Agatha All Along and The Penguin: How Two Spinoffs Enhance Their Universes!

0:10 >> Sarah : Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as always, is our mister producer, will polk. How are you doing tonight, will? >> Will: Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing this evening? >> Sarah : I'm good. I mean, September 24, 2024. >> Will: Yes, yes, we. Yes, we have back with, like, two concurrent comic book shows going, which has been a while since we've had to, like, jug, you know, talk about two shows at once. I guess it's been since the summer. >> Sarah : like. Yeah, I mean, we were juggling through the end of, technically, through the end of July. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : I guess I'll start too long, but, yeah, yeah, it's definitely been a while since we've really been in this genre.

0:56 >> Will: Yeah, yeah, I know. We had Supacell, which, folks, you check that out. We finished, that last week. And, yeah, we're moving now to Agatha and, the penguin. >> Sarah : The penguin, yeah, but before that, so you just committed a sin where we had the pre show, and you did not ask me if I've watched this trailer. And as soon as I opened up the dock, I told myself, shit, I was supposed to watch that this morning. I didn't. >> Will: Okay. Yeah, well, it's fine. It's fine. >> Sarah : I did watch the May 2025. So in my defense, between now and then, I will have eventually watched one of the Thunderbolts trailers. I'm sure it's great. I'm sure it gives away the whole movie, but it's also out enough where. Yeah, go ahead.

1:52 >> Will: Yeah, actually, it didn't give away the movie, which was a pleasant surprise. yeah, I mean, this, Yeah, the Thunderbolts trailer did drop yesterday morning. I didn't. I did not know it was coming, but it did. And, it's funny hearing all our YouTube reactors complaining, about how Marvel was, like, putting copyright blocks on reaction videos. But, so I'm gonna be very careful and not put anything in here that will get our content blocked by. By Marvel. But, yeah, it was. It was. It was a good trailer, I guess. I know you haven't watched it. you know, it does have the thunderbolts, asterisks, you know, have Yelena, all the, Sergey. All the characters are showing up Bucky's back. we do learn that bucky, like, watches his, arm and the dishwasher, which was, like, when I did see that part in the trailer, I was like, oh, okay. Question answered. But, yeah, you know, it really. It just sort of did a job of just setting up our characters and reintroducing all the various, people that. That, Valentina has, been recruiting throughout, some of the previous iteration Marvel movies and tv shows and, you know, sort of sets that up and.

3:08 Yeah. I thought actually, I did have to say that when I watched the trailer, I was just like, okay, I feel this. You know, I had good. I had good. I had good vibes from it. as far as feeling like Marvel's definitely doing the course correction thing. And, and then, of course, with the whole, you know, the whole title of thunderbolts, asterisks, you know, I guess there's a lot of theories following out there already going on whether or not it's the dark Avengers or Secret Avengers is what that asterisk means. But, we'll love to hear from our listeners. Your thoughts are on. On the asterisks with the, thunderbolts title. But, and, yeah, this is coming next May.

3:48 >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, but just. Just theory spiral, guys. We don't want to write the movie before we've Scene the movie. Only then to get disappointed by what they actually do in the movie. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah, I just. >> Sarah : I caution people these days because we've Scene what has happened as this genre and especially as both DC and Marvel has rose to popularity. And it's just like a lot of people have taken the joy out of theory spiraling because then you're just witnessing and a part of rewriting a story that you haven't even already Scene.

4:32 >> Will: Yeah, you have your head. Yeah, it's like, you have your head canon and your head cannon doesn't play out because Mephisto didn't show up, speaking of Agatha. And then you're, like, pissed off because your head cannon didn't come into reality, so that's not going to happen. >> Sarah : Yeah. and then in other news, Kyle Chandler from Friday night lights is in talks to play. Oh, I thought he was casted. >> Will: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so, yeah, so this is. >> Sarah : Cast to play how? How? Jordan and Lantern series. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, DC news. yeah, so Josh Brolin, of course, was in talks earlier, and then he. He declined to the role.

5:14 But, yeah, depending on what source you looked at. I mean, the Hollywood Reporter wrote it. Like, he's been cast, but I know variety and deadline, at least initially, still had capstan in terms of talks in their reporting yesterday, but, but, yeah, Kyle Chandler, who many people definitely will remember him from Friday, night lights, has been cast as Hal Jordan and, in the new Lantern series. And, we're still looking for our new Jon Stewart. But, we do have Hal. And, Yeah, I didn't realize this until yesterday, actually, when I was reading about Cal Chandler being cast, that, Chris Mundy, who was the showrunner for Ozark, is actually one of the showrunners for this show. I mean, I knew Damon Lindelof and Tom King were a part of the show, but, I did. I did not know that the, create one of the creator creative teams behind those arc was a part of it until now.

