it was in the top trends for me in the US last night as far as the Superman and Lois premier. And, Yeah, and just seeing just some of the, you know, just seeing some of the reactions and stuff. I mean, it is. They lived up to what they were saying. The, showrunners were saying as far as, you know, taking interesting and a different take on the, very well known storyline in the DC comic universe.

1:47 >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah. I mean, probably 80% of that was just bots from WB who wanted to get positivity. Positivity out there amidst all of the joker talk that happened over the weekend. And it used to go on and on. Granted, it's hilarious how big the conversation is for a movie that the box office score was 35 million. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I think it finally finished a weekend at 37. but still, where they project, I mean, it was that the trends were trending downward. >> Sarah : Oh, yeah. >> Will: yeah. They were expecting 40 and yet it barely got to 37.

2:30 >> Sarah : Yeah. Madam Webb did better than it in box office. >> Will: Yeah. And also, and also centiscord. >> Sarah : Yeah. You know, it, it's assigned and I say this all the time, like, I really don't want to watch previews. but I do. You can tell almost when a studio knows they have a winner and when a studio knows when they have a loser. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : Because I had forgotten for a few. For a few, like, exactly when Joker two was coming. I knew it was coming. But I, I wasn't inundated with ads or anything as like a continuous reminder. So I really don't think WB is that surprised by the outcome considering the lack of marketing it had.

3:23 >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. Between that and then, Yeah, things they were like dropping. Cause they were really starting to hype up some other things in the new DC studios. I think there's the new dynamic duo. The Robin story I think dropped earlier, let drop last week. I think I saw and what I did. Well, I guess a premiere for it or a trailer, a teaser for teaser trailer for it. And then just, just, you know, some of the behind the scenes stuff to sort of Todd Phillips talking about. you know, I think he's bailing on no more DC projects for comic book projects and, other things. And I know you've, I know you've Scene the Joker. I haven't yet. but, Yeah. Any, any spoiler or non spoiler thoughts you had about the film itself since you're, you're one of the few people based on the box office numbers who saw it.

4:11 >> Sarah : Right. So I will say it's not a musical. I don't consider it to be a musical. I don't think that's why comic book or just people who saw the movie in general are saying it's bad. It's not because of the genre. I mean, come on. Do you know how well musicals do, like a good musical do? It has nothing to do with that. And we've covered multiple episodes of television in the comic book genre and their musical episodes really are executed well. This not executed well.

4:51 And I don't like to do spoilers even though there's not really a whole lot to spoil. In my opinion about this movie, it just is what it is. But at the same time, I couldn't help but think throughout the entire movie how it's kind of unfortunate what they did because when we first saw the trailer, I forgot about this. But I remember us discussing the trailer and I said it should be told from Harley Quinn's perspective and everything should be in her head.

5:37 They didn't do that. And Spoiler alert, that's to its detriment because having this told from Joker's perspective, I think is the reason why it was. It's, it's not doing well. It's viewed as being a bad movie. It's viewed as being a boring movie. All of the bad adjectives you want to throw out there. It just is. It almost feels like a weird extension and a weird quasi rendition of what we already saw play out in Joker one.

6:23 So it's, it's a sequel, but it's more like an extension. And it's just, you're not really satisfied because you, you, wanted it to be more. You're like, oh, they're doing a sequel, so there's, there's more to the story to tell. And then you introduce Harley. But Harley's her own character and I just wish. But her character is almost the, how do I put it? Is almost the outcome of joker. So they had an opportunity to do something very well. If only I had pitched that idea to them at the beginning, because I just. And throughout the whole movie from the get go, I remembered that conversation and saying that.

7:18 And as everything was unfolding, I'm thinking to myself, yeah, I wrote a better movie in five minutes than this. It's just so lame. So, yeah, I mean, yeah, and people can put out there how it was shot, how the acting and everything, but at the end of the day, it was just all undercooked. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna try to see it this weekend, maybe Friday. But, so share my thoughts on it as well. But definitely, wanted to hear yours while the ball is still. The underwhelming film was fresh in your mind.