6:08 >> Sarah : Did you, watch Friday Night lights? >> Will: I watched some episodes, yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : You mean some episodes. I wasn't like Michael B. Jordan era. >> Will: Oh, gosh. I mean, I may watch maybe three or four episodes, Max. >> Sarah : Oh, my God. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Okay. >> Will: I mean, I wasn't like. It wasn't like my. I wasn't like a big watcher of it, but I did. But what I did watch of. Of it. And what I do know of Cal Chandler as an actor, I mean, I think this is a great choice for Hal Jordan. >> Sarah : Oh, yeah. Yeah. As soon as I saw it, I was like, I accept. but, because I. I fell off right around the time when clearly all of the kids had grown up. They did some recasting and some stuff, and then I kind of circled back around just to watch, like, the final few episodes.

7:05 so I'm all too familiar with Kyle Chandler. and like I said, I think this is pretty good casting for what has been. I've heard about what the. They're trying to do with this. and. And, yeah, yeah. So it's. It's good news. No, because I know how badly will wants to talk the penguin, so. >> Will: No, let's start with. Let's start with Agatha. Let's state, you know, we had it. We had it. We had Marvel, DC. So now let's go back to Marvel. Well, we had Marvel. We had marvel news first with thunderbolts. Then we had DC News with the lanterns. And now let's go back to Marvel. >> Sarah : So Agatha along started. What did you think about the first step?

7:46 >> Will: I like that. I liked it. I mean, it was, I did not know what to really expect with this show. And, so when it started out and I saw where they were going, again with a very similar vibe that they. And theme that they went with, with, wandaVision, you know, just picking up the genre motif, in this case, it was, you know, I guess a sort of play on the >> Sarah : Mayor, >> Will: Of Eastwick, or, the one that, Oh, gosh, what's. What's her name? blanket on actress's name. But. But I just wanted to say it's an HBO show, but, I saw where they were, where they were going with that and, you know, with the true crime kind of theme.

8:27 And, yeah, it was, I was like, okay, you know, I was sort of getting me back into this world, getting familiar with Agnes, as she was known, you know, in Wandavision before she was revealed. And, yeah, you know, I thought the first episode, what did, what it needed to do, which was. And actually both episodes, both one and two were really. It was smart of them to release them together because they really were a lot of setup. >> Sarah : Yeah. Speaking about true crime, I did start to watch the monsters. M. Yeah, the, the, Ryan Murphy show about Mendoz brothers. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

9:08 >> Sarah : I'm pretty sure it's called. No, it's just monsters. It's not the monsters, it's just monsters. Ryan, correct me if I'm wrong, Ryan Murphy was also somewhat behind the people versus OJ. Right? >> Will: Yeah, he was. People Doctor OJ, the people. Andrew Kurnanen. Yeah, all those. Yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : He's never going to recapture the people versus OJ. I'm sorry. I mean, I think I haven't watched it, but we've already talked about this. I know people really, quote unquote, however you want to put it, enjoyed Dahmer. But I just, I. This, I just don't think it's ever going to be like that was so, firing on all cylinders. And there was so much nuance and there were so many different characters and angles at play, that I can see remnants of it, but it's a different story. And it just. That style and the way they did the people versus OJ worked because of the story itself, where I think sometimes they're trying to shove that style into a story where it's like, well, part of it works and then part of it doesn't.

10:33 Because, I mean, I don't really. This, When did the murders occurred? Was it Inez or was it in the eighties? >> Will: I want to say it was like the. The Menendez brothers. I want to say it was like the late eighties, early nineties. >> Sarah : Okay, that to me, for some reason, at first I read 97 and I was like, okay, so I was alive. But now we've confirmed I wasn't really alive during that time. So that's why I've never really heard about this story. and that being said, yeah, they.

11:14 >> Will: Were convicted in 1996. >> Sarah : Okay. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : So it was a long. And I. And I. And I get why. I guess I don't want to linger too much on this, but where I was going with it is I don't. I don't know how much is true and how much is disbelief. I just. I'm at episode five, and I've already Scene and heard people, like, insinuate some stuff that happens in episode five. I'm really contemplating skipping it, because I've already been through episode four, and they were just talking about the potential or the claims of the child sexual abuse.

12:02 And, like, I'm like, okay, can it. If it's gonna get more graphic, then I'm not here for this. I can't. I can't. And I don't know. I just. Ryan Murphy. I don't know. It's so much style that I'm missing the substance, but. Yeah, but the actors are doing a good job. overall, I just. I think the way they're telling this, it's, It's not as riveting as, the people versus OJ. >> Will: So. Yeah, yeah, I want to check that one out. Also want to check out the, I know they have the, Aaron Hernandez story. believe that one's on FX, if I recall.

12:47 >> Sarah : Yeah, anytime a show is on FX, I'm like, thank God it's on Hulu. Yeah. Yeah, I've been. I keep seeing things because I also feel. I'm also pretty sure Netflix released a documentary same time as that. And I'm like, well, Jason Scott Peterson all over again, where you got two dueling documentaries. What the heck? >> Will: Yeah, I mean, we got all these true crime things going right now. >> Sarah : Yeah, the viewer. I mean, for. For the last decade or so, we've Scene a high rise and people really enjoying true crime. So, I mean, to circle back to Agatha, I agree with you. I think that was a smart device to use, because, it's not too jarring for the viewer, considering if you really make the connection. Okay, this is a spin off of WandaVision. Remember that? But I will admit, I don't know what I was thinking during the first 20 minutes of this, but I was just like, I could not really remember exactly what happened to Agatha. at the end of WandaVision sense, like, there was this. I was like, well, I know Wanda eventually puts everything back in normal, but why are we still doing this tv motif?

14:16 I mean, she. And for some reason, it didn't really connect to me. Like, I'm like, oh, wait. She lost her powers. She got trapped. It took me a while. I wouldn't say the whole first episode. No. Probably a good 2020 minutes to realize, >> Will: I was there too. I had that same feeling. I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, that's right. She won. You know, Wanda did take her powers away. And the, you know, because I guess the thing about the end of WandaVision, you know, it's everything leading up to that finale was just so, you know, it really built up to such a great story. And then the finale was your typical marvel, you know, green screen fighting in the sky, but, you know, and stuff. So I had forgotten that, you know, I remember she had.

15:10 So. Yeah, like. Like you. It's like, oh, yeah, that's right. Moana did cast spell, take her powers away, and then. But, But beyond that, I did not know. >> Sarah : Entrapped her. In Westview. >> Will: Yeah. In Westview. >> Sarah : Yeah. Spell. To trap her and make her, quote unquote, forget. >> Will: Right. >> Sarah : and we're immediately after being introduced to Audrey Plaza's, character. We are, starting to see the cracks now. Okay, I don't. My one gripe is the typical, I'm about to kill you. Oh, wait, let me give you time to talk yourself out of it, and then we're gonna have a season. It's just, I really didn't like that.

16:03 also, I was thinking pretty much the whole time that just questioning. Questioning, more or less. Audrey Palazzo's character is agent Vidal, or just Vidal, because she's a witch of some sort, and she clearly has a vendetta against Agatha and wants to kill her, only to be talked out of it because. And Agatha makes a strong point, like, it's not just killing me. It's also, like, taking me down when I'm at my strongest, not when I'm at my weakest. And so then, Vidal just decides that, okay, I'm gonna let the Salem seven come and kill you, which sets us up for the next episode. But I just.

16:51 If that was her plan the whole time, she certainly wasted a little bit of time because she just allowed, like, it kind of felt as though in some moments, she was trying to get Agatha to snap out of it and helping her. So. And I don't know why. >> Will: Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's, you know, clearly, whenever Agent Vidal was, like, trying to. To help her there. I mean, there's. There's a deep, obviously, a deeper story there, and I don't know. And it was obviously, there was clearly that the sexual tension between the two of them, as well as far as just the flirting and, you know, so there was that history. but, you know, but as we. As we see in the second episode, Agatha has a history of sapping people's powers. So, I don't know if that happened with them in the past and that's part of the vendetta or. Obviously, we'll get more about.

17:56 >> Sarah : Well, I understand that they clearly know each other. I didn't pick up on any flirting, but that's besides the per point. but, oh, questioning. Like, why did it seem like she was helping her when. When she. She ultimately wanted to? Like, I just. I don't know. It was. >> Will: I mean, unless it has something to tie. Unless it ties back to Wanda. I mean, maybe that was white, you know? Well, I think there was two things. One, I think she was trying to help her, because I think she was trying to figure out what happened to the Darkhold, because as Agatha, was. Was. As Agatha was, you know, looking at the library card, and she was.