7:59 >> Sarah : Yeah, I, I definitely checked my, my, phone to see what time it was at least four or five times throughout the movie. And I normally don't do that. >> Will: Yeah, that's bad. >> Sarah : Yeah. I started to like a half hour in because something happened and I was thinking to myself, this seems really quick. What time, how long have we been here? And I'm like, oh, okay, this is not, that does not bode well. So, so. And, it's, and it's weird because you know how people always say, like, there are people who love bad movies and build a cult following and all of that stuff.

8:45 and I think that comes more than more about. It is always more fascinating to listen to people talk about movies that are considered bad. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : Because I've enjoyed hearing everyone's thoughts about it, even though it gets a bit repetitious and no one's really becoming that original with their overall thoughts. But at the same time, it's just, I don't know, it's. We all love to get on the hater train together. >> Will: Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : Trolls will be trolls. Yeah, yeah. It's. I spent, my week. I, So last weekend I talked about all these shows that I was binging. Right, right. And at the very end. I dropped that. I just started a show on Hulu called tell me lies, right?

9:39 >> Will: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : Basically the r rated version of a gossip girl. Pretty little liars. Whatever. You'll have it. sending college. In college. So these are all consenting adults. but. And I told you you didn't see a lot. No, no, no. I forgot how much I would, like, see where things were going and then get up and do something. Cause, like, I don't know why we need to see somebody make out for ten to 15 minutes, but. No, no, no. There's a lot of nudity. There's a lot of nudity. This is not for your. For people underage at all. and also, the main character, Lucy, she just gets worse and worse with every single episode. I'm like, why the is she our main character? She is so stupid. She's not smart. And the sad thing is, this show goes to the past when they're in college, when everyone's in college together.

10:45 Fast forwards to the future, and you can see where they are five years after college graduation. So you get this back and forth. And so I've Scene her in present day. The girl is still acting the same way she did five to six years ago. Whatever. So ridiculous. Granted, they had a very good mystery. Not even a mystery. Just like, okay, I still am a bit curious of how things are going to turn out. and I was also right. Second season is arguably better than the first season. You just have to get through the first season. And I was surprised. I just. I just went through it probably because I was doing a lot of stuff.

11:28 >> Will: Background noise. >> Sarah : Yeah, background noise. And then. And so now I'm in the second season. I didn't realize the second season has not stopped airing. >> Will: Oh, okay. >> Sarah : But now I'm caught up, and I'm like, damn it. I was fully binge committed. >> Will: you gotta go back to the old linear model of weekly drop. >> Sarah : Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I might stock up on the next three. But now, because I told you how I got involved with this show was because it was all over my TikTok feed. Well, now part of me is like, yeah, I have to go to the standard model because I'm gonna get so many scenes ruined for me if you don't do that.

12:14 >> Will: Yeah, exactly. >> Sarah : Yeah, exactly. Granted, I mean, I basically had the entire, like, the most recent episode completely spoiled for me on TikTok that it doesn't really make. It's not a high. Like, it's not like, oh, my God, I don't want to know anything. It's just. It's just interesting. I like. I like, what they're doing in terms of the. This is the past and how things unfolded and this is the present and where they are now and how some things have changed, yet some things haven't changed, Lucy. and just also, what is everybody's moves right now?

12:57 There still seems to be. They are still all playing games, but, like, like how. And they threw a curve ball at the end of season one that I did not see coming. so I am now more curious to understand how that worked out. >> Will: Okay. >> Sarah : so they're doing a good job. but it is the trash tv show. Come on. >> Will: We all have our trash tv shows that we enjoy to just unwind and just put it, like, the back ground noise just to help pass the time. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. So I just had to, So it was basically finished. Like, I watched episode five or six of season two, got up, went to the movie theater, did Joker, came back, put on the next episode.

13:51 Don't worry. I did watch. I did watch the penguin, and I did watch Agatha all along. Okay. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : In between all that, Had to do that, too. >> Will: Yeah. Just that little. Just those two little shows. that's happening. Yeah. I did finally get around to Agatha episode four last night, so. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, episode four. If I can't reach you let me let my song teach you. >> Will: Yeah, yeah. So. Yeah, so, I guess. Yeah. >> Sarah : Well. Well, you go ahead. I just did a full rant, so. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, no, I, Yeah, like I said, I know I'm almost a full week behind with Agatha, so. Because I know the new episode drops, I think, tomorrow. But, So I, My overall thoughts on this episode, I did. As I noted, I did watch it last night, and I sent you a DM saying. Oh, yeah, I finally.