18:43 >> Sarah : Tell her what happened to the. Agatha didn't tell her what happened to the Darkhold. >> Will: No, I think. No, I think she. I think Agent Vidal was trying to figure out. I mean, I think part of the thing that she was. Part of why she was trying to help Agatha along was because she. She suspects that Agatha had something to do with the dark hole going missing. So I think that was part of why she was trying to help her, especially as Agatha was piecing together the clues on the legal pad. And, you know, and she, you know, she started writing it out. So I think that was, ah, I think that was part of what she was. What was part of her mission there, as far as, you know, trying to give her breadcrumbs to tease those things out, help her regain her memory.

19:31 >> Sarah : Okay. I mean, yeah, that could be the case. and then we get a teen. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Hey, that is how he's credited in IMDb for a while, I was calling him the child. He's clearly the teenage, played by Jode Locke, who we meet stealing something from Agatha's house. And then Agatha takes him down to the, be interrogated. And, it's pretty clear within five minutes that he's a witch. And so initially, it's kind of like, well, is he working with Vidal? No, he's actually on a separate mission and is actually a fanboy Vegas of some sort.

20:21 >> Will: Yep. >> Sarah : and. And. And then she inadvertently kidnaps him. Inadvertently. Yep. Yep. Kidnaps him. and we find out more about him in the second episode, because he has a plan where he wants to find the road, which the road leads to great power. and so he convinces Agatha, who has actually done that before, to take him there. but first they need to find a coven. And so we're introduced to a few characters and reintroduced to, the neighbor, who. I don't know her first name, but it's just heart.

21:12 >> Will: misses Hart. >> Sarah : Yeah, misses Hart, who's just great. So, like, that really, picked up. That was a really good choice. I loved her going to the party. And then as they're doing the seance, just looking around like, oh, everyone knows this song. I don't know. >> Will: I love you. They're like lip syncing. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. And then every now and then you see out of the corner of the screen, like, her head, like, bobbling along and getting really. It's just plastic. but what are your thoughts about the kid, the teen and, who he is? Because we learn in this episode that anytime he tries to tell Agatha his name or who he is in any sense of the word, she suddenly cannot hear.

22:11 >> Will: Yeah. So. I know. I think he. I think he's Wiccan. >> Sarah : that is. I don't know who that is. >> Will: He's. He's one. I think he's, if I recall, want to say he's one of Wanda's kids that was created in the magic and, you know, and in the comics. I can't remember all his history, but, But I believe it is one of Wanda's sons. And so that's part of the reason why he. Part of the spell, I guess, is that, you know, Agatha can't understand what he. Who he is. So, So that's, you know, part of the. Part of the mystery that we'll have throughout the season. >> Sarah : Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking the whole time that I feel like at one point people were talking about Agatha or not Agatha, but Wanda's kids being involved in this show to an extent.

23:05 so that would make sense. and seems like probably the highest probability that that's what's going on. what else? Anything else you want to talk about? episode two. I mean, the covenants form and then we see the road at the end. >> Will: Yeah. I mean, no, I think this, like I said, this is the beginning. I mean, these two episodes really were, like, set up for, you know, for the show. It was smart to drop them together because if. I think if we had had them a week apart, you, know, I don't think they would have flowed as well. But having them back to back like this, you know, did. Did lend. Lend itself to, I think, a very solid start to this show.

23:54 and I enjoyed it. I really did, because, like I said, I didn't know really what to expect. and, you know, and as far as the. As far as the witches singing their song and stuff in the show, it definitely worked better than it did in the acolyte. but, But, yeah, I'm very curious to see where the series progresses. >> Sarah : Yeah, I think overall, I mean, it's been two plus years since we've Scene WandaVision. And so it did a very good and smart job of bringing us back to Westview, like, reminding us about what happened every time Agatha, interacted with her neighbors.

24:46 And I like how Wanda suddenly in Westview has become, she who shall not be named. The PTSD is still there, which is still fascinating. Oh, just a shout out to Kathryn hahn for, and Disney plus, man, she was. She was nude. he didn't see anything. Very careful angles, but clearly nude. >> Will: Yeah. So I think we did see some. I think we did see her, but. But that was about it. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I'm just. I'm just like, you know what? You go. You. You go. Because I really. I think this. It. These episodes also did a good job of why they wanted to give Katherine more time to shine, through this, because she really holds her own and holds the show throughout these two episodes, arguably throughout, like, I don't know. I'm glad we get two episodes, but I could have probably done a week in between, and it been fine, too.

25:54 But that's just because I think the first episode was stronger than the second episode. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I went back and forth, but at the end of the day, I did feel like the first one was stronger than the second. Yeah. >> Will: but to your point, too, about giving Kathryn hahn the shine. Opportunity to shine, I think the other thing that they. That. That allowed her to Agnes and as a character to Shun was we really got to get introduced to more of Agnes as an individual instead of just the. Instead of just the, nosy neighbor that she was in WandaVision, they started to flesh her out more, I think, in these two episodes.

26:38 >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't remember her being the nosy neighbor. I remember her being the wicked witch from the west. >> Will: Or, I mean. Yeah, well, that's. That's what we got at the end. But, I mean, building up to that point before the Bill. >> Sarah : Right. I completely understand why you said that. and it just reminds me of the scene where she's peeling off those layers of all those different characters. because they did go through the decades of television. which, again, is maybe another reason why they presented Agnes where she was. Because it did look like something that would air on HBO right now. I, mean, true crime aside, it's just what the whole premise of that show and what, people are watching these days. So overall, it's very good. Three years clearly has passed. and I like the fact that, it's not just that we have two comic book shows, to talk about, but two spinoffs. And, they both played it very smart, but in different ways. Because while it's been three years since we've Scene Wandavision and in this world of Westview, it's been three years in the penguin, it's very clear that it's what.

28:09 It's been a week. >> Will: Two years. Two years in real time since the movie the Batman. Because it was, And then. Yeah. And then one week from the events of the Batman. And they did a smart job. I mean, what I really like, to your point about how they took different approaches, one of the one. One element of that to me was if you never. If you didn't watch the Batman, they did a great job of summing up, really, the key moments and of the end of that movie, in the first few minutes of the penguin. And also just for us, as view as me, because I haven't watched. I haven't watched Batman in a while.

28:52 So it reminded me of, like. I mean, I remember the flood and all that stuff, but, you know, I have forgotten it was a realtor to set it off, the bombs and stuff. So it was like, I forgot that I did. I really did. It's been a long time. Like I said, I think I've only watched a Batman once in the theater, maybe once afterwards. And I haven't watched it since. >> Sarah : I've only watched it once in theaters. Yeah, but I remember that. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : Critical point. I didn't. I mean, yeah, I remember. Memory is a weird thing because I feel as though, in this first episode, after hours, they did a good job of, very quickly, as you put it, reminding m jogging your memory of the critical events. And I would also say the critical events pertaining to how, do you set up a series of our show season involving the penguin. So it's like things that happened at the end of the Batman that really will impact the penguin and the world he's living in.

30:01 and so it's been a week since the death of Carmine Falcone. And, this leads to a conversation, ah, between Al and Penguin. But before we get into the events of this episode, will, why don't you just share your overall thoughts, overall. >> Will: Faults, as I touched on it earlier? Definitely, think it did a good job of just. And really to piggyback on your thought. It really harnessed why we should care about this character and his backstory and why he was so interesting. you know, because I did. You know, I was listening to the. The official podcast of. Of the penguin, and they. They noted that Oz only had six scenes in the movie.

30:57 and. And so he. With the way they framed this show and what happened, you know, and then to your point, how now, because of Carmine being gone, the power vacuum opening up, it opens the door to, like, really giving us an exploration of this character, and especially whenever we first, you know, whenever we get those early, intense minutes with that conversation between him and Al. So I really just, really just enjoyed. Just from the minute I was just. From the get, I was just engrossed into this world again. And, also just the groundedness of it. I mean, just seeing things like the FEMA, you know, just seeing, like the FEMA disaster recovery, centers and stuff, it just, you know, yes, this, you know, yes, this is a comic book world that we're in, but it really not only did it set up the, penguin as a character, but it just reminded us as Gotham as a character as well. And it really just a very grounded world that we're living in, in this iteration of the bat universe.

32:13 >> Sarah : Yeah, I would agree that, this first episode, it was pretty a. It was captivating just because of Colin Farrell's performance. yeah, we. I mean, put aside makeup and all of that, just his mannerisms, and he owns the entire episode. this is the penguin, and we literally follow him throughout the entire episode, which is so. Such a, You would think that would be such a more common thing, but it's really nothing because especially in this day and age, where we have. We have way more ensembles. This really isn't an ensemble. Okay. I would.