14:43 Yeah, I watched Agatha. I, air quote, watched Agatha. Hello. And, you probably know you. We've been doing as well, long enough to know I was. You could probably sense that I was underwhelmed. >> Sarah : Oh, yeah. It's. It's probably their worst episode. >> Will: Yeah, yeah. I, Yeah, speaking of how, you said how you were checking your phone during Joker, this is the first episode of Agatha where I started checking my phone. and, I mean, it was. It was okay. I mean, I'm not saying it was bad, but just in the. In the scale of Agatha shows, I mean, which has been up to date solid, this one was. It was underwhelming. I have it just was. And I can barely remember, like what. What happened in it? It was. It just. It left me. It left me cold.

15:30 >> Sarah : Yeah, it felt. It felt very. Now we have. Now we're on the road. Now we have a, procedural esque template to plug these characters into a new house and to have one of them overcome something that was alluded to in the previous episode. And it was like, But we had a different version of the same thing last. You don't want that. Once you fall into the procedural mindset, it just. Or you can not even mindset. Sorry, that's probably the wrong word, but that procedural archetype, then it just becomes a bit stale and a bit like, well, this is kind of boring.

16:20 >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : I also just want to know, like, can we expect a full musical episode at this point? And I swear. I swear, like I said, I watched a full Joker movie. Two and a half hours and then some. Or, no, 2 hours. Yeah. Anyway, like a long time. And. And Agatha along keeps having banger after banger music moments. That did not happen really, in the Joker. >> Will: No, no. >> Sarah : Just. I just.

17:00 Yeah. >> Will: I will say that even though the episode left me cold, I will say that the ballot. Yeah, because you're right, they do have. It is pretty much a template now because we. You know, the last week we had the. The, water test and this week we had the fire test. So we. We do have a template trial. So next week, or if, you know, we'll get earth and air the next two weeks, in some port in some order. But I will say the music, the seventies ballad, the power, you know, rock ballot that they did, It worked. you know. You know, it did leave an impression, even though just the remixed version of the song that they've been singing with, you know, going down the witch's road. But. Yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : And. And they did bring back Audrey Plaza because they have to summon someone to replace Sharon rip.

17:49 And they. I mean, we all knew that she was going to appear, right. As soon as they started to, it was like, kind of obvious. I did like that moment. And I think the flaw in this episode or the fault in this episode is they didn't do more of this with not even Agatha, but with some of the other characters is the conversation between Rio and, Agatha. And we learn that it was basically implied. Rio's the one who had. It was her job to take the baby from Agatha.

18:31 and so. And I can appreciate that the writing in that scene is not too explicit. it is very vague because it is a very sensitive subject. So it felt natural for two people to have that kind of history. And then. And then you start again to feel a little bit more sympathy towards Agatha and also an understanding. It's like, well, yeah, if that witch did that to me, of course I would end up taking her power. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Like, and over in some way, despite them having been lovers at one point. So, yeah, yeah, that.

19:17 >> Will: Yeah, that. That scene worked. their interactions and stuff. That definitely was the plus. And then the other thing that did stand out to me, too, was just Agatha, related to that. was, you know, Agatha's reaction when teen was, was injured and just the cause, you know, like, when Sharon died, it was sort of like, okay, whatever, you know, and everybody else is like, dude, really? But, you know, but she. Whenever teen was, it was. Was hurt. And, you know. And to your point, about Rio and having some role in act. In taking of Agatha's child earlier, you know, it does. It does, you know, start to, like, make. Make the audience and wonder, like, you know, especially with Agatha.

20:04 Agatha's actions with teen and then seeing her reactions when he's bleeding out like that. you know, does she suspect that Tina's her son, especially given that the sigil is, is on him? >> Sarah : Yeah. Well, I had that suspicion even. Even at the beginning when it's first brought up, that her son was taken away and could still be alive. Like, immediately, I thought, well, is that the teen or is that Wanda's kid? And I think last week I even said, I still think that's Wanda's kidde. Yeah, but. And I can appreciate. I. That seemed too obvious for me to really appreciate. But. But I understand your point. and I did like the line and that.

20:48 And that clarification that, no, that that boy is not yours. because. Because it's kind of like, for a moment, Agatha had a little bit of hope. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : And then that was even taken away from her. Granted, hope can be dangerous, and we do learn more about the sigil. Like, it works on the witch who casted it too. So, they can't also. So I m works on the witch who casted it too. So then the witch who casted it cannot. Anytime that they try to say the teen's name or anything about him and where he comes from, like, they. Nobody can hear it.

21:38 Right? Is that how that would work? >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : Okay. Okay. Well, then, like, we knew from that moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That it was in them. and I think Maggie, Agatha did too, because she's the one who said that, so. Hm. Interesting. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : And then, But, It needs to be destroyed and that only can happen when it's no longer needed, so. So when does the kid turn 18? >> Will: Yeah, exactly. >> Sarah : You know what? And also no longer needed. They're doing a good job with the teen.

22:20 >> Will: Yeah, I agree. Yeah. >> Sarah : So far, I thought it would be a little more annoying, but it's not. It's a good thread to continue pulling forward. And, Yeah, so, I mean, again, not the best episode so far, but I think there were a few moments and, We're just going to keep going down this road because apparently that's the arc of this season. >> Will: Yep. That's the arc. That's template. I know. I was concerned about that with another show we're going to talk about here in a few minutes. But, But yeah, it's very clear now that they definitely have their template. And we're episode five, so, Of eight. So we will get, We'll get those other two trials and then we'll, you know, we'll. We'll have our marvel ending.

23:13 >> Sarah : Yeah. the other show we're going to talk about tonight is the penguin, episode three, bliss. Oz and Sophia must address the skeletons in their closet as they attempt to control the future of Gotham's drug trade, while Victor is torn between his new life and what remains of his old one. so this is Vic's episode. >> Will: Yep. >> Sarah : Yep. Vic's episode. And. And it dawned on me. Okay, so we've had three episodes of the Penguin. Episode one, clearly the Penguins episode. Episode two, we got a lot more. And the cold open was all Sophia. And now the cold open is Vic. And this episode is truly his episode. And so I like that. Now, fingers crossed, we've got the setup for our three central characters out of the way.

24:07 >> Will: Yep. Yep. >> Sarah : So. So curious about next week. and that. How that'll. That'll play out, because, I feel like they. They have their chess pieces, in place and then some. But my first question to you will, At what point during the cold open did you realize that we were watching the end of the batman through Vic's perspective? >> Will: I think when they were so, you know, Vic goes. Meets this, you know, goes to his family. They have their. You know, they're, inside the spider verse moment in the household and stuff. and, you know, he has the conversation where he leaves with. Whenever he leaves the home and has that. That pointed discussion with his father about ambition and. And all.

24:58 And how that ended. I was just like, oh, I get it now. This was. This was the night of the night that the Riddler set off the bombs. It was. It was in that moment whenever he. Whenever they. Whenever he left and how things were left with his father was when I realized it. >> Sarah : Right. Well, you caught on a lot quicker than me because it was right when they started setting off the bombs. I don't know, I was just. I was like, oh, yeah, we finally get to see Vic's. Vic's family. We're. We're seeing more of his story. And I knew in the back of my mind and my subconscious, I knew that his crown point was destroyed. But for some reason, I just did not put two and two together, fortunately. so, so I. Yeah, I was a bit surprised. But it also. It worked really well.

25:56 >> Will: It worked well, I will say, even though I can't, you know, whenever. Especially when the bombs went off. And it confirmed my suspicions. Just the. The cinematography and the scale and the scope of what happened, it really contextualized more of what happened at the end of the Batman and really just. It really drove it home in a more visceral way because when you see the floodwaters rushing in and, you know, maybe it's just due to some real world stuff I've been dealing with here in my state. but, you know, taking it back to the show, just seeing that, seeing the bridge and the coming hitting department and just wipe it, you know, seeing that, wiping Victor's family out, I mean, it was just that, you know, I know we both were like, you know, trying to figure out how we felt about Vic as a character. And this really, like, this was the. Really deepened my understanding to help me understand what. What this character is about.