32:59 I would argue, ah, based solely on the first episode, this is not an ensemble. This is Colin Farrell owning. Just. Just because I would also say his performance and what he's able to bring out of his fellow actors and actresses lifts up the story itself, because, I mean, we've all Scene this before. it definitely plays homage to. And somebody said breaking bad. No, no, no. This isn't Breaking Bad, okay? Breaking Bad is watching a good person slowly, over time, become evil. This is an homage to classic gangster movies and tv. Like, it's you. I mean, from the opening scene where he talks about what power is, we've heard people, we've heard mobsters talk like, characters say that, and you're like, yes. I mean, this is godfather.

34:17 Come on. >> Will: Exactly. >> Sarah : And I think because they did that in such a. Because between that and just his performance, that's where the nuance was, that I was hoping for. Now, I wish some other things could be a bit more nuanced, but we'll get there. so overall, I was really satisfied with this episode. and I'm curious about the next one. And just to see where things are going to go, and just to really, just watch Colin Farrell earn his first, Emmy. So.

35:03 >> Will: Yeah, for sure. For sure. >> Sarah : I mean, he's gotta at least be nominated. >> Will: He's gotta be nominated. >> Sarah : Do not pull a viserys. Okay. I'm still. That's why we could care less about the Emmys these days, because Viserys got robbed. Patty was robbed. I don't understand that. Oh, my God. so this power vacuum, which is interesting because I was like, okay, yeah, we have a mobster kingpin die at the end of the Batman. And so, of course, now everybody's like a power vacuum. It's interesting how it didn't feel like a power vacuum in this episode.

35:44 No, because you're literally watching Oz make a decision. And, purely. And you knew it the moment Al laughed. You're like, oh, you're dead. you're dead. It's a weird thing because, to an extent, some of us viewers already know this character. So we already have this idea of, like, if Oz had not shot Al, we would probably be like, okay, what are they doing with the penguin? Like, this isn't the penguin we know. Like, no. Yeah, but he does. And then the whole episode is, how do you find your way out of this? Because, you know.

36:32 And so we're watching that chess. I don't know if it's chess, because I don't really know who, to an extent, but we're just watching him scramble and come up with a plan and, And being able to maneuver himself out of, being caught in this situation, which I personally thought the ring was gonna do it, but they did a smart thing with that. >> Will: They did. They did. Yeah. I mean, I think to your. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing. It's like, because as soon as I poke fun of him, and, you know, he and Oz reacted instinctively. And I think.

37:13 And I think that's, you know, you're right. I mean, you know, because the penguin is such a well established character, you know, we know what. We know where the. We know what the what. We know the end game as far as the story. Whenever once Penguin is the character, we know. But this is like, how do we get to that place? It's sort of like, even like, with the. Like with the Batman, you know, the movie itself was like, you know, it's like, I guess year two of Bruce's journey as the Batman. And so we know we had a very emo Batman. He's not like, he's still refining becoming the world's greatest detective. And so in this show, we're seeing how penguin becomes the mass, you know, the boss of Gotham's underworld in this show.

37:59 And you're right. I mean, how they just sort of structured that at the outset, right out. Right out of the gate, there was. They're like, we're going to jump right into this story, you know, so that, you know, Aldouse, you know, poor Joel measles was gone in the first, you know, ten minutes or whatever. >> Sarah : It took me a while to figure out, like, I know that face, I know that voice. what do you think of Victor? >> Will: So, Victor, you know, I've Scene this out there, and I agree. This is penguins version of his robin. and so.

38:40 But sort of just how. Yeah, but, But, you know, but sort of how Victor falls into. Into this situation because, you know, big ones at the iceberg lounge and, you know, these kids are just, you know, again, taking advantage of the situation because, again, we're just a week from the. From the. From the flood. And. And so he's at the, you know, he's the true, proverbial wrong place at the wrong time. Yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : Did you recognize the actor? >> Will: I did not. >> Sarah : Okay. Did we talk about. Did we talk.

39:20 Did we watch and talk about the show the runaways? Do you remember that show? >> Will: I remember. I did not watch it. You did. >> Sarah : I did. >> Will: Yeah. >> Sarah : What? That doesn't seem right. >> Will: Yeah. Ah, you watched it. I think, with our. Yeah, with. I think you were. I think you watched it with, some other. I think, prior to me joining a podcast or came around the same or maybe about the same time, maybe around the same time. >> Sarah : Because it was from 2017 to 2019. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : Okay. Okay. Because he played a character on that. I just. I don't know. I could. I had to look at IMDb for it, but I was. I was watching, and I'm like, your face looks so familiar, I cannot put my finger on it. I just. I don't think, like, to go back to everything I was just saying about Carl and Farrell.