26:57 with, you know, seeing. Seeing things like, you know, we were seeing think the crap. You know, we had reference to it and we've Scene all the fallout from the Batman, from the riddler setting off the bombs. But this really drove it home in a real way with one of our lead characters, in this show. And, you know, it was. It was. It was. It was a gut punch. I mean, as far as it was very what they intended for it to do to make you care more about Vic. I think they succeeded in that. >> Sarah : Right, right. we also, during that process, get introduced to his girlfriend and, who also survives because they are together on that night at the rooftop. And, so later on in the episode when Vic does not get to be driver, we'll talk more about that a little bit later, he is home alone at Penguin's place. And I just love how it's not even two minutes. He immediately calls his girlfriend. I'm like, wow, you are a child.

28:02 >> Will: Yeah. Because Bing was like, I know, I will know. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. I was just like I don't understand. And then we get his overall Crisis this episode which is she wants to leave. And he, considering his position with the penguin, doesn't know really if he can just walk out. So. And which leads to some really good scenes, Especially between him and Oz as This episode is really developing that father son dynamic between these two for better and for worse.

28:44 >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean you know, the bookends that they had. Well really with the a. You know with. You know clearly the big story was the a story in this episode. And then between the cold open, the. The lunch that they had in a fancy restaurant while they. While they were you know setting up. Oh gosh, what's her name? Lucas wife. I can't remember her name. But The conversation they had there. And you know. You know, Penguin Oz learning more about Vic's family and you know the whole thing about ambition and also just their relationship too because like when a waiter for example, you know, is. Is trying to. When Victor's struggling you know, with a stutter to place his order you know the protective nature of Penguin you know came out As far as when waiter was doing his thing and. But then when you get to the end of the episode after Vic has this panic attack, and trying to Finally share with. With Oz with his girlfriend waiting on the bus, You know he's trying to. You know, Ozzy's phone, the message and just how all that played out. And you see the flip side of Ozdev trying. You know, the manipulative nature of Oz. But also that scene with. With Vic and Oz there in the bathroom was just so. It just worked so on so many levels from a performance standpoint. Because in.

30:12 In the same mode where You know, Oz like went back to the bullying you know, putting a gun to his head like trying to. Manipulation literally with you know with. With threat of force, >> Will: He was also still like. Like genuinely hurt as far as the emotion too. And his own kind in Oz's own kind of way. And just how that was all sold was just like. Just really. Just really. You know, so many levels there within that. Within that. Within that scene that You know really really stood out to me. how. You know, as far as the manipulation, but also the guilt trip that he was doing and then. But also, I think some level of hurt, too, because, you know, because of how well they set things up earlier in the episode with. With the conversation that they had at the restaurant.

31:06 >> Sarah : Yeah, I. I think there's manipulation in both scenes. >> Will: Oh, yeah, there is. >> Sarah : I mean, there's manipulation since they first encountered. Because, I mean, Penguin has no need for him. So he. It's. It's this weird position as a viewer for me, because he's technically expendable. But I think the penguin, also, because of his stammer, sees a. Something like a, sees somewhat of a kindred spirit, and he wants to give this kid a shot. And he's really taken under his wing. And so I don't know why I never think that I haven't. From the get go. Penguin will never hurt Vic.

32:01 >> Will: Yeah, he won't. >> Sarah : The hangman will. But Penguin will never, hurt vic, no matter what. And so. But I think that what I can appreciate is that in that cold, open, there is that conversation between, Vic and his girlfriend looking at Gotham, the big city and where all the fancy people live. And you can tell in that moment, just through his eyes, that, he aspires to live there and to make it there. And I don't. Now, I don't know when the heck the penguin saw that, but that's honestly something that, for one reason or another, the penguin knows about. And that's where he really twists it and he's really able to.

33:04 To use, like, I did it. You can, too. Just follow my lead. Like, you. You see me and they accept me. So. So it's just, >> Will: Yeah, it is a twisted, like, american pull yourself up by the bootstrap american, you know, american dreams, even though it's the criminal underworld type of story there. >> Sarah : Yeah. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : It's people who. And we've Scene the relationship between Oz and his mom. So the manipulation that occurs between Oz and vicinity, like, it makes sense. Oz doesn't know any other way.

33:50 So an honest be worse. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah, that is true. That is true. I mean. I mean, people. You know, people do, like, you know, whatever patterns, good and bad, you pick up from your parents, it carries. You know, it does carry forward in your own parenting style. And. And we see that as far as, I guess, like you said, I mean, Oz is sort of. Has become sort of the surrogate father for Vic. And so that model that he. That he grew up with is now what he's. What he's doing to Vic. >> Sarah : Right. And. And there isn't anything wrong with wanting more. It's just the means of how you go about it. >> Will: Right. >> Sarah : and. And so far, technically, Vic hasn't really done that much wrong.

34:35 He even gave a cop $1,000. >> Will: But. >> Sarah : Which you could in that scene. He's learning from his mistakes because that was good improvisation when things go a little bit sideways, and then by the end, when he literally crashes the party to ultimately save Oz, he, again, working on the improvisation. So, yeah, I think those. The arc, was good. a little bit of a fresh perspective and more of an understanding of how Oz can, how and why Oz keeps Vic around. and why. And now, more importantly, by the end of the show, why Vic stays.

35:26 >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : Even though his dad would not be proud of him. >> Will: No, no. Which. Yeah, definitely would not be proud of him. But we do. But I think they did a great job of, like. Like you said, helping, us understand why he sticks around. And, And, But also the other thing, too, is just, why Colin Farrell is just doing such an amazing job with this character. In that. Thinking about that bathroom scene, he. I actually felt whenever. Whenever the manipulation was going on, I still almost felt sorry for. I felt bad for us that Vic was even thinking about leaving, which is, like, making me care about the villain.

36:07 >> Sarah : Oh. But it's. It's. He's not the villain. He's the hero. >> Will: He's a hero. Yeah. I have to remember that. Yeah. This is the hero of his story. Yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : yeah, it's. You. You need to like him. And honestly, they're like, yeah, like Vic. But I wouldn't say like your alternative is liking the Hague, man. >> Will: Yeah, true. But. >> Sarah : But she. Sophia, ah. Is also coming into her own. and I. And I'm starting to really come around on her, mainly because I really appreciate the lack of clarification about the history. we learned in this episode. He used to be her driver, and we still don't know the full beat for beat betrayal that occurred.

37:07 But they were definitely close. And I really like the conversation at the end where it was the first, arguably real conversation where, again, we had just Scene him break down over Vic. And it makes sense that he would come off or have this response. Then when Sophia finally confronts him and just said, did he get everything you wanted? >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : And. And I also like, he's like, yeah, fuck. I did. >> Will: Yep. >> Sarah : I'm not sorry for that, because. Because if he had. If he had said it like it's bullshit. He isn't sorry exactly.

37:54 At the same time, it's this weird thing where I almost don't know if it's true or if I want it to be true. The next line he says where he did, does regret having hurt her. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : And what. What he did to her. And so it's like you don't regret the outcome. Well, duh. >> Will: Yeah. It's probably one truthful thing he said. >> Sarah : Yeah. The. The. But the means to get there was only one path. Or, or maybe. We don't know, maybe there was an option and maybe that's what he regrets and that's what he was talking about.

38:39 So, like, that, the mystery of the full context of the history with these characters and how they're piece, by piece, putting that together over the course of the season, I really. I really like. Because that adds intrigue for me and curiosity. >> Will: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean, that to that scene too, is just to your. Just to think a little bit more about it. Whenever, again, Colin, Farrell, just fucking amazing. Because, like, whenever he started tearing up when he was telling Sophia that while he was still. I mean, it's just the depths of his.

39:21 Even though, like you said, he doesn't regret what he got, but he, you know, but at the same time, he's, you know, conveying there seems to be something he's feeling there. I don't know what the emotion is. because he just. He feeds so many lies. You just. It reaches a point like, you know, what is the truth with this guy? because he is a survivor. Like we talked about last week with, like, you reminded here you made a great callback to, yabashige from. From shogungest. >> Sarah : Yeah. >> Will: you know, he will do what he needs to suit his own end. And especially we see that at the end of this episode because when. When Vic rescue, you know, rescues them both from the Maronis, you know, she. He jumps in the car and Vic's like, what about, you know, they're. What about Sophie and Sophia? And he's just like, get the fuck out of here. So after selling all.