40:14 we don't know enough about Victor. We haven't seen enough from Victor. It was very clear that, okay, you need to establish someone who is able, like Colin Farrell or Oz can talk to throughout this episode. So we just don't get 20 minutes of him staring off into the distance, clearly thinking, yeah, so why not? And, yeah, like Robin, I even put that in my notes, but also just someone who. It makes sense.

40:55 And you understand why. I mean, you understand why. Just not necessarily. I think more so from your. Your basic understanding of who penguin is then, than anything else. So I think the actor, is hopefully going to learn a lot from Colin. and I'm just. I'm interested to see if, they're able, first of all, if he'll survive this season. >> Will: Yeah, that was about to say. Because, I mean, every moment, I mean, I will say as far as the, actor who plays Victor, his portrayal, he brought the right element of fear of, like, is this going to be the moment? You know, like, I think about the. The moment when Erin, the. In the, you know, when. When Oz tells him, look at the sunrise and, you know, is this the moment that he gets, you know, they caps this kid.

41:55 >> Sarah : He was going to live the whole time. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, but. But I think the point. But I know it's going to your. You're right. I mean, Oz needed that. That. That person to play off of. >> Sarah : Yeah, but. >> Will: But I think they still did a good job of keeping the tension there throughout the episode of is this kid going to make it or not? At least for me it did. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah, it didn't for me. I. In a weird way, as soon as Al Diesen, I didn't really have too much tension going on in this show. I just. I mean, this is the first episode, so I'm like, I don't know. There. There wasn't a whole lot of stakes. It was fascinating watching, figuring out the plan and seeing the plan, but tension, I don't. I didn't really have a sense of tension, even though there was, like two scene fight sequences and all of that stuff.

43:00 But, But, yeah, I didn't. I didn't really get a lot of tension. even. Even with Sophia. yeah. And. And so writing wise, I'm. I'm very interested for them to flesh out more of that what happened. because we know. We learn that she is freshly released from Arkham. Penguin did not know. We also learn that Penguin clearly had something to do with her being sent to Arkham, and she knows it.

43:41 And there's somewhat. I don't know. I see, I sensed a. Not flirting, but a little bit of like, okay, we used to hook up at one point, so I don't. I don't know. And there's also, She quickly figures out, that he somewhat is involved with the disappearance of her brother. And, because he uses a. This idea of this new drug that al told him about, and as his bargaining chip to retain his block, I don't know what they called it.

44:31 To retain that. Retain that. so. And I do. I do appreciate that they, they bring out a sophia and she appears to be formidable. I will say something. I was not overly impressed with this actress. I've Scene her in other things, but the way, I just thought it was one note the entire time. >> Will: Yeah, yeah. >> Sarah : I'm like, you're okay. You're getting a lot of screen time, and I'm seeing the same person. Like, there, there wasn't. It was. It's just like, let me just stare. Like, did I stare at you?

45:12 And kind of mumble, but also just talk, really. I don't know. like, I get what she was doing, but it also felt one out to me. >> Will: Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, it was. I mean, I thought she. It was good. I mean, she did a great job, but it was. But it was very one dimensional at this point. Like, you know, I'm the hangman. I'm just out of Arkham. And, and, I know whenever they had the torture scene there with, with Oz, you know, she did get a little bit more menacing. but, yeah, the scene at a restaurant, whenever they were. Whenever she was sorting out what and reading between the lines of figuring out that he was.

45:58 He did have something to do with Al's disappearance. >> Will: yeah, I mean, I think one of the most things I got conveyed from that, from that scene was just the history. And also I was thinking, oh, we're going to get some. We're going to get some. We're going to get some flashbacks with, with the two of them and probably Carmine as well, just to sort of flesh out what that history is there. >> Sarah : Well, we'll see. We'll see. I. In a way, I hope we don't have. Yeah, I just, I I don't know. The flashbacks, they can be an easy crutch. >> Will: Yeah, well, I know John tutorials play, you know, he's stepping in for, who played, who played Carmine in the movie. I can't remember who, but he. But Carmine is going to show up in the series at some point.

46:47 >> Sarah : Great. Well, I. >> Will: Maybe. Or maybe, or maybe it'll just be with. With Sal Maroni and Carmine. >> Sarah : I was going to say, like, I mean, I would be okay, more so with flashbacks about those two and. And what happened there and how, how, Carmine even got a hold of Sal's ring. That is a very, important piece, that gets moved around from Al to Oz and then ultimately to Sal in the end, who's in prison. Also, did we know that Sal was gonna be, played by Clancy Brown? >> Will: no, I didn't know that. Yeah. >> Sarah : First of all, love it. And also love the fact that I did not know.

47:30 >> Will: Same here. I was like, oh, when he showed up, I was like, oh, all right. >> Sarah : No, I, Thank you. It's a welcome surprise. Very, very good. And I also appreciate that he immediately is like penguin. You're full of shit. only for them, then for Oz to use the ring, which, I mean, that ring, the whole time, I was like, dude, you brought it back to your house, you put it in your nightstand. They're gonna find that, like, three episodes later. So I'm glad that they were very aware of that and managed to use that to help further convince Sal, to. Or not even convince them, but more to, realign to make a new alliance. So at the end of the day, Penguin comes out clean, no matter which side, and ultimately, starts the mob war again between these two rivalry families.

48:37 >> Will: Yep. >> Sarah : so. So, yeah. And at the end of it, it's just oz and Vic enjoying some mixed flavored, slush puppies. >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. And Dolly Parton, nine to five. I love that. That was just like, whatever that indian Alice is like. Yeah, I. That was. I was like, yeah, I am in for the ride. And also, too, I know we hadn't talked about Oz and his relationship with his mother and, you know, I guess with her dementia and stuff, but, you know, there's, again, just, you know, how, how all, you know, the fact that he went by there during the episode, seeing the relationship that he has with her, they went in a direction with it that I wasn't anticipating. So I was like, So, yeah, so, you know, again, huh?

49:28 >> Sarah : How so? You said that it went in a direction you weren't anticipating. How so? >> Will: He. He. It was almost. It was a, He was a very caretaker esque role of it where he wanted to make sure she had. She had what she needed and making sure that she was safe. instead. Instead of it being a jacked up kind of relationship between the two of them, even though. Yeah, so. >> Sarah : Right, right. Like, they presented initially that kind of dynamic and then they also, showed that she's, definitely his mom.

50:13 >> Will: Yeah. Yeah. >> Sarah : Really as well. And she. She probably passed down some traits that weren't the best, for sure. Like, I think they did a good job of showing both sides of that dynamic because what. What the writers are doing right now is carefully crafting a non, like, at the end of the day, this is penguin. This is his show. So he. Technically speaking. Technically speaking, is our hero. Want him to succeed even though he is a villain in the Batman universe. Like, so it's not anti hero, but it's also not. You can't.

51:05 You can't. We can't have someone be the focal point who has no sympathetic or empathetic qualities. I mean, and that's another reason why you have to have a character like Vic, who some. A kid who is like, doesn't know what to do, lost his home, clearly trying to get by and just needs a chance. Like, like, you. You can root for someone who's willing to take a. Someone like that on and help him out. So, so again, they're doing a very good job. And this all goes back to what I was saying before about the homages to, like, classic gangster mobsters movies. I mean, in real life, those are not the heroes, but for purposes of story, they make pretty interesting heroes in a weird way.

51:57 >> Will: Yeah. yeah, they do. I mean, why do you think Goodfellas and the good and the Sopranos and, you know, untouchables, all those films. I mean, why Al Capone is still such a cult hero today to this day. >> Sarah : Yeah. Yeah. Loyalty, family, all of that. So. So, yeah, I, I'm very satisfied with this start. overall, very well done. >> Will: Me too. >> Sarah : And. >> Will: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, because, like, to your point, you know, to make it, you know, he's not a hero. He's not anti hero, but also they're doing, they're paving, they're they're laying the groundwork to show why the Penguin is one of Batman's arch enemies, toughest enemies in his ropes gallery, too, especially with story with, like, how with, with the, using that ring, for example, and how he, you know, came up with the plan to get these families to fight again. It shows, like, it's just showing that. That, you know, where this guy is going and why Batman? Why he's such a formidable, formal enemy against Batman. For Batman.

53:10 >> Sarah : Right. Well, on that note, will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you? >> Will: Yes, you can find me on X, formally known as Twitter, at will impulp willmpolk. >> Sarah : And you can find me there, too, at SJ Belmont s j b e l m o n t m. Please follow our crew there at Scene a Nerd friend of said Facebook? Follow us on Instagram and threads at scene underscore n underscore Nerd and visit our website, www.sceneanerdpodcast.com. but most importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. Good night. Geek out. You're welcome.