40:17 Yeah, after all that saying he was, you know, I, You know, you got it. You can trust me. And all the stuff he built up, he still reverted back to the, you know, back to that survival mode because that's what he knows. >> Sarah : Yeah, I don't. I guess I retract that statement. I don't know if that's the smartest thing he could have done, because now you have Sophia and Nadia. They're going to talk. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Yeah. And neither one of them trusts. I mean, I. This episode, I think, does a good job of putting the Maronis on the back burner without the viewer even realizing it. So when Nadia appears, you're like, oh, yeah, thank God they're actually smart. It also, they appear in a way where it's like, okay, thank God we're working with a lot of smarteen characters.

41:12 Characters. because they're all bad guys, and typically, bad guys are not the brightest. >> Will: Right. >> Sarah : So. So Nadia, like, Oz and Vic may have gotten away, but now, technically, you have kind of two enemies who are going to potentially make an alliance. So I don't know if leaving Sofia was in the best interest, but at the same time, it's like he's got to get away from Nadia because of. They were not happy, which. Which I was right. At the end of last episode, Nadia never got her guy back. >> Will: She never did. Yeah, they pieced it together. >> Sarah : And where the heck is that actress from? Okay.

41:56 but I swear to God, I've Scene her in so many things, and I just. And she's always really good. I just. I can't place it. >> Will: Yeah, I I know. I'm the same way, too. I need to look at the IMDb, real fast just to, like, to place her, because she. She is. Oh, yeah. She's. I've Scene her in other stuff, and she's always delivers a great performance. but, yeah, but I agree. I, Yeah. >> Sarah : You know, she was from the house of sand and Foghorne. >> Will: Okay. >> Sarah : Way back in 2003 with, I believe that was with Ben Kingsley. I remember that you've Scene her in Star Trek beyond.

42:38 >> Will: That's where it was. Yep, yep, yep. >> Sarah : I'm just. I'm just looking at this. Yeah, yeah. She's been on a lot of different things. We watched the flight attendant. She was in that show. Yeah. >> Will: we did watch the flight attendant. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, but you're right. >> Sarah : That is, Sorry. I'm just gonna put this out there. This is funny. 2017, there was a little show called the Punisher. She played Farah Madani. >> Will: Huh? >> Sarah : Oh, yeah. Now, that's where I know her from, Madani. I think she was, like, a police officer or something.

43:20 >> Will: Okay. >> Sarah : Yeah. >> Will: And I know it from Star Trek. That's where I remember from. You're right. I completely remember from Star Trek beyond the last movie in the, Kelvin universe. So, yeah, but but, you know, but you're right, though. It was smarter than m to put the Maronis on the back burner this episode. >> Will: Because we. You know, the only place where I feel like the episode kind of did drag a little bit was maybe when they were doing the whole drug trade thing in the. In the club. As far as what. Yeah, you know, that, Yeah, we had to do that to sort of establish the triads and, you know, get the, you know, get the distributors and all that kind of stuff set up. But, really, the thing that stands out for me with that is just like, as we discussed earlier, Vic's panic attack, you know, in the context of the larger a story. And also, you know, him adapting, whenever the, cop showed up. but the rest of it, as far as the bliss and the drugs and stuff, you know, you know, we'll, you know, it definitely needed to be set up. So we'll see how all that unfolds, throughout the rest of the season beyond the drops, you know, with all these fake drugs that they come up with in the DC universe. I mean, bliss sounds like something we may have heard about in titans first, for all I know.

44:31 >> Sarah : I. So we find out it comes from Arkham and it was used on the patients and, ah, I like how little, ah, Miss Sophia is being very quiet about the exact effects of it. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : because everyone else is like, it's party job. And see, even though the scene went on long and. Yeah, towards the end, we get Vic's panic attack. I thought the overall scene in orchestra. Orchestration. Yeah, it brought in the triad and added that extra element because there's a lot of families in Gotham who are fighting over power. But it also emphasize reemphasized more the power struggle occurring between Oz and Sophia.

45:16 >> Will: Yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : Like, I think they did a good job is that, yeah, these two are aligned, but they are very. On very shaky terms, especially because, like, both of them can never be. Like, both of them can't share. We're bossed together like, they're not partners. And Sophia makes that very clear. And then I think that her speech and her ability to sell the drug, she did a very good job because we get the cold open from Vic's perspective of the downfall of Crowns point and the devastation and fast forward, that's why any of these drugs will work in Gotham, because there's so much devastation. People need an escape from it. So it's leeching onto that vulnerability, which is a very illness thing to do. So it went on a bit long, but I still think that it.

46:22 It served a lot of different purposes. >> Will: It did. It did. You're right. I mean, it was. It wasn't. Yeah. And when I say, yeah, I don't want to dig. I mean, it wasn't that. It was a waste, wasted scenes. I mean, everything in this show has a meaning to the larger. The larger tapestry that they're painting here. but you're right. I mean, that was, especially, like, when she talked about, you know, the crime boss for the triad, his background, and all, and knowing deeper. And then one thing, too, that came out. I can't remember when she and Oz. I did want to ask you what you thought about this when she said this is that. That she's not the hangman. And what do you think she was getting at there?

47:11 >> Sarah : I think she said, yeah, That was this episode. >> Will: Yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : When, >> Sarah : I also need to know what he said at first. >> Will: Yeah, I can't remember. It wasn't. I think. Was it right before they were going to find out that with the mushrooms. I can't remember when it was. I just. I do remember that coming up, and I was just trying to remember. Or was it whenever they were. When she dismissed Vic from, not being a driver that night? Wait a bit. Very beginning. But, I mean, I did. Yeah. I think that was as they were trying to build their alliance and the shaky trust that they have with one another.

47:54 >> Sarah : Yeah, I know. I know vaguely the line you're referring to, but without the context, I can't really have a lot to go on. >> Will: Yeah, that's right. That's fair. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so before we leave, I just want to ask you. So, because you keep bringing up Colin Farrell, Emmy season next year, you got Colin Farrell for this, and then you got Pedro Pascal for last of us season two. Yeah, but don't worry. They're gonna make Pedro be supporting actor. >> Will: Yeah. They'll make him be supporting actor again, for sure.

48:35 >> Sarah : So that. To guarantee that he's able to walk away with something. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Like, m my God. But I've been thinking this whole time, I'm like, wait. Wait a second. Are they both gonna be nominated simultaneously? And then what do you do? >> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, hP. HBO has got to make a choice. >> Sarah : Well, no, it would make sense for Pedro. Joel is technically. He's not the lead. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Like, it's. It's bellows show, but it's, But he, Yeah. Anyway. >> Will: Yeah, but damn it, if he doesn't get nominated, and they scrub. They snub him like they did Patty Costa. Don. We riot. That's all I gotta say.

49:23 >> Sarah : This is just so many riots happening in the world these days. So, so many riots. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : All right. >> Will: Yeah, one. I do have one last thing, too, because I saw this, like, picking or kicking around. And I, don't know if you. If you. If you've heard this theory, spiral as well. that Victor, since this was Victor's episode, closed with this, any chance you think he is going to end up being Victor size, the serial killer? as far as part of Batman scout road gallery. >> Sarah : So I will be honest, because there was this little show called Gotham back in the day. I don't know if you remember that. Hot, paws of a trash fire. >> Will: Yep. >> Sarah : and actually, I think went on for five or six seasons. Crazy.

50:05 >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Yeah. So, But there was a character called Victor Zas. Mister Zaz. So I. So I kid you not. The first episode, as soon as he said his name was Victor, I'm thinking to myself, oh, so I wonder if this is going to turn into, like, that other Victor that I vaguely remember. So, yeah, I can totally see that happening. I mean, that. That allows you to see an arc of an evolution. I mean, I. People keep referencing Breaking Bad when they do comparisons to the show and how, especially this episode, you got, Walt and Jesse and Vicki and Jesse. But I think. I think if anything, Vic is waltzed. Because Vic, there was a chance, but the moment his family was all stripped from him like that, from literally having nothing. And then to encounter someone who's like, you want something, I can help you get what you want.

51:19 Like, it's just this. This weird, mentorship that's occurring. So I don't know. I, think serial killer would take it a bit far, but I don't think it's. I don't think it's an accident when. When you have a character, like, when you're in Gotham, and people are named certain things, you know. >> Will: Fair enough. Yep. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, all right. will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you? >> Will: Yes, you can find me on X, formally known as Twitter, at will m. Polk. W I l l m, Polk.

52:01 >> Sarah : And you can find me there, too, at Sj Belmont sjblmt. Please follow our crew on Twitter at seenand Nerd. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at scene underscore n Nerd. And visit our website, www. Dot w senanerdpodcast.com. but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